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Topic : 04/12 Twin Tug of War

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Created on : Friday, April 06, 2007, 11:39:40 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Allison Quets made headlines around the world when she allegedly kidnapped her 17-month-old twins across the border into Canada this past Christmas. She had given them up for adoption, but did she do so under duress? She now says she suffered from a pregnancy disease called hyperemesis that left her malnourished and sleep deprived to the point of complete exhaustion. See an exclusive interview with Allison from behind bars where she awaits trial on two counts of international parental kidnapping, with a possible sentence of three years behind bars. Then, look inside the life of a woman who is only three-and-a-half months pregnant and so sick with hyperemesis she spends most of her day on the bathroom floor. Plus, find out what all women need to know about hyperemesis: How you get it, how to know you have it, and whether it could kill you or your unborn child. Join the discussion.

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April 14, 2007, 8:22 pm PDT

adoption?

I'm a very proud mom of a precious daughter, who happens to be adopted.  I remember the talks that my husband and I had with our Social Worker that handled our adoption.  We were told that the birthmother had so many days to change her mind.  The birthparents had to sign papers stating that they were aware of what they were doing.  They had to have representation as well.  They were offered couseling, before and after. 

 

My question is....Where was all this for Allison?  or Did she have any of this?  Even if she signed papers once and went back 3 days later...her time would start from that second signing.  Where was her attorney?  What's with this "boyfriend"?  Granted the show didn't get the other side of the story...HOWEVER, if you DO put aside the fact that Allison was diagnosed with HG (I'm not down playing this fact)...this adoption sounds "fishy" (for lack of a better word). 

 

I could NOT look into my daughters precious eyes knowing that her birthmother changed her mind that quickly.  I could NOT face my daughter with a clear conscious and heart.  I desperately wanted a child and was blessed with one, but my desperation for a child to love was never so bad that I could keep a child from their birthmother.  In my heart and soul, I know that my God would not want me to keep something that is not truely "mine".  

 

Like I have said...the viewers don't know the other side of the story.  If the adoptive parents know something about Allison...like she is unfit or something else, then that would have to be taken into great concideration.  However, if the story happened like she has said...how are those adoptive parents able to live with this?  Like Dr. Phil has told many divorced parents in the past....one day your children will ask the questions and hold you accountable...they will find a way to blame you for taking someone out of their life and may very well resent you for it.

 

As for her fleeing to Canada...again I personally would have to base my opinion on the only information I have at this time and that is what I saw on the show.  If it happened the way Allison said...I would have to say she has paid her debt.  I think the time spent in jail would be punishment enough for fleeing.  She needs an outstanding support group and some of Dr. Phil's "top notch help"! 

 

My heart goes out to these two beautiful babies.  May they always know how very much they are loved.

 
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April 14, 2007, 9:06 pm PDT

You Have Got to be kidding!!!

I am a nurse. I am a mother. Lawyer: definition-Scum of the earth. The adoptive parents should have told their lawyer they would never accept an arrangement with/from such a physically, psychologically, and emotionally ill mother. If they were truly interested in the children’s welfare, they should have PAID someone to help this mother. When she was capable of making a decision of this magnitude, then and only then, should any legally binding documents been presented to her. This mother was hustled out of her children and these children were hustled out of their mother. There is a "special place" in the afterlife waiting for these adoptive parents (I use the term very loosely) and their lawyer and it ain't up.
 
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April 14, 2007, 9:22 pm PDT

Did you miss part of the show?

Quote From: dink1958

I sympathize with Allison, but after reading the message boards, I feel she broke the law when she stole those children and she should be punished for it..She didn't go through the legal process to get the children back. Instead she stole them and took them out of the country..Anyone else who would take their children who were in someone elses custody out of the country without permission would be charged with a crime and punished and so should she..I think her smart lawyer is using her illness when pregnant as an excuse for her stealing those chilren. She didn't have this disease months later when she got the children and took them out of the country..She seems she has emotioal issues and needs treatment..I don't think she should be in jail,but is she emotionally stable to be raising children??..............a viewer
She has been trying to get her children back for at least a YEAR to no avail. Are you a mother? A father? I suspect not. I had very mild nausea with my pregnancy and it was very disruptive. I was an emotional wreck for many months after the delivery and I have a wonderful support system to fall back on. Twins...oh my goodness, I cannot even imagine how tired I would have been with twins even after a normal pregnancy more less a pregnancy as difficult as Allison's. I can go on and on. I hoped you taped the show. You need to watch it again. Talk to some of your friends with children. That could help you understand where she was emotionally when her twins were five months old. At her most venerable time, she needed help with the twins, not someone trying to take them away.
 

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April 14, 2007, 9:42 pm PDT

one more bellyaching mother with a "disease"

Quote From: ohplease21

Ok,

 

First of all to all of you who claim to have suffered from HG.  IF it is SO awful (and maybe it is, I don't know) WHY ON EARTH would you keep getting pregnant after delivering a healthy baby?  So many of these posts are "I had HG too, it is so awful, I had it with all 15 of my babies".  Of course I am exagerating, but you get my point.  It apparently wasn't bad enough to dissuade you from doing it again.

 

Second, Allison was not suffering from this disease any longer when she signed the papers....so HG can not be used as an excuse for giving her babies away.  Did ANYONE ELSE on this board griping about the misery of HG place their babies for adoption?  No?  Didn't think so.

 

Third, she kidnapped the children 16 MONTHS later.  So, you are going to tell me that HG made her do that too?

 

Fourth, for all of you spouting the children's "blood right" stay with Allison even though she is obviously unstable, the children were conceived with donor eggs and donor sperm.  SO, if you want to look at it that way Allison is not their "parent" either.  I wonder what the genetic parents would think of this situation if they knew.  Who THEY would want raising these children.

 

Fifth, the adoptive parents are likely not going public because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  They are fighting in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.  They did nothing wrong, why should they have to go on national television and defend themselves?

 

Feel free to keep belly aching about how horrible this "disease" is, I am not saying it's not.  My point is it must not be THAT bad or women would not go through another pg after suffering through it once.  My personal opinion, surprise surprise, is that it is too bad they are only charging her with parental kidnapping.  She should be in prison for life after what she did, but instead she will likely only serve 3 years.  If she gets those children back, it will be a travesty.

Many women deeply love children and want to raise them.  That's not a surprising idea, I'm sure.  But women with HG are willing to sacrifice their own health to try to acheive something others truly take for granted: a living child.  Only 2 out of 3 of us succeed? Yes, 1 in 3 of our children die in utero.  Whether a family should continue to try carry to term with HG is not up to anyone else to decide.  Just as it's no one's business whether you do or do not choose to have children.

 

And, by the way, I am one of the mothers with 15...I mean 5 children.  But three of them died.  So to get the ideal family of four with two healthy sons, I had to be pregnant five times.  Were they all intentional pregnancies?  No. Afterall, nearly half of all pregnancies are unplanned, and I am no different.  The real difference with HGers is we are much less likely to get "caught."  I am an anomaly in the HG crowd with my multiple unplanned pregnancies. Go ahead and say I'm stupid...I said it a lot of times hanging over the sink puking, and I said it a lot when picking up my daughter's ashes from the funeral home. 

 

Your second point about Allison not suffering from HG when signing the papers is not completely accurate, though I can see how you would think a pregnancy complication would end with delivery of the baby.  HG's impact is longer than many other complications as it takes a long time to replenish depleted nutrients and regain strength when muscle mass has atrophied to nothing.  I am 16 months postpartum with my youngest living child and most recent case of HG.  I am still being poked and prodded to figure out what is wrong; I continue to puke and be nauseous and have problems with neuropathy and pain.  I guess you could say it's all in my head, but I'm quite certain the growth found on my liver post HG is not. 

 

And, yes, I did want to place my oldest for adoption but was fortunate to have family screaming in my face I couldn't and making sure I didn't.  Allison had the opposite in the friend that kept taking her to the attorney.  She needed help, plain and simple, help with the children and followup medical care.

 

Your third point about the parental kidnapping.  I have a different view and see that the kidnapping happened in that lawyers office when Allison was under duress and tortured (yes, to keep an exhausted mom of twins for 11 hours in an office, post csection and post hg is torture)  until she signed documents when it was clear she was not well and needed help, not to have her children kidnapped.

 

I understand that you find HG confounding and women who continue to want more children despite this disease equally confounding.  I am also confounded by both.  It is a brave mother filled with a lot of love who enters into the clutches of HG intentionally and all so she can love a child.  Maternal drive and mother love are strong things.

 

 

 

 

 

 
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April 14, 2007, 9:50 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: ohplease21

Ok,

 

First of all to all of you who claim to have suffered from HG.  IF it is SO awful (and maybe it is, I don't know) WHY ON EARTH would you keep getting pregnant after delivering a healthy baby?  So many of these posts are "I had HG too, it is so awful, I had it with all 15 of my babies".  Of course I am exagerating, but you get my point.  It apparently wasn't bad enough to dissuade you from doing it again.

 

Second, Allison was not suffering from this disease any longer when she signed the papers....so HG can not be used as an excuse for giving her babies away.  Did ANYONE ELSE on this board griping about the misery of HG place their babies for adoption?  No?  Didn't think so.

 

Third, she kidnapped the children 16 MONTHS later.  So, you are going to tell me that HG made her do that too?

 

Fourth, for all of you spouting the children's "blood right" stay with Allison even though she is obviously unstable, the children were conceived with donor eggs and donor sperm.  SO, if you want to look at it that way Allison is not their "parent" either.  I wonder what the genetic parents would think of this situation if they knew.  Who THEY would want raising these children.

 

Fifth, the adoptive parents are likely not going public because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  They are fighting in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.  They did nothing wrong, why should they have to go on national television and defend themselves?

 

Feel free to keep belly aching about how horrible this "disease" is, I am not saying it's not.  My point is it must not be THAT bad or women would not go through another pg after suffering through it once.  My personal opinion, surprise surprise, is that it is too bad they are only charging her with parental kidnapping.  She should be in prison for life after what she did, but instead she will likely only serve 3 years.  If she gets those children back, it will be a travesty.

One- Have you ever had a bad stomach virus? Say for 2 days, maybe three. Multiple that by NINE months. I did not have HG, but I did have other problems during my pregnancy. And, we have more children because we will and do love our children despite the difficulties of the pregnancy, of which HG is one of thousands.

Two- Say you were in a car wreck. Broke many bones. Lost blood. Had numerous transfusions. Your life hung in the balance several times during your recovery. Finally, nine months later you are discharged from the hospital to care for TWO newborn infants. What, having trouble, your bones are healed. You have not had to have a transfusion for sometime. Bet you could not do it. Of course, you would probably say, “So give them up”. What...your full recovery would be only weeks or perhaps months down the road. All you would need was HELP. You could not be a parent or you would understand.

Three- She still has FULL parental rights. Seems too messy to be calling it kidnapping.

Four- You are not a parent, specifically this parent. You did not battle nine full months to survive to allow these kids to make it into this world.

Five- If the adoptive parents, at the very least, did not pay to have Allison evaluated emotionally and psychologically prior to the adoption, they are the kidnappers.

Last, every woman takes a risk of thousands of problems everything they become pregnant. Aren't you lucky your mother took the risk and saw it through?
 
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April 14, 2007, 10:03 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: justnancy

You're right I paid absolutely no attention to this story I didn't note her twitchy, disturbed affect or the mental instability that oozed from her every pore.  I paid no attention to the complete lack of responsibility she expressed for her actions or the psychological disturbance that clearly transcended the HG.  Count me corrected.

 

Do you want me to say that Allison should have her cake and eat it, too? She's obviously not responsible enough to put her pen to a legal document, but she's more than responsible enough to raise two girls.  She's calculated enough to forge documents and get her children out of the country, but she's too weak and frail mentally to make any decisions that count legally just listening to her talk she didn't do anything wrong.

 

But I wasn't paying any attention to that.

No, you only paid attention at that time.

The last two years for her have been like being a captive in some crazy horror movie. Yours eyes would be twitching too if you were in jail...shackles no less...when you should be home taking care of your children. She NEEDED help when those kids were five months old, not someone to snatch them from her.
 
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April 14, 2007, 10:05 pm PDT

Oh Please...

Quote From: ohplease21

Ok,

 

First of all to all of you who claim to have suffered from HG.  IF it is SO awful (and maybe it is, I don't know) WHY ON EARTH would you keep getting pregnant after delivering a healthy baby?  So many of these posts are "I had HG too, it is so awful, I had it with all 15 of my babies".  Of course I am exagerating, but you get my point.  It apparently wasn't bad enough to dissuade you from doing it again.

 

Second, Allison was not suffering from this disease any longer when she signed the papers....so HG can not be used as an excuse for giving her babies away.  Did ANYONE ELSE on this board griping about the misery of HG place their babies for adoption?  No?  Didn't think so.

 

Third, she kidnapped the children 16 MONTHS later.  So, you are going to tell me that HG made her do that too?

 

Fourth, for all of you spouting the children's "blood right" stay with Allison even though she is obviously unstable, the children were conceived with donor eggs and donor sperm.  SO, if you want to look at it that way Allison is not their "parent" either.  I wonder what the genetic parents would think of this situation if they knew.  Who THEY would want raising these children.

 

Fifth, the adoptive parents are likely not going public because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  They are fighting in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.  They did nothing wrong, why should they have to go on national television and defend themselves?

 

Feel free to keep belly aching about how horrible this "disease" is, I am not saying it's not.  My point is it must not be THAT bad or women would not go through another pg after suffering through it once.  My personal opinion, surprise surprise, is that it is too bad they are only charging her with parental kidnapping.  She should be in prison for life after what she did, but instead she will likely only serve 3 years.  If she gets those children back, it will be a travesty.

First: 
Here are the problems with this statement:
a)    Most women don't know that what they have during their first pregnancy is HG, so they try again assuming it was a fluke of nature; and

b)    Even if a woman is diagnosed as having HG, it is not a 100% foolproof likelihood that  she will have another HG pregnancy, highly probable... but not necessarily a guarantee.  For a lot of women, the joy of holding a beautiful baby is worth the crapshoot.

Second: 
a)   No one is saying she had HG while she signed the papers.  What we are saying is that she quite likely had serious PPD and quite possibly a temporarily diminished mental capacity due to the effects of HG (starvation/fatigue/depression, etc...);

b)   No, I don't recall them placing their babies up for adoption, because a lot of women ended up aborting their babies so that they could live (assuming they didn't miscarry due to starvation and dehydration).  Ask them what body part they would cut off to be able to hold and cuddle that little missing hole in their lives.  As for those of us lucky enough to bring our children to term, we have to wake up every day for the rest of our lives and look at their beautiful and wonderful smiling  faces knowing that during our pregnancy, we wished they would die.  There's some lingering post-partum guilt for you. 

      Ask us if  HG had a long-term effect on us.

Third:
See answer Second:a above.

Fourth:
a)   I haven't touted the children's blood right, so I won't address this point further;

b)   As to mental stability, Allison might suffer from a TEMPORARY and TREATABLE form of depression.  If you wish to question her ability to parent based on depression, don't bother.  There are lots of good moms out there who battle depression.

Fifth:
I agree with this.  They are under no obligation.  I feel quite sorry for them as well.  Their desire to have children has been preyed upon by unscrupulous agents.  They are suffering, Allison is suffering and the children are suffering as a result.  This is a pitiful situation all around.

Sixth:
Yes, you have said that it is not a "horrible disease."  Your very  reference to "belly aching" about it only emphasizes that you do not take it seriously, nor do you view it as a real illness which might serve as a mitigating factor in Allison putting her children up for adoption.  It IS that bad.  If it weren't, women wouldn't still be dying from it.

Your opinions as to Allison's legal future are your own.  It is indisputable that her actions were criminal.  As to immoral, that is where the question really lies.  I agree that I'm looking at this with "mommy eyes."  I strongly suspect I would have done the same thing were I in her frightened and desperate shoes.
 
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April 14, 2007, 10:09 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: snaser

I am a mother of 4 children including a set of twins who suffered from severe hyperemesis with all my pregnancies. The 1st was a son and I was 30. I vomited 10 - 12 times a day and was admitted to the hospital several times for IVs. My 2nd was a daughter and although unimaginable, things were worse with this one and I spent the majority of my time on the bathroom floor attached to an IV for hydration and sustenance as I couldn't even keep water down. I lost 30lbs with this pregnancy and was sick right through the delivery. Immediately after delivery I was fine & right back to eating. I decided to have my tubes tied as it was inconceivable that I could go through that ever again. When my daughter passed away at the age of 3, I considered having a segregate to have another child but was told by the Dr that most likely this pregnancy would be fine and if not that the treatment options were much better and the hyperemesis would be able to be controlled. I had artificial insemination and was pregnant with identical girls & fraternal boys. Sick from week 3, I had a main line IV inserted into my neck and began the search for a treatment for the hyperemesis. I carried all 4 for 18 weeks at which time the Drs. insisted on a reduction of the identicals due to a twin to twins transfer in which 1 was severely under developed & the other severely over developed. From week 3 - delivery (8 weeks early) I never ate a bite of food and even a sip of water would come back up. I was 40 when Ben & Matt were delivered and thank God they were very healthy at 4 lbs 3 oz & 4 lbs 7 ozs. I am not sure why this happens but know that I feel the urge to vomit when I see a pregnant woman after having 3 of the worst pregnancies imaginable. I look forward to seeing the show to see if there is an explanation as to why this occurs and if the treatments 8 years later have gotten better results. I feel for any woman who has this experience and hope they too find answers from your experts. Shelley, CT
My heart really goes out to everyone suffering from this disease...a friend of one of my best friends has suffered with this with both of her pregnancies, and I cant imagine how upsetting it can be.  I can remember with her first pregnancy how upset she was and how sick she felt and I remember her telling my friend that she only wanted it to end.  Luckly she is now the mother of two healthy children.  Good luck to all of you with this and I hope everything end well for you
 
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April 14, 2007, 10:15 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: kathmandu

Sorry, but that woman is wacko. I experienced HG with both of my pregnancies, with my two kids. I was hospitalized several times, was put on various meds and eventually on bedrest. Yes it was a miserable time, difficult on many levels, but at no time did I EVER consider putting my kids up for adoption.....NEVER. Just too strange for words. People can't go doing things like she did and think that because she is the children"s mother, that she should be excused. That is illogical, nutty thinking. Being a biological mother does not autonamtically make you a "good" "sane" or "safe" person to raise your kids.  My vote is she be prosecuted and sentenced for kidnapping and child endangerment.  I do feel compassion for her but I also have more compassion for her children and the adoptive parents.
Did you come home with twins? How much help and support did you have? I was very lucky. I had great support, made all the difference in the world. If the adoptive parents and their shyster lawyer had made an effort to be certain she was ready to give her children up for adoption, we would not even be having this conversation. From what I am reading, some of you would probably have more sympathy with someone who had given up a dog or cat and a week or so later realized they had made a mistake and asked for it back. YOU WOULD PROBABLY GIVE THE DOG OR CAT BACK. CRAZY HUH!
 

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April 14, 2007, 10:44 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: dink1958

I think everyone on the message boards misses the point..This woman broke the law....and as far as I am concerned she is uing this illness for an excuse for her behavior..I sympathize with anyone who has had this disease, but it is no excuse for breaking the law..She took those children out of the US illegally and no matter what disease she had , she should suffer the consequenses of breaking the law like anyone else..And aren't u people tired of people using every excuse imaginable for breaking the law..and that is what people hire smart lawyer for, to find them an excuse to get around the law....Wake up.This woman gave those children awway and then because she couldn't get them back using the legal system, she stole them...

No one disputes that she broke the law.  Allison and her attorney freely admitted that on the show.  The motivation for breaking the law was wanting to be with her children, a privilege taken from her by others who took advantage of her when very sick. 

 

I wish that the law were the only issue being debated here.  Honestly, if an assessment of Allison's physical and mental state were done at the time of the documents being signed, no court would have allowed the Needhams to take possession of the children.  They would have been placed for care, that's likely, but Allison would have had them back long ago.  All of this heartache for everyone involved would have been avoided if the law were taken into consideration from the start.

 

Her parental rights are intact. The adoption has been contested from the start.  She is in jail serving for her crime. 

 
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