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Topic : 04/12 Twin Tug of War

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Created on : Friday, April 06, 2007, 11:39:40 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Allison Quets made headlines around the world when she allegedly kidnapped her 17-month-old twins across the border into Canada this past Christmas. She had given them up for adoption, but did she do so under duress? She now says she suffered from a pregnancy disease called hyperemesis that left her malnourished and sleep deprived to the point of complete exhaustion. See an exclusive interview with Allison from behind bars where she awaits trial on two counts of international parental kidnapping, with a possible sentence of three years behind bars. Then, look inside the life of a woman who is only three-and-a-half months pregnant and so sick with hyperemesis she spends most of her day on the bathroom floor. Plus, find out what all women need to know about hyperemesis: How you get it, how to know you have it, and whether it could kill you or your unborn child. Join the discussion.

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April 15, 2007, 2:21 am PDT

Health experts

Quote From: paladin

I totally agree with you about Allison being weak physically during and after her pregnancy.  None of us who has not suffered this affliction knows what she went through, however the pictures of her said it all.  Allison certainly was in no condition to care for ONE infant, much less TWO after giving birth.  Apparently, she was taken advantage of by her boyfriend and the attorney for the adoptive "parents". 

While I do agree that she should not have signed the 2nd set of papers, I feel that when all is said and done, that Allison will prevail but this situation needs to be resolved immediately for the babies.  It's a difficult decision to remove a child from the parents who've raised them BUT they do know their mother, Allison and giving them back to her wouldn't be as traumatic, hopefully, as some would have us think.  The most important issue here is SPEED.  Get this to trial and let experts on this disease be included in the testimony. 

I will pray that a fair and just judge will preside over this and do the right thing and give Allison her babies back. 

The HER forum has a post about their founder being involved in this case for a long time.  I'm sure she would have given info to the attorney. Was it just ignored? It sounds like Allison was very sick and looked like death. Who could ignore that - I'm sure her medical records would show that. How can they ignore that and a 911 tape that obviously shows there was definitely pressure on her. Good grief. Give her kids back and put this to rest! It is doing NO one any good to drag it on. There are so many kids in need of a home - let the Needhams take one of them that NEEDS a home. Maybe that is too much work and time. It's easier to find someone like Allison who is too sick to fight back.
 
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April 15, 2007, 5:34 am PDT

EEP!

Quote From: orestia

 This comparison on the effects of HG bears repeating and is taken directly from the HER website.  The link to the HER website is as follows:

http://www.helpher.org/index.php

*Take special note of the post-partum recovery time.

If anyone out there needs support and information on HG, this is the place.

Area Impacted: Morning Sickness: Hyperemesis Gravidarum: Employment May lose an average of 0-3 weeks of employment and/or use sick time. Job performance is reduced. Often are unable to work for weeks or months and may lose their job or be forced to resign.  Daily Activities Can perform most household responsibilities at some point during the day or week when symptoms are less intense. May be unable to perform even simple household chores or care for themselves (shower, drive, etc.) when symptoms are severe. Energy Level Fatigue is mild to moderate and decreases workload. Recumbent rest is needed to alleviate symptoms. Fatigue may be severe for weeks or months. Bed rest is often a necessity. Prolonged fatigue is very common. Relationships & Socialization Relationships may be stressed but social functioning is only temporarily curtailed. Relationships are often greatly strained and may dissolve. Isolation is common and may lead to depression. Abuse and neglect of the mother may occur. Finances Financial loss due to medical care, loss of work, and use of sick time is significant but usually within a few thousand dollars. Financial loss due to medical care, loss of income, and additional paid services (child care, house cleaning, errands, etc.) can be devastating. Stress Level Psychological stress is mild to moderate and may result in manageable depression during pregnancy. Psychological stress is typically moderate to severe and often results in anxiety and depression. Increased risk of postpartum depression (PPD). Recovery Postpartum recovery is typical and usually takes a few months. Postpartum recovery is prolonged, averaging 6 months 2 years.
 Egad!  When I pasted and previewed this originally it looked very nice and neat and orderly.  Now it's a mess!

Go to:

http://www.hyperemesis.org/hyperemesis-gravidarum/impact-hyperemesis/index.php

and ignore that previous mess of a post.
 
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April 15, 2007, 5:46 am PDT

Thank You for exposing the real truth about Hyperemesis

Hello, my name is Nikki.  I have 3 beautiful children (11,9, and 1), and I suffered with HG for all 3. 

 

I had mild HG with my first pregnancy.  I was sick many times a day and hospitalized several times a week for IV fluids.  I was able to take mild meds (they didn't know about Zofran then) to help with the nausea, and finally around my 3rd trimester the vomiting/nausea subsided. 

 

My second pregnancy was more severe.  I was hospitalized at 6 weeks, and remained in the hospital for almost 2 months (my husband was left home to care for my 1 year old daughter by himself).  My doctors had a PICC Line placed in, and I was fed TPN through that line, and Zofran IV meds until I was 7 months along.  I lost almost 15 lbs before I finally started gaining weight.  I was so miserable during this pregnancy that I swore I'd never get pregnant again.  I felt alone and rejected - everyone thought that I was making myself sick for sympathy.  My only visitors to the hospital where my husband and daughter and my parents, and still I don't think that they can understand exactly how a felt and what I was goiung through.

 

After 8 years, my husband and I decided that we wanted to have another baby (I think it took that long for me to forget how bad I felt the last time I was pregnant!!).  I looked into adoption; however, many expectant mom's aren't looking for an adoptive family that already has 2 children.  Understandably, they want to help childless couples.  So we decided to try and get pregnant - maybe I won't get sick again?? 

 

Well, this pregnancy was the worse!!  I was hospitalized at 4 weeks along.  They immediately put me on IV Zofran, and they put the PICC line in 4 days later (TPN).  I only had to spend 2 weeks in the hospital (I knew the routine from my last pregnancy, and my midwife thought that I might feel better at home being around my family then sitting in a hospital room all by myself).  I was vomiting non-stop and losing weight - my husband still couldn't understand how weak I was or why I would lay on the floor in the bathroom instead of going back to bed.  My kids were now 8 and 10, and they didn't understand why mom couldn't go to school functions or soccer games.  I think they also had a hard time dealing with mom always being in bed, home health nurses coming into the house all the time, and seeing that I was connected to a IV bag 24/7.  There were times that I wanted to give up, there were times that I wished I was never pregnant.

 

I look back now, and I know that all the pain and suffering was worth it.  I have 3 healthy, beautiful children.  But it's so hard to be optimistic when your pregnant with HG and all you can think about is the next five minutes - Please don't let me get sick again in the next five minutes!! 

 

I didn't find out about hyperemesis.org until after my last child was born.  There was nobody that I knew that had HG, nobody that could understand exactly what I was going through.  I went on-line to look up HG hoping that maybe I could help give support to someone else that's suffering from HG.  I have signed up to become a "buddy" to anyone that's suffering from HG.  I could offer emotional support to an HG mom who just wants someone to understand, someone to talk to, someone to give them encouragement and hope that things WILL GET BETTER.

 

Thank You again Dr Phil for airing this show, and trying to educate people about Hyperemesis.  I watched your show with my husband and I told all my family members to watch your show as well.  I'm hoping that maybe they will have a better understanding of HG thanks to you.

 

 

 

 
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April 15, 2007, 6:36 am PDT

Voices of Change

Having gone through the horrors of HG with my wife, I would like to thank Dr. Phil for bring the national spotlight on this horrific medical condition and I hope that some member of Congress will consider sponsoring legislation to increase research funding and treatment for HG.

 

However, there are two other voices who have not been appropriately recognized on this message board.

 

Thie first is that of Mike Holfeld of WKMG TV in Orlando, Florida who first brought the local spotlight to the bizarre story of the legal events which resulted in this situation.  It was Holfeld who obtained the 9-1-1 audiotape played on Dr. Phil and first aired it in a story on WKMG. 

 

Mr. Holfeld, who had a brief appearance on the program, has dedicated hundreds of hours of hard work to bring to Orlando viewers initially, and now on a national basis, the story of Allison Quets, even selflessly devoting a week's vacation time over the past Chrsitmas holiday to working on the story when he could have been spending the time on vacation with his family.

 

Mr. Holfeld is a veteran reporter.

 

Quoting from his professional bio, at http://www.local6.com/newsteam/66412/detail.html,

 

"His reports on parents losing a pregnancy to miscarriage led to the passage of the Grieving Parents Law. Now, Florida parents have the right to hold a memorial service no matter when the miscarriage occurs.

 

'"His work has earned a long list of honors. Since December 2003 he has earned 6 Emmy nominations, winning two along with an AP award, two green eyeshade awards, the Society of Professional Journalists Award of Excellence and The Sunshine State Award."

 

Ironically, the call letters for his home station are in memoriam for a woman who did much for this country, Katherine Meyer Graham, the late owner and publisher of The Washington Post.

 

Having been contacted by Mr. Holfeld, I find him to be what his biography says, an ethical professional veteran journalist.

 

I personally would like to thank Mr. Holfeld, and the News Director and managment of WKMG for allowing Mr. Holfeld to have the time to unravel this story and document it in his stories on WKMG, for without Mr. Holfeld's original ground-breaking reports, this HG program on Dr. Phil would never have happened.

 

The second individual, who has a very low profile in this situation but who first contacted me last September and we have had several conversations since, is Charles Hannasch, a freelance journalist also based in Florida with both legal and legislative experience and who was totally flabbergasted when he learned of the 9-1-1 tape, 

 

Again, a very ethical, honest, professional veteran journalist.

 

Hannasch's professional biography can be viewed at www.writers.net/writers/95321.

 

As a freelance journalist, Hannasch is to be respected for doing what he is doing because it all comes out his funds, since he does not have the financial support of a broadcast television syndicate such as Dr. Phil or a TV station like MIke Holfeld.

 

Like Holfeld who gave up a week of Christmas vacation with his family, Hannasch has givern hundreds, if not perhaps even more than a thousand hours, unraveling and documenting this story and other cases of injustice in America's family law court system in preparation for an investigative book that, in the end, may or may not be bought by a publishing house. 

 

I have no doubt that with Holfeld's record of being a journalist who has already successfully changed Florida state law with his broadcast reports, and Hannasch's dogged paper chase to document abuses and corruption in the family law court system of this country. and his legal and legislative background and experience, that this pair are voices of change who will fight ande change Florida state law to provide new protections for women such as Allison Quets and others. 

 

 

 
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April 15, 2007, 7:30 am PDT

This hit a nerve huh?

Quote From: maesmommy

I have to agree with Camera.  I also have to criticize Dr. Phil.  The adoption side of this should not have been discussed, unless the adoptive family was there to defend themselves.  How many of you all have adopted children??  I HAVE!!!  I can't have children of my own, so I adopted, but I adopted internationally because of my fear of this exact situation.  I didn't want a birth mother coming back and saying, "I changed my mind. I want my baby back." 

 

The adoptive family was actually very gracious.  They had an open adoption, but they went above and beyond the call of duty and look what it got them.  Their adoptive children kidnapped at Christmas.  The only "Parents" these toddlers have known have been the adoptive parents.  I still worry about my two yr old, she was adopted at 10 months from China.  Even at such a young age, there can be attachment issues. 

 

Another part of this I would like to address.  Where was her family, sister and everyone who is there in the media supporting her now??  Where were they when she was having so much trouble.  The only person supporting her was an ex-boyfriend?? 

 

If you can share some documentation of detachment and paranoia in a large sample size of children moved from one home to another at 18 mos, then I will stand corrected.  If not, then I don't think your own situation is representative of what would happen to the Quets twins.

 

Contact any adoption agency, especially those specializing in waiting children, older children, special needs children or international adoption.  BEtter yet, talk to a social worker.  It does happen.  Look up reactive attachment disorder.  You stand corrected. 

 

Florida does not have a waiting/cooling off period.  If Ms. Quets doesn't like the laws in Florida, then maybe she should do something to change it. 

 

Kara

There is a whole background story to what Dr. Phil presented on his show - I am in Ottawa where Allison fled last Dec and her story was front-page with a ton of investigative journalism ... Allison hoped that Canada would offer her some legal protection but she was simply removed as she was not admissable to be in Canada (a criminal charge will do that). 

 

I was quite impressed at how Dr. Phil navigated the shoals of presenting only one side and saying that both the x-b/f and the adoptive family HAD been invited and had refused to participate.  No doubt they refused to participate ... because Dr. Phil would have asked them all some pretty pointed questions about what "went down" ..

 

Adoption is good and fine when it happens in an open, transparent and ethical way .. but when "shennanigans" are included ... yes adoptive parents should have cause for concern. 

 

As to the Florida law .. I am sure it's unconstitutional - an affront to life - liberty and the pursuit of happiness in some way ...

 

I really hope Allison gets her kids back - that the whole story is exposed for the fraud it was and most of all I agree with Dr. Phil that Allison does not belong shackled and in an orange jumpsuit ... simply ridiculous !!!

 
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April 15, 2007, 9:25 am PDT

twins kidnapping

Quote From: flrat69

You must really be chasing shadows if that's your arguement.  This woman is a victim.  half baked tirades won't change that. People who make the case for the prospective adoptive parents should at least sound as if they are rational people.  One more from the top.  In Florida, these people are NOT adoptive parents as long as the birth mother's parental rights have not been terminated.  That's not a tirade.  That's a fact.  Bottom line that.

Hello, your arguement makes no sense what so ever. Quest has emotionally abuse these babies by her selfish-self serving needs. If she continues on this path those children will be forever a mess emotionally. So if I hear you right, your saying that all non-custodial parent are entitled to kidnap their children from the legal guardian so long as their paternal rights have not been terminated. LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!!! Talk about not making sense. So you think it was ok for her to change her mind not once, not twice but even when seh considered another couple for a 3rd time. How many times should she be allowed to fly on the OH, I was an emotional wreck. OH, PLEASE.

 
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April 15, 2007, 9:42 am PDT

Who else?

Quote From: victoria20110

Just because they've been "parenting" the twins for two years doesn't mean that they are 1) parents or  2) good parents.

 

I've raised 4 kids, three of them stepkids we had sole custody of.  I had a wicked time hanging on to my pregnancy [lost 4 prior  to have my daughter *and* I have a sister who had HG 3 times.   I know that being a adoptive parents and stepparents can absolutely rock.  I know what it takes to have a kid when your pregnancy is not "normal."  So I'm sympathetic to both sides.

 

But, what kind of people listen to a 911 tape like Alisons and go ahead with an adoption.  Or insist on keeping kids that clearly were theirs under questionable circumstances.  It may not have been  understood before the tapes release, but it certainly was after the tape release.

 

That makes no sense.  Either they are stupid [voluntary surrender is never coerced and clearly the existance of the 911 tape demonstrates she was coerced or they were more focused on having kids in any way they can and didn't care how they got them.

 

If you want to ask/talk about mental instability - I think there is more than just Alison's to consider. 

 

 

Who else would take care of them?  I think it takes a lot of bravery to parent the children in a situation like this.  Someone has to care for them.  I'm sure they look like the bad guys

in this situation, but we don't know the complete facts from an hour long program. 

 

If they have been "parenting" the children for two years, I'd say that qualifies them as parents, whether "good" or "bad", that's the only parents these children know.  It's a very sad situation for them either way.

 
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April 15, 2007, 9:58 am PDT

A person's life is changed forever

Quote From: trie1970

I want to first thank the Dr Phil show for getting the word out about HG. I have had 3 pregnancy with it and I have 1 living child to show for it. I am going to tell a little of my story - I know there is a lot of stories on here - but feel very strong about this and getting the word out. It also is great to tell and talk about my story its healing for me. I will always have the pain and sadness of all of this- but it does help to tell of it. I was 25 years old when I became pregnant and thrilled as more. Then 2 - 3 weeks later I started with the non stop vomiting. My doctor and nurse told me to try this and that diet - and do this and not that. I started out going for IVs 2 - 3 times a week - either a 3 - 4 hour visit or a over night stay. My veins are hard to find - so I was sent home with hep-locs so I could keep the IVs in and not get poked more than need be.. From there I had 2 different pic-lines in my arms - and after awhile I had a central line put into my chest. I was put on every kind of medicine they could think of - but nothing worked. I had to switch to a specialty doctor and hospital that was over 40 minutes from my home, family and friends. To add to the depression of having HG - it was also the holiday season - winter - snow - distance - my dad turned 60 years old - loneness and thinking that everyone else thought you had lost your mind. I did lots of crying those months. I had dangerous low potassium and was hospitalize for that. I was put on TPN - Total Prenatal Nutr. - through the central line and had to check my blood sugar at 4 times a day. I was on that 12 hours a day at home. I lost a total of over 30 pounds. In April I got air into my central line - thank god - my husband was home and has asthma - so he was trying to help me on the way to the ER -- where I was rush by Ambulance with a doctor and nurse to the specialty hospital. Where I had 5 different doctors there for me and my baby - I was put through test after test and on full oxygen and in the ICU for a night. I gave birth to a healthy baby girl in July. The other 2 pregnancy -1999 and 2000, I was just as sick - and talked to the doctors before we even tried to get pregnant and they couldnt say one way or another if it would happen again or not. We so badly wanted a bigger family we had to try more-- which a lot of our family and friends didnt agree and didnt come around much. I was over 10 weeks with both of the pregnancy and they were once again all over the holiday months - and during winter, plus now we had a child to worry about. The 1st one - I could not handle being away from my daughter - I got to see her 2 times a week - if I was lucky and my husband couldnt come by as much with a daughter a home. I was very depress and felt very alone, I couldnt handle it, they had me talk with someone to be sure I knew what I was talking about - wanting to end the pregnancy - I knew what they wanted to hear so they ever gave me any problems. I was on TPN again with that. The next pregnancy the doctors told me in plain English that it could be deadly for me and / or the baby - or I could come out of it not healthy - so that pregnancy was ended per the doctor. I was one TPN with that one also.. Only after they tried other things - because they had found out that TPN was not healthy. I was on a nose feeding tube at home 24 hours a day - I was on steroids - but the only amount that helped me was not a healthy amount. It was like everything we tried that worked was going to harm me and my baby.. One ate away at my bones and one ate away at my muscle.. There was no choice - as my husband reminds me to this day. But to this day - I am thankful for my daughter -- but it hurts to know she is alone. We have looked into adoption - and working on it -- but it is a lot harder then people let on -- I know why people dont do it and why there are so many kids in foster care -- it is very sad to think of that. But that is a whole other story. I do have my daughter -- but I do feel so robbed of my pregnancy - the morning sickness - and pregnant belly - I never even really felt her move or kick. I since have remorse - I see pregnant women and family with lots of kids and I get so mad - life is so unfair.. I know there are still people out there that think it was in my head and I could have done something. HG is not heard of much - and you really do feel so alone going through it -- it needs more attention and needs to be talked about so those of us who dealt with it can get help and heal more I will never be completely heal - but it does help.. Thanks again for talking of it.. Anyone going through it needs to know they are not alone and there are others. Its not in their minds - it is real.. I only wish I could have seen this show and heard about all this ahead of time and had support for myself and for my husband - more information need to be out there Support is something we all need - what I wouldnt have done for someone to come and visit me in the hospital all those times just to sit in the room with me..   As for the mom in this show -- I am torn on what should happen -- with her and kids --  I see it from someone who had HG and I see it from someone who wants to adopt and know people who have..  But HG does change a person's life forever...

I like you look at pregnant women and am saddened and think how unfair it is for us with HG. I am somewhat bitter inside after suffering with this. My heart aches to have a healthy pregnancy .  We are are robbed that feeling of excitement as our bellies grow as we are stuck in bed with Iv's,Pic lines and feeding tubes and wondering if we will survive this.  i have to agree with you that our lives are changed forever. I am not the same person I was before HG.

 

Best of luck adopting a a baby!!!.

 
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April 15, 2007, 10:03 am PDT

Thank you

Quote From: angelaura28

Hello all of you . . . ! Wow, that person who attacked all of you and Allison. Sometimes this world is scary.

I have never suffered hyperemesis and never well. Because I choose not to become pregnant in this lifetime. I have female issues [one ovary and cysts on the remaining one and decided, as a single woman in her 40s and overweight; my children will come to me via adoption.

Nevertheless, I have had stomach flu [recently and spent three days feeling like you dear, strong individuals feel for months! I prayed, begged and thought about death or a coma for all three days, as I rolled around the floor and didn't think I'd survive! For nine months or one more day would've had me out of my mind even more! Thus, no, I could never agree that's it's easy to get through hyperemesis; or even morning sickness for three months! [my best friend had three months of morning sickness and I thought she was going to vomit the child up!

As the woman on Dr. Phil said -- After what I just went through for only three days; I would think I'd consider and pray for the ending of the pregnancy. I have no threshold for that kind of pain. I've also had food poisoning about three times!!! To the person who put you all down with her post "oh please" . . . I don't wish ill on anyone, but yeah, she should try food poisoning or stomach flu for even a day or two . . . and then tell us how she feels?!

May peace be there for all of you . . . and Allison and her twins. And the custodial parents.

Love and Light,
Angela Theresa

Thank you for caring and best of luck bringing a child into your life via adoption!

 
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April 15, 2007, 10:10 am PDT

Hg not w every pregnancy...

Quote From: ohplease21

Ok,

 

First of all to all of you who claim to have suffered from HG.  IF it is SO awful (and maybe it is, I don't know) WHY ON EARTH would you keep getting pregnant after delivering a healthy baby?  So many of these posts are "I had HG too, it is so awful, I had it with all 15 of my babies".  Of course I am exagerating, but you get my point.  It apparently wasn't bad enough to dissuade you from doing it again.

 

Second, Allison was not suffering from this disease any longer when she signed the papers....so HG can not be used as an excuse for giving her babies away.  Did ANYONE ELSE on this board griping about the misery of HG place their babies for adoption?  No?  Didn't think so.

 

Third, she kidnapped the children 16 MONTHS later.  So, you are going to tell me that HG made her do that too?

 

Fourth, for all of you spouting the children's "blood right" stay with Allison even though she is obviously unstable, the children were conceived with donor eggs and donor sperm.  SO, if you want to look at it that way Allison is not their "parent" either.  I wonder what the genetic parents would think of this situation if they knew.  Who THEY would want raising these children.

 

Fifth, the adoptive parents are likely not going public because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  They are fighting in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.  They did nothing wrong, why should they have to go on national television and defend themselves?

 

Feel free to keep belly aching about how horrible this "disease" is, I am not saying it's not.  My point is it must not be THAT bad or women would not go through another pg after suffering through it once.  My personal opinion, surprise surprise, is that it is too bad they are only charging her with parental kidnapping.  She should be in prison for life after what she did, but instead she will likely only serve 3 years.  If she gets those children back, it will be a travesty.

Hg doesn't affect every pg.  There may be differing amounts of hormone levels with each subsequent pregnancy.  A woman may have hg with her 1st pg, then go on to have a couple of "normal" pg's. 

 

I do agree about the adoptive parents.  We don't know from just a 911 tape that THEY themselves coerced her (may have been the attorney, she may have been unstable).  I don't think they should have to defend themselves, and would put themselves through vicious exposure and may have been advised not to appear.

 

I don't however, think she should be in prison for life over something she did out of emotional duress.  She needs treatment, not to rot.  HG drains your electrolytes, nutrients, and fluids which affected her particular decision-making ability (not w every woman, but in her case).  I also believe the woman had Post Partum, which also affects judgment.  That was a double whammy influencing her behavior.  Effective treatment improves behavior and decision-making ability.

 

Is the adoption document that she signed legally binding, I didn't catch whether it was or whether she still had parental rights.

 
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