Topic : How Porn Has Hurt Our Relationship

 Okay, okay, I'm not saying that you can't have your opinion, but what you did say was that men who like that stuff are sick and twisted and hate women and need to see them mutilated to feel equal, and that women who like it are also sick and are self-loathers and hate themselves as a gender. Not all men and women who are into that stuff are that way, and it would be unfair to make that assumption about them. Like her boyfriend. You can't say something like that about all people who are into that, because you don't know. That was what I meant by a generalization. It isn't fair to judge about what you don't know for sure.

What we read, who our friends are, what movies we like to look at, what kind of foods we like or dislike, the clothes we wear, the cars we drive, all this, has our signature all over it. All our choices are our choices and if anyone wants to know the type of person they are just look at the things and the people that are in it.  I don't like to look at scarey movies or war movies or any movie that has violence or sex in it. I don't think that is entertainment and skill. Stunt people are probably the better actors in these films, imo.  I don't like seeing, whether in imagination or reality, anyone getting physically hurt. My mind reacts to it as if it is real (even though I know it isn't) and I don't like to spend my time looking at such films. But if I did, I don't know if I would be able to admit the numbness and lack of compassion that a lot of these films are portraying.

 

I heard a show on the radio the other day and they were talking specificially about Kill Bill and the other things that are out there now.... think it was one of the "Model" shows.......whereby they had these girls dressed up like they were dead, all bloody and gorey, and the final theme was that they actually killed each other! They depicted these women as hating each other so much that they all killed each other. Mean Girls television show tried to depict the ugly girl having it just as good as the pretty one, but in the long run, they landed in a competition anyway, hating each other. They are still trying to pin women against women. Our relationships with women are strained as it is, we need to love and care for one another, not kill each other. That is not attractive or sexual, at least not to me.

 

Now, if I had a friend that liked horror movies to the point of exhaustion, I would look at their other qualities. I am sure it is just a form of entertainment to many. Much like porn is to many. But there is something underlyingly unsettling about sleeping with a person that just spent 3 hours on a computer looking at self mutilitaion, physical violence towards women, and sadomasochistic shows. I would be a little concerned that they may poke my eyes out while I was sleeping .....

 

There is such a thing as natural inquisitiviness; anything to extreme or used on a daily basis is a reason for concern. IMO.

First of all, redfeathers, I have reread my post and I was a little harsh, so I would like to apologize for the tone of my post. It is never my intention to be that way, although as a human being I sometimes am. Kimi, I couldn't agree more. There is too much 'acting out' with each other, pitting gender against gender and woman against woman, and IMO it serves to further alienate us from each other. I like Alfred Hitchcock films, and classic horror (Frankenstein, Dracula,) and the 50's films where our environment turns against us (giant ants, mutations, etc.) and fears about nuclear war and the resultant price to pay, and of course aliens from space!!! The fear comes from inside ourselves and as we gain power over our world and our environment, there is a price to pay for our power. We also have a fear of the unknown. As far as we know, humans are the only sentient beings in the universe, but, who knows who's out there, perhaps watching us? I was thinking about Frankenstein last night. Mary Shelley wrote the book in the 18th century as a cautionary tale....the Industrial Revolution was supplanting the Romantic age in Europe and the scientific world was making major discoveries. The monster, Frankenstein, became a modern-day Prometheus. Prometheus, in Greek mythology, was a Titan who stole fire from the Sun God Helios, and brought it back to earth. This act brought men to the same power level as the Gods, but, being human, men misused the power for their own ends. Frankenstein was the embodiment of humankind's arrogance, that science could do better at 'creating' a human than God himself could do. Instead of creating the perfect man-made being, a monster was the result, who turned on his creator.  Sorry for the stream of conciousness, but that has been on my mind. 

I was also thinking about how my attitude towards 'fake violence' has changed because of real-life events. I used to enjoy attending and participating in 'murder mystery' presentations, until my brother was brutally murdered. It's not that I am now 'against' them, it's just that my perceptions have changed and I no longer can view them as entertainment. It hits too close to home for me now.  I don't enjoy it anymore. I feel the same about bloody, gory, violent horror films. I get no pleasure and excitement watching them, even though I realize it's 'not real'. I don't even like to see dead animals on the side of the road. To each his own, I guess, but I can't help but feel that, as we human beings get more and more desentitized to violence and mayhem, we lose something very precious and fragile that is needed in our humanity.

I can see how your perception would be different, considering something  violent  happened to your brother in the real world. Still, that was the real world, and movies are fake. The line between real and fake is what I meant to draw with my post. I believe it is totally wrong when the brutal, but fake, things that we see in movies start to happen in real life. That's when there are problems, when people can't make the distinction between real and fake.

When I watch the bloody movies, I know it's fake, and I know that no one is really being hurt. That's why it doesn't bother me. But when I turn on the news and there's a report of how someone got raped and mutilated, then it bothers me because that was a real person that was just brutalized and killed. Real violence is never cool. Fake violence can be cool as long as it stays fake.

What is it that you find enjoyable about watching someone get stabbed, ran over by a car, paralyzed, etc? What does that feed in you? I have heard it is for the daredevils that like to feel they ousted death or escaped...when we watch a movie about a couple and love, is that love perceived as fake? just because it is done by actors? or is it something that we connect with and can relate to? I think the same goes for those that like to watch horror movies. They like to see someone getting hurt, mutiliated, abused. I just don't see any thrill in it. I guess its good I am not a movie critic . lol

 

When I happen to come to a movie, watching it, etc. and I know there is going to be something horrible coming up, I turn the station. even my unconscious mind does not approve of this. I guess it takes all kinds. :)

We as a species are prone to violence. We have it in us, and it is presented in many ways. To deny that is to deny part of our humanity. That being said, we are not 'supposed' to display it. It is socially unacceptable. Yep, people still act out violently, but there are government sanctioned punishments for it. The specter of punishment doesn't seem to curtail acts of violence. Currently 10% of the population is incarcerated, most for violent crimes. Jails and prisons are overcrowded and the building of more and more facilities to house inmates is underway. It's one of the few "growth" industries in our currently depressed economy.

There are forms of violence that are legislated to be acceptable in some form. Like war. Or capital punishment. The taboo against acting out violently is also circumvented and presented to us in a socailly acceptable 'fake form', such as in works of fiction, films, art, etc. Some are based on real-life incidents, some are fantasy driven scenarios. Our primitive brains are still with us, and we have this need to discharge our violent impulses in 'safe ways.' And can cite free speech to defend it. People do not necessarily act out in violence after viewing violent images.  We don't need to see violent images to act out violently. Our primitive brain does it for us. But I wonder if those who relieve their primitive, violent impulses by watching and enjoying 'fake violence' would have been those who would have been a part of 'real violence' in ages past, such as the Romans who watched people being attacked and eaten by lions or slaughtered by gladiators in the Coliseum? That was certainly an accepted, government sponsored and sanctioned form of entertainment for the masses and punishment for those who violated laws or edicts. "Everybody' was doing it. The emperor approved and made it available. So it was okay, right? Or have we become more 'civilized' in this modern age? Just askin'. Then there is the question: does 'fake' violence beget 'real' violence? Or is it the other way around? Again, just askin'.

I have found that most people put very little critical thought into why they do what they do. As long as it's there, available and socially 'acceptable', and fills some need, they buy into it, and defend their choices and actions as acceptable because it's not 'real'. It's just entertainment, what's the problem? IMO, the problem is that it DOES affect us in negative ways, be it desensitization to violent images, or an increase in tolerance to violence in society. We as a society are becoming MORE violent, not less. The defense has been that as long as it doesn't affect them personally, in "real' ways, it is okay. I have a hard time believing anyone who says that they enjoy seeing 'fake', socially acceptable violence but are horrified by the real kind. Or that they are two completely separate entities that do not belong together in any way, shape or form. IMO, they are two sides of the same coin. It's just that one is acceptable in this society, and one isn't. So far. One is affecting someone in negative ways and one isn't. As long as it isn't them, no harm done.

 Feeding our primitive, violent impulses by looking at and enjoying 'fake' violence, forms of violence that are becoming more and more disgusting, is not totally benign and harmless, IMO. Frankly, it horrifies and scares me. To me, THAT is really scary. But, I also understand that some people do view "fake" violence as entertainment only, and would never act it out or defend real violence. I just don't happen to be one of those people. And as hard as I try, I can't truly understand someone's need for that type of entertainment. Even though I possess the same primitive brain that they do. But then again, my perception of it has been 'tainted' by real life events and real-life violence that has affected me and mine. So my view of it has been colored by that reality. I do not get any pleasure out of seeing entertainment presented as violent images, murders, decapitations, killings, tortures, of any kind. Human or animal. There is enough of that really happening, really occuring. I just don't get why someone would enjoy seeing it, 'fake' as it is presented to be. Yuck.

Not the last sentence but the paragraph before this...the women he looks at are drawings and computer generated ones that he himself makes from imagaination or from other peoples drawings. His obsession and the amonut of time and money are the issue along with the disgusting nature of these pictures...There is also jealousy as he makes these pictures for other women and flirted with these same women on this website all behind my back..Sex is not an issue with me by the way, he has the problem with not wanting it as much as I do and maybe this thing is the reason..he says no they have nothing to do with each other..I do like your last sentence and I am going to ask him just that...thanks

If a person is adult, works hard and knows the value of the buck, then what they spend their money on is a good indicator of who they are and what they find enjoyable. There are many ways around justifiying how we spend our money and why. Is it the fact that he is spending money that you don't have, or neglecting the children, bills, or you want him to spend that money differently?

 

How would you like him to spend that money does he control what you spend? It comes down to remaining as simple as possible because it is very easy to get caught up in the drama of this. I did for practically 7 years.  It seems as if the material is more significant to you, not the money.....or I would think that is only my perception, the material is deplorable yet it isn't really because you are still there. If he killed someone, would you stay? This is where the line of addict and co dependant come into play. You are enabling him to continue by staying and by your staying, he feels it is justified and you won't leave. He placates you....you placate him.

 

If you feel jealous, ask youself what is it , despite this, that you would like to be different? In my marriage his porn usage was only one thing that I was jealous about. I started judging him very harshly and I kind of lost a respect for him. Respect is difficult to earn and easy to lose.  He crossed over the line of what you feel is a boundary for you by reaching out to other women for sexual pleasures. Whether its a romantic dinner, or a collection of porn, he is not making himself available to you as a lover and a friend by subtely rejecting you - although not with words by BY HIS ACTIONS.

 

Would you still want to have sex with him 4 times a week if he continued to do this? You got to see how his sexual preferences is changing your ability to ask for what you want, what you need sexually? He is drawing a very thin line of separation that can become a wall if you don't stomp it out as quickly as possible.  I understand you don't want to make too big a deal out of it because it can disrupt your whole world - so tread cautiously because you have to understand this could be the beginning of the end - you have to search within very closely to see if that is what you truly want.

 

In relationships of such close magnitude, as a marriage, people feed off of eachothers emotions. Emotions are just that, emotion. Not necessarily real . If he is treating you with a less consideration than you would like, what is the emotion you are feeling; then remove the emotion and see how this particular feeling is something you carry around with you all the time and it gets triggered. Then when you remove the old thought processes, look at the behavior again. Now you will be able to see it clearler and maybe make a better decision about what needs to be done and how.

 

 

I have killed a bee because they can sting  a fly, because its annoying ; a snake, because I am afraid of it; an unborn human (abortion) without too much guilt.....I am just as capable of violence as anyone else. As I get older and wiser I look at these choices and look around and see many other people doing exactly the same thing - it is in our nature to kill.  We are all sentinent beings and we all suffer with this affliction. Each person has their own reason and purpose for doing what they do, or don't do, we are all on a mission a journey of self discovery, I believe we are destined from the moment in time that time itself has evolved.

 

I don't like to judge, even though that is what I do. My judgement is based on how I want things to turn out and anything in the way should be looked at with a close point lens making sure it doesn't get in the way of the big plan.  This is where we lose consciousness and live in fear. When we live in a fear, we become frozen.  Anytime we are afraid, hurt, sad, mad, happy, its because we have chosen to be this......we can blame someone that crashes into our car while at a red light, but if one thinks about it, do you really think that person actually wanted to ram you???? It becomes a personal attack when we are scared vs. life and what it throws at us and not being shaken so much.

 

When given a choice to see a murder movie or one about our world, philosophy, psychology, health, I would rather see the latter.  Some would prefer the murder movie in a heartbeat. Does that make that person suddenly one that should be judged and ridiculed? What about the guy that wants to watch porn over having sex with his wife?  In all honesty, I would rather see people evolve more spiritually and use the intuition that we all have but shove aside because doing the right thing seems so much more unobtainable when so many are doing the wrong. Its all in our evolution and I believe some of us are more evolved spiritually and some are way advanced. I believe our youth, despite all the gore and narcissistic tendancies, are right on the mark. They are not listening to adults, politicians, government and you know what??? That is a good thing. 

 

What other people do to harm themselves and others, and take it as a personal attack , is taking that persons suffering and carrying it around with us all day.  Even if someone was to put my house on fire, and he proclaims hatred towards me, I am still not offended or at least my goal is not to be offended so that it takes away my ability to be compassionate towards others. If I am not compassionate towards my enemy, then how I can I claim to be a compassionate person ? (even if only to those that I find worthy?). I had to do a lot of forgiving when I saw the medical world destroy my mother. There was neglect, incompetencies beyond my imagination, my mother died because I was afraid of her health, so I took her to the hospital. She would have lived longer had I chosen to stay out of.

 

I contributed to the death of my mother because I thought I knew what was right for her.....I intervened where I shouldn't have. I had to give her one last chance because I felt guilty because I felt I never did enough for her. Now she is gone, like we will all be one day. So whether we die by the hand of someone else, or by our own, or by natural causes, death is as much a part of life as life. So it is natural to think about it and even have a inquisitiveness about it. I believe, wholeheartedly, that if we stop focusing on death, we can truly live.........since we know we will all be there one day.

 

Violence is innate in us. I agree. I still do not like to be startled or scared by monsters or human and it just seems so inhumane to watch someone else suffering, bleeding to death. My rational mind says it is not good, my innate humaness says "well, maybe its ok". I even have difficulty watching wild animals in the jungles tearing eachothers flesh apart for food...but something about that seems acceptable. Why? Could it be we are truly a species like in the wild? We are not too far removed from the flight or fight response are we?

 

 

 

 

I disagree that people are pron to violence.  I have yet to see a new born baby lash out in violence, it is a learned behavior.  We come into this world full of trust in those who supply us with what we need.  We learn behavior such as swatting flies, a child will swat flies because that is what he or she sees her parents do.  We kill bees because we have seen that happen.  I won't even get into how wrong it is to put abortion in the same catagory as swatting flies and killing bees.

 

Children hit, bite and throw fits out of frustration of the lack of communication skills.  Once those skills are developed, the behavior stops unless they learn it is the way of the world.

 

We are addicted to adrenaline that pumps through our bodies when we watch scary shows, when we take chances that we could get caught doing something we shouldn't and when we are fighting for control (at times, when debating on the boards).  Some people learn to control that feeling, knowing what is right vs what is wrong and can chose the right path over the feeling of adrenaline.  Some people always want that feeling and turn to drugs or other behaviors that can give them the feeling. 

 

People who turn to violence and call it natural isn't what anyone of us will accept, is it?  Yes horror movies show violence and how someone can watch a person (even in the world of Hollywood) is beyond me, but that doesn't make them bad people.  Acting out on them would make them bad people.  Watching porn is one thing, watching sadistic porn is just plain sick to me.  It is the difference between Alfred Hitchcock and Stephan King, again, it doesn't make them bad people unless they act out on it.

 

Also remember one of the first romance stories is in the bible.  King Solomon wrote Song of Solomon, a book of grown up love between a man and a woman.  His poetic writings are wonderful. Now I wouldn't put that anywhere near the same catagory as Porn but it does get pretty explicit.