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Topic : 04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Number of Replies: 383
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Created on : Thursday, March 29, 2007, 12:43:09 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
What happens when family members take sides … against each other? Steven Jr. has been accused by his stepmother, Pam, and his stepsister, Tashika, of molesting Tashika's then 3-year-old daughter. Steven Jr. says there's no way he would ever commit such a sick act against a child. His father, Steve, says he believes his son, and the allegations are destroying his marriage and their family. In order to prove his innocence, Steven Jr. agrees to take a polygraph exam. After two hours of testing, will the truth be revealed? Find out the surprising results. And, why does Steven Jr. believe that his family is alleging he committed this crime and turning their backs on him? Will this family get the answers they are looking for and be able to move forward? Talk about the show here.

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April 4, 2007, 1:22 am CDT

you are a victim too

Quote From: shetypes

You show yourself a good sister to your brother and that is a good thing for him.

Stating that : "My brother did not do this.
I stand by him.
I will continue to stand by him.
Nothing that anyone says is going to convince me otherwise."

is giving him a clean slate no matter what he does or may have done?

That is not fair to anyone especially him? 

Fair is weighing both sides?  A child is caught in a battle now for family

worth, affection, trust and love?  you just told us that the child is not important enough to be given a fair decision, you already made your mind up?  That is sad!

I wish you well in your defense for one side before knowing that you know for sure and

risking a childs welfare. 

that you so easily defend and side 100% on your brother without truely knowing for sure

does not credit your sense of fairness, please try to open your mind to more issues

than that you do not want to belive it is possible because of how you feel?

I would not want you with small children at all because you have sided 100% which leaves no room for a child to be anything but available to be abused around you, far too many family members like that now leaving children to carry the weight of the abuse or problems.

IF he is not guilty, then your stand of 70% for him and 30% for the child will still leave

you some comfort in sibling bonds but to not give this child any room for trust from you ?

That makes you an unsafe person to be trusted with children.  your Step-Mom is correct to keep you away because of your 100% stand against her child!
Any kind of person can abuse children: Priests, Doctors, -the list is endless- because it is not about what kind of personality those around them see?

To error on the side of a child is  a far better place to be found wrong?

Tiffany, my heart hurts for you,   my 14 yr old son molested my 3 yr old daughter and swore he would never do anything so gross and disgusting and that it was sick and he cried and pleaded to be believed.  Later we found out that he had been abused by an older boy.  He has been in treatment and jail, and is trying to get on with his life.  does this mean your brother is guilty? NO!  But it does mean, that inspite of what we want to believe, inspite of how much we thing we know someone, things happen.  My son was a football player, active in the school band, and everyone liked him.  He had a sense of humor that would keep you in stitches for hours. and he still does. I love both of my children and my heart breaks for both of them and their brother and sister.  My son did wrong, no doubt about it and seeing him in prison darn near killed me, but it was for him and maybe future victims that I sent him there,  he was in a residential treatment facility too. He is a better person, because he received help that he needed to heal from his ordeal.  Bless you.
 
April 4, 2007, 4:38 am CDT

A child molester is a child molester

Quote From: butterflylove

I think that he is quilty for the reason...  I don't see where a three old would get that he put a cookie there and ate it.  I am a mother of a 2 yr old, however I would agree her mother if my son told me something like that I would believe him no matter what.  Although I would not stop treatment under any circumstances. 

     As someone who has been witness to the devastation that a molester can cause.  In 1994, my and my son and husband were doing well.  We had a new car and a new home.  Then on August 4, 1994 I got a call that would change our life forever. one of my friends had seen these precious girls down at social services and were all crying and screaming.  My husband and I lived right behind them.  It was his Father that was molesting these two girls.  Our first thought because he was always physically abusive, but were totally blown away when his father was arrested later that day.  we didn't know what to believe or who to believe. That night when we found out that he was arrested on 12 counts of rape and other horrendous crimes.  He turned all his land and belongings over to us and then started a year of hell.  My hubby and I started trying to pay his bills and ours.  My husband started drinking because of all the shame and pain he was feeling.  There was a trial and because of the "fair felons Act"  he was given a plea down to only 9 years.  If he had been arrested after October 1994, he would have had to do the max 30 years.  Lets examine who the victim are in just my family.  Me, my husband who was beaten many times by his child molesting father, my hubby's 3 sisters, two of which was the victims of the molester, their mother, and my niece and my son.  That is just part of the lives that were affected that day.  It has taken my husband years to deal with just the physical abuse not counting the emotional abuse that we suffered because we lived right be hind him.  If only those girls had told us what was going on none of us would have had to worry with him he would have been dead.  instead he is free living in Nebraska right near schools and other places that has kids around and he is at a high risk to re-offend.  What I would like to know is where is the fair victims act.  we lost everything we had our home  car everything.  We had worked so hard to give our son a good home and good dependable car and good clothes.  Then that happened.  When this happens you loose your dignity your trust your heart.  These predators who prey on children  take everything away from you .  The girls that he was convicted for they left and we haven't spoken since 1995. have seen them 2 times since then and they haven't got a clue as to how to even start dealing with their emotions and feelings and anger.  They deny that they even care.  The other sister who we later found out was molested also when her and her brother,( my husband) were younger.  She has three kids one of which she gave up the other 2 they are in trouble a lot and she cannot trust anyone not even her brother.  so we stay away fro m them all even though our hearts break it is too painful to try to have a relationship with any of them.  and then there's my parents they just went around saying that we were involved my husband especially and made it hard for us to go out in town I stood up to them but my husband was slowly dying  he was drinking like 2 1/5 of liquor a day along with a case of beer.  He has quit the drinking and has dealt with his father by letters.  Telling him of all the horrible things he did to him and all his siblings it helped him to finally get it out of him.  He at one time had a .38 blood alcohol level with out having anything to drink on the day he almost died.  That helped him to realize that he was not to blame for his father and that he could not have known about the other abuse that was going on.  So to all victims out there of this kind of abuse you have to face your abusers whether by face or by letter tell them how they ruined your life let them know all the pain they caused you.  Tell them you never want to hear them say I'm sorry it doesn't help they just need to die they don't deserve to live.  we need stronger laws against this and stronger consequences none of this where they get out of jail in 6 months or 10 months or even 10 years.  The victim is in a prison like place for the rest of their lives.  take back their power. Get help for the victims and give them a new home or something don't let them end up in homeless shelters like my husbands sisters did. it is not fair.
 
April 4, 2007, 5:25 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: ohdang13

I think the younger the child the easier to coach them into saying or doing anything.  And a 3 year old would be easy to convice them that something has happened. 

 

And if it is found to be all a lie just because they don't like this young man then I agree, some jail time is in order here. Making false charges are a serious offense. If indeed this is all a lie...it will be devastating to everyone involved.

 

You know, I'm not really sure who called to get this on the show. If anyone has that answer please respond. 

 

 

I only asked that because it isn't unheard of for family members who have their own issues, to accuse other family memebers of something HORRENDOUS to get back at them, wht they don't realize is how much they are also hurting the victim as well.

Oneof my best friends, had a situation that went quite ugly.  Her husband was getting into the shower before work, now I don't know about you, but I don't shower with clothes on, anyway he forgot to lock the bathroom door.  His daughters, and a neighbor's child were playing hide and seek, they were about five years old, and being five, no she din't listen for the water running and she forgot to knock, she walked right in on him standing there naked adjusting the water, his wife, right away removed the child , and explained calmly about knocking because the bathroom is private, and immediatly called the childs mother to apologize and explain the situation.

Within a week, quickest I'd ever seen anyone go to court, he was formally charged with indecent exposure, child molesting (he didn't touch her, he yelled like many of us would when startled like that ), he spent two years in jail, and five years probation and his parental rights were terminated to the point he was not allowed to be alone with his own girls (despite psychiatric assesments that showed he had never touched or harmed his children in any way), they ended up divorcing, after they were chased out of town (came out later that this Mom had once tried to get another five year old suspended for sexual harassment after he kissed her daughter).  Now I do get that maybe this Mom had been a victim herself and was hypersensitive to these things, assesments of her own daughter showed no trauma to the child mentally or physically, but that one family was torn apart.

Now as for the victim ? This poor kid was NEVER again WELCOME in anyone's home even with her mother present, okay sounds horrid I know that, and it certainly wasn't the child's fault at all but would any of us put our families into that position knowing that ? I would hope not.

Turned out later, there had been a dispute over the property line when my friend was putting up a fence for her dog and kids, My friend and her husband won the case, and this other woman tried to convince people the dog attacked her ( the dog was never left outside alone) and when that didn't work, well, things that make you go HMMMMM.

But once an accusation like that is made, if it is a false accusation, you can NEVER take it back, and this person lives with the stigma, and the trauma that that can cause, they are victims as well.

If its true ( like that grandfather, and I use that term loosly, on the next Dr. Phil House ) then yes lock him up and throw away the key, in the general population of the prisons, problem solved.

 
April 4, 2007, 5:27 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: ceildh1

I will apologize to the victims, maybe I did put that the wrong way, but please to the true victims, don't take this the wrong way, but there are many cases where the victim has backtracked, and children can and HAVE been coached in custody battles, teens have screamed abuse on teachers, hell grown women have palyed the victim card as well (Kobe Bryant comes to mind ).

If this show isn't reality, then it shoudn't be touted as such sorry, but these are supposed to be REAL PEOPLE putting their REAL lives out there for all to see, or has the Doc been fooling all of us for all this time ?

Again though, I will reserve further comment until after the show, and I do apologize to the REAL victims, though I do stand by my comments on the polygraph, no matter the results.

 Completely agree that there are people who make false claims.  Imo, those idiotic people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  All they do is make it even more difficult for true victims to get justice.  Its already hard enough for true vitcims to get justice!  What these false allegations do to the true victims is infuriating!    *mad face*

Of course these are real people on the docs show.  However, it is not often that an allegation of abuse will be followed up by a lie detector test.   As well as most families in these situations do everything in their power to sweep it under the rug, not bring it out into the open on a tv show.  This is what I meant by perhaps youre confused because of these 4 or 5 shows the doc has had on.

Thank you for the apology!    :)   Speaking as a survivor and for other survivors/victims, I can tell you that being accused of lying is the ONE THING we all seem to hear over and over and over again.  Its truley sad.  In all my experiences with victims/survivors (quite alot) I have run across only TWO who have had family follow up on their accusations properly.  All the rest were told they were lying, to shut up, the family doesent want to hear about it, and a few other things that were REALLY sick and twisted. 
 
April 4, 2007, 6:49 am CDT

And Dateline NBC...

Quote From: thompsbj

I'm a woman, and I'm married to a divored man.  His ex-wife never went this far in an accusation, but she used other tools to confuse the courts and the children.

 

IF THIS IS TRUE - I offer no defense to the guilty party.  I have to say this out right.

 

My skeptisism comes in the manner that I see this used so often, especially in bad marriages as a set up for the women (mainly) to gain full custody of the children.  It is a hard crime to prove after the fact, and I strongly believe young children can be manipulated to believe and retell a story that never ocurred.

 

Unfortunately the news reports these matters in a way that convicts the person immediately.  If they are found innocent, the truth is never publicisized as much as the accusation.

 

My fathter, just turned 73, is undergoing child pornograpy charges.  Unfortunately he is in the realm of senior citizens signing onto the web and not understanding security, viruses, and spam mail that targets you. 

 

I don't condemn my father's interest in adult pornography, but it is this door that opened him to unwanted child pornograpy that has since brought him to computer-related charges.  There is no child personally involved - or I would also be ready to condemn him even as his daughter.

 

My point to this issue, is that the topic, as real as it is, has become the new "Drunken Driving" topic. That is, it is the hot topic of the day that the media and political groups have found an audience to become the biggest sin ever.   People have always driven drunk (I'm not condoning this) and it only recently become a huge political issue.   It was the largest shame you could do.  Regular people were branded the most horrible of people every time a DUI was posted.

 

Now, we have our new topic of child molestation.  It is as serious, but is not a new crime.  It is the hot topic today to move towards action that helps protect the children.  However, it is such a hot topic that it is like a witch hunt.  No one wants to hear the defense.  Everyone is ready to accuse first because it is such a horrid thing.

 

This is what opens up this to be misused.  If you look at the website that publicizes these offenders, you will see even 13 year olds involved with 11 year olds.  And the date it occurred was over 10 years ago.  I feel empathy for the individuals you now spend the rest of their life with a stigma of molester that was most likely two curious kids doing what most of us did at that age (I'm 42).

 

I hope the truth can be determined in this case and I hope the laws and minds of the American People can continue to question first, and convict later.  We should all take the time to make up our own mind first, and not judge based on someone else's opinion. 

 

I wish society could create such a fervor over the damage done to children when parents use them as pawns.  I know first hand that in Delaware, the court has simply take the women's word first, even when evidence shows (including therapist testemony) that the woman has manipulated a situation to her favor.

 

So I don't support or comdemn this case before true evidence has been given.

 

Brenda

Stepmother/mother to 5 children.

 

 

gets actors to play sex offenders.  So, their work is bogus.

 

Oh paleeze.  Imagine a 6 foot adult, someone a child trusts, starts touching their personal areas.  Cut me a break, I haven't seen this episode yet, but these people are sick.  They violated a child; maybe others besides the child that told on the perp.  Now the kid is going through years of therapy with "why did uncle/aunt so-and-so do this to me...". 

 

 

 
April 4, 2007, 7:37 am CDT

This is heavy !

By what I've read and seen my gut feeling says that I believe Steven Jnr.'s often repeated sentence, no I did not do anything.  After five years of being blamed for this incident of which he is innocent has emotionally drained this young man.  It's such a sensitive issue and I don't wholly blame Tashika, as she is Julia's mum, and it's her job of course to protect her child. Now, that there is no proof that Steven Jnr. had anything to do with it, I believe that she should put it at rest, and also Pam too needs to do that, for everybody's sake. I think Steven Jnr. has paid a lot of pain over the five years and it has to stop. Tashika should have kept taking Julia to the counselor if she believed her daughter was molested. Julia is a confused little girl and I hope she will be ok when she gets older. I hope that with help and counseling Steve and his son will form a proper relationship, but it will take a long time for Steven Jnr. to get over the hurt, as he feels his father had betrayed him because he didnt believe him at the start. I really believe that the whole family together need to be counseled , and my heart is so heavy at this time over the whole incident. Steven Jnr. needs to be treated as a normal member of the family, that includes being allowed back into the house, and the others need to lay this to rest once and for all, otherwise I don't see the marriage lasting between Pam and Steve. I don't like it to see it end but with all this emotion , pain and wrong accusations I truly don't know where it will end. 

May God grant you all, wisdom , love and tolerance for one another.

Lory. 

 
April 4, 2007, 8:38 am CDT

To the sister

Quote From: shetypes

You show yourself a good sister to your brother and that is a good thing for him.

Stating that : "My brother did not do this.
I stand by him.
I will continue to stand by him.
Nothing that anyone says is going to convince me otherwise."

is giving him a clean slate no matter what he does or may have done?

That is not fair to anyone especially him? 

Fair is weighing both sides?  A child is caught in a battle now for family

worth, affection, trust and love?  you just told us that the child is not important enough to be given a fair decision, you already made your mind up?  That is sad!

I wish you well in your defense for one side before knowing that you know for sure and

risking a childs welfare. 

that you so easily defend and side 100% on your brother without truely knowing for sure

does not credit your sense of fairness, please try to open your mind to more issues

than that you do not want to belive it is possible because of how you feel?

I would not want you with small children at all because you have sided 100% which leaves no room for a child to be anything but available to be abused around you, far too many family members like that now leaving children to carry the weight of the abuse or problems.

IF he is not guilty, then your stand of 70% for him and 30% for the child will still leave

you some comfort in sibling bonds but to not give this child any room for trust from you ?

That makes you an unsafe person to be trusted with children.  your Step-Mom is correct to keep you away because of your 100% stand against her child!
Any kind of person can abuse children: Priests, Doctors, -the list is endless- because it is not about what kind of personality those around them see?

To error on the side of a child is  a far better place to be found wrong?

My brothers and sisters didn't believe me either when their father raped me. Years later when I asked her, "Aren't you worried about your daughter near your father"...she said, 'Oh he doesn't do that any more"... This is the same "sister" who would call me a liar for all those years. She knew and yet didn't want to know what her father had done to many little girls, including me, and further she told me later, "I asked for it".. ( I was only 5) but now years later she will bet her little baby daughters life on  "he's not doing that any more"??? PLEEASE!

Once a pervert always a pervert and sister or not, a child isn't going to lie. How do you think this child feels knowing the whole world including Dr. Phil on National TV thinks she lied or was put up to do this horrible thing, when he never even spoke to this child?. I believe the child, you just "need" to believe your brothers tears. I feel sorry for you, but if the Mom lets that guy back into the home with that child, then that child must be taken from the house and taken into protective custody, because clearly the Mom would choose her husband over her little girl. Too many Moms do this and ruin an already wounded little spirit!

 
April 4, 2007, 9:35 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

Quote From: maria3255

By what I've read and seen my gut feeling says that I believe Steven Jnr.'s often repeated sentence, no I did not do anything.  After five years of being blamed for this incident of which he is innocent has emotionally drained this young man.  It's such a sensitive issue and I don't wholly blame Tashika, as she is Julia's mum, and it's her job of course to protect her child. Now, that there is no proof that Steven Jnr. had anything to do with it, I believe that she should put it at rest, and also Pam too needs to do that, for everybody's sake. I think Steven Jnr. has paid a lot of pain over the five years and it has to stop. Tashika should have kept taking Julia to the counselor if she believed her daughter was molested. Julia is a confused little girl and I hope she will be ok when she gets older. I hope that with help and counseling Steve and his son will form a proper relationship, but it will take a long time for Steven Jnr. to get over the hurt, as he feels his father had betrayed him because he didnt believe him at the start. I really believe that the whole family together need to be counseled , and my heart is so heavy at this time over the whole incident. Steven Jnr. needs to be treated as a normal member of the family, that includes being allowed back into the house, and the others need to lay this to rest once and for all, otherwise I don't see the marriage lasting between Pam and Steve. I don't like it to see it end but with all this emotion , pain and wrong accusations I truly don't know where it will end. 

May God grant you all, wisdom , love and tolerance for one another.

Lory. 

Very well said.  I happen to agree.
 
April 4, 2007, 10:05 am CDT

04/04 Did He or Didn't He?

I think the people who lie about this, the people who make false accusations should be jailed. Making a story like that up is devastating to a persons life. That will follow them forever. That is the kind of lie that you cannot take back.

Not to mention it mocks real sex abuse victims. AND it makes REAL abuse that much harder to detect, and to deal with. Kids who are REALLY being abused will then be treated like liars.

Seriously, people who lie about this have serious emotional problems and I don't think that treatment alone will help. I think someone that sociopathic, that self centered needs to be treated to a little jail time.
 
April 4, 2007, 10:19 am CDT

Agreed

Quote From: penny_lady

I think the people who lie about this, the people who make false accusations should be jailed. Making a story like that up is devastating to a persons life. That will follow them forever. That is the kind of lie that you cannot take back.

Not to mention it mocks real sex abuse victims. AND it makes REAL abuse that much harder to detect, and to deal with. Kids who are REALLY being abused will then be treated like liars.

Seriously, people who lie about this have serious emotional problems and I don't think that treatment alone will help. I think someone that sociopathic, that self centered needs to be treated to a little jail time.
I agree completely.  This is especially true when no evidence is found.
 
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