Topic : 12/12 Convince Me!

When the show began, warning viewers of the images, I was no where prepared for the scenes of the homeless being tortured for entertainment. I was just reaching for my remote control to switch channels( a first during the Dr. Phil Show) when you stopped everything and threw the heartless, subhuman "man" out. Thank you so much for NOT give this person a forum to defend his morals....or lack there of......

 

As for the thin model story, of course our young girls look at these women and dream of looking just like them, and perhaps a more realistic portrayal of the "average" woman would help. I personally am a naturally very small woman...5' 4" 105 lbs, and have often been offended by strangers making rude comments about my size.  

 

    Sharon S

I'm not sure what this has to do with my post, but what you wrote is actually true.  Eating disorders are not, primarily, caused by observing thin people and trying to emulate them.  They are related to the issues you described (longing for acceptance and needing control).  I don't believe I had said in any of my posts that ultra-thin models are causing eating disorders among society in general (though clearly the fashion industry sometimes pushes it's models towards eating behavior that is characteristic of them - purging, laxatives, undereating and overexercising, etc.). 

 

The problem isn't that ultra-thin models cause girls to resort to anorexia.  It's that they cause them to internalize standards of beauty that are not healthy.  To make matters worse, our culture associates thinness with beauty and beauty with value. Thus, normal weight (not to mention overweight) girls and women are repeatedly bombarded with messages that they are "less than" in terms of worth.  If eating disorders were the direct result, we would have a tremendously underweight society.  We don't.  We have a significantly overweight society.  Why?  Because the result of internalizing those cultural messages is a loss of self-esteem, not necessarily loss of weight (although low self-esteem is certainly a factor in eating disorders as well). 

 

If our society is overweight, then some might argue that we should continue to esteem the very thin to encourage women to lose the excess pounds.  But, to paraphrase Dr. Phil, "How's that working for us?"  Obviously not well.  The extremely thin celebrities (models and other media personalitlies) are clearly not inspiring the general population to healthy weights.  Could it be that they're discouraging many from even trying to go from a chubby 14 to a healthy 10 because they'll never reach an ultra-thin 2?  

 i agree with most of what you said, but ...alot of times the shelters fill up quickly and there's people left with no place to go. In my town we're blessed to have a "regular homeless shelter" and a cold weather shelter. However, both have a limited capacity.

Also, in my state the state hospitals are turning out a lot of mentally ill people back into the community and are only keeping the "most severe". there are not enough group homes or even people to staff the homes there are (because they pay barely above minimum wage and work you to death)

I wish there was a simple cause to homelessness but unfortunately there's not and therefore no simple cure

To be honest, I've only met a few who were truely manipulating the system and even then I have to wonder if that's all they know to do.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now

I posted a reply.... I am soooo sorry if it did not get up on the board..... anyway... I checked it out... and if you buy some expensive software... that is about the only thing it had.... It is sooo strange... You would think Norwegian would be an easy language to find.... BUT... even the Rosetta Stone does NOT have Norwegian.... how strange is that??? LOL..... almost ALL Asian languages.. and Swahili.... BUT no Norwegian..... Go figure.... and to top it off... My fiance speaks Swedish and Dutch.. BUT NOT Norwegian....... I am gonna be in trouble... teeheeheeheehee.... I hope my daughter does Ok... I think because of her being 8 years old.... she is young enough to learn a language fast..., she will be fine .... I have been busy selling stuff on e-bay and craigs list....and packing... UUUggggg... We leave on Tuesday.... I am excited though... and REALLY I DO appreciate the help and the suggestions.... and if you run accross any more info I would LOVE all the input I can get..... So, REALLY thank you for being so thoughtful..... and if you want... you can e-mail me.. at my user name @hotmail....... and AGAIN.. Thank you....

Okay was this Drew guy seriously ticking anybody else off?  I wanted to reach into my TV and give his head a good shake!!  He could not answer any question directly and all he did was hide behind his "fashion industry" argument (which in my opinion, was extremely weak) instead of stepping up to the plate and admitting that yes, there are girls who desperately try to attain this make-belief image.  I think he needs to step out of the fashion industry for a second and study the subconscious mind.  Yes, i agree with him that girls should not look at fashion models as role models, but here's reality Drew: IT IS NOT A CONSCIOUS DECISION!!!  And yes it IS happening.  When every single image you see in magazines and other media is this stick thin girl, it would take a very very conscious effort to not think that this is the norm.  Especially among yound girls who spend their entire teenage years trying to figure out who they are and what they should be.  I totally agree with Dr. Phil when he says that is our responsibility as a society to watch what is put out there.  And yes Drew, it's not just in the fashion industry, it's in all media.  I completely agree, i think hollywood also needs some bans.  It may not be fair right now that it's only the fashion industry that is having restrictions put on it, but it's a start.

My family lives in a very small town away from any major hub-bub of fashion or the fast track life style.  Still I am concerned on how my daughters percieve what they see in the media.  Drew  wants to believe that when the public looks at fashion that we are just seeing the outside, the clothes, the makeup the hairstyles.  Inpart that is what we do look at whether we can afford that look or not, but what he is discounting is that the rest of the image is the human image, that whickhwe can relate to because we are human.  The models may be the 'vehicle' as to which the fashions are brought to us by, but it is the women that we see behind the image.  Most of us may not be able to afford or assertain the fashion, but we can strive to have that human look.  If the models are too thin, they still project that image-meaning to or not.  When my girls thumb through a magazine is there a warning sign or a notices that says, 'Warning:  Do not look past the clothes in this photo'?

I want my girls to grow up healthy, happy and with a strong mind of their own.  We do talk about these issues at a level of understanding that meets their needs.  I take my responsiblity as a parent to address these issues, but I still am fearful of the strongarm that media can have.

you wrote a very intriguing resonse. to a degree, all  of us want to be accepted and also to compete to be the best  at some level, male or female. otherwise, we wouldn't be able to work together or survive in society, period. as far as male-female relationships go, i think initially there is a lot of what you're discussing going on. then, as the relationship goes on, it hopefully will evolve into something that is more about who both people are on the inside. hopefully! sometimes it doesn't, and i think that's why relationships are so challenging. i agree that the majority of men are very tuned in to beautiful women and want a girl that thinks the world of them. the majority of women i believe want to feel beautiful and wants her man and her friends to think of her that way. i think it's a mixture of what's on the outside and the inside, but inner qualities can really make a person look more beautiful on the outside. at least to me; it may not make a lot of difference to others. i think at some level both men and women give portions of themselves in relationships. if it gets serious, both parties sacrifice certain elements of their lives for the other person. maybe the man stops hanging out with his buddies late on weekends or the woman does the same. that's just a hypothetical example, but you know what i mean. men and women are surely wired differently... believe me, i agree with a lot of what you're saying, dating and meeting people is a challenging game.... i think at some level both parties seek acceptance, for whatever reasons. when i first met my husband, i really wanted somebody that accepted me for who i was, and didn't just want to sleep with me, etc. he was the only man that i'd ever met that didn't just want that "one thing" right off the bat. dating is so hard... i feel really fortunate that i met somebody that loves me for me, in all ways... finding that in a partner really is hard... there are men out there who kind of "go against the grain" from the typical man stereotype, they're just really hard to find... there are also really confident women out there who honestly, really and truly are not concerned so much with their physical appearance or people accepting them for that and that alone... it's more emotional/cerebral than that, like you were outlining. i don't know, i just found what you wrote really interesting and it made me think a little...

Fight videos: I had to fight back tears watching the footage and could not have been happier when the footage stopped. Unfortunately he is still going to make these videos and people will by them because our society is becoming to accepting of violence. It makes me sick to hear him say he is helping less fortunate people by making these videos, he only says that so he can feel okay about it while he counts his money.

 

As for the thin model story, could the designer be more delusional. The average American woman is roughly 5'4" and 155lbs. Why should I be bombarded with images that make me feel fat even though I am 5'8" and 132 lbs. Also I think that it bears mentioning that half of these models on the runways are16 years old (which brings up the issue that we should not be dressing little girls up and making them into sex symbols to sell clothing for people twice their age. These girls should be in school getting an education)! Of course they are thin... and for the older models saying "when I was 16 I could not gain weight for anything" guess what at 16 I couldn't either, but they are not all 16 anymore and neither am I. Do they really think that we are all so stupid or the models okay with killing themselves to be used as a hanger?

In high school I saw a picture of Kate Moss in People magazine.  She was holding a bottle of Jack Daniels and a pack of Marlboro Lights.  The caption read something like "Kate Moss holds all the consumes to stay that size".  I thought she was perfect, so guess what?  I started smoking and stopped eating.  I blame no one for this; not her, the magazine, the journalist, my parents.  It just happened.   As a result I RUINED my metabolism for life.  I graduated frfom high school at 98 pounds.  I am 5'3".  My sophmore year of college, I started eating "normally" again.  I gained 70 pounds over 9 months.  Since then, it is a constant struggle to be of average size.  This is a dirty little secret of anorexia, how you can never eat "normally again without blowing up like a balloon.   I have done weight watchers for 6 years now, taking a break for my pregnancy.  I just wanted to say that while I don't agree with people blaming fashion, Hollywood, and the media for eating disorders; it is an absolute truth that the 3mention have ENORMOUS influence on how women and girls view themselves.

 

p.s. a little of topic but...ever notice how magazines (I speak of Good Housekeeping, Parents, and others) Always have diet and exercise tips as well as fattening recipes in the same issue?

Hi, you are so right, absolutely true, it all comes down to self esteem and what we see ourselves, no one can be exactly perfect, even the models i am sure have problems and actresses but if they have a problem then find another job i agree with you wholly.