Topic : How Porn Has Hurt Our Relationship

to Kimi's previous post, I will repeat (again) why an addict (him) doesn't want his co-addict (you) to get a clue. Here's why, and it's very simple to grasp, actually.

It is not in HIS best interest for you to get wise to him. Operative words here are HIS BEST INTEREST.

He DOES NOT want the status quo modified. It would make him do something he doesn't want to do- quit the porn use and plug back in to you, the marriage, his life, whatever. I am certain he has told his counselor many lies, half-truths and disseminations, all to make him seem like he is not addicted. Look, a counselor isn't a mind-reader, isn't clairvoyant, isn't endowed with the power to separate truth from lie, at least until they delve deeper into someone's motivations and reasons and actions. All they know is what they are told by their client. And if the client is not there of their own volition, out of a sincere desire to change undesirable behavior that they admit is damaging their lives or relationships, because they truly want to discover, and change what they are doing, a counselor's hands are tied by that dynamic. You can't get blood out of a stone, or the truth out of someone who is living in denial. The reason why so many quit therapy after a few sessions is because the therapist is trying to wade through the bullsh** and get to the real issues, and most people who are not there for the right reasons get spooked and stop going. They don't want to change, don't want to know, and don't want their little world shaken up, by anyone. Even you. Especially by you. You being on this board "offends" him because secrecy and darkenss are key to his dysfunction. He certainly does not want you to get up on your hind legs and turn on the lights, metaphorically speaking. He needs you to be in the dark, crouching, with him. He counts on it, in fact. People living in any kind of dysfunction need the people around them to cater to it, support it, or keep their mouths shut about it. If you don't, you then become a problem to them, a barrier to them continuing to pursue their dysfunctions in peace. Then, you become the one who is "messing things up", not them. You become the disloyal one, the unsupportive one, the fly in the ointment. I know this because I lived it. It seems you are living it too. It will be, IMO, impossible for you to facilitate a change in the dynamic between you and him without his vested input and commitment. Your efforts will be in vain without him on the same page.

Hi and hope things are well with you.

 

There are many reasons why a person feels thrreatned when what they had hoped would remain a secret, becomes visible. There is the element of embarrassment, shame, guilt; then there is the element of personal exploitation; then there is the anger that comes when the dirty deed is no longer just a dirty deed but a problem. When we do things that we like to do, even if we know they are wrong or unhealthy, its more fun to keep it a secret. I believe this is what makes porn use and affairs so attractive. When a man feels he wants to keep his sex life separate from his lover, what does that say about him?

 

Porn and strip clubs, etc. is something some guys do and its something they know women don't like. It makes them feel they are in control. Why do they need to feel in control? Because they are afraid of getting close, of being vulnerable. Women are the monsters , we are the control freaks, we are insecure, as long as they believe this, they will justify their behaviours. They need us to be crazy, upset and insecure so that they can carry out their immature activity and be able to blame someone else or lest they look at their contributions to the problems, which we know a lot of people, not just men are incapable of doing..

 

If you are reaching out to other people, like this board, family, friends, then his secret is no longer. It puts the porn use on display for everyone to see........including him. It takes a strong man to see that when a woman reaches out to others its because he is not.  He is also threatend by the fact that you may educate yourself more and learn that he is not someone you would want in your life.Then he will be stuck with porn and that is all he will have. He wants to keep doing something that he knows is damaging to intimacy because he does not want to be intimate. It is that simple.

 

My husband use to say things to me when he knew I was on this board too. He would say "why are you wasting your time with Dr Phil? He made it seem silly, trivial, like I was the one that had the problem ; If you think about it, isn't it reverse psychology on their part? And we fall for it because addicts will do just about anything to protect their addiction, even lie to a therapist (someone that they can be brutally honest without punishment or blame). A therapist is sometimes the only person that we can talk to honestly about, if we can't be honest with a therapist, then do you really think that person can feel safe enough to be honest with someone outside of that realm?

 

I would tell my husband I am on this board because I am trying to find out how to deal with a man that has a sex/intimacy/porn problem. He would shake his head and tell me I was crazy - then he would go at some point in the day, and look at porn and m/b to it. Who is the crazy one? If he is not looking at porn on the internet and m/b to it, he is doing it somewhere else...this I can promise. The only way you are going to feel you may have a chance with him is if he becomes an open book to you. If he does not do that, you are going to spend the next 10 years in the same situation, maybe find a different source to vent, when your venting should be with him and he needs to be able to defend his use of porn and convince you he does not have a problem with it.

 

If he does not step up to the plate in this, there is only one person trying to make this marriage work. :( If he can't talk to you like his lover, wife, friend, then what kind of relationship is that? It doesn't sound like a very strong one that will hold up to the test of time.

 

 

If you ask any guy how he would feel if he and his women were watching a vid of two guys doing sexual things......I am sure it doesn't make him feel inadequate but more invaded upon, possibly compared to, attention not necessarily including him at times, he may feel a little pang of wonderment. But if the guy was confident in his sexuality, he could sit there all day and look at two hot guys doing it and his women getting off on it, and it won't affect him at all. He doesn't care that she doesn't want him or need him 100% of time and will be happy with whatever he gets.! Guys don't care that their women are getting off on other guys as long as there is the act of sex going on. Men like to live vicariously and the hotter and hornier the woman, the better off he is!!!!!!!!!

 

Now, can you tell me what is odd about this post???? ;)  Kimi

My husbands indulges in porn daily, He does not think I know but I do, I have been with him for 33 years. I find that I go through cycles, About every 3-4 months some kind of porn crap pops up in my face. I react in all kinds of ways. Sometimes  i stay away from him,  sometimes I don't talk for days, sometime in the past I have left him. I have notice the last flare up which was about two weeks ago, that all I want to do is sleep, I don't think  I have eaten a meal in days because when I smell or see food I want to throw up. My husband knows all this because I make it perfectly clear my views on this subject. Away I think I have come to the end of my rope. My next step is to just get away from him for good. Being depressed and self destructive is no way to live and I just can't seem to get over this issue.  Thanks for listening

Beverley7

I have been married to a man that also looked at porn daily and spent 7 years with him. All along I have wondered whether I was making something out of nothing more then a boyish sexual deviant behaviour or was it something that I needed to address and work on changing or adjusting to. I tried addressing it and I looked like a fool and a crazy woman, adjusting seems to have been the only next logical approach.

 

I adjusted for 7 years, you 33.

 

Now, in adjusting to something means we find another way of surviving our environment. If its cold, we put on a coat, if its hot, we swim. If we are in an emotional negligant and abusive relationship we can do either of two things. Whimper and cower away just waiting for the next attack or flee.  The problem with sexuality is so many people don't know how to make it work for them. If you come at it with a state of desperation and attachment, there will be suffering. If you come at it with compassion and love, that is what will be returned.

 

I avoided him, I tried numerous ways to escape the reality, all the way to the point of having sex outside of the marriage. I told him his satisfaction with porn is fine as long as I can go and find my source of pleasure; the problem was, it was not provided for on a flat screen or on a stage where money is involved.  If you can't agree to disagree and come out feeling the compromise was fair, there will never be peace, and there can never be love.

 

I sunk into a depression. At first, I was angry and shocked.  Then I became disappointed. Then I became depressed.  Depression is anger turned inward. You squashed your anger, now you are depressed.  It is difficult to come out of a depression, but it is absolutely possible.....with hard work, and mostly time spent on self introspection and love and compassion for yourself.

 

You need to start with the basics. Don't spend anymore time trying to figure it out. If you are going to stay with him, which is really what it sounds like, you will need to find a way to reclaim your soul. 

 

I have since left my husband. I am getting stronger every day.  The one thing I do know  is there is a difference between healthy compromise over healthy life problems, and unhealthy compromise and life problems.  We draw what we believe we deserve.  There is something in you that does not take you seriously, or believe you are worthy of love. And you are not going to GET OVER  this issue. Why?  Because you don't believe what it is you are trying to tell yourself.

 

As soon as I really believed I deserved better, I started saving my pennies and started looking for a exit.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 a I have been sharing those same feelings for 9 years now, I have a loving caring hubby but when porn is a part of it it usually takes over his mind to the point where we dont have sex unless he has watched, I know how u feel! firstly. . . . I know its not easy, and i know from time to time it feels like we get taken over by the rage, anger, dissapointment, and hurt by what they do to us!  a while ago some one told me that if I choose to stay no matter what the reason I must learn to not give PORN such a huge power over me and my situation! I know it sounds weird saying that but Luv was right I let it take over and consume me and every thing I felt! please dont make that mistake! Porn no matter what it does to our hubbies CANNOT AND MUST NOT HAVE ANY POWER OVER US!!!!!

You make alot of good points to me in your email. I have looked like a fool and a crazy women at times in my life also, This weekend was one of those times. I don't think  i will ever get over this issue either just as you stated because, sometimes I don't think I want to get over it, I want to be heard and understood. Which is not happening, How long have you been away from your husband, How hard was it for you to leave him? Did you leave him because of porn or were there other underlying issues.   I only have this issue which stems from childhood sexual abuse.  All other parts of my life are very good, (sex is not really great lately but I take responsibility for that) I don't want him to touch me, I get flashes of the images he watches on the internet and I want to puke.  It is hard to love and hate someone at the same time.

It is really difficult to know when to leave a relationship. For the most part, I don't think it is ever a GOOD time to leave, but sometimes we have to just for the sake of preservation and sanity. The reason I say it is never a good time to leave, is because, if you leave, do you truly believe you have learned the lesson from this experience? If not, you will repeat it. Sometimes we get attached to people with addictions; and sometimes we get addicted to being attached to people with addictions!!! Does this make sense to you?

 

Look at why you continue to feel helpless, abused, powerless. You have a right just like any other breathing person to be happy or at least to avoid pain if it is continuous and on going...like you have been in. 

 

I left my husband 6 months ago. I got a nice little apartment and we are separated only. In september of this year we will more then likely file for a legal divorce. The reason I say possible, is because anything is possible. Do I think I will ever get back together with him? NO. Why? Because I put 7 years into it...why would I need more time? I also didn't want him to touch me, or even better, look at me. I would wear conservative clothes around him so that he wouldn't get turned on. I didn't want to be looked at sexually by him after a while. Its kind of ironic, come to think about it. I would have and have done, a lot of things to get his attention to look my way sexually in the beginning, then all of a sudden the same man is no longer safe to me....and I felt the strong need to hide myself from  him. He had his porn. I didn't want to contribute to his fantasies any longer. If a man doesn't know how to treat a woman, then he doesn't deserve one.

 

I am a woman and so are you. You have a compassionate nature. In regards to hating someone and loving them at the same time???? It is truly not possible. You have to decide which one it is...and even if you decide to love him, you have to decide if you love him more then you love you? If you decide you hate him...then......I don't think any amount of changing on his part will allow you to come back from that. Once a person has put you in a position where you question whether you hate, you have to look at the hurt and pain that pushed you to that point. Then you have to look at how much more are you willing to devote in the realm of time/life, to something that is going to bring you discomfort and pain.

 

The images he has seen is tatooeed in his mind. You cannot remove them. He can't either. Unless he works on it. It doesn't sound like he wants to work on it........neither did mine.....thats why I left.

 I believe you can love and hate someone simultaneously. You can "love" the person but "hate" their actions. Kind of like the "love the sinner, hate the sin" dynamic. However, to try to separate the person from their actions is not a good thing to do. What someone does, how they behave, is part and parcel of what makes them who they are. We don't care really what someone else does, as long as they are not doing it to us. If I may use an analogy, it's like the guy who knows his neighbor, a "nice guy" as far as he is concerned, is robbing houses to support his drug habit. As long as the guy doesn't rob his house, he figures it's none of his business. Well, it may not be, but the odds are that sooner than later it will be his house that's robbed. Then he'll care. The point is that who someone shows themselves to and how it affects us directly  is what tips the balance. Then we have to make a decision based on how we are affected by it. Whether or not we can tolerate it and live with it. If we can't live with the dynamic that this person is presenting to us as what will be our reality by virtue of living with them, then we need to make unwanted, unpleasant, and life-changing decisions regarding it. If we don't make these difficult decisions, or think we can retreat to a "neutral corner", we are then in effect accepting the status quo. We have then indirectly said to our dysfunctional partner (and to ourselves,) "I don't like what's going on, I don't like the way it makes me feel, I don't like living under your tyranny, but I am afraid to do anything about it, so I will bend to your will and become a co-conspirator in your dysfunction, because I love you." Sounds crazy, doesn't it? And it is. That, my friend, isn't love. It is fear disguising itself as love. Not making a decision is a decsion. A fear-based, fear controlled decision. I have learned in the course of my journey through this that I would rather make one brave, self-preserving difficult decision than a thousand fear-based decisions that keep me trapped in another's tyranny of dysfunction. And, in 26 years of marriage to my very dysfunctional spouse that I "loved" so deeply, I did make thousands of fear-based decisions. I trapped myself by doing that. He didn't do that to me. I accept full responsibility for my actions. Yes, we were co-addicts due to me retreating to my "neutral corner" and deciding not to decide. Ultimately, I had to make a "him or me" decision. I made it. I chose me. Because, in the end, the only person I have to be accountable to is me. I had to love myself as much as I claimed to love him. I finally came out of my neutral corner and did what what I had to do to preseve my self and live a healthy, functional life free of my husband and his unhealthy ways of living. His way of "loving" me was not good for me. And I was not loving myself well either. I couldn't live like that anymore.