Topic : Homosexuality Debate and Discussion

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Created on : Sunday, March 18, 2007, 12:35:17 pm
Author : penny_lady
This is a place to talk/debate about homosexuality in general. Not just in the context of Gay Marriage, although that topic is welcomed here.

What do you think about homosexuality?

Sin, not a sin? Choice, not a choice? Should they be allowed to marry or not? Gays in the military or not? Is sexuality in neat categories or is it a spectrum? Should genetics be used in the future, if possible, to change a person's sexuality? Bisexuality, a trend, an actual sexual orientation, or just confusion?

Have an interesting article on homosexuality? Post it!


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March 23, 2007, 12:59 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: turkalurk

um, did your post get deleted again?

 

 

Yes.
 
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April 5, 2007, 12:28 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Lesbian Couple in Wyo. Denied Communion
By KATHLEEN MILLER, Associated Press Writer

1 hour ago

GILLETTE, Wyo. - Leah Vader and Lynne Huskinson, a lesbian couple who got married in Canada last August, sent a letter recently to their state legislator decrying a Wyoming bill that would deny recognition of same-sex marriages. The lawmaker read the letter on the floor of the Legislature.

Soon after, the local paper interviewed the couple on Ash Wednesday and ran a story and pictures of them with ash on their foreheads, a mark of their Roman Catholic faith.

It wasn't long after that that the couple received a notice from their parish church telling them they have been barred from receiving Communion.

"If all this stuff hadn't hit the newspaper, it wouldn't have been any different than before _ nobody would have known about it," said the couple's parish priest at St. Matthew's, the Rev. Cliff Jacobson. "The sin is one thing. It's a very different thing to go public with that sin."

Catholics deemed sinners in the eyes of the church are sometimes taken aside and privately advised not to take Communion. But Cheyenne Bishop David Ricken, gay Catholic organizations and a national church spokeswoman said they could not recall any previous instance of a U.S. bishop denying the sacrament to a gay couple in writing.

Now Huskinson and Vader say they are struggling to reconcile their devotion to the church with their devotion to each other.

"You spend half your time defending your gayness to Catholics," Vader said, "and the other half of your time defending your Catholicism to gays."

The couple, who regularly attended Mass and took Communion, have not been back to St. Matthew's since they received the letter a month and a half ago. Vader said they did not want to make a scene.

The 46-year-old newlyweds _ Vader is a supervisor at a recycling center, Huskinson a coal miner _ ran afoul of a sort of don't-ask-don't-tell policy on the church's part.

"I told my wife in good conscience that if I had known those ladies, and we'd have been having a beer, I'd have just told them to keep everything to themselves," parish music director John Chick said. He added that once news like this hits the papers, "someone's forced to deal with it now, aren't they?"

The parish priest said that after the couple put their engagement and marriage announcements in the local paper, he ran reminders of the church's teachings in the parish bulletin as a warning.

After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: "It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion."

The bishop said the couple's sex life constitutes a grave sin, "and the fact that it became so public, that was their choice."

Last fall, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops overwhelmingly approved new guidelines that say parishes should welcome gays while telling them to be celibate because the church considers their sexuality "disordered." The bishops said that anyone who knowingly persists in sinful behavior, such as gay sex or using artificial contraception, should refrain from taking Communion.

Professor Carl Raschke, chairman of religious studies at the University of Denver, said of the Cheyenne bishop's decision: "It's no more surprising that the Catholic Church would deny Communion to an openly gay couple than a Muslim mosque would deny access to somebody who ate pork."

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the church allows local bishops to handle decisions on who may take Communion, so there is no record of how many have been barred from receiving the sacrament.

Walsh said most cases she has heard of involved public figures. During the 2004 presidential campaign, the St. Louis archbishop Raymond Burke said he would deny Communion to John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Vader said the couple never made any secret of their relationship. She pointed to statuettes of two kissing Dutch girls in front of their single-wide trailer home. She also said that the couple posed for a church directory family photo with Vader's children from a previous marriage, and that the church has sent mail to both of them at the same address for years.

Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are "not going around broadcasting, `Hey I'm having sex outside of marriage' or `I'm using birth control.'"
 
 
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April 7, 2007, 12:02 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Here is an interesting op-ed piece...

 

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/20/AR2007032001428.html

 
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April 7, 2007, 12:06 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: penny_lady

Lesbian Couple in Wyo. Denied Communion
By KATHLEEN MILLER, Associated Press Writer

1 hour ago

GILLETTE, Wyo. - Leah Vader and Lynne Huskinson, a lesbian couple who got married in Canada last August, sent a letter recently to their state legislator decrying a Wyoming bill that would deny recognition of same-sex marriages. The lawmaker read the letter on the floor of the Legislature.

Soon after, the local paper interviewed the couple on Ash Wednesday and ran a story and pictures of them with ash on their foreheads, a mark of their Roman Catholic faith.

It wasn't long after that that the couple received a notice from their parish church telling them they have been barred from receiving Communion.

"If all this stuff hadn't hit the newspaper, it wouldn't have been any different than before _ nobody would have known about it," said the couple's parish priest at St. Matthew's, the Rev. Cliff Jacobson. "The sin is one thing. It's a very different thing to go public with that sin."

Catholics deemed sinners in the eyes of the church are sometimes taken aside and privately advised not to take Communion. But Cheyenne Bishop David Ricken, gay Catholic organizations and a national church spokeswoman said they could not recall any previous instance of a U.S. bishop denying the sacrament to a gay couple in writing.

Now Huskinson and Vader say they are struggling to reconcile their devotion to the church with their devotion to each other.

"You spend half your time defending your gayness to Catholics," Vader said, "and the other half of your time defending your Catholicism to gays."

The couple, who regularly attended Mass and took Communion, have not been back to St. Matthew's since they received the letter a month and a half ago. Vader said they did not want to make a scene.

The 46-year-old newlyweds _ Vader is a supervisor at a recycling center, Huskinson a coal miner _ ran afoul of a sort of don't-ask-don't-tell policy on the church's part.

"I told my wife in good conscience that if I had known those ladies, and we'd have been having a beer, I'd have just told them to keep everything to themselves," parish music director John Chick said. He added that once news like this hits the papers, "someone's forced to deal with it now, aren't they?"

The parish priest said that after the couple put their engagement and marriage announcements in the local paper, he ran reminders of the church's teachings in the parish bulletin as a warning.

After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: "It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion."

The bishop said the couple's sex life constitutes a grave sin, "and the fact that it became so public, that was their choice."

Last fall, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops overwhelmingly approved new guidelines that say parishes should welcome gays while telling them to be celibate because the church considers their sexuality "disordered." The bishops said that anyone who knowingly persists in sinful behavior, such as gay sex or using artificial contraception, should refrain from taking Communion.

Professor Carl Raschke, chairman of religious studies at the University of Denver, said of the Cheyenne bishop's decision: "It's no more surprising that the Catholic Church would deny Communion to an openly gay couple than a Muslim mosque would deny access to somebody who ate pork."

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the church allows local bishops to handle decisions on who may take Communion, so there is no record of how many have been barred from receiving the sacrament.

Walsh said most cases she has heard of involved public figures. During the 2004 presidential campaign, the St. Louis archbishop Raymond Burke said he would deny Communion to John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Vader said the couple never made any secret of their relationship. She pointed to statuettes of two kissing Dutch girls in front of their single-wide trailer home. She also said that the couple posed for a church directory family photo with Vader's children from a previous marriage, and that the church has sent mail to both of them at the same address for years.

Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are "not going around broadcasting, Hey I'm having sex outside of marriage' or I'm using birth control.'"
 
I have mixed feelings on this one. If I believe in separation of Church and State (and I do) then the church should be able to make its own rules regarding sacraments so long as it isn't breaking laws. I am not sure I want this to be a legal issue....I want government out of church and church out of government. The only thing I can do is choose not to belong to a church that is against gay marriage.
 
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April 7, 2007, 11:47 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: julie1418

I have mixed feelings on this one. If I believe in separation of Church and State (and I do) then the church should be able to make its own rules regarding sacraments so long as it isn't breaking laws. I am not sure I want this to be a legal issue....I want government out of church and church out of government. The only thing I can do is choose not to belong to a church that is against gay marriage.
I agree completely. I will back a churches right to do what it wants 100% as long as that doesn't involve some kind of inhumane treatment of any kind of course.

I always wonder how people reconcile being gay and being a part of a church that opposes that.
 
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April 18, 2007, 8:27 pm PDT

Homosexuals are wrong in Gods eyes

God created man and women and it was intended for men and women to procreate. God didn't tell men to have relations with other men and women to be with other women. Homosexuality is a sin and no matter what anyone says if you are gay and you don't repent and change your ways you are going to hell. Sin is sin and God loves the siner but hates sin; and homosexuality is a sin.

 
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April 19, 2007, 12:20 am PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: kayrod

God created man and women and it was intended for men and women to procreate. God didn't tell men to have relations with other men and women to be with other women. Homosexuality is a sin and no matter what anyone says if you are gay and you don't repent and change your ways you are going to hell. Sin is sin and God loves the siner but hates sin; and homosexuality is a sin.

And this is all a part of your religion. Cool. I'm totally cool with that. I respect people' s rights to believe whatever they want.

I however will object if I see someone trying to force their beliefs on other people. Or if they try to stop on someone's rights. Or if they try to oppress anyone.
 
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April 19, 2007, 10:34 am PDT

Homosexuals are wrong in Gods eyes

Quote From: penny_lady

And this is all a part of your religion. Cool. I'm totally cool with that. I respect people' s rights to believe whatever they want.

I however will object if I see someone trying to force their beliefs on other people. Or if they try to stop on someone's rights. Or if they try to oppress anyone.

i am not trying to force m beliefs on other people; I'm just speaking the truth and i don't care who likes it or who doesn't. Homosexuality is totally wrong and i don't think anyone should sugar coat this subject. If you are gay and you don't repent you will go to hell and their's no question about that. The bible shows us how a man who lays with another man is an abomination. So homosexuality is and abomination in Gods eyes.

 
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April 19, 2007, 12:46 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: kayrod

i am not trying to force m beliefs on other people; I'm just speaking the truth and i don't care who likes it or who doesn't. Homosexuality is totally wrong and i don't think anyone should sugar coat this subject. If you are gay and you don't repent you will go to hell and their's no question about that. The bible shows us how a man who lays with another man is an abomination. So homosexuality is and abomination in Gods eyes.

Those Bible passages are widely open to interpretation and context of the times. Most references to homosexual behavior in the Bible are within the context of rape (showing dominance over rival cultures) or temple fertility rites. There is NO reference to homosexual relationships, and Jesus himself NEVER spoke of homosexuality.

 

If you are gay and you don't repent you will go to hell and their's no question about that.

 

There is a LOT of question about that. Furthermore, I thought only GOD gets to decide our eternities...surely you are not putting yourself as GOD? Doesn't that break the first commandment?

 
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April 19, 2007, 12:50 pm PDT

***Homosexuality***

Quote From: kayrod

i am not trying to force m beliefs on other people; I'm just speaking the truth and i don't care who likes it or who doesn't. Homosexuality is totally wrong and i don't think anyone should sugar coat this subject. If you are gay and you don't repent you will go to hell and their's no question about that. The bible shows us how a man who lays with another man is an abomination. So homosexuality is and abomination in Gods eyes.

The truth is a funny thing, I've always felt that there are usually at least 3 versions of it, your side, my side and somewhere in the midst of it the truth.  While you may feel that homosexuality is totally wrong I don't.  I know many Christians who do not interpret the bible the same as you do.  What I feel is totally wrong is when someone judges another and then calls them an abomination.  I'm pretty sure that the bible says that only God should judge.  So if you are completely without sin then by all means cast that first stone but I don't think that any of us truly can do that.

 

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