Topic : How Porn Has Hurt Our Relationship

Everything changes. And I mean everything. The relationship, how we view ourselves, each other, our expectations, what it means to now be a "family", how it unfolds and works out over time, as we shift our focus from the "us" as a couple to the "us" with a child, and on and on. How we adjust to these changes and shifts of perception and the reworking the relationship to accommodate these changes is the work of an adult, mature person. Now, I realize that this doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens as the challenges and changes unfold themselves and we either step up to the plate or retreat into our dysfunctions. BUT, if our partner is already retreating, already withdrawing, how in the hell can we expect them to join us in the new reality already on its way? If they can't deal with the problems and issues in the present, they sure as hell won't want to deal with new ones. There is a saying- "Life gives us the test first and the lesson after."

Redfeathers is right on regarding you after childbirth. You will need time to recover, time to heal, and will be spending time with your baby. Lots of time. It's called bonding and it is crucial to your baby's development. Many new fathers feel "left out" during this time. You can certainly make sure that your husband doesn't feel as if you are excluding him, and sometimes they themselves feel uncomfortable or afraid of the baby. Again, this is not uncommon. I had all my children by C-section, and needed even more healing time. I also nursed my children, which wasn't easy at first. I did not exclude my husband, but he sure excluded me. No sex for 6 weeks while I healed from not only pregnancy, but from major abdominal surgery? That's what made him feel 'left out." My babies were colicky to boot, which meant lots of crying (on my part as well as theirs,) and I suffered from post-partum depression due to my fluctuating hormone levels, and I felt unattractive, etc., etc. My husband had his porn, and went to it more and more often. He was the one that left me out. He was not and is not and never has been a mature, grown up adult, and saw no value in becoming one, so when things got tough or when my needs our our kids' needs were more important than his, he ran away. From me and his kids and into his porn, and pot, and eventually to other women who felt sorry for this poor, obligated, misunderstood, trapped man.

Redfeathers is also right about the fact that, as their porn use increases, the deeper they go into it, the less they will care about how it affects others. They do feel that they are 'getting away with it' and will face no repercussions. And, if you put up with it, you are teaching them that they can do it to you and to your kids. If you complain, you will get lip-service, you will be told by them what you want to hear to get you off their case. You will not be told the truth. It is a hell, a living hell. A hell that you will have helped to create for yourself, and for your children. Is there a chance that your man will "wake up" and step up to the plate and become the man he needs to be for himself, you and your children? Well, sure, but only if he values doing that. You can't talk him into it or nag him into it or make him do it. How long should you wait for him? 6 months- a year- 5 years- 26 years? Redfeathers advises that you give him an ultimatum, you and your child or the porn, and if he chooses you, leave if you catch him viewing porn again. The problem with that is , if he is an addict, he will need help to stop. His fear or losing you will not be enough to keep him from it. If he just has a habit, and not an addiction, it still will not be enough. Him just "stopping" because of fearing losing you will be a temporary thing. Because the reasons he uses will still be there, in his mind. Unless he is willing to deal with himself, and the issues behind his porn use that have nothing to do with you, it will not work. And you will be again in the near future dealing with how his behaviors and actions affect you. And your child. And each go-round will be worse than the one before it. I hate to sound like the voice of doom here, but this is a very serious and life-affecting issue. But you already know that. It just hasn't affected you enough to do anything serious about it yet. But you must get serious about it. Dead serious.

well i came home from school one day, and he was watching our son. Mind you our son is five months and he had him laying on the couch. So i walked in my apartment and i saw him exit out of something really quick and he stood up pulling up his pants. I asked him very calmly, was it porn? and no answer we did that for about 25 mins! i kept asking him what was it that he was looking at and he persisted saying it was noithin. finally i told him i am leaving you if you lie to me. I told him i can look up the history on the computer and if i have to find out on my own than hes gone... Still nothing. he just stood there with this stupid look on his face. finally all i got out of him was a nod and i was so angry and hurt! Id understand if he was watching it if we werent haveing sex and if i wasnt open to trying/ doing what he wasnted,.... i am still crushed and hurt idk im still trying to work things out with him.....

Which is what lead me to say what I did in my last post. He is putting you in a position to make the decision. A very weak and selfish person would do that.

 

He is too selfish to even consider how you may be feeling....its all about him, isn't it? He is sleeping in another room. That say a magnitude of things but what it says is he is checked out. Whether its a temporary thing or not, he is still not meeting you in the middle. That can be really frustrating but I would assume this is how he has been all along? Men, some, :) don't like to deal with a woman that is strong. They call it bitchy.....but what it is is strength of character.

 

Its really sad that this is going on but it sounds like you married a schmuck. Sorry. I did too. I am not separated and waiting for the divorce. He has since lost his job, seems to be financially strapped and I wonder, why? I am no longer there right? YOu would think he would have more money. He complained I never gave him enough, yet, I am gone and doing great, and he isn't. The point I am trying to get at is people will try to make you think you are the "defective" one when the reality of it is, they are and they know it. I am sorry you are going through this mental torture. It will pass. I promise.

Thank you both for your thoughtful and helpful responses. I appreciate your candor and honesty. Before we were married, I gave him the ultimatum that we would go to counseling or not get married. It was over something else, not this. We sound like real winners...I know. I've tried to look at this from the outside, and wrote him a rather good letter Friday and ended it by asking him to do the same. He and I are both very good at declaring what other people should do...
I left it for him and went to see a friend over the weekend, came back last night. He checked in on me, and was nice when I got home, but he didn't push anything, and I didn't either, as he just left to work on disaster relief in Louisiana, and could be gone for weeks. He asked if he could sleep in the bed last night, and I said, "Yes, but you are not getting off easy on this one, no pun intended." So I am going to print out your joint response, and when he gets home and settled, we're going to talk. My work pays for marital counseling, so I think it is time for that ultimatum, don't you? We got together when he was 22, and he has changed and matured a lot. We've never really dealt with this. I get pissed and all hell breaks loose, but it's never been to the point where he "gets it" or has the ah-ha moment, so I know it's never even been close to being addressed to the point he thinks I am doing anything but getting pissed for pissed's-sake. You know? I know he really does love me and is happy about the baby. He does smack my butt, kiss me and say I am pretty every day. I just thought preggo would kick things in higher gear, because he said he thought pregnant women were hot. I don't think he was ready for this hot preggo to be tired, whiney and sick in bed so much...
I liked your comment that he sees porn and MB as something HE does, separate from me,
and has always done-a quote from him. So I agree, I don't think he understands how doing that really affects me, our relationship and our future family. The thought of my kids finding his porn really turns my stomach and opens up a whole'nother chapter. UGH! I agree, I don't want to be bitchy and hate him in front of my kids, because I just caught him with porn that day.

BTW, I left out that we DID go, and the results were good. He as recently given ME the ultimatum to go back or HE was gone, but that was right after I got pregnant and he had NOT CLUE about how tired and cranky I was and that it was normal withdrawing into my self a little, which is typical in the first trimester. We worked that out, I guess. So, my point is that I think I may luck out in this and get him to go.

I believe that joint marital counseling is indicated, but IMO, it must be separate from HIS OWN INDIVIDUAL counseling. Individual counseling for YOU is important so you can gain clarity for yourself regarding what you will accept in a relationship and what is healthy and what is not. You have issues, too, we all do. It will not hurt you to get counseling.

In my own experience with individual and joint counseling, when my husband had his first affair in 1982, after 5 years of marriage, a few months after I had miscarried our second child at 16 weeks and had been diagnosed with cervical dysplasia, or carcinoma in situ, rapidly developing cancer cells on my cervix, I found counseling to be extremely helpful to me.  After discovering the affair and giving my husband an ultimatum, her or me, and if he chose me and our young son he was to go into individual counseling immediately, with me doing the same, he agreed and entered into counseling, as I did. After 6 months, we also entered into joint marital therapy. I worked very hard on my issues and problems, in order to become a better wife, mother and person. My husband, as he told me years later, just sat there, giving out the least information to his therapist he could get away with, and not telling her anything about his porn or pot use, or his family of origin issues and dysfunctions. He told me differently, and of course I never really knew what was going on except what he told me, which was scant. I shared with him my experiences and my struggles to overcome my issues, and he would listen, but not comment or share his. I did not want to breach his privacy, of course, so I didn't press him. The thing I didn't understand was that my husband was the secretive type, unlike the private type, and there is a difference. We were 21 when we married, young and inexperienced, with a lot of growing up to do, but he did not want to grow up. He was a Peter Pan, and still is. So of course, our marriage got better, for a while, but eventually crumbled and died a horrible death, due to him returning to his vices of porn and pot with a vengeance, and after finding his "soul-mate", a married co-worker, who gave him the courage to leave me and his 'miserable' marriage and who was supportive of him selling pot again (he is a computer engineer who makes $135K a year) and who gave him the cajones she said I had "cut off." My ex has Narcissistic Personality Disorder also. I am not saying that your man is as dysfunctional as mine was, just sharing my experiences.

I am glad that you are aware of the great danger your child will be in by virtue of having a father that has porn in the household. Yes, it's a whole 'nother chapter, and you are naive if you think it will not happen. I know I was. And, sure, your husband thought pregnant women are "hot" but that's fantasy-thinking, like women are in porn. It's nothing like the real world, where pregnant women are bloated, sick, tired, with crazy hormones and swollen ankles. Just like any woman in the real world, with issues, troubles and imperfect bodies, that work, live and love and cry and get upset and have periods every month, and kids that always need something, and on and on. That's my point. Men who love porn also love that fantasy, that never is intruded on by real women with real lives, and who never need or ask anything of them. A fantasy life that they alone control, that only has to do with their needs and desires. And allows them to have a sexual release without any work on their part (except the mechanical work of helping themselves orgasm.)

My point about him seeing porn and you as two separate entities is valid, but my point in writing it is that that is flawed thinking on his part. Yes, that's what they say in defense of their use, but it is a red herring. It is not a valid reason or excuse. What it means is that he is able to separate himself from you, his wife, and can separate himself sexually from you also, and conduct a separate sexual life. The very fact that he does it means he is keeping a part of himself apart and separate from you, and that is never good for a relationship. IMO, you cannot grow together as a couple, or as a family, as long as he does this. It is an agent of destruction to your marriage. So, your choices as I see them is to accept his porn use and be okay with it, while watching constantly so your child never comes across it, or by deciding that it is something you do not need in your life or your marriage, and making decisions based on that declaration. The former decision (accepting the porn) will certainly keep the peace (for a while) unless you decide that the latter one (no porn in your lives) is the one you want in your family's life, and that may be the more difficult one to negotiate. I agree with you that he doesn't understand how it affects you and will affect your marriage and family life, but IMO most men who view don't understand it, until it is brought 'home' to them, so to speak. Many people view porn as harmless and benign, but I know differently, and so do my kids. Again, good luck and keep posting. ~j~

well after telling my husband to move out and packing some of his stuff, he has decided to move to the back of the property where we have an old run down cabin he is fixing it up as i write this. im pissed off because i cant really do anything about it and now he gets to keep doing what hes always done including the porn now he just doesnt have to hide it. very stubborn and selfish and no desire to communicate. I just need to get on with my life.

Our choices, are ours totally and sometimes we make choices that are not always good or in the best interest of another, or even ourselves. But they still remain "ours". You are right to believe you can't do anything and you need to move on with your life. If he has a change of heart and wants to talk things over with you, I am sure you are approachable and available, even if you have already shut down some. My ex has tried to let me know he was interested in working things out, but not only do I not have the strength nor stamina to endure what that "may" entail, I also don't know how much can change since people really don't change, they modify. 

 

I feel sorry for people that choose porn over a real person; it took me a long time to get to that point, but if you think about it, it is a very lonely existence if that is your main source of intimacy, right?

 

These next few days, weeks, months, are going to feel very strange. Kind of a lull. The lull is peace of mind. :)  Think about it. I have and now when I smile or laugh at something that I've thought about, I think about how many years I spent with that smile turned upside down. When we take care of ourselves, it can feel like we are being selfish, not compromising, too independant, stubborn, but the word selfish actually means "taking care of one self". Thats where it is a healthy selfish and a good one; not the other meaning, hording, etc.

 

Get acquainted with being selfish......its the only way to fly!!!

 

 

I think I have decided that when he gets back, I am going to talk with him and go over everything that we have discussed on here. I can't thank you enough for helping me articulate what I have been feeling for so long, and all the new and frightening possibilities that having a child has brought into this. My mother always said children always make problems worse, never better. I agree about the separate counseling. Was already going to do that. This last time he brought up marital counseling, he said he wanted to do separate and joint. When we went before, I was surprised at how open he was, how much he talked and how almost to tears he was, to make this work. And it wasn't a show. He can be like that in private. (We really do like and love each other a lot. There was a lot of alcohol floating around at that time, and our fights were getting out of hand. We've gone since then with no real incident, as far as that goes, so I think it helped, in that respect.)

It's interesting that you say you do not really know what went on during your husbands private counseling sessions. There's a couple of issues that I REALLy think my husband needs individual help with.

1. The main one is that his father cheated on his mother during their entire 22 year marriage, supposedly without her knowing. My father in law told him when he was 15 that it was okay to have affairs, as long as it doesn't hurt your family. My husband knows that is stupid and doesn't respect his father for cheating and telling him like it was no big deal, but how could that not affect things?
Maybe he thinks because it doesn't involve another person, and vowing never to be a cheater like his dad, that what he is doing is okay.

2. Along with that, I think though he doesn't condone his father's cheating, he sees his mom as abusive and psycho. So he thinks that when women get upset, they over react and act psycho and want attention. His mom seriously has a problem, I've seen it myself, but I don't want his deranged home life to affect how he looks at me if I am upset.

3. My husband first started looking at porn in elementary school, at his grandparents'. Heck, I would have too! His granddad kept his stash of Playboys hidden in the game room. He got in trouble when he got caught one day, but I can't help believing that started it, and he thinks if granddad can do it, why is it so bad?

4. I think he masturbated so much before we met, that he became used to that maybe harsher touch, so when we did it, it was not delicate at all. Very rough pounding. I was shocked and like, WTF? do I do with this guy... I don't remember how I broached the subject, but he said the girls he had been with before, (I think three), said he was great in bed.
??? who are these people and have they never read Cosmo.....?

So maybe sex with a person is frustrating to him. I told him it seemed more like a chore than a pleasure to him sometimes. Sometimes it's awesome for both of us...but I can't help to theorize that's after he's had a porn "dry spell" - again the pun.

No, I do not choose to accept it and run damage control the rest of my life. The way he acted yesterday and today, after my letter and going to my friend's, I think he really could be ready to surrender to some sort of help for this issue. I think our separation while he's gone to work came at a perfect time. However, on the same note, being on storm relief work is very hard and stressful, and the guys always turn heavily to calling and texting loved ones at home for support. We kind of talked about that today, and he asked me to be there and be patient with him as much as I can. I will, but he's not off the hook...

well i guess i have to look at how this situation will work for my daughter. as i work nights and my husband was always here at night, Him not leaving the property means that he will still be here to look after our daughter while im at work and until i get home. which is better than having her go somewhere to be babysat until i get home at 10:30 pm. He can still pick her up from school too. but the only thing about this is i have to see him a little more than id like to. Its hard to get over someone when there in your space still. He brought me a coffee again today but that was all i saw of him all day as he is still working on fixing that damn cabin. what a confusing message. why does he bother bringing me a coffee. well hopefully i can find a day shift through my work. its a seniority thing. I was a little weak last night. I tried to talk to him again.When will i ever learn. I asked so many questions and still no answers. one question was do you love me, response- I guess so . what the hell is that. still after asking so many why questions, I finally said well maybe ill move out cause someone needs to leave the situation.  As much as I dont regret confronting him and kicking him out, Im still so hurt by how he is reacting to this. I wish he would show some emotion like cry that would make me feel a little better. I guess i want him to suffer a little bit. I want him to be accountable and I want him to be punished. sounds extreme.  meanwhile im being punished in a sense for kicking him out . this is so backward. it really bugs me that i dont know how hes feeling. Im going to have to keep myself busy so that i dont go stir crazy over this. its really hard to break out of habit. ie wondering where he is, what did he buy today, who did he see today, Years of distrust made me be detective all the time which isnt healthy i know but its hard to break . I hope i make it through this.