Topic : 04/12 Twin Tug of War

Quote From: busyparents

Let's see - take advantage of a woman who was ill, refuse to do the right thing and give them back when she changes her mind immediately and the 'adoptive' parents have not yet signed or filed the papers - less than 24 hrs later, then bring trauma on the children by taking them from the mom they have bonded with for over 10 months (9  months before birth), refuse to allow the mother visitation as the court said, then keep fighting in court for years until the mother cracks and ends up in jail out of a desperate attempt to 'protect her kids'... Now keep the kids because this has been going on so long --- oh and send the mother away to either be childless or try and adopt a child of her own. Oh wait - she can't - she is broke from the legal bills and totally devastated. The Needhams now have 3 kids, and Allison - none (well, actually minus 2). Gosh, that seems like justice to me - don't you think!?! NOT! That is not logical or rational!

That is exactly what keeps the money in the adoption firms hands - taking advantage of mothers who can't fight back or litigating it until the mother breaks or is broke financially. It's a hard reality, but go to some of the adoption sites and read about this practice - or read some of the books on adoption. It's a tactic they use intentionally. I have done some digging in order to understand this case, and I tell you - this is just another case adoption 'professionals' don't want to lose - especially now that it is in the media. If they can't make the natural/biological mom look crazy and unstable (even when she is not) - they lose public support. They don't want to be seen as villains - they want to keep their image as hero's who save babies from abusive or incompetent mothers.

But... Now there is Allison... Let's take this mom who is older, has (or had) money, and did fertility for an intentional pregnancy - NOT your stereotypical mother giving up a child for adoption. She doesn't fit the profile - people can't 'judge' her for being poor, young, underprivileged or whatever they expect a mom to look like. This makes it harder to accept taking her babies away and saying it is for the best. There is no justifying this removal of kids. So, how do they get people to buy into this 'adoption' - there is no reason to say this is ok except some ridiculous technicality of the law that was probably put there by someone who benefits from adoption - or someone makes money from these situations.

People must realize that there has to be some other issue causing her to make a decision most of us wouldn't. There has to be more to this - a mom doesn't go through fertility for years then give up her kids without some pressure or threats - those obviously did not last after she signed since she said no immediately. Can anyone shed more light? Maybe that boyfriend? Probably not since he was driving her there. However, it sounds like he didn't want her to have the kids since he took her there. Anyone know why? I wonder if the 'adoptive' parents pressured her? Or, we go back to the attorneys since that seems to be what other women say - they were coerced.

Somehow, in order to keep the kids, the family with the kids has to make Allison look like an unstable nut case so they will keep the kids - even if it is wrong to do so. Oh and along the way,  don't allow visitation so she goes weeks without visits - and feels intensely desperate to be with the kids she is scared of being in the hands of people who may not have their best interest in mind (evidence - they would not return them when she asked them immediately - that is cruel). When she finally can't take it anymore and probably feels she won't see them again, she runs - what pretty much any scared mother would do - and then she is portrayed as crazy and a kidnapper. I see their logic, but it's cruel logic. Her act of running - right or wrong - is not an unusual thought in that situation. I ask what you would do.

Oh and did anyone notice how many other missing kids are out there - many - sadly! Why are the parents who abducted them not in jail or being pursued by the FBI? Seems strange that this mom is getting the royal treatment by law enforcement. Check out missingchild.worldpress.com - they have some interesting articles on this mom. One mentions that astronaut in TX who is facing 3 felonies - she is out on bail, but this mom is still in jail. Why? Seems odd to me. Ideas anyone?

I feel we do have to take a step in her shoes before we judge. For some reason only she can say, she strongly felt the kids needed protection. Doesn't someone want to ask why? I wish she had said on the interview. I want to know. She waited over a year and a half for the court to settle this - and it's still going.  Why doesn't everyone (besides the other family) see this huge injustice to her?

I was neutral at first but have read and watched this long enough to see the big picture and can't believe our court system is not resolving this before the lives of this mother and her twins are forever severed - or they are traumatized terribly. As a mom, I can't imagine not being with the kids I went through so much to have. I would feel desperate and frustrated and confused. I don't know what I would do. But I'm not sure I could sit and wait for years while my kids grew up and I was missing more and more of their lives and losing more connection with them. They are her kids. Is that not our right as a parent - to raise our kids? Maybe she was sick at the time, but that doesn't give others the right to take them away forever. Give her treatment and give her kids back. She is their mother.

Time is ultimately irrelevant in this case - you don't right a wrong by doing something else wrong - what is the point of having a justice system then?

Quote From: journeyofhope

Dear Dr. Phil,

I am writing to you, like all these other women, to tell parts of my story in the hopes of getting some real help. We have all suffered with a pain that I can only describe as heart shattering. I have had three experiences with HG, none successful. No words could possibly explain the overwhelming saddness I have felt trying to heal. There is an emptiness that will never truly heal as I accept the fact that I am terrified to ever try again.
Though I have many memories from the illness, I will tell the ones that stand out in my mind with such vividness that my heart aches now even two years after my last attempt.
I believe with everything in me that I would be dead now had I kept on trying.
The most painful memory stands out with my third attempt. I could not make it past 5 months. I lost 46 pounds. I was throwing up blood and bile at least 30 times a day, and for the last few weeks had blood not just trickling from my nose in nosebleeds, but spraying out violently as I wretched. All day and night.
At first I was suffering at home, trying several medications. None worked, not even the one I had to administer myself by needle into my leg and arm muscle. I was weak, unable to even think about eating or drinking even a sip of water, and unable to get a handle on any of it. I was on 4 medications in hospital. They managed to get my symptoms under control at about 3 months for 2 days and told me I was fine and should go home. The only reason I was fine was because I had a chemical soup being fed to me through I.V. So when they took me off everything, all at once, after only 2 days of peace... of course a few hours after being removed from medication, I was even more violently ill than when I had originally gone in to hospital. They could not get me stable again.
I would dream about swimming through a sea of orange juice when I could manage to fall asleep at all... I guess my body was so dehydrated that it started telling me I needed vitamins, liquids, nutrition.
They hooked me up so I could hear my baby's heartbeat, and it was beautiful. I felt such a saddness knowing that with the way things were going I wouldn't make it and knowing I would have to choose. I can still hear my baby's heartbeat now. I will never forget it.
One afternoon, I went to the washroom to splash some water on my face, got dizzy, sat on the toilet to stabilize myself, and woke up in the bathtub beside me. I rang the call button, and nobody came. So I pulled myself out and crawled to my bed on my hands and knees, crying and dragging the IV machine behind me, too tired to walk and no energy to stand, I sat on the floor by my bed and waited for someone to come, and cried. I called my mother and told her I knew I was dying and asked her to help me. The helplessness she must have felt.
At this point, I couldn't sleep because the motion in my mind from my dreams would send me into fits of wretching for hours.
I ended up terminating my pregnancy out of what I thought was necessity to save my own life due to lack of proper resources.  After leaving the hospital in wheelchair, I concentrated on physical recovery. It took a week and a half before I could really even swallow water, or anything else because of the pain, due to rips in my esophagus and lesions and tears in my throat lining. Even a full year later I developed problems with my gallbladder.. I've since learned is due to the illness.
The second attempt left it's own set of scars that fuels me now to do something about the injustice these sufferers were, and are still faced with. I was sent a psychiatrist while in hospital with my second attempt who would wait outside my bathroom door while I wretched to tell me I was overreacting. I was just pregnant, and that I must not want my baby. It makes me sick to think about. How could the medical profession that I came to for help kick me so hard while I was down? I even had a nurse angry with me for throwing up after she'd given me an entire dose of gravol through I.V. (Gravol made me feel even sicker... and I told them that, but surprise, they didn't believe me).
I far from received adequate care and resent being told I didnt want my children. Having a doctor pat your leg and tell you you are a wasting use of the hospitals beds as "there are a lot of other people much sicker than you dear", made me feel horribly alone. As one Emergency ward doc put it after observing me for a total of 5 minutes and taking no blood and conducting no tests.
It's taken me two years to be able to talk about it. Now I have vowed to myself that I will do whatever I have to do to spread the word and help as many women suffering with this illness as I can.
On June 24th of this year me and best friend will be walk/running from London to Toronto, Ontario, ending at Sick Kids hospital where a helpline is located for women suffering and their families. This is all to raise money and donate it to HG research. It will take 6 days, 50 kms per day, 5 kms per hour for 10 hours a day. We are calling it 'The Journey of Hope - to help pave the way for HG sufferers and their children.' We know its not as far as some others have gone for other illnesses, but it is as much as time will allow for now. I would walk around the world and back to find a cure to end this needless suffering. That will be followed by a fundraising dinner in which I am trying to gather as many guests as possible. Dr. Phil.. would you like to come? :)
I thank the HER foundation with everything in my being because after losing 3 children, it was the only place I could find that told me, without a doubt, I am not alone. There are no words that can express my gratitude. There are others. It is not in my head, and I did and do want my children, and I pray that I have even a quarter of the strength as Anne Marie and her co-founders have, so I too will be able to fight right along side them to help even just one woman.
Thank you Dr. Phil for any help you may give us. Please help separate fact from fiction with this illness once and for all... We need to be told by a medical professional that it is not just a figment of our imaginations, because the pain is so real it is absolutely unimaginable.

Quote From: suzannemarie

I totally agree that Allison will need a solid support system when the children come home to her.  I suspect it will be there, if it isn't already at this point.

 

As for treatment and recovery, HG depletion is possibly still an issue, though I doubt a serious metabolic one, so I hope the jail is offering sufficient vitamins and minerals.  It takes a while to build up again.  As you state, PPD issues also need the same sort of care and possibly medication, though not all PPD patients take medication to recover. 

 

I also wonder if her thyroid has been screened; it's VERY common to misdiagnose PPD instead of thyroid issues as they look very much a like.  Postpartum Support International, a leading education and support organization, states that about 20% of pregnant women develop PPD and a significant number of those women actually have Postpartum Thyroiditis.  The range of stats varies up to 16.9% http://www.postpartum.net/thyroid.html

 

Do you know when her trial is?  Things really should move faster than they are.

Quote From: gwarrior6

That's a good point.  She's probably not getting the nutritional reserves in prison that she needs.  She should be in treatment where they can keep her fed and hydrated.  I feel bad for her.

 

Also, I hadn't considered thyroiditis, but she might have had that and it would definietely been overlooked.  I hope she gets the medical treatment her body needs. 

 

I don't know when her trial is, but I hope she feels well enough by that time to present her case.

Quote From: betty389

When this woman decided at age 47 to become a mother, she did not consider the results.  She had no husband, She was too old to be having her first child.  She apparently did not think about what problems could occur  She was artifically conceived, and when she got sick there was no husband to help her thru this.  God created two parents for each child as a back up system.  Now that the twins are almost two years old and the hardest part of raising them is over,  She wants them back.  Claiming she was sick.  Well she had a good job and education.  If she needed help with the twins when she gave birth she could have hired a nanny,  or gotten her family to help out.  Instead she realized how difficult becoming a mother could be and she signed them away.  Claiming she was forced by some boyfriend who seems to have had nothing to do with the childrens birth.  There is no way she should get them back or even have visitation rights.  These children need two parents who will live long enough to raise them.  If you think i am wrong,  you need to know I have two adopted children and two natural children.  My last child was born at age 40.  However, i knew what i was getting in to,  I had a husband and excellent family support.    Not once in her interview from the prison did she say she cared what was best for the children.  She was only saying i am the mother so i deserve them.  Wrong. being a mother means doing what is best for the children.  She puts her self first.  It also seems she is not emotionally stable enough to raise the children.    to take them from the family who adopted them,  stayed up all night to care for them ,  paid all their bills, and loved them would be the biggest crime on the children now.    In addition Dr. Phil i think you should stay out of this matter and leave it to the legal system.  This mother would steal the children again if she was let out of prison for even one day. 

Quote From: betty389

When this woman decided at age 47 to become a mother, she did not consider the results.  She had no husband, She was too old to be having her first child.  She apparently did not think about what problems could occur  She was artifically conceived, and when she got sick there was no husband to help her thru this.  God created two parents for each child as a back up system.  Now that the twins are almost two years old and the hardest part of raising them is over,  She wants them back.  Claiming she was sick.  Well she had a good job and education.  If she needed help with the twins when she gave birth she could have hired a nanny,  or gotten her family to help out.  Instead she realized how difficult becoming a mother could be and she signed them away.  Claiming she was forced by some boyfriend who seems to have had nothing to do with the childrens birth.  There is no way she should get them back or even have visitation rights.  These children need two parents who will live long enough to raise them.  If you think i am wrong,  you need to know I have two adopted children and two natural children.  My last child was born at age 40.  However, i knew what i was getting in to,  I had a husband and excellent family support.    Not once in her interview from the prison did she say she cared what was best for the children.  She was only saying i am the mother so i deserve them.  Wrong. being a mother means doing what is best for the children.  She puts her self first.  It also seems she is not emotionally stable enough to raise the children.    to take them from the family who adopted them,  stayed up all night to care for them ,  paid all their bills, and loved them would be the biggest crime on the children now.    In addition Dr. Phil i think you should stay out of this matter and leave it to the legal system.  This mother would steal the children again if she was let out of prison for even one day. 

Quote From: my3boys01

Astrid,

From my previous posts you would gather that I have my own firm opinions.  However, you bring up good, honest questions.  I truly appreciate how you posed them in a non-offensive way.  That always opens the board for constructive debate.  I'd like to debate with you in a friendly way.  I'll copy your questions and follow with my replies.

 

What I do not understand though - did she make the choice to give up the babies while pregnant or afterwards?  Allison stated that she first considered adoption when she was 7 months pregnant.  That would be at a time of serious devastation physically. 

 

How long after you give birth does this disease make you unable to make coherent choices (how long for a return to health)?  Post-partum recovery for an HG sufferer can take 6 mo. to 2 yrs.  However, there are many cases of secondary health issues that are either chronic or take much longer to "cure."  PPD and PTSD are also common and can be severe in post-partum HG patients.

 

If someone is deemed legally unable to make rational choices for themselves because of this illness (that is what is being suggested, in order to make these legal documents she signed invalid), should that person be left making choices for their babies on a daily basis, without some kind of aid or medication? This would concern me. I totally agree with your here, well stated.  I believe Allison needed physical support in caring for these twins while her body recovered, as well as, emotional support in dealing with PPD and/or PTSD.  Many women receive that type of help while caring for their new babies.  Sadly, others do not.  Admittedly, I would like to see Allison be reunited with her children but with aid in dealing with emotional trauma,  Even if there was none before, there most certainly is now after her stay in jail while separated from her children. 

 

How was she coerced into giving up her babies? It does not seem like there was anyone forcing her. Were they harassing her, or showing up at her home? What is this ex boyfriend like? I don't understand the coercion part.   Allison's claim, and hospital documentation should support this, is that she was in a weakened state after her children's births.  She was allegedly driven to the attorney's office and kept there (she was driven) for 5 hours before signing and withdrawing the papers.  Five hours is a pretty long time for anyone, let alone a physically weak person.  If she was there for a total of 11 hours, which is what is claimed, that's 6 more hours.  She stated that she was physically too weak to carry both babies and infant carriers out of the office.  Three days later, she signed again only to attempt to withdraw the papers 8 hours later through a different attorney.  She was probably in the same physical condition at that time. The coercion that many feel took place has to do with her weakened state and obvious indecision.  She stated that she wanted the best for her babies and was not sure if she was physically capable of caring for them.  I do not know what the boyfriend was like.  She did not speak ill of him.  However, I believe he was the one who drove her to the attorney's office and did not immediately offer to take her home when she was unsure of her decision.

 

While there may not be a cooling off period for adoption (for babies under 6 months), she came back three days later (the same amount of time given as a cooling off period for babies over 6 months) and signed the papers again. Is the problem that three days is not enough of a cooling off period?  Wow, that's a really great question!  In my mind, I can't see that 3 days is enough.  And, I say that as someone who has been looking into adoption myself.  I'd love to see strong evaluations and support given to people considering placing children for adoption before it ever gets to the point of signing papers.

 

I guess I feel bad for the adoptive parents, I cannot imagine investing the sort of love it takes to raise a child only to have that child taken away.  You do sound like a compassionate person.  I feel for them also but question how much they knew of Allison's indecision.  If there was any knowledge, and maybe we (the general public) will never know, then my compassion for them goes right out the window.  I'm a strong advocate of parental rights for adoptive parents and birth parents.  It's such a sad situation all around.