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Topic : 04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

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Created on : Thursday, March 29, 2007, 12:43:09 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
What happens when family members take sides … against each other? Steven Jr. has been accused by his stepmother, Pam, and his stepsister, Tashika, of molesting Tashika's then 3-year-old daughter. Steven Jr. says there's no way he would ever commit such a sick act against a child. His father, Steve, says he believes his son, and the allegations are destroying his marriage and their family. In order to prove his innocence, Steven Jr. agrees to take a polygraph exam. After two hours of testing, will the truth be revealed? Find out the surprising results. And, why does Steven Jr. believe that his family is alleging he committed this crime and turning their backs on him? Will this family get the answers they are looking for and be able to move forward? Talk about the show here.

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April 2, 2007, 11:13 pm CDT

Did he or didn't he?

Quote From: ceildh1

He's lucky to have you, and I hope he knows that.

I think it is a terrible thing to take this on national TV, if he really didn't do it ( not knowing your family or the circumstances please forgive me for trying to be neutral here ), he is labled for life anyway because there will be some saying his "Body Language " or mannerisms, made him "LOOK" guilty ( prepare yourself for that ), and there is still a chance the polygraph will give a wrong answer either way (I hope you've been prepared for that as well ), there will be some to take the polygraph results as gospel either way.

We have to keep in mind, that not only the child, but a whole family is being hurt by this, true or not, they are the ones that have to deal with this when they get home, we can comment on amessage board and get on with our lives, but I will say so far so good, most are reserving Judgement until Wednsday.

Stay strong, and maybe your father someday will see the people that really should be his priority.

You are so correct, that poly is not 100% accurate. So, what will that test prove? Even once the test results are revealed there will always be doubts on both sides. 

 

I have no comment either way on his guilt or non-guilt. And honestly, even after the results are read I will not be able to take a side.  

 

But I do believe there are 2 sides to every story and in both sides there will be some truth and some lies.

 

This must be very hard for everyone who is involved in this matter and my heart goes out to all of them.   With matters such as this, there never really is any peace to be achieved. Someone will be found guilty and someone will be found innocent, but everyones life will be left a train wreck.

 

I do hope above all things that there was no sexual assult committed! I find any sexual assult on a minor or an adult to be one of the worst crimes committed.  For the childs sake, let this whole story be a lie and hopefully they can all move on from here.

 
April 3, 2007, 4:51 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: ceildh1

Again with the polygraph ?  Have we not yet learned or can we NOT comprhend that it is not infallable ?  So if it comes back that he did it (keeping in mind that there is still an 8% chance it was wrong ) what then, he's going to carry that stigma for the rest of his life, it can't be used in court, so if he did it, big deal they can't use it against him so still no proof.

There will be many basing guilt on what they perceive of his mannerisms (do we remember Jeremy and Kaylee ), or his attitude.  There will be many to say they would do this that or the other, without having been in the situation themselves, pedophiles do not wear signs saying they are pedophiles, few actually brag about it or will admit it ( the next Dr. Phil house is the first time I have ever heard someone admit that ).

Until someone comes up with a way to read minds, or a truth serum then we have no real way of knowing what happened when or where, no I haven't seen the show yet obviously, but I am getting tired of the polygraph being touted as the absolute truth, only two people know for sure.

I guess we need to keep in mind there are THREE sides to every story, the perpatrators, the victims and then there's the truth.

While I can respect that you are tired of seeing these polygraphs used on the docs show,  I think you do a very big injustice to victims/survivors of sexual abuse by saying there are three sides to every story;  the perps, the victims, then the truth. 

If someone is truley a victim of sexual abuse, getting someone to believe them(once they find the courage to even speak about it)is an incredibly difficult thing.  The majority of sexual abuse survivors are NOT believed.  They are told they are making things up, are lying, trying to "stir trouble", etc.

  Perhaps you are confused because of these few situations that have been  on the docs show.   Please try to remember what you see on tv isnt what usually happens in life.  Please try and give the respect to victims/survivors that they deserve.  Saying what you did about three sides to every story is incredibly disrespectful, imo.  The reason being, the majority victims have a horrible time trying to get anybody to believe what they say.  I would guess(at least)90% of the time they are shut up, shut down, and pushed away from the family, as generally these incedents happen in a family where it has been an ongoing dynamic and once somone speaks of it, they are then labled the "troublemakers". 

When talking about true victims, please remember they have no reason to lie.  Speaking of the truth is hard enough, sick enough, sad enough, that true sexual abuse victims have no need, desire, or reason to lie.  Making it out that true victims will lie as the perps will, only allows more excuses to these sick and twisted people.  Believe me, they have MORE then enough of those already!
 
April 3, 2007, 8:00 am CDT

question who?

A DNA test is very precise, a polygraph test is not.  It is not allowed as evidence of guilt in court

because it is not all conclusive.  that does not not mean it is not a valuable tool in finding

information.  It is still used by police, FBI, security authorities and legal systems because it does find information.  It is not fullproof though.  A few people out there can either pass it because they do not have guilt responses and some show responses from mre nervous

feelings.  Dr. Phil's show is not court thus that test which is agreed on by the party is a tool

for us to use to find clue, information and even innocent cases?

A person being the kindest, nicest or evilest person is not any kind of proof whatsoever regarding sexual abuse!  That is a fact.  There is perpatrators out there with remorse who have spoken up and gave a wealth of information about thier manipulations and victimization of children.  They also have told alot about the perpatrators manners and methods of manipulating a whole family.

Priests, lawyers, Doctors, carpenters, Pastors, teachers, couselors, family members, the list is

endless: anyone can and does comit this crime and offence to children!  Most often it is a trusted family member who offers the most availablity of the victim to be abused.

Did he or didn't he?  Well a child has made a complaint of it, that alone tells us all there is definately a problem there.  Why is it that when it is adults who are msot apt to lie that we instantly defend an adult based on their personality when that is never a true factor for sexually abusing a child?  Actually most sexual abusers was sexually abused as children and most often kept it secret or was not believed.

I would always question the adult who was accused as being inappropriate with the child until

there is some kind of evidence it did not happen, the opposing way is far too risky to the welfare of children.  Taking the adult who can defend for themself, can speak up, can articulate events better and is most often guilty when accused is far too risky to the child?

Children who are sexually abused do not just get over it, they carry a life long problem of some sort, they become perpatrators, drug and alcohol abusers, sexual permiscuous, and so on?

They become self-injurers, many do not speak up because the family members get so bent on protecting the accsued at the childs expense.  It is far better to stay on a middle ground than to take a side which causes further abuse to the child?  Why is that so hard to believe and do? 

I would rather have to say I am wrong and sorry about taking a childs side than have to live with siding with a perpatrator that so abuses more of abuse to a child!

Only children are innocent!

 
April 3, 2007, 8:19 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: tstonehouse

 Hi,
My name is Tiffany.
I am Steven Jr.'s younger sister.
I am outraged that these allegations have even been made.
For anyone who knows my brother, it's not possible.
I am with my brother 100 percent and if that means that my step-mother will refuse to talk to me, then so be it.
I refuse to stand by and watch my brother's name be taken on National Television and be run into the ground.
He is guilty of nothing.
He loved that little girl like she was his own neice.
My brother is one of the kindest people you would ever meet.
I talk to our father very rarely... I don't see the point in taking my brother on National Television to 'prove he didn't do it'.  If he wanted to prove anything to anyone he should have gone to a private psychologist or something.
I just don't understand why he would do this.
They say that he's ruining their marriage and their family.
But what about OUR family?
My father seems to have no problem with ruining his relationships with his children, he's always so worried about what his wife, Pam, thinks.
It wouldn't suprise me if it was her idea to go on the show in the first place.

Back to my point.
My brother did not do this.
I stand by him.
I will continue to stand by him.
Nothing that anyone says is going to convince me otherwise.

Tiffany

You show yourself a good sister to your brother and that is a good thing for him.

Stating that : "My brother did not do this.
I stand by him.
I will continue to stand by him.
Nothing that anyone says is going to convince me otherwise."

is giving him a clean slate no matter what he does or may have done?

That is not fair to anyone especially him? 

Fair is weighing both sides?  A child is caught in a battle now for family

worth, affection, trust and love?  you just told us that the child is not important enough to be given a fair decision, you already made your mind up?  That is sad!

I wish you well in your defense for one side before knowing that you know for sure and

risking a childs welfare. 

that you so easily defend and side 100% on your brother without truely knowing for sure

does not credit your sense of fairness, please try to open your mind to more issues

than that you do not want to belive it is possible because of how you feel?

I would not want you with small children at all because you have sided 100% which leaves no room for a child to be anything but available to be abused around you, far too many family members like that now leaving children to carry the weight of the abuse or problems.

IF he is not guilty, then your stand of 70% for him and 30% for the child will still leave

you some comfort in sibling bonds but to not give this child any room for trust from you ?

That makes you an unsafe person to be trusted with children.  your Step-Mom is correct to keep you away because of your 100% stand against her child!
Any kind of person can abuse children: Priests, Doctors, -the list is endless- because it is not about what kind of personality those around them see?

To error on the side of a child is  a far better place to be found wrong?

 
April 3, 2007, 5:02 pm CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: momisme2

While I can respect that you are tired of seeing these polygraphs used on the docs show,  I think you do a very big injustice to victims/survivors of sexual abuse by saying there are three sides to every story;  the perps, the victims, then the truth. 

If someone is truley a victim of sexual abuse, getting someone to believe them(once they find the courage to even speak about it)is an incredibly difficult thing.  The majority of sexual abuse survivors are NOT believed.  They are told they are making things up, are lying, trying to "stir trouble", etc.

  Perhaps you are confused because of these few situations that have been  on the docs show.   Please try to remember what you see on tv isnt what usually happens in life.  Please try and give the respect to victims/survivors that they deserve.  Saying what you did about three sides to every story is incredibly disrespectful, imo.  The reason being, the majority victims have a horrible time trying to get anybody to believe what they say.  I would guess(at least)90% of the time they are shut up, shut down, and pushed away from the family, as generally these incedents happen in a family where it has been an ongoing dynamic and once somone speaks of it, they are then labled the "troublemakers". 

When talking about true victims, please remember they have no reason to lie.  Speaking of the truth is hard enough, sick enough, sad enough, that true sexual abuse victims have no need, desire, or reason to lie.  Making it out that true victims will lie as the perps will, only allows more excuses to these sick and twisted people.  Believe me, they have MORE then enough of those already!

I will apologize to the victims, maybe I did put that the wrong way, but please to the true victims, don't take this the wrong way, but there are many cases where the victim has backtracked, and children can and HAVE been coached in custody battles, teens have screamed abuse on teachers, hell grown women have palyed the victim card as well (Kobe Bryant comes to mind ).

If this show isn't reality, then it shoudn't be touted as such sorry, but these are supposed to be REAL PEOPLE putting their REAL lives out there for all to see, or has the Doc been fooling all of us for all this time ?

Again though, I will reserve further comment until after the show, and I do apologize to the REAL victims, though I do stand by my comments on the polygraph, no matter the results.

 
April 3, 2007, 5:09 pm CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: ohdang13

You are so correct, that poly is not 100% accurate. So, what will that test prove? Even once the test results are revealed there will always be doubts on both sides. 

 

I have no comment either way on his guilt or non-guilt. And honestly, even after the results are read I will not be able to take a side.  

 

But I do believe there are 2 sides to every story and in both sides there will be some truth and some lies.

 

This must be very hard for everyone who is involved in this matter and my heart goes out to all of them.   With matters such as this, there never really is any peace to be achieved. Someone will be found guilty and someone will be found innocent, but everyones life will be left a train wreck.

 

I do hope above all things that there was no sexual assult committed! I find any sexual assult on a minor or an adult to be one of the worst crimes committed.  For the childs sake, let this whole story be a lie and hopefully they can all move on from here.

I have no tolerance for anyone who victimizes children, some might think so, but I'm usually defending the kids.  Until tommorrow we can't really know, and we still won't really know will we ?

No matter the outcome, this young man's life is ruined, if he is innocent, people will still view him with suspicion, guilty, well the Moderators probably wouldn't want to hear it.  If it was proven the child was coached, an apology with jail time is in order ( YES a child can be COACHED, they don't out and out LIE, but they can be convinced to say what grandma and Mommy want them to).

I'm curious though, who dragged who onto the show ?

 
April 3, 2007, 6:49 pm CDT

Very Sad.

I'm sorry that any family has to go through this....... I can't say wether he did it or not, I can say that I feel for the family as a whole.... Karen
 
April 3, 2007, 7:13 pm CDT

I think he is quilty!

I think that he is quilty for the reason...  I don't see where a three old would get that he put a cookie there and ate it.  I am a mother of a 2 yr old, however I would agree her mother if my son told me something like that I would believe him no matter what.  Although I would not stop treatment under any circumstances. 

 
April 3, 2007, 10:45 pm CDT

Most Certainly

Quote From: ceildh1

I have no tolerance for anyone who victimizes children, some might think so, but I'm usually defending the kids.  Until tommorrow we can't really know, and we still won't really know will we ?

No matter the outcome, this young man's life is ruined, if he is innocent, people will still view him with suspicion, guilty, well the Moderators probably wouldn't want to hear it.  If it was proven the child was coached, an apology with jail time is in order ( YES a child can be COACHED, they don't out and out LIE, but they can be convinced to say what grandma and Mommy want them to).

I'm curious though, who dragged who onto the show ?

I think the younger the child the easier to coach them into saying or doing anything.  And a 3 year old would be easy to convice them that something has happened. 

 

And if it is found to be all a lie just because they don't like this young man then I agree, some jail time is in order here. Making false charges are a serious offense. If indeed this is all a lie...it will be devastating to everyone involved.

 

You know, I'm not really sure who called to get this on the show. If anyone has that answer please respond. 

 

 

 
April 4, 2007, 1:12 am CDT

this hits close to home

I have 4 kids, 2 older by another marriage and 2 younger.   5 years ago next month, my world came tumbling down around my ears when my then 3 yo daughter said my 14 yo son had touched her privates.  He cried and said that was disgusting and gross and he would never do that to his little sister.  Well, I had my son arrested and he spent 2 yrs in a residential treatment facility and then 1 1/2 yrs in prision.  He is 19 now and living on his own, he has not seen my younger children since that horrible night.    He had been molesting her and 16 others because an older "friend" of 16 had been molesting him.  He was acting out.  He says he is not attracted to children and he says he does not want to be with them.  When he is around children he has no sexual urges.  I hope and pray that this is so.  I would die inside if he hurt another child.  Most of me did die that horrible night.   Now my daughter is 8 and she needs counseling for what happened to her.  She is acting out and stealing, and rebellious and I am struggling to find someone in my area to help her.  Everyone wants an arm and a leg and we are struggling to pay the bills we now have.  It isn't fair, that he got help, which he NEEDED, and I did pay anything, but I can't get any help for her and my heart is breaking.  She is crying out for help and I just don't have the resources.   I am trying to enroll in school, to get a better job, with one year of training I can double our income, but can she wait one year?  I don't know.   If anyone knows of resources to help, please let me know.  I adore my beautiful little girl and I just wilt inside when I see her acting out, but I determined to find someone to help her.    Thank you and when a little says that someone is touching her,      SHE IS BEING TOUCHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   HUBBY NEEDS TO WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!   SHE DOESN'T NEED YOU TO MAKE HER MORE OF A VICTIM, SHE NEEDS A HERO!!!
 
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