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Topic : 01/17 Gender Identity Crisis

Number of Replies: 595
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Created on : Friday, January 12, 2007, 02:23:36 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Imagine waking up one morning and realizing that you’ve been living in the wrong body. That’s what Dr. Phil’s first guest says happened to her. Bernadette started dressing like a boy in high school. Now 37, she wants to be referred to as Cameron, and wants her breasts surgically removed. Cameron’s mom, Antoinette, and her aunts say she’s just angry, lost and confused. Will they ever accept her decision to become a man? Then, Sylvia’s 17-year-old daughter, Gwen, was murdered when a group of boys found out that she was one of them. The grieving mother weighs in on this important discussion. And, should a high school boy who dresses like a girl be allowed to use the girls’ bathroom? That’s the issue one Florida high school faced. The boy’s lawyer and two moms from the community engage in a heated debate. Plus, Jim and Linda’s 4-year-old daughter, Kayleigh, was born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, a condition where she looks like a female on the outside, but inside, she’s an underdeveloped male. Should the parents be forced to decide Kayleigh’s gender? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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hopeful
January 18, 2007, 2:27 am PST

Changing gender

Quote From: jade4953

First intensive psychological examination is necessary!  There should be no familial coercion and all aspects of the physical, emotional and societial aspects explored and best and worst scenerios explored.  
 First of all, being transgendered is NOT a mental condition!  It is a state of inner being, just as your being male/female is.  For the record, the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care DO insist on psychological therapy before we are allowed to start hormone therapy or get any sort of SRS surgery.  This is to make sure the person doesn't have a mental condition that can be better served by other means.  I have mental problems too, but they are totally outside my feelings of being trans.  I have been through the therapies and it has been decided that I truly am transgendered.  This is not a step to be taken lightly.  We don't just wake up one day and go, "Hey, I think I'll change sexes and get surgeries!"  It is something we've known all our lives, and have finally decided or found that we can do something about it.  When I learned that I could transition to male, which I'd always felt I was my entire life, it was the most liberating thing in my entire life!  Now I knew that I wasn't "crazy" about these feelings.  My mind totally cleared.  I am in the middle of transitioning under 4 doctors' care--2 therapists, 2 medical doctors--and am progressing extremely well.  Your point is valid, and we do these things before getting on hormones or having surgery.  It isn't something we take lightly.
 
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ecstatic
January 18, 2007, 2:47 am PST

Go for it, bro!

Quote From: cameronslfe

I want to thank all of you that have been supportive in watching the show today..:) It really makes me feel good to know that we are all here for each other no matter what, and yes that is true about god loving all of us NO MATTER WHAT.,,,,i WILL ALWAYS KNOW THIS..;) I appreciate all of the wonderful thoughts and words of wisdom that have been put on this topic...I do believe we all have a purpose in life  to do what we want to do and be the person we want to be wether that is  lesbian, gay, transexual or straight we all are human and this is our right...Thanx again....xoxo cameron

 I am an intersexed gay FTM transman, and also a Wiccan Minister and Elder.  I totally support you!  I'm just about to start T next week.  I've been under mental health care since 1991, and was diagnosed as trans at the same time.  I didn't know I could transition until last Sept.  I just completed the 3 month waiting period with the required therapies.  I plan on having top and phallo bottom surgery starting next year.  You're no more crazy than I am.  What you need is more support, not bible bashing.  I do advise you to start T before you get top surgery, and to follow the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care.  They exist to protect us all.  It was my understanding one has to live as a man for at least a year before getting top surgery, and be seen by at least 2 therapists during that time.  Don't rush it--it's really tempting when you realize you can transition.  And before you start using the men's room, make sure you "pass" first as a man.  Otherwise you're setting yourself up for violence and problems.  From what I saw of you today, you don't pass--yet.  Getting on T will change that.  I pass much of the time right now.  Just be careful and be well.  And don't let anyone tell you you can't transition or you shouldn't.  Just because Dr. Phil said you're not ready doesn't mean much.  He's not a gender specialist, just a regular therapist.  I suggest you get more involved with online trans groups like on Yahoogroups and such, and get involved with the trans community near you.  It'll make a huge difference, believe me!  Don't let your family coerce you out of this.  Your story matches the rest of ours.  Take it easy and stay strong.  If the family doesn't acdept you, then maybe you need to distance yourself from them.  Mine didn't either, and I cut ties with them.  Best thing I ever did. You have friends out here going through the same things!

--Reki
 
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frustrated
January 18, 2007, 3:41 am PST

Sin, huh?

Quote From: mex_y_can

but disease, death, genetic disorders... they are the result of SIN, not God's doing.

 

Dr. Phil made a point of saying we need to accept people for who they are... how about these people accepting who they are themselves and being who they were meant and created to be girls if you're born a girl, guys if you're born a guy?!?  For the parents of the little four year old, my heart and prayers surely goes out to you.  I guess if I knew this medical problem existed in my family history, I'd be making a personal CHOICE not to have children, than to run the risk of what you are going through... sadly )c;

 

 

 What about those of us not born with Original Sin?  As in the Pagans and those not of your religion?  What about the "other people" that Cain went out and found in the land of Nod?  Where did they come from?  I thought only he, Abel, Adam, and Eve existed then.  Or do you feel, as this one guy tried arguing, that Cain married his sister?  Isn't that another sin?  Or do you think incest is okay?

I was born intersexed, like the child at the end of the show.  You say we should just accept ourselves the way we were born--how about that child?  This child was born intersexed--neither boy nor girl but both.  You don't address this issue but tell transpeople to "just live with it".  What is she/he supposed to do and identify with?  Or me, for that matter?  This isn't an issue of knowing about it before birth--a lot of birth defects don't show up before birth.  Should the mother have aborted this child?  What about the mother's beliefs and views of children.  Once again, someone here who passes judgment on someone else when the matter is a personal one and not for them to decide.  You're an extremely selfish person indeed.
 
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January 18, 2007, 3:52 am PST

I support you

Quote From: happymomx4

And I would like to explain a few things.  She could never physcially become a boy because her condition is such that she cannot absorb the male hormone.  If she could have, she would have been a boy in utero... born a boy, etc.  Her behavior suggests strongly to me that she indeed FEELS like a boy.  So she's not ever going to make any sort of transition other than act like a boy, refers to herself as a boy and unfortunately will be a very curvy woman as she grows.  There will be nothing she can do about it.  It's not cut and dried.  God made a MAN or a WOMAN.... that's a joke.  Then what is my daughter?  She has been referred to by the medical profession as a "freak" or an "it".  What am I supposed to make of that?  She is absolutely beautiful and outgoing child.  My issue is how do I keep her happy?  That is my only goal in my life.  If I can face my maker at the end of my life and say that I did right by my kids - then I will feel i've done what I was put on this Earth to do.

 

It's not a sexual issue... she's only 4!  What do you bible thumpers make of this?

 

BTW. Jamie Lee Curtis was born with this same condition as was Pamela Guildy (regular actress on CSI - I have spoken to her on many ocassions.)

 It sounds like you have done some homework about this issue.

I was born intersexed both inwardly and outwardly.  My adoptive mother insisted on just getting a girl, and so they operated on me to turn me into one.  This was back in 1959.  Only they didn't check the inside for anything.  I grew up confused and hating what they were trying to force me to be, something I wasn't.  I always identified as male, even at a younger age than your little one.  Everyone tried to force me to be a "fru-fru" girl.  I rebelled and hated this.  I didn't understand what was going on until I was 32, and when I told my folks they labeled me a pervert and a freak because I was also a gay transman.  I waited until after Ma died to start transitioniing to male.  I know now that I should've followed my gut and done so at age 18 when able to legally.

Don't let these jerks and religious nuts label you or upset you.  I'd say, support your child in whichever way she/he decides to go.  Let your child decide which is right.  Don't judge and don't condemn--and for heaven's sake, don't give her any sexual reassignment surgery!  That's what happened to me and it was the WRONG choice!  Now I have to go through it all again as an adult of nearly 50.  I use the duel referal to your child so as to not label the child as male or female, not out of disrespect.  Feel free to write to me if you like.
 
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chillin'
January 18, 2007, 4:10 am PST

Essentially correct but...

Quote From: philfan2007

I have been working with the transgender community for 5+ years, have attended many transgender events as well as several trangender leadership/media training sessions.

 

I am not shocked by the lack of educated comments here, as this is par for the coarse where gender disphoria issues are concerned. What shocks and concerns me is the grand scale lack of openminded communication and willingness to learn about those who were born different or have grown to feel their core gender does not fit that of what society has deemed as the 'norm'.

It is a very quick and simple remedy to these issues to close our eyes, pretend everyone in the world who is different from us, lives a unique lifestyle or makes different choices for THEIR lifepath is mentally unstable or a 'pervert'. This is a very closed minded, confused and scared way to respond to others. It is this very same mind set that gives way to poor relationships between races, genders and human beings as a whole.

 

Open you minds and understand that though you can burry your heads in the sand, the issues will not go away and the trans community has been, is and will continue to be an active part of our communities as a whole.

 

Things you may not know about the transgendered:

-Each transgender individual is required to attend several years of theropy with a professional who has been trained in transender issues and have appropriate documents signed and in hand before visiting a heath professional seeking hormone theropy or they will be denied the treatment. This is not an overnight decision.

 

-All those seeking to change their name legally to a cross gender name is required to seek legal counceling and present valid documents before a judge to prove their name chance is a legal and valid step on their path to a new life as the opposite gender or they will be denied this service. This is not an overnight decision.

 

-Many trans people choose not to proceed with the highly costly reassignment surgeries currently available to the trans community. They simply live their daily lives in a constant acting a role, performing for society's sake. They themselves are happy, productive people who often feel the need to play the roles that society has required of them in order to 'fit in'.

 

-All transgender individuals will need to remain on hormone theropy for the rest of their lives in order to maintain their new identity. This is a lifelong decision and is not something to be taken lightly.

 

Perhaps this person has not followed the above mentioned steps and perhaps she is not certain if this is the lifepath she is meant to take, but this is also not our choice to make for her.

 

Thank you for your time

 One needs only go through a 3 month waiting period and have 12 hours or the equivalent of gender therapy in order to get on hormones.  I'm not sure where you got your information, but this is what I had to do and jells with all the info I learned when I started to transition back in Sept. 06. One also must have a letter or report from the therapist saying that the person is ready to progress to the next step.

One can change one's name anytime one wishes for any reason.  I have done this 5 times for different reasons and never had to have any sort of counselling.  I recently asked the courthouse about this very issue and they said there was no problem doing it.  Changing the gender markers on documents is a different matter and varies from state to state.

The main reason many transpeople don't go through SRS is due to the cost alone.  Medical insurance refuses to pay for this, claiming it's experimental" and the issue is a mental health, not surgical one.  These insurance companies are in denial and don't know what the trans doctors and patients know as facts.  Being trans is not a mental condition.

If a person choses to stop HRT, they will generally retain the changes they acquired physically.  FTM will retain their deep voices and hairier bodies.  What might change back is the fat to muscle ratio.  Hormones can only change the body so much, and surgery is a viable option to further the transition.

The tranpeople I know, and there's many of them, are very unhappy and frustrated with the roles assigned to them at birth.  That's why we have such a high number of mental health issues and suicides.

Please get your information straight.
 
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January 18, 2007, 4:22 am PST

You are incorrect

Quote From: shetypes

I'd hope we learned to not blame a higher power for our mistakes?  All the household cleaning chemicals alone is outrageous.  Most water is chemically treated, bottled water was tested and found not as safe as most faucet water?  Food filled with color, flavors? Medications scripted out for everything from in grown toe nails to sleeping aids? I don't think they really know all the effects of a woman taking birth control pills over time to the future generations?  I know we minimzed alot of polution but the effects is still with us.  I think the gene pool is made up from 4 generations on each side?  That is alot of potential for what could be a problem if both parents

carry samy links to problems to thier children?

 

The Bathroom?  Boys = male gender  Girls = female gender !  It is about the gender physically!

We cannot risk some court battle that ends up making bathrooms not private to genders! 

 

How we live, how the generations of dumping oils and chemicals in our ground made mistakes,

diets, medications and life style made mistakes.  Now the children are paying for it.

thats not Gods fault, it ours.

 Gender dysphoria has absolutely nothing to do with pollution and such.  You should learn more about this issue rather than making assumptions.  I was born intersexed and trans back in the 1950s.  What major pollution was around then?

The issue is not about bathrooms.  Places can do what we do at home and have gender neutral bathrooms such as Target has here.  They have gender oriented ones, and then a neutral one which is also more handicapped friendly and family friendly.  Try lugging a baby in a carrier/rocker into a standard bathroom stall and see how easy it is!  I pass part of the time right now before starting T next week, and I use the bathroom most appropriate for the way I'm presenting.  If the place looks like one I won't have any problems in, I use that one.  Once I am on T for a while and pass better, I'll strictly use the men's.

For that matter, what are the interesexed supposed to use?  Like me and that little one on the show?  We need gender neutral bathrooms everywhere in addition to the segregated ones.  This issue has been all over the trans oriented boards for ages.
 
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January 18, 2007, 4:30 am PST

beliefs v. actual medical condition

Quote From: tali320166

I  feel that those who are negatively repsonding to those who have a belief in God and Jesus and view his teachings in a certain manner, are being just as judgemental as those they are criticizing.  They have just as much right to express their beliefs and try to transform the world to match their beliefs as those who have a different belief about God and Jesus.  I believe that there is black and white and then there is the gray that most of us live in.  This topic more than some demonstrates that.  As agry as I am at my ex for the years of lies and it's consquences for me and my children, I can recognize that ,he (now she)as we, are all trying the best that we can to find meaning and fulfullment in our lives.
     i agree that no one should force their beliefs on anyone.  but transsexual people have an actual medically recognized condition.  religious zealots only have their beliefs.  to call the two equal is akin to saying that since people have diabetes, unicorns also exist.
 
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January 18, 2007, 4:43 am PST

Please watch the show again

Quote From: faith4god

I am a Christian and must say that I agree with Cameron's aunt on what she was saying on tv about  Cameron needing to accept Christ as her savior,  but I must disagree with the fact of her saying that it would  change Cameron's need to feel that she wants to remove her breasts.

Honestly my heart when to each and everyone on the show. It must be so hard for someone to grow up feeling they are in the wrong body. I felt that Cameron had taken the right path. She has looked in to this for a long time and felt this way for a long time.

As a mom who my heart went out to Cameron's mother but I think she should support Cameron. She has said how she feels what Cameron is doing is wrong, but still she need to be there to help Cameron during this hard time. People need their family esp during hart times.

I have seen a lot of shows on tv about gender identity disorder and been very intersted in learning what I could about it for years esp since the famous Brandon Teena case which the movie "Boys Don't Cry" was about. I read the book as a teen and I felt awful for Brandon Teena and what happened to her and I wanted to understand what she was going through. This is a proven medical disorder & not something people make up or just wake up one morning and say, "Oh I want to be a boy." This is something people struggle with all the time.

I just want everyone on the show to know that I will keep them in my prayers. It took a lot of courage to be on the show and share something so personal with the world.
 Cameron doesn't need "god" in his life unless he chooses to.  I'm a Wiccan and I do just fine without the christian god.  For the record, he said he was religious and has already done this as part of his spirituality.  It was the relatives that insisted he wasn't "saved", not Cameron.

Having top surgery is a major step for either type of transperson.  Look at it this way--if you had male organs and felt they were totally against your gender, wouldn't you want to remove them and sculpt your body into a more feminine shape?  The same thing goes for transpeople.  I hate mine.  They get in the way, they're a constant reminder of the body I'm still stuck in, they constantly remind me that I'm in the wrong body.  If you had a tumor, wouldn't you want to remove it?  Or an extra limb?  Same for us transpeople.  What does a man need with female breasts?  Many guys have "man boobs" and get them removed or reduced.  It's just not a part of being male.  Same for Cameron and myself.

At least you try to understand us transpeople and don't judge us like so many others do.
 
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January 18, 2007, 4:44 am PST

nothing out of the ordinary huh?

Quote From: jesusislord

God created us all!  if you are born a girl thats what you are. if you are born a boy then thats what you are.  God does not make mistakes..   Anyone  think they should be another sex then  the way they were born. Needs help and need Jesus.  praying for people like this.
i know this has already been addressed on this board, but i just cant help but reiterate.

first and foremost, i already HAVE Jesus.  i dont need to find him, he resides with me and through me and in me, and guess what?  i am a transsexual man!  much like Cameron.

do you really think that people with medical conditions should not be treated?  people with diabetes should not receive insulin?  people born with physical birth defects should not be allowed to have them surgically corrected?  why should it make a difference all of a sudden if the birth defect has to do with one's physical sex characteristics?  your logic is convoluted at best.
 
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January 18, 2007, 4:54 am PST

Absolutely!

Quote From: janiendunn

I'd like to comment on the "I don't believe God created any junk." posting. It's true, he didn't create junk, just as he created us transfolk according to his 'plan'. We were all BORN this way! If he created us this way, how could you possibly call us junk? And don't start quoting the bible, because we were included in the bible as accepted individuals; children of God. Just look for all of the references to eunuchs, and you'll see that they were never 'outlawed' by the bible. You might try to respond that eunuchs only served a certain function in early society as caretakers  to royalty, but this is a misconception, propagated by the church. Eunuchs have been around since early history and those eunuchs were actually male-to-female transsexuals. This fact is conveniently left out of the teachings of the church, just as other early facts were misconstrued or left out for whatever purpose suited their needs at the time.

 

We were born this way. It is a proven fact that male-to-female transsexuals have female brains. When researchers in the Netherlands dissected the brains of men and women, they discovered that the hypothalmus, and area of the brain that is thought to be the origin of sexuality, is 50% bigger in men than in women, and 60% bigger in non-transgendered men, compared to male-to-female transgendered individuals. The thought for years was that this was caused by the hormones that transwomen take, but the researchers then got a sample brain of a transwoman who had never been on female hormones. Her hypothalmus was the same size as the previous brains that they had dissected.

 

This means people are 'hard-wired' to be either female or male right from birth. For transsexuals, it's thought that a hormonal unbalance in the womb is responsible for the mismatch between body and brain. Our situation seemed to have been understood centuries ago, but in western culture, the church manipulated facts for their own purpose. The result is a society that knows almost nothing about transgendered people, and fears and despises us for who we are. They think it's a 'choice'.

 

This is not a choice for transgendered people. We are born this way.

 

One of the postings on this site referred to a counselor who 'once' had a transgendered person who made a mistake. You CANNOT turn this into a blanket statement, thus proving your point that we are just confused, on drugs, or angry at our parents. That is blatent nonsense. ONE patient proves your point? It sounds like you are the one who's confused. The fact is, thousands upon thousands of us transition from our birth gender to the opposite gender, and are overjoyed with the results.

 

 

 Thank you for your well informed post!

I wish to address the closing comments here.  I was diagnosed as trans 16 years ago but didn't know about transitioning.  I only learned I could a few months ago.  I have had mental health care off and on for all of that time, and consistantly for the last 3 years.  My therapist at present is well educated in transpeople.  So is her successor (she's pregnant) that I will be with in a couple of weeks.  I went to the required gender therapist during my 3 month waiting period for getting on T, and she was well educated too about the issue.

And let me tell you, in just these past 4 months I've been transitioning, I've never felt better. I know what was going on all this time.  I'm clearer headed than ever before, and I was pretty well to begin with.  I am ecstatic about transitioning!  I've never felt better!  Goddess only knows how good I'll feel when I complete my journey.  I know the pros and cons and I never look back.  For the first time in my life I'm happy and at peace with myself.  I no longer look in the mirror and cringe.  I now see a good-looking dude who's only going to get better looking.

Amen to you!  (And I'm a Pagan!)
 
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