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Topic : 04/12 Twin Tug of War

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Created on : Friday, April 06, 2007, 11:39:40 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Allison Quets made headlines around the world when she allegedly kidnapped her 17-month-old twins across the border into Canada this past Christmas. She had given them up for adoption, but did she do so under duress? She now says she suffered from a pregnancy disease called hyperemesis that left her malnourished and sleep deprived to the point of complete exhaustion. See an exclusive interview with Allison from behind bars where she awaits trial on two counts of international parental kidnapping, with a possible sentence of three years behind bars. Then, look inside the life of a woman who is only three-and-a-half months pregnant and so sick with hyperemesis she spends most of her day on the bathroom floor. Plus, find out what all women need to know about hyperemesis: How you get it, how to know you have it, and whether it could kill you or your unborn child. Join the discussion.

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April 16, 2007, 11:18 am PDT

Hyperemesis Hell

I'm 22, and have a son who is 2 and a daughter who is almost one.  I am also 4 months pregnant with Baby # 3 and am suffering with my third pregnancy with hyperemesis.  All my cases have been severe, and I have been through literally every medication that they could offer me.  In the past, nothing has EVER worked at all, and I suffer 24 hours a day through the ENTIRE pregnancy, but this past time that I was hospitalized, when the next resort was the TPN Implant, we found a batch of medications that were working, and I felt amazing for a few days... until I found out that my insurance would not pay for anymore of two of my medicines.  Now over the past couple of weeks, I have steadily declined again and am very frustrated.  I can relate to all the women who suffer the most severe of these cases, and hope every day that someone comes up with something that REALLY HELPS.  It is 2007 and we cannot stop this?  Furthermore, I am so happy this topic was on the show because no one knows about this condition!  And when people DO hear about it, they downplay it, they roll their eyes, they tell you to pull up your bootstraps.  Something with this condition HAS to change.  Thank you Dr. Phil and GENIUS Staff for shining a little light on this overlooked disease.  Please devote an entire show to it!  We women who suffer from this would gladly share our stories to educate the public on the REALITY of this terrible sickness and reach out to other women who are suffering and not even aware of options they  may have for treatment that MIGHT be successful.  When you deal with this monster, you soon realize that you would do ANYTHING to get rid of it: go through labor EVERY day for a year, eat live ants, cut off your leg, ANYTHING, if only you could stop the sickness.  The lonely and hopeless desperation, fatigue, nausea and frustration are only bolstered by the fact that no one really cares, no one offers to help, no one makes allowances for your limited contributions.  It would be like having the worst food poisoning of your life for MONTHS on end, 24 hours a day with NO reprieve, and everyone telling you to get up and wash the dishes or grocery shop or chase after the kids for the millionth time.  You feel helpless and no one understands.  People become frustrated with YOU instead of assistance and the sympathy you deserve and need.  I would not wish hyperemesis on my worst enemy, but if everyone had to experience it for just one week, everything would change.  I really hope that this was the "first domino" in a long line of educational and medical resources that will be coming to help us and our families in the future.   
 
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April 16, 2007, 11:50 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: jennifermilam

I'm 22, and have a son who is 2 and a daughter who is almost one.  I am also 4 months pregnant with Baby # 3 and am suffering with my third pregnancy with hyperemesis.  All my cases have been severe, and I have been through literally every medication that they could offer me.  In the past, nothing has EVER worked at all, and I suffer 24 hours a day through the ENTIRE pregnancy, but this past time that I was hospitalized, when the next resort was the TPN Implant, we found a batch of medications that were working, and I felt amazing for a few days... until I found out that my insurance would not pay for anymore of two of my medicines.  Now over the past couple of weeks, I have steadily declined again and am very frustrated.  I can relate to all the women who suffer the most severe of these cases, and hope every day that someone comes up with something that REALLY HELPS.  It is 2007 and we cannot stop this?  Furthermore, I am so happy this topic was on the show because no one knows about this condition!  And when people DO hear about it, they downplay it, they roll their eyes, they tell you to pull up your bootstraps.  Something with this condition HAS to change.  Thank you Dr. Phil and GENIUS Staff for shining a little light on this overlooked disease.  Please devote an entire show to it!  We women who suffer from this would gladly share our stories to educate the public on the REALITY of this terrible sickness and reach out to other women who are suffering and not even aware of options they  may have for treatment that MIGHT be successful.  When you deal with this monster, you soon realize that you would do ANYTHING to get rid of it: go through labor EVERY day for a year, eat live ants, cut off your leg, ANYTHING, if only you could stop the sickness.  The lonely and hopeless desperation, fatigue, nausea and frustration are only bolstered by the fact that no one really cares, no one offers to help, no one makes allowances for your limited contributions.  It would be like having the worst food poisoning of your life for MONTHS on end, 24 hours a day with NO reprieve, and everyone telling you to get up and wash the dishes or grocery shop or chase after the kids for the millionth time.  You feel helpless and no one understands.  People become frustrated with YOU instead of assistance and the sympathy you deserve and need.  I would not wish hyperemesis on my worst enemy, but if everyone had to experience it for just one week, everything would change.  I really hope that this was the "first domino" in a long line of educational and medical resources that will be coming to help us and our families in the future.   

Thank you for sharing your story.

 

It is so sad the way women with HG are often treated by medical professionals who are supposed to be helping them.

 

You and I, as well as countless other women, have been repeatedly told how much our treatment costs... that something needs to be done... that we need to be taken off of our meds or use cheaper meds that we know do not work for us or do not give us the quality of life that we deserve. This is one of the reasons why women with HG fear death. When you are repeatedly told that your care is costing too much and threatened to have treatment taken away because of it, it is terrifying!

 

I was also spoken to much in the same manner that you were by a Dr. who is a Colonel in the United States Army. She told me about how my illness was in my head, that she would likely take me off of my meds, that my meds cost too much, and that I was harming my unborn baby by taking the meds. When she saw that I was not going to agree with her, she stopped speaking to me and instead told my husband about how I was harming his unborn child by taking these meds. ... Even though my husband saw the hell I was going through, and was my biggest advocate, he too was worried about our son and thought that she might have a point.

 

I'm afraid the ignorance of this disease can make it even more difficult for women to get through it.

 
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April 16, 2007, 11:53 am PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: jennifermilam

I'm 22, and have a son who is 2 and a daughter who is almost one.  I am also 4 months pregnant with Baby # 3 and am suffering with my third pregnancy with hyperemesis.  All my cases have been severe, and I have been through literally every medication that they could offer me.  In the past, nothing has EVER worked at all, and I suffer 24 hours a day through the ENTIRE pregnancy, but this past time that I was hospitalized, when the next resort was the TPN Implant, we found a batch of medications that were working, and I felt amazing for a few days... until I found out that my insurance would not pay for anymore of two of my medicines.  Now over the past couple of weeks, I have steadily declined again and am very frustrated.  I can relate to all the women who suffer the most severe of these cases, and hope every day that someone comes up with something that REALLY HELPS.  It is 2007 and we cannot stop this?  Furthermore, I am so happy this topic was on the show because no one knows about this condition!  And when people DO hear about it, they downplay it, they roll their eyes, they tell you to pull up your bootstraps.  Something with this condition HAS to change.  Thank you Dr. Phil and GENIUS Staff for shining a little light on this overlooked disease.  Please devote an entire show to it!  We women who suffer from this would gladly share our stories to educate the public on the REALITY of this terrible sickness and reach out to other women who are suffering and not even aware of options they  may have for treatment that MIGHT be successful.  When you deal with this monster, you soon realize that you would do ANYTHING to get rid of it: go through labor EVERY day for a year, eat live ants, cut off your leg, ANYTHING, if only you could stop the sickness.  The lonely and hopeless desperation, fatigue, nausea and frustration are only bolstered by the fact that no one really cares, no one offers to help, no one makes allowances for your limited contributions.  It would be like having the worst food poisoning of your life for MONTHS on end, 24 hours a day with NO reprieve, and everyone telling you to get up and wash the dishes or grocery shop or chase after the kids for the millionth time.  You feel helpless and no one understands.  People become frustrated with YOU instead of assistance and the sympathy you deserve and need.  I would not wish hyperemesis on my worst enemy, but if everyone had to experience it for just one week, everything would change.  I really hope that this was the "first domino" in a long line of educational and medical resources that will be coming to help us and our families in the future.   

I also thought you made an excellent point that people get frustrated with you.

 

That is very true.  ... Sometimes even the people who are your lifeline and your biggest supporters don't fully understand. They can become stressed and frustrated. Sometimes this frustration isn't just about you but also the situation... and it can be directed at you.

 

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April 16, 2007, 12:10 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: gracieandmatt

My 26 year old daughter had all the symptoms of HD during her pregnancy.  We were never  told that she had this disorder but she was treated in the exact same manner.

 

However!  She is still suffering all the same symptoms and her son is 2 years old!  To complicate the situation she is also diabetic.  Her life is pure misery.  She spent 3 weeks in the hospital this past month.  She had a PIC line put in and she was sent home.  To tell her story would just repeat the stories on the show. 

 

Does anyone have any insights on this? Are there any other cases out there where the symptoms continue after pregnancy?  When she first delivered her baby (who by the way is a wonderful healthy little boy) her symptoms seemed like gallstones and she had her gallbladder removed.  She improved briefly but in the last year has become progressively worse.  The drs have talked about a hysterectomy but have delayed it for over a year - waiting for her body to "get stronger".  They also gave her a Lupron shot to shut down her hormones - it helped some as well, but it is not helping at all now and she is on a third shot. Now I am wondering if a hysterectomy will help her?   

I am so sorry she is suffering like this. I've struggled greatly since my last HG pregnancy, but nothing nearly so severe as your daughter's illness.  I'm nauseous, still puke some, and have terrible exhaustion. 

 

A few things come to mind that I wonder about  with the symptoms you mention, and I will just throw out to you: 1. thyroid function; 2. liver function.  An abdominal ultra sound can tell a lot, but not everything.  Gallbladder was my first thought, but that's not it. .  Are liver enzymes normal?  Is there intestinal damage from the HG?  Reflux damage to her esophagus?  Endoscopy can diagnose intestinal damage, ulcers, and the like.  Has her pituitary been checked?  Have her beta HCG levels been evaluated to see if there is any hormone still being produced?  Have her ovaries been checked? I know some of us struggle A LOT postpartum, but to be so ill two years later...how awful.  I would actually encourage you to contact Dr. Goodwin or HER's founder for some insights.

 

I agree you should visit the Hyperemesis Education and Research Foundation site and exploring  research data about recovery as well as some encouragement.  www.helpher.org or www.hyperemesis.org 

 

So sorry this is happening.

 
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April 16, 2007, 12:25 pm PDT

Finally a show on HG: THANK YOU!

 Dear Dr. Phil:
I have been writing to Oprah for years, trying to get a show on this horrible illness.  Thank you for "making it real" for a national audience!  Those of us who have truely suffered with HG know what it's like for somebody to say, "Oh yes, I was sick too" or "It will get better around 12 weeks" or "Eat a cracker with some peanut butter" or "watermelon always worked for me when I had an upset stomach"  UGH!  These days I have gotten to the point where I smile and nod without a comment to refute their statement... but believe me, I want to! 

I am a proud mom of 3 beautiful children.  They are 5, 4, and 1.  It didn't take long to figure out something was the matter with my first pregnancy!  At about 6 weeks I began excessive vomiting each time I would move (which made working rather difficult!).  By 8 weeks I had lost 12 pounds and the weight kept coming off.  The sicker I got, the sicker I got... has anybody ever felt that same way?  It was like I just could not recover!  I had to quit my great-paying job out of desperation.  I felt like I could not work or think rationally.  My husband was my rock, so for that I am truely blessed.  After losing 27 pounds, spending too much time checked into the hospital and trying to convince everyone that I was not CHOOSING to be sick, I got a PICC line.  My TPN cocktail was on for 16 hours per day.  My LR fluids were on for 8 hours per day.  Like everyone else I tried every drug in the book (none of them worked) until finally I was given IV Zofran.  What a miracle drug, although I still felt sick, I was at least able to keep most food down!

I often wonder why I chose to do this another 2 times (with the same HG).  I think it's because those children are SO worth it!  I look into the eyes of my sweet children and think, "Maybe I could do it again."  Even though while I am pregnant I am certain I am going to die each time.

Hugs to all of you out there with such amazing stories of courage and strength!

~Annette, MN
 
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April 16, 2007, 1:22 pm PDT

?

Quote From: chasingshadows

Hello, your arguement makes no sense what so ever. Quest has emotionally abuse these babies by her selfish-self serving needs. If she continues on this path those children will be forever a mess emotionally. So if I hear you right, your saying that all non-custodial parent are entitled to kidnap their children from the legal guardian so long as their paternal rights have not been terminated. LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!!! Talk about not making sense. So you think it was ok for her to change her mind not once, not twice but even when seh considered another couple for a 3rd time. How many times should she be allowed to fly on the OH, I was an emotional wreck. OH, PLEASE.

Regrettably, you emotional ravings are exactly that and contain no facts.  Please try to contain yourself until you can approach the subject with an open and logical mind.
 
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April 16, 2007, 3:20 pm PDT

Pink Bucket

I have tried to throw away my puking pale several times, but my hubby keeps finding it and pulling it out of the trash. He won't part with it and won't tell me why... just smiles and says it's part of the family now as he puts it back on display in our playroom. Anyone else holding onto their pink puking pale from the hospital?
 
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April 16, 2007, 3:58 pm PDT

04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: latashaw

I also suffered with HG but will not go into detail about my ordeal as so many women have already done so.  I will say that I went through it three times and made the decission not to go through it again although I would love to have more children.  I always tell people I would give birth to a football team as long as someone else went through the pregnancy because for me that is the worst part. 

One thing that I did not see in any of the post that I read was any one that dealt with depression.  With my third child I dealt with severe depression, which my OB/GYN took more serious than my HG.  If you also suffered with depression, please let me know.  Is that a part of the HG or something different that only I experienced?

I am happy to hear that some of you were able to get your families to watch the show and they realized that you were not crazy nor lazy.  Unfortunatly my husband and my mother said they did not want to watch the show, but I have it on DVR and they WILL watch it!!

 

Once again THANK YOU Dr. Phil!!!!

Like you I also suffered with HG 3 times, but I did have one normal pregnancy with no HG whatsoever. Since my third pregnancy was so fabulous, I decided I would get pregnant again. Unfortunately, the HG returned and was worse than ever before. After I gave birth I felt wonderful, and this feeling lasted about 4 weeks. Then I could tell something wasn't right. I began to get depressed. By the time my daughter was 6 months old, I had had a severe mental breakdown. I had no desire to care for not only my new baby, but any of my other children either. I had never thought I could feel that way towards my children.  I had no desire to live, and felt that everyone would be better off without me. My doctor diagnosed me with severe post-pardom depression, and I was hospitalized for 4 days. When I returned home, my life was upside down. My family had stepped in to care for my children while I recovered. My husband took off work for 3 weeks, and cared for me at home. I was put on a variety of different medications and I started therapy immediately. I had horrible side-effects to every medication my doctor prescribe me, and eventually he took me off of everything, and suggested I change my diet and exercise regularly. Believe it or not, it worked. For a while at least, I was thriving and felt almost normal again. Then a few months later the depression came back with avengence. I have once again been battling the depression one day at a time. I have a wonderful and supportive husband who is devistated by this.  My doctor believes that my depression is caused by Post-Traumatic-Stress Disorder, steming from having HG 3 times in a short period of time. If you would like to talk again, feel free to write me whenever you need to. I will say a prayer for you and your family. Take care.

M.D. in California 

 
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April 16, 2007, 7:03 pm PDT

2 wrongs don't make it right!

Quote From: gwarrior6

To ohplease:  I'll take your case!

 

I think that some posters, in an attempt to understand an obscure illness, will make a blanket statement they KNOW will offend.  Conflict and argument can also be tools of clarification.  That's why debate teams are formed in high school and college, so that you can understand two sides of an issue and decide for yourself how you feel about it.  I probably would have just asked a question because you catch more flies with honey.  The power of "nice" is usually more effective in my experience.

 

Second, ohplease makes a good point about the adoptive parents and any potential rights they may have.  Not only that, but the children have been with them for so long, they may have problems attaching to people or being taken from the only caretakers they've known.

 

SO, instead of character assasination, lets attack the ignorance, not the poster.  I think that you battle a post like that with information and personal experience.  You may gain a friend out of it.

Let's see - take advantage of a woman who was ill, refuse to do the right thing and give them back when she changes her mind immediately and the 'adoptive' parents have not yet signed or filed the papers - less than 24 hrs later, then bring trauma on the children by taking them from the mom they have bonded with for over 10 months (9  months before birth), refuse to allow the mother visitation as the court said, then keep fighting in court for years until the mother cracks and ends up in jail out of a desperate attempt to 'protect her kids'... Now keep the kids because this has been going on so long --- oh and send the mother away to either be childless or try and adopt a child of her own. Oh wait - she can't - she is broke from the legal bills and totally devastated. The Needhams now have 3 kids, and Allison - none (well, actually minus 2). Gosh, that seems like justice to me - don't you think!?! NOT! That is not logical or rational!

That is exactly what keeps the money in the adoption firms hands - taking advantage of mothers who can't fight back or litigating it until the mother breaks or is broke financially. It's a hard reality, but go to some of the adoption sites and read about this practice - or read some of the books on adoption. It's a tactic they use intentionally. I have done some digging in order to understand this case, and I tell you - this is just another case adoption 'professionals' don't want to lose - especially now that it is in the media. If they can't make the natural/biological mom look crazy and unstable (even when she is not) - they lose public support. They don't want to be seen as villains - they want to keep their image as hero's who save babies from abusive or incompetent mothers.

But... Now there is Allison... Let's take this mom who is older, has (or had) money, and did fertility for an intentional pregnancy - NOT your stereotypical mother giving up a child for adoption. She doesn't fit the profile - people can't 'judge' her for being poor, young, underprivileged or whatever they expect a mom to look like. This makes it harder to accept taking her babies away and saying it is for the best. There is no justifying this removal of kids. So, how do they get people to buy into this 'adoption' - there is no reason to say this is ok except some ridiculous technicality of the law that was probably put there by someone who benefits from adoption - or someone makes money from these situations.

People must realize that there has to be some other issue causing her to make a decision most of us wouldn't. There has to be more to this - a mom doesn't go through fertility for years then give up her kids without some pressure or threats - those obviously did not last after she signed since she said no immediately. Can anyone shed more light? Maybe that boyfriend? Probably not since he was driving her there. However, it sounds like he didn't want her to have the kids since he took her there. Anyone know why? I wonder if the 'adoptive' parents pressured her? Or, we go back to the attorneys since that seems to be what other women say - they were coerced.

Somehow, in order to keep the kids, the family with the kids has to make Allison look like an unstable nut case so they will keep the kids - even if it is wrong to do so. Oh and along the way,  don't allow visitation so she goes weeks without visits - and feels intensely desperate to be with the kids she is scared of being in the hands of people who may not have their best interest in mind (evidence - they would not return them when she asked them immediately - that is cruel). When she finally can't take it anymore and probably feels she won't see them again, she runs - what pretty much any scared mother would do - and then she is portrayed as crazy and a kidnapper. I see their logic, but it's cruel logic. Her act of running - right or wrong - is not an unusual thought in that situation. I ask what you would do.

Oh and did anyone notice how many other missing kids are out there - many - sadly! Why are the parents who abducted them not in jail or being pursued by the FBI? Seems strange that this mom is getting the royal treatment by law enforcement. Check out missingchild.worldpress.com - they have some interesting articles on this mom. One mentions that astronaut in TX who is facing 3 felonies - she is out on bail, but this mom is still in jail. Why? Seems odd to me. Ideas anyone?

I feel we do have to take a step in her shoes before we judge. For some reason only she can say, she strongly felt the kids needed protection. Doesn't someone want to ask why? I wish she had said on the interview. I want to know. She waited over a year and a half for the court to settle this - and it's still going.  Why doesn't everyone (besides the other family) see this huge injustice to her?

I was neutral at first but have read and watched this long enough to see the big picture and can't believe our court system is not resolving this before the lives of this mother and her twins are forever severed - or they are traumatized terribly. As a mom, I can't imagine not being with the kids I went through so much to have. I would feel desperate and frustrated and confused. I don't know what I would do. But I'm not sure I could sit and wait for years while my kids grew up and I was missing more and more of their lives and losing more connection with them. They are her kids. Is that not our right as a parent - to raise our kids? Maybe she was sick at the time, but that doesn't give others the right to take them away forever. Give her treatment and give her kids back. She is their mother.

Time is ultimately irrelevant in this case - you don't right a wrong by doing something else wrong - what is the point of having a justice system then?
 
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April 16, 2007, 8:44 pm PDT

WHy do you make such a decision?

Quote From: gwarrior6

I agree that Allison was NOT stable when she did this.  BUT I think that more than just HG contributed to her decision making (or lack of judgment).  Hg doesn't turn most women into paranoid wrecks.  There was a lot of hormonal imbalance as well as lack of nutrients to account for.  I don't think this woman is the best poster child for this disease.  HG by itself doesn't cause you to go take the kids to another country knowing the circumstances would probably bite her in the rear. 

She had a lot going on in addition to the Hg (I think she was severely depressed and the Hg made it worse).  It was the icing on the cake.  If the woman was sound upstairs, she would have hired an attorney that specializes in adoption law and not just take the kids. 

 

Allison may have another undiagnosed mental condition that led her to make these choices, NOT the Hg.  I personally think (as I've stated before) that she had Post Partum Depression, and didn't know it.  Because she was so depleted from the Hg, it probably went undiagnosed.  Either way, she needs a psych eval to be sure before she gets those kids back (if she ever does).

 I don't think we can decide why Allison made the choices she did and I certainly don't think most of us have walked a mile in her shoes. HG and the meds you take for it can make you depressed and anxious. Going to fertility treatments - with all the hormones - often makes women depressed. Not having a committed partner when you are going through HG certainly makes a HUGE difference. Those of us going through HG often give up or suffer more if we don't have someone there daily to help us remember why we are sick - to remind us we are pregnant. Let's look at this again - HG did not make her go to Canada - you are right. However, HG did put her in a very weak state and I bet she didn't get much sleep. Any mom's out there up with twins all night? My kids were very poor sleepers and I had a really hard time thinking for months. Couldn't make decisions, etc. So Allison is sleep deprived for months, is being pressured by at least her boyfriend and the attorneys (and most likely the Needhams), can't think clearly and feels she is going to die. I doubt the adoption attorneys came in and suggested she get help and not do the adoption. That would mean no money for them. I'm sure the Needhams didn't tell her to do that and it sure doesn't sound like they came by to help her at all so she could get back on her feet and make a sound decision.

Your assumption she did not hire an atty that specializes in adoption law could be unfounded. I don't think there are that many attorneys that want to take on the messy cases like this. She said she had a talented legal team and we know she paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for legal help...  Do you know who her attorneys were? I would like to know - I'm guessing they were pretty good at that rate. She was following the law and court process for over 18 months - it's not like she just sat around for a year thinking about, then grabbed them and ran. She was fighting for them for many months and nothing was happening - she wasn't getting to see her kids often - didn't she say every three weeks? That is sad.

I would say there is no doubt she had PPD and likely PTSS. She was only 5 weeks after delivery and those are not typically diagnosed until after that point. She probably had not even had her final checkup after delivery. If you listened to the Doctor on the show, he said how women are normal a few months after pregnancy although they are struggling while pregnant.  She didn't get the chance to recover before she was pushed to make a decision she didn't want to make. After that many months of sleep loss and illness, I would certainly doubt my ability to cope and survive. That is not irrational. I would actually more scared if she tried to tough it out and ended up with psychosis. She tried to protect the kids from harm - she said she didn't want to take them down with her. That sounds like a caring mom. She didn't know what to do about it and it seems she was really just offered adoption. I have not heard her say any other options were suggested. It doesn't sound like her friends were stepping in and really doing enough to help her get by. That probably made her feel she couldn't do it, too. We have to look at the whole picture. She certainly was ok before - she had the same job for 2 decades and is very educated. You don't have that type resume if you are a wacko.

Let's offer this mom support and a chance to parent her own kids. There are people that can evaluate her and make sure she is doing ok. That is better than just taking them away - that is cruel for both her and her kids.
 
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