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Topic : 01/09 False Confessions

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Created on : Friday, January 05, 2007, 10:49:03 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Would you ever confess to a crime you didn’t commit? What if the authorities, police you thought you could trust, said that you committed a crime and that they had evidence to prove it? Would you begin to doubt yourself, even though you knew you were innocent? Dr. Phil explores the psychology of false confessions. After a young man was shot dead at a local pizza parlor, Jon, 24, found himself behind bars. He then spent six months in jail before being exonerated from murder charges. Why did he confess to a crime he didn’t commit? What role did the police play in his confession? Learn how the truth finally came out. Then, experts say some ‘fess up for fame, others do so to escape torturous interrogations. No one knows the art of getting confessions better than 29-year veteran New York City Homicide Detective Louis Scarcello. Hear about his interrogations and decide for yourself if the tactics used by law enforcement cross the line into coercion. Then, Marty Tankleff was just 17 when he was convicted of murdering his parents -- based on what he says was a police-coerced false confession. Sixteen years have passed with Marty still behind bars, but the question remains: Did he do it? Share your thoughts here.

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January 10, 2007, 11:31 am PST

01/09 False Confessions

Quote From: wifeofacop

I am a police officers wife and would like to offer a different perspective.  I have not read very many of the posts but from the ones I have read it seems that many have gotten off the subject of false confessions and onto the subject of cop bashing.   This is not productive and this is what I feared would happen after watching the show yesterday.  These are two very different things.  False confessions do happen and they are a tragedy.  That being said, I believe that it is not so much a problem with bad cops as it is a problem with a broken system. 

 

Everyday police officers go out, putting themselves in danger.  They see the worst of the worst and are expected to make life altering decisions in split second timing.  Police officers come across to the public as bullies because they are trained that the minute they lose control over a situation, they are dead. They are trained this way to survive and even so every year we lose too many.  If a cop is shot the media hypes it up as a tragedy, but if a cops shoots first it is seen as excessive force.

The control factor cannot be turned off in a moments notice and an officer has to assume every situation is a dangerous one so-ya-they-sometimes come across as jerks.  Ask a police officers wife about control issues at home!  We put up with it (to a degree) because we know that is what keeps them safe.  Ultimately, it is all their negative characteristics that do keep them safe.  They are suspicious, cautious, controlling, unemotional and in charge.  I dont know about youbut I wouldnt want someone who may have to help me out in a crisis situation to be any other way...   

 

Dr Phil, if you are reading this .You hold the reigns of a very powerful medium and what was communicated to 40 million people yesterday was that you cannot trust the police.  You have planted an idea that this is the norm, rather than the exception to the rule.  This type of message will seriously affect each and every one of our officers, including my husband  as it continues to reinforce the negative stereotypes of law enforcement officers.  If you wanted to address this issue, it should have been addressed from the other side - from the side of the men and women who are trying to hold together a broken system.  They are not the villians in this.  They do what they can with the tools they have been given and their job gets more difficult everyday.  I am not defending "bad cops", but I would like to think that even these "bad cops" started out wanting to make a difference in their world.  Until you have experienced the life of an LEO (law enforcement officer) or the life of an LEO family you cannot understand how the system, the job, the circumstances can beat you and your family into the ground.  The vast majority of law enforcement officers get into this field because they honestly think they can make a positive difference in their worlds, but they quickly realize that they are not well thought of, their "hands are tied", and that nobody - not even their own bosses, not the system, not their buddy, has their back.  Consider the fact that our Police officers protect our rights and freedoms as much - and maybe even moreso than our soldiers oversees.  Would you ever consider doing a show on "bad soldiers"??  That is not politically correct, especially while they are engaged in a war.  Why is it ok for the police to be attacked when they are "at war" everyday - even during times of peace.   Would anybody walk up to a soldier in Afganistan and call him a jerk for rudely telling them to stop?  Would anyone say I pay your salary and I deserve respect? Im going to sue you for patting me down?

  While it is a tradegy that false confessions occur - I feel there would have been a better way to present this subject.  I felt it was very one-sided and did our guys no good service and will directly impact them, their significant others and their children.  I would be interested in seeing a show or series of shows on the real lives of police officers and their families as they work within this broken system..the marital stressors, job stressors, impact of shift work on family and children, PTSD, politics, depression and suicide among Police officers,  Show the system - as broken as it is - from the point of view of a cop.  Let people know - the reason a cop is sometimes rude with you is because he has no idea if you are about to shoot at him and he justs wants to go home to his family.  Help people understand how THEY can help an officer feel safe, what to do and not to do and why things are done as they are.  Ask cops what their biggest issues with the system are, ask them how it feels to be called an f........PIG and worse all day, everyday....  THIS would be a series to watch and THIS would be a very POSITIVE use of your very powerful medium and would help millions of Police officers and their families, and ultimatley if you help the cops, the system can only get better   Thank-you for your time,

Well, I am not going to advocate calling police officers "pigs" or any other derogatory term.  I do, however think the show was important to air.  The first inclination is blind trust in the police and, sadly, that is not warranted.  Police are human and have the same potential for faults as anyone else.  In this case, the interrogation tactics that lead to false confessions are a type of "cutting corners."  The problem is a lack of accountability; and that is systemic.  It doesn't matter whether they are in the majority or the minority.  Police officers who coerce false confessions should go to jail.
 
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January 10, 2007, 11:39 am PST

System "broken"?

Quote From: nanastolp

These false confessions would be not be so easy for the police to obtain if more people were educated on what their rights are.

 

People don't realise that they do not have to answer the police questions if they do not care to.  First they should ask if they are being charged with a crime at that time.  If not, they can get up and leave right there and then. 

 

If they are being charged with a crime, they still have the right to have a lawyer present.  Once this request is made the interrogation should come to an end right there.

 

Now if the police do not stop the questioning right there, then the person being questioned, should not say another word except for requesting that they want to leave or want a lawyer present.  If they are put into a position like this, as soon as possible, they should let their lawyer know what took place. 

 

It's surprising how many people do not know there legal rights when it comes to police interrogations. 

 

Stay strong & don't let them trample on your rights!

     "Wifeofacop" previously stated she believes it's not the "cops" that are at fault, but rather the "system is broken".  I asked her, what do you mean "broken" for in my view the system is as good as the people in it, and your explanation of "the system", that is the right not to answer and the right to get up and walk away if you are not charged with a crime, and the right to legal counsel if you are, seems like a very good "unbroken" system to me, and cops who deliberately choose to flaunt this system by not abiding by it are indeed, very wrong in their actions, and that just shows how it's done with "people" not "systems".  a system is absolutely NOTHING without people to populate it and bring it to life.
 
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January 10, 2007, 11:39 am PST

01/09 False Confessions

Quote From: opiniongirl

 

 

I am new (ish) here and was wondering if it might be listed or if anyone knew the name of the guest today that. I think, was a professor or had done some sort of research on false confessions?

 

Thanks!

OG

His name is Steven Drizin, the best expert on false confessions and wrongful convictions.
 
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January 10, 2007, 11:40 am PST

The police

Quote From: the_unknown

Well, I am not going to advocate calling police officers "pigs" or any other derogatory term.  I do, however think the show was important to air.  The first inclination is blind trust in the police and, sadly, that is not warranted.  Police are human and have the same potential for faults as anyone else.  In this case, the interrogation tactics that lead to false confessions are a type of "cutting corners."  The problem is a lack of accountability; and that is systemic.  It doesn't matter whether they are in the majority or the minority.  Police officers who coerce false confessions should go to jail.
The police aren't out to protect your rights when they question you.  An atty does advocate for your rights.  All they want to do is close a case and get the conviction, that's their job.  They'll do anything necessary to do it (sometimes its a good thing, sometimes, not so good).  I think cops are generally out for the well-being of the public.
 
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January 10, 2007, 11:47 am PST

01/09 False Confessions

Quote From: wingtai

 systems are only as good or bad as the people that use them, a system is nothing but the people that make it up.  what exactly does it mean "the system is broken"? are you actually trying to say that the "system" which you later in the letter state consists of "rights and freedoms" is "broken"?  If "rights and freedoms" exist to be defended, then these are part of "the system" and the rights and freedoms apply to EVERYONE EVEN ACCUSED PEOPLE.  so in this dr.phil episode, it looks like the attitude of CERTAIN detectives and cops toward the system is what is broken, not the system itself. 
as to the comment, would we dare to put criticism of "bad soldiers" in public view, yes we would and we do, the "bad" soldiers in Iraq at Abu Graib prison were held accountable and severly criticised for their bad actions, of course, we expect soldiers to do their job but everyone knows there are boundaries in that job also. 
now, i know what will happen, because I have made comments that are "critical" or I state that, yes we do criticise soldiers who go "bad", NOW I am one of the "bad guys" right? I must agree with the "bad guys" right?  that's how it works.

what breaks a system?
 
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January 10, 2007, 11:48 am PST

01/09 False Confessions

Quote From: wifeofacop

I am a police officers wife and would like to offer a different perspective.  I have not read very many of the posts but from the ones I have read it seems that many have gotten off the subject of false confessions and onto the subject of cop bashing.   This is not productive and this is what I feared would happen after watching the show yesterday.  These are two very different things.  False confessions do happen and they are a tragedy.  That being said, I believe that it is not so much a problem with bad cops as it is a problem with a broken system. 

 

Everyday police officers go out, putting themselves in danger.  They see the worst of the worst and are expected to make life altering decisions in split second timing.  Police officers come across to the public as bullies because they are trained that the minute they lose control over a situation, they are dead. They are trained this way to survive and even so every year we lose too many.  If a cop is shot the media hypes it up as a tragedy, but if a cops shoots first it is seen as excessive force.

The control factor cannot be turned off in a moments notice and an officer has to assume every situation is a dangerous one so-ya-they-sometimes come across as jerks.  Ask a police officers wife about control issues at home!  We put up with it (to a degree) because we know that is what keeps them safe.  Ultimately, it is all their negative characteristics that do keep them safe.  They are suspicious, cautious, controlling, unemotional and in charge.  I dont know about youbut I wouldnt want someone who may have to help me out in a crisis situation to be any other way...   

 

Dr Phil, if you are reading this .You hold the reigns of a very powerful medium and what was communicated to 40 million people yesterday was that you cannot trust the police.  You have planted an idea that this is the norm, rather than the exception to the rule.  This type of message will seriously affect each and every one of our officers, including my husband  as it continues to reinforce the negative stereotypes of law enforcement officers.  If you wanted to address this issue, it should have been addressed from the other side - from the side of the men and women who are trying to hold together a broken system.  They are not the villians in this.  They do what they can with the tools they have been given and their job gets more difficult everyday.  I am not defending "bad cops", but I would like to think that even these "bad cops" started out wanting to make a difference in their world.  Until you have experienced the life of an LEO (law enforcement officer) or the life of an LEO family you cannot understand how the system, the job, the circumstances can beat you and your family into the ground.  The vast majority of law enforcement officers get into this field because they honestly think they can make a positive difference in their worlds, but they quickly realize that they are not well thought of, their "hands are tied", and that nobody - not even their own bosses, not the system, not their buddy, has their back.  Consider the fact that our Police officers protect our rights and freedoms as much - and maybe even moreso than our soldiers oversees.  Would you ever consider doing a show on "bad soldiers"??  That is not politically correct, especially while they are engaged in a war.  Why is it ok for the police to be attacked when they are "at war" everyday - even during times of peace.   Would anybody walk up to a soldier in Afganistan and call him a jerk for rudely telling them to stop?  Would anyone say I pay your salary and I deserve respect? Im going to sue you for patting me down?

  While it is a tradegy that false confessions occur - I feel there would have been a better way to present this subject.  I felt it was very one-sided and did our guys no good service and will directly impact them, their significant others and their children.  I would be interested in seeing a show or series of shows on the real lives of police officers and their families as they work within this broken system..the marital stressors, job stressors, impact of shift work on family and children, PTSD, politics, depression and suicide among Police officers,  Show the system - as broken as it is - from the point of view of a cop.  Let people know - the reason a cop is sometimes rude with you is because he has no idea if you are about to shoot at him and he justs wants to go home to his family.  Help people understand how THEY can help an officer feel safe, what to do and not to do and why things are done as they are.  Ask cops what their biggest issues with the system are, ask them how it feels to be called an f........PIG and worse all day, everyday....  THIS would be a series to watch and THIS would be a very POSITIVE use of your very powerful medium and would help millions of Police officers and their families, and ultimatley if you help the cops, the system can only get better   Thank-you for your time,

 

Thank you so much for submitting this.  Very well put!

 
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January 10, 2007, 11:52 am PST

Bad Cops

Quote From: proudofmycop

As I sit here and read these posts my blood is boiling and my stomach is turning.  I happen to be engaged to a police man and I see what he deals with on a daily bases.  I have to say I could never do it!  Most people could not.  Police officers are very public figures so when one police officer does something wrong, makes a mistake or yes, even does something wrong intentionally it is all over the media.  The majority of police officers are not bad people.  They put their lives in danager to help keep society safe and what do they get in return?  A bunch of stereotypes placed on them that it seems the general public believes.  I would hope that some of you could open your eyes and realize that no one is perfect there are bad teachers, parents, psychologist and yes even police officers.  There is a very true theory that goes along with being a cop.  When you are in need of a police officer and need them to be there for you, you complain that they did not come fast enough but when you see them speeding past you to get to someone in need  you critisize them for driving recklessly.  Before you so easily group all police officers in one group and accuse them of being corupt stop and think for a second what they are up against everyday.  They put their lives in danger to serve and protect you! 

If the majority of cops were good, then there wouldn't be so many instances illustrating their corrupt antics.  And going by the rule of thumb that only a small percentage of criminals actually get caught, I have to believe that there are many instances where cops get away with their corruption.

 

And, yes there are bad teachers, parents, etc., but bad teachers don't put innocent people in jail to waste their lives away.  That's the real tragedy.

 
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January 10, 2007, 12:58 pm PST

the systems broken?

 Strangely enough, when people who commit crimes and misdemeanors cry foul, that it's "the system" that brought them to this ill-chosen crossroad in their lives, we are not so eager to excuse their bad behaviour (lying, cheating, defrauding, decieving and so on) because of this unfortunate circumstance, they are caught up in a "broken" system. They are still held accountable regardless of the "slings and arrows" of misfortune.   Why would we make an exception for cops, then, as supposed "victims of a broken system".  I believe there is a greater onus upon a police officer to uphold the "system" and laws.  Hey, maybe THAT is this much vaunted system we are all so eager to say is broken, that is, the system is this, "cops are above the law because they are cops" period, end of sentence. If that's the case, we better get busy and break it, the system, pretty quickly.
 
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January 10, 2007, 1:00 pm PST

Good of the public?

Quote From: gwarrior6

The police aren't out to protect your rights when they question you.  An atty does advocate for your rights.  All they want to do is close a case and get the conviction, that's their job.  They'll do anything necessary to do it (sometimes its a good thing, sometimes, not so good).  I think cops are generally out for the well-being of the public.

A conviction only serves the good of the public if the correct person is apprehended.  So their job (if done properly) is not simply to get some conviction.  If they go for the easy conviction of a "patsy" they do the public a disservice.  You see, it's the same "easy way out" you see in other professions.  But the damage done in this profession is severe.

 

 

 
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January 10, 2007, 1:13 pm PST

re broken systems etc

Thanks for all the replies...I enjoy the feedback

 

What I meant by "a broken system" is that I personally feel that our officers are "products" of the system, of their training, the expectations from the political higher-ups, as well as the fact that they are "outguned", have little to show for their work, are in a "losing war", and have "all eyes" on them all the time, they know they can lose a case if the smallest "i" isnt dotted; the burden of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" etc.   Not that they dont/cant contribute to the brokenness of the system and I agree - criminal cops go to jail - I dont think anyone would disagree! All I'm saying is - its the whole system - from the cops, to the lawyers, to the jury, to societal expectations, to the people who have "misused" or "worked" the system - its not just about over agressive cops.  Any place where there is power, there is the possibility of abuse of that power.   I guess the place where I get a little concerned is when "blanket" statements are made - for instance - If a teacher is accused of assulting a child - you DONT hear things like "All teachers are child abusers", people know and understand that this is not indicative of all teachers.  But what I hear all the time is "All cops are corrupt"  "All cops are jerks"  "All cops are powertrippers"  "All cops cheat on their wives"  and the list goes on and on. 

 

I am sorry for all of you who have had bad experiences with police officers and the judicial system.  I am thankful that my experience with police officers have been generally good.  I agree this is an issue that has to be addressed - but please - in a way that does not generalize so much.  Next time a cop gives you a ticket - thank him for doing what he does - help HIM realize that not everyone thinks he's a jerk and then maybe he wont act like one...(ok...I know its a stretch, but seriously...they deal with grumpy, unhappy, broken, depressed, abusive, angry, hostile, victimized people ALL DAY LONG....how would you feel at the end of your day...

 
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