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Topic : 02/09 Sign on the Line!

Number of Replies: 399
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Created on : Friday, February 02, 2007, 03:14:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Marriage contracts are not only for the rich and famous. More and more couples ask each other to sign on the line -- sometimes when they've already been married for years! Leah says her husband of four years, Gary, wants her to sign a postnuptial agreement that says everything they have is his. Gary says his greatest fear is Leah taking half his assets, and she deserves nothing but her clothes, her ring and her car. Does Gary love his money more than he loves his wife? Then, Darlene says her estranged husband, Bobby, is the cheapest, most selfish man she has ever met. Bobby says Darlene has already left him twice, and he can't trust her. He refuses to get back together unless Darlene signs a "quit claim" and agrees to relinquish what he says are his assets. Darlene is outraged by Bobby's actions and says she can't trust him. Is she right to think this could be a set-up? Can Bobby and Darlene come to terms and reconcile their relationship? In a marriage, is it ever right to draw a line and say, "What's mine is mine"? Find out what Dr. Phil thinks and share your thoughts here.

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February 7, 2007, 9:12 am CST

Little question

I've got a question, I feel kind of ignorant but...

What exactly is a "quit claim" ?

Thanks:)

 
February 7, 2007, 11:31 am CST

02/09 Sign on the Line!

Pre nuptials are a preview window to the future marriage.  If the prenuptial isn't equal if reversed, then someone is about to be robbed.

 

I quit reading the posts - when I realized that almost all the posted prenuptials were unreasonable and unfair.  The real question is "Why would any man or woman be so desperate to get married that they are willing to sign away the family farm and their soul to a blatant con artist." 

 
February 7, 2007, 12:48 pm CST

02/09 Sign on the Line!

Quote From: sharann11

I thank you for your reply. 

On Monday I went to a counseling session and have another one scheduled for this coming Monday.  I'm not sure how many I can attend as you know they are very pricey.  I forced myself to go to my neighbors home for a Super Bowl party on Sunday and won the last football pool.  That gave me enough cash to have 2 sessions.  Of course my insurance will reimbursement me but counselors want their money up front and I don't blame them.  Insurance Companies take so long to reimburse these people.  I sent an email to my husband asking that he attend counseling and went as far as to wording it like this. . .(we cannot fix this marriage without help.  Our marriage continues to spiral downward and perhaps I am wrong in my way of thinking but if so I would like a professional to tell us so.  I propose to you that we attend at least a weekly session to save our marriage.)  His reply to me was, I do not need anyone to tell me that divorce is the answer.  With a broken heart and all the courage that I could find, I made an appointment with a divorce attorney.  On February 13, I will be in the office of an attorney.  I am so scared, sick to my stomach and continue  not be able to eat.  My husband and I moved to Florida two years ago to further his advancement in the corporate world.  My fear is being here in Florida while my support system is in California.  I have my families support but it's so hard being away from my family while going through this ordeal.  I continue to spend most my days in the comfort of my bedroom.  My husband has now caused a very different situation that I have never had to handle.  Mike had me pick out a computer and a new  purse plus a few other items for Christmas.  After I chose what I wanted for Christmas online, he purchased the items and had them delivered to our home for Christmas and it was for my birthday (which was around Christmas.)   Now he has filed a fraud report with American Express saying he never authorized these purchases.  I found out about this when my son's insurance was canceled.  I received an email stating that they had canceled my son's insurance for non-payment.  I called right away because his insurance premium was put on my husband's American Express Card by my husband.  When he got mad at me, he called AMX and said that the payments he had been making to the insurance company from back in September 2006 (monthly payments) were not authorized.  American Express reversed the charge while under investigation.  That caused my son's insurance to be canceled.  What kind of person would do this?  He can be so sweet, like offering to pay for his car insurance while he attends college and works 30 hours a week for a Pet Store.  Then when he gets mad at me he takes it out on whatever will cause me the most pain, like my son or daughter.  Needless to say I helped my son ask for a higher limit on his credit card, which was granted and then had the charges put on my son's credit card.  Now my son is in debt with the $1335.00 for last years premium and has to come up with money for the next 6 months premium.  All to hurt me. . .  Last September my daughter was married to a nice man.  My husband, being the sweetie he can be, offered to give the kids their honeymoon.  It did not cost him anything as he had enough frequent flyer miles and American Express points to cover the cost of their honeymoon.  One week before they were to be married, my husband mad at me, threatened to take the kids honeymoon away as revenge.  One week before they are to wed. . .I kept it a secret for several days thinking Mike would change his mind.  When it appeared he was not changing I had to inform the kids.  My daughter cried and cried and could not figure out why he was doing this to them.  After al they never asked for him to give them their honeymoon.  I tried to explain it wasn't them he wanted to hurt but it was I.  The end result was he got so much pressure from all my family and his friends that he did not cancel the honeymoon trip.  You see he can be so generous and then so hateful it's so confusing.  He offered $10,000.00 to help pay for my daughters wedding as she has no relationship with her own father.  I was so proud of my self and my family for all pitching in and giving my daughter the wedding of her dreams on my small budget.    The night before the wedding he was upset with me and stole my car full of wedding things I needed for the reception and my cell phone.  This was so stressful. . .I had obviously no wedding planner, I was the wedding planner and now no car or cell phone for people to get in touch with me to coordinate that special wedding day.  My sister brought me a old Verizon phone which I had my number transferred too and she brought me her car.  I ended up on the cell phone begging my husband to come back with the car, taking all the blame for his getting mad at me, just to get the car with all the wedding items back.  My pictures of me in my daughters wedding book shows a woman stressed, swollen eyes and trying desperately to smile.  The Bride was beautiful.  Meanwhile, my husband has purchased 3 cars for his 17 year old, a 65 mustang he purchased in Canada, had shipped to the US and lost money on when Matt decided he would rather have a new Mustang.  Matt was purchased a new 2005 Mustang and recently decided he needed a 4 wheel drive because he will be attending the University of Colorado and living on campus.   So my husband spent $35,000.00 on a new 2007 Dodge 4 x 4 pick up for his son.   That's just one son, he has another son who now has had a new Jeep Wrangle 4 x 4 and then decided his girlfriend would not ride in it because it did not have air conditioning and she didn't like the top off because it messed up her hair.  So my husband bullied me into giving him my 2 year old Infinity I.  Meanwhile, the nice Mike took my daughter shopping for a car.  My daughter only wanted him to come with her because he is so good at negotiating and she was intimated by salesman.  They found a Nissan Xterra, very nice car and he even gave her $7,000.00 to help lower her monthly payments.  She was so grateful and excited about getting a new car.  AM I WRONG FOR FEELING SAD FOR MY KIDS. . .AS THEY WATCH HIS CHILDREN RECEIVE ALL THESE EXPENSIVE GREAT GIFTS AND CARS WHILE MINE ARE HELPED BUT NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE EXTENT OF HIS CHILDREN.  Of course his children have told me that they are the fruit of their father's loins and my children and I are ungrateful for what their father has done for us.  IS THIS NOT OUR MONEY?  I am co-signer on a $250,000.00 line of credit which my husband has been purchasing all these nice gifts for his kids as well as mine.  I have no control over this line of credit and no control over how much he spends on his kids.  AM I UNGRATEFUL?  DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO FEEL LIKE THINGS SHOULD BE AS FAIR AS POSSIBLE DEPENDING ON EACH CHILDS SITUATION.   Why was it wrong for me to think they should first have consulted me before buying expensive gifts for any of the kids?  Why was it wrong for me to think they should have sold the Mustang and taken that money and purchased a 4 x 4 pickup for college?  His children think I am nuts for my way of thinking.  Now my husband wants to take his son Matt and Matt's friend on a cruise before he goes off to college, his other son was invited but cannot attend with school, work and a girlfriend.  My children were not invited.  Even if they do not know about the trip, it is so hurtful to me.  The nice husband did purchase my son a pick up which was wrecked in an auto accident.  That's another story for another day. 

I'm glad to hear you are going for counselling and seeing an attorney.  Both will give much needed and helpful advice.  Don't worry about being in Florida while your supports are in California - it's only a phone call away.  And if things get ugly, it's only a plane ride away. 

 

It sounds to me like Mike is "nice" only when it benefits him in some way.  It's probably a game he plays so that he can hold the prize for awhile and then take it away, ie. the American Express episodes with your gift and son's insurance.  Insane!  My heart really went out to you with him taking the car before your daughter's wedding day and negating on the honeymoon.  He has worse temper tantrums than a two year old!  He is obviously using them to hurt you when he can't get his way!  It's a form of child abuse, only they're adults.  I would stop this right now by telling your kids he won't be involved with them anymore because he is hurting you and them by his behaviour.  He isn't a good example for your kids of what a husband should be like anyway.

 

As for all this spending on cars and future cruises, if this money is coming out of a joint credit line, that means that you're paying as well and this needs to be stopped.  If he wants to buy his kids things, he should pay for them himself, but likewise you'll need to keep your end of the bargain for your own kids.  Kids won't like it, but it's better they know the score than to be promised things and then taken away, ie. the insurance for your son.  I have heard of so many stories where spouses or parents use money as a tool for power.  Of course, we all need money, and given the right circumstances, lots of money is sure a lot of fun (nice cars, homes, vacations, etc).  Unfortunately, in your case it comes with a big price tag as Mike is using his wealth against you, but he isn't willing to share as the credit line is in both your names and his kids are getting the better deal out of it.  He's even so cheap he didn't have to pay for the honeymoon as he used his flyer points, however, I'll give him a pat on the back for the $10,000 he spent on the wedding.  I would bet it was still in his best interest somehow (took it out of the credit line, wrote it off, etc), or simply saved face with family.

 

I apologize if I sound bitter.  I have three kids myself, all adults, with a daughter getting married in April.  If my husband acted like yours, I would go it alone, even though he is the father.  Let his actions speak for themselves and make sure your kids understand that he's responsible for his own actions, and that he should find other ways to deal with what upsets him other than lashing out at you or your kids.  That is what responsible people do. 

 

I hope things work out well for you.  It sounds like you are reaching out for the help you need, and you deserve it!  Even though things seem scary for you right now, I feel you have the courage to deal with this.  Try to keep your health up though, especially if you have trouble eating.  Get some food supplements like Boost or Ensure.  It comes in a can in a liquid form and filled with vitamins and such.  A person can always think more clearly if you feel good physically. 

 

Take care   .   .    . 

 

 

 
February 7, 2007, 1:39 pm CST

Good advice!

Quote From: canuckchick

I'm glad to hear you are going for counselling and seeing an attorney.  Both will give much needed and helpful advice.  Don't worry about being in Florida while your supports are in California - it's only a phone call away.  And if things get ugly, it's only a plane ride away. 

 

It sounds to me like Mike is "nice" only when it benefits him in some way.  It's probably a game he plays so that he can hold the prize for awhile and then take it away, ie. the American Express episodes with your gift and son's insurance.  Insane!  My heart really went out to you with him taking the car before your daughter's wedding day and negating on the honeymoon.  He has worse temper tantrums than a two year old!  He is obviously using them to hurt you when he can't get his way!  It's a form of child abuse, only they're adults.  I would stop this right now by telling your kids he won't be involved with them anymore because he is hurting you and them by his behaviour.  He isn't a good example for your kids of what a husband should be like anyway.

 

As for all this spending on cars and future cruises, if this money is coming out of a joint credit line, that means that you're paying as well and this needs to be stopped.  If he wants to buy his kids things, he should pay for them himself, but likewise you'll need to keep your end of the bargain for your own kids.  Kids won't like it, but it's better they know the score than to be promised things and then taken away, ie. the insurance for your son.  I have heard of so many stories where spouses or parents use money as a tool for power.  Of course, we all need money, and given the right circumstances, lots of money is sure a lot of fun (nice cars, homes, vacations, etc).  Unfortunately, in your case it comes with a big price tag as Mike is using his wealth against you, but he isn't willing to share as the credit line is in both your names and his kids are getting the better deal out of it.  He's even so cheap he didn't have to pay for the honeymoon as he used his flyer points, however, I'll give him a pat on the back for the $10,000 he spent on the wedding.  I would bet it was still in his best interest somehow (took it out of the credit line, wrote it off, etc), or simply saved face with family.

 

I apologize if I sound bitter.  I have three kids myself, all adults, with a daughter getting married in April.  If my husband acted like yours, I would go it alone, even though he is the father.  Let his actions speak for themselves and make sure your kids understand that he's responsible for his own actions, and that he should find other ways to deal with what upsets him other than lashing out at you or your kids.  That is what responsible people do. 

 

I hope things work out well for you.  It sounds like you are reaching out for the help you need, and you deserve it!  Even though things seem scary for you right now, I feel you have the courage to deal with this.  Try to keep your health up though, especially if you have trouble eating.  Get some food supplements like Boost or Ensure.  It comes in a can in a liquid form and filled with vitamins and such.  A person can always think more clearly if you feel good physically. 

 

Take care   .   .    . 

 

 

Darlene here.  I was on this show with my husband Bobby.  I just want to say that I wanted to stand up and applaud when I read this post! Canuckchick gave great advice. It's so hard to see things clearly when we are embroiled in a confusing situation. Believe me, I can relate. Don't be afraid to ask for advice or help. Keep people around you who truly love and care for you..it was difficult for me to go on the show, and talk about my personal situation-I know there are many others in similiar circumstances. 
 
February 7, 2007, 3:04 pm CST

02/09 Sign on the Line!

I can't belevie that people that are married  want to sign a paper saying who gets what. if they don't work out. Thats so crazy!!  When you get married, you get married because you truly love each other and willing to stick together in good and bad times.
 
February 8, 2007, 7:10 am CST

quit claim deed ??????????

Quote From: prettyinred

I've got a question, I feel kind of ignorant but...

What exactly is a "quit claim" ?

Thanks:)

 Don't feel bad, I'm in the same situation as you. I too do not know what a 'quit claim deed' is all about & would like to know all about it.  Recently my companion has said that he wants to protect me in the event that something should happen to him. He sent a quit claim deed to his son to sign. He explained to me that if something would happen to him that I would be able to live in the house as long as I want for free, I would just have to pay utilities & taxes. HIs son would be the owner & not charge me anything or kick me out for any reason.  This would be going against his last wishes. He says he trusts his son & I can too. So, if he really loves me & wants to protect me after he's gone then shouldn't I be the one to sign the quit claim deed somewhere too?  What if his son gets jealous of me, which has already happened with his daughter going to the mother & having the mother ask the father "What are you leaving your son & daughter?", & he decides to sell the house out from under me, what then?  How do I REALLY protect myself from losing what has been my home for a long time if & when a terrible event were to occur to my life partner?  I smell a rat !
 
February 8, 2007, 9:15 am CST

Consult an Attorney

Quote From: wnglydplt

 Don't feel bad, I'm in the same situation as you. I too do not know what a 'quit claim deed' is all about & would like to know all about it.  Recently my companion has said that he wants to protect me in the event that something should happen to him. He sent a quit claim deed to his son to sign. He explained to me that if something would happen to him that I would be able to live in the house as long as I want for free, I would just have to pay utilities & taxes. HIs son would be the owner & not charge me anything or kick me out for any reason.  This would be going against his last wishes. He says he trusts his son & I can too. So, if he really loves me & wants to protect me after he's gone then shouldn't I be the one to sign the quit claim deed somewhere too?  What if his son gets jealous of me, which has already happened with his daughter going to the mother & having the mother ask the father "What are you leaving your son & daughter?", & he decides to sell the house out from under me, what then?  How do I REALLY protect myself from losing what has been my home for a long time if & when a terrible event were to occur to my life partner?  I smell a rat !

A person who signs a 'quit claim' is effectively 'quitting' all past, present, and future claim to any portion of a property or business...in effect, if you choose to sign such a deed, you have no more right to live in your house, or share in equity of anything than a STRANGER ON THE STREET.  A quit claim is very different than a prenup, postnup, or other similiar document. If your companion's son signs a quit claim, he has no further claim to the house [ever].  Personally, I hope you consult an attorney ASAP. It sounds as though he is transferring FULL OWNERSHIP of the home you live in to his son, and that the son may 'allow' you to live in it for your lifetime [whoever OWNS the house will decide who lives in it.]..it sure doesn't sound like your companion's son is signing a 'quit claim' to protect you.  It sounds like ownership is being transferred to PROTECT the SON. I think you are getting tricked, and told that you are being protected.  BUT, I'm not sure what kind of document your companion has asked his son to sign, nor what he expects you to sign.  If his son IS signing a  quit claim, then his son will not have anything further to do with the house you live in. Protect yourself. YOU are the only one who has your best interests at heart. Your partner should just make a will, and specify who gets what in his estate. He doesn't need to deceive you, or leave the decision of where you live after he dies at the mercy of his children. He just needs to make a will so that his wishes are carried out. It DOES sound like something weird is going on...

 
February 8, 2007, 11:50 am CST

Adding some left brain here...

Quote From: angelgirl11

I can't belevie that people that are married  want to sign a paper saying who gets what. if they don't work out. Thats so crazy!!  When you get married, you get married because you truly love each other and willing to stick together in good and bad times.
At least 50% of marriages fail.  Is it reasonable for everyone to bet that they will be in the <50% that doesn't fail?
 
February 8, 2007, 3:34 pm CST

02/09 Sign on the Line!

Quote From: dardar8

Darlene here.  I was on this show with my husband Bobby.  I just want to say that I wanted to stand up and applaud when I read this post! Canuckchick gave great advice. It's so hard to see things clearly when we are embroiled in a confusing situation. Believe me, I can relate. Don't be afraid to ask for advice or help. Keep people around you who truly love and care for you..it was difficult for me to go on the show, and talk about my personal situation-I know there are many others in similiar circumstances. 

Hi Darlene.

When  I read your reply to this message it made me laugh. You are obviously looking for the right thing to do here, not just by you but by every body. Even your nutty husband. I would like to stress to you the importance of hearing and taking the advise from the proffessionals that you are talking to. Too often you hear about people who go against the advice they are given because they feel that the professionals dont really know what they are going through. As every thing that is presented to these people would be different on a case-by-case bases. So people tend to belive that the counsellor that they are talking to or their attoerney dont really know whats going on in their situtation. But these people do.

 

 Be strong, and resourcefull. If you have doubts about the actions that you are advised to take, tell your attorney or your counselor. Argue with them, make them explaine every thing to you a billion times till you understand why and how you are going to do things. So when Bobby is in front of you, he will not be able to find any doubt that you have in your self. If he senses this, he will pick at it and pick at it. And you may find that you crumble cause you were not sure to begin with.

 

Good Luck Bella.  

 
February 8, 2007, 3:38 pm CST

"What's Love Got To Do With It?"

The title of that old Tina Turner song seems so appropriate to me, in the context of this discussion on pre/post nuptial agreements, quit-claim deeds, etc.  Before we got married (both for the first time), my hubby was well off financially and I was not.  Once we became engaged, he tried to force me to sign a pre-nup, but I resisted on the grounds that marriage was all about trust and building a life together.  Within a few months of the wedding, he tricked me into going to his attorney's office.  His lawyer tried to belittle me into a signing a post-nup (which I had never even heard of before).  Again, I  refused to cooperate.  Long Story Short:  My husband admitted that he regarded marriage simply as a legal contract -- not as a covenant of the heart.  Since then, I have never given him any reason to distrust me.  His relatives, on the other hand, seem to have only their own best interests in mind; they have been downright cruel to me at times.  Recently, my husband signed a "quit claim" form, in order to add my name onto his, on the title of the home where  we have lived for over 12 years.  (In my opinion, he should have done that a long time ago.)  Bottom Line:  I believe that pre/post nups. establish an atomosphere of cynicism and distrust that is extremely difficult to overcome.  If you ask me, they do a lot more harm than good!
 
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