Topic : 04/12 Twin Tug of War

My definition of Hyperemesis is slowly & painfully starving to death for the mother & unborn, innocent baby.  It hits you full force & while you are just trying to stay alive (literally), everyone around you is telling you to be tough...  it's just morning sickness.  You can't eat, sleep, talk, walk, watch t.v., shower, or be around anything that might have a scent or move....  You need 24/7 care & rely on a mid-line only for any liquids.  The sight, thought or smell of food sends you straight into vomiting.  Being able to brush your teeth once a week is celebrated as one of the greatest victories. Not to mention if you actually urinate more than once a day...  The pressure & demands on your family & friends is extremely tough but of course you would trade places with them in a second.  I am 5'8" & weighed under 100 pounds... pregnant!  Please, Dr. Phil!  Please give us an entire show for Hyperemesis!  We DO NOT have eating disorders!  I know that you can make a difference with this horrible, horrible disease.    

I agree with everything you said. I have 2 boys, one 3 years old & one 7 months old. I decided to get pregnant a second time because of all the people who told me "the second pregnancy could be fine". Well, they were ALL WRONG. I was worse. Even though the outcome is wonderful, I just can't risk it again. I too want a girl so bad. Since I was a little girl I dreamed of the day I could have a daughter, and I always thought I would. It doesn't look like that will ever happen for me. My husband had a vasectomy just to be sure we wouldn't have any accidents. I guess I will just have that feeling inside for the rest of my life. Good luck.

Hello.  I have had hyperemesis four times.  The first time I ended up terminating the pregnancy because it was so terrible I was close to dying.  My family watched me as I withered away into nothing and barely stayed awake long enough to carry a 20 minute conversation.  The only "food" I had was IV nutrition for more than three months.  Back then I had never ever heard of Hyperemesis and what was worse is none of my dr's knew how to treat it.  It was horrible.  They just kept giving me IV fluids and sending me home and two days later, back in I went again.  It was a relentless cycle.  I even had my own dr. tell my parents that I was causing this disease by my own fear of the pregnancy.  As if!  Why would I intentionally make myself that sick? 

My eldest daughter's pregnancy started off violently ill but my new dr. actually wanted to help me.  I'll never forget the day he walked into my hospital room and offered me what he called the "wonder drug" known as Zofran.  Luckily my insurance covered this highly expensive medication.  I went though her pregnancy feeling sick every day, but well enough to function somewhat normally.

My son's pregnancy was really bad to start with.  I ended up in the hospital for 10 days straight because I had refused to stay when I really needed to because I was so scared about what was going to happen to my daughter.  I couldn't keep anything and I mean anything down.  It wasn't until I was about 7 months along that I felt somewhat decent.  Worse of it is my fiance left me claiming that I was horrible to live with and actually remained gone even seeing how bad off I was.  I ended up losing my job and my home and having to live with my friend and her father until I could get well enough to even go back to working.  I also ended up having my son four weeks early.

My most recent pregnancy (Born 12/2) and last because of the hyperemesis seemed as thought it was going pretty well at first.  It ended up being my most difficult.  Once again my fiance left me but this time with a toddler to take care of while feeling this horrible.  If it wasn't for the wonderful women on the Hyperemsis.org message boards I would have never made it through those rough 9 months.  I almost lost my job because of all my absences and actually only recently just got taken off the probabation I was placed on once I returned back from maternity leave.  Just feeding my son then 1 killed me inside and I begged everyday for anyone, just anyone to come help me.  I felt like the world's worst mother because my son spent so much time in his play yard because I was physically unable to even care for him.  It was horrible going through that and doing it alone.  I look back and I can't imagine a man that would use this disease against you instead of think you were the world's greatest woman for enduring such a horrible thing just to give your children life. 

We practically kill ourselves from starvation alone just to have these children.  What we need is a better understanding on why this happens.   A better understanding on how to treat it and offer these treatments at prices all can afford.  And the world needs to know that this exists so that it is as commonly known about as gestational diabetes so that when women do experience it they receive the respect and understanding they deserve.  Not just from their families and friends, but from professionals too. 

We need to make this country aware of this disease and Dr. Phil, I know you will help to do just that!

Mary

First thing - I find it distressing to think that so many women are not getting the help and hopefully, the rest of this case aside, the show created some awareness for what this illness is. I know that it has for me.

Second - I thought that her case was that the illness made her emotionally incompetent to make legal decisions, but you are saying that that is unjustified. Alright, sorry, I thought that was what was meant. But what you are saying is that it made her weak, then strong coercion was used - does anyone know what the coercion was? I have read that she heard that the adoptive parents were excited about the babies - which seems to me to be positive, I would not want parents willing to adopt my children to be blasé about it. But maybe there was something else? Being at the lawyers office for a long time does not alone suggest coercion... taxis, family, friends, anyone could be called to leave if she wanted to leave... unless she was being forced to stay? Not being able to carry out the children herself makes sense, but it does not strand you necessarily. After a caesarean you cannot lift a baby and a car seat together but many women find a way to get around. Taxi drivers will often help out. Does she have any other family or friends beyond this boyfriend (who does not seem like a great friend or decent person to have in a time of need, to be fair to her)?

Also, why did she not consider paying for help, nanny's are available to help new mothers... apperently she had quite a bit of spare money. it just seems like adoption is really serious, and going back on an adoption is really serious. And leaving the country with the children was really serious.

Like I said before, I am developing sympathy for Allison.

I feel your pain.  I had HG while pregnant with our son.  He is now 15 months old and we are both happy and healthy.  Zofran did not cut it for me as a drug.  My OB suffered with HG herself, and she perscribed Kytril for me.  It is the only thing that worked, and helped me get out of bed and back up and around.  It also got rid of the nausea for me.  With Zofran I was still nauseous and still vomited.  Have you talked to your doctor about Kytril?  I truly think it is the only thing that helped me survive the pregnancy.   My husband and I will try for another child, but only with knowing that the Kytril got me through.   Just thought this might help.  I am a teacher as well, and I just couldn't go back to work during the pregnancy.  Please know I am praying for you and all those others who are suffering out there.

Thank you Dr. Phil for doing this show.  It just made me cry to see that this disease was finally getting some attention.

I was able to attended the taping of this show (as some of the other posters have). There was stuff that we saw, issues that came up (and some stuff I read on other news reports) that didn't make the final edit of the show that you saw.

Firstly- yes, so many, many moms have gotten A) no help B) too little help C) no diagnosis. It's heartbreaking... I've read way too many stories from moms who terminated, who were told to terminated and didn't even know they had a disease or what the name of it was. Better care is so critical- mostly for moms but babies too!

I would not say that the HG illness itself would make someone incapacitated to make a decision to adopt or not. What WAS edited out of the show was that Dr Phil pointed out Allison because of her HG experience and complications (life threatening ones, where she was terrified she and her babies would die) left her with both Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Post Partum Depression.

 I would make my best estimate and say either one or BOTH (esp. the PTSD) should automatically put such an important decision as adoption under immediate suspicion. Not ALL or even most women who have HG will end up with PTSD as a result, but a small percentage will (esp those like Allison with life threatening complications). When in the accute phase, which can last weeks, months, even years- people can be very very impaired with their mental health to where basic functioning is challenging. PPD, PTSD, sleep deprivation, physical exhuastion, and extreme weakness- does that begin to pain the picture of how ANY decision made during that time of such a huge decision  (add in that Allison herself said she really thought she was maybe going to die, even post partum) would totally impair someone to make a LONG term decision? Allison was acting in the now- unable really to see even to the end of the day- let alone the future beyond.

Just to add a little more about PTSD- it's usually not clinically diagnosed until the symptoms have lasted longer than 30 days. Remember, the adoption happened when the babies were 6 weeks old (and remember too Allison had only been home from the hospital about a month). It really isn't feasible to say well she should have gotten help. At that point, the mental fallout would very conceivably been hitting a low point (esp. add in the month home of caring for newborn babies).

Step into Allison's mind frame and you can see where coercion comes in. FOr months on end, depressing, suffering, and isolating months on end- you begin to fear you won't even make it. Then, at birth, you nearly die. You go home, thinking things will be ok (or maybe in shock still). Then you're so weak, so tired. She may have felt like a failure. Undoubtedly at some point in time she thought to herself "I made a mistake doing this". Who wouldn't? We women don't get pregnant (especially the first time) ever DREAMING this illness exists- or that we will be as sick as we get. The "boyfriend" is telling her to adopt- telling her Allison- what if you die? What will happen to the babies? Then she almost does die at their birth. Then she's home and mentally is disabled- her thinking completely affected and distorted- depressed, scared, hopeless, overwhelmed, questioning herself. Physically- exhuasted, weak, she's lost all "excess" fat, and she's lost alot of muscle as well (the body burns it up to sustain itself while in starvation mode) and she's probably in pain (common in an HG recovery). Some moms aren't even able to eat properly still post partum or maybe have very little appetite. The boyfriend contacts several lawyers. They bring her in. Another thing that was edited was that Allsion did NOT think this was a permanent placement. She NEVER did think she would never have her kids again.

After the 911 call, she's taken alone back to her home with the babies and no help. She's so weak she can't even get two babies and two car seats into a car. I know this experience personally. There were times I did actually feel VERY stranded. Like Allison I suffered HG til the end of my twin pregnancy and like her I had life threatening complications and was very very ill. I too had an emergency c/s to protect MY health. I went home, still unable to eat, underweight, anemic and in pain. I, however was married and 20 years younger than Allison. My c/s was a traumtically painful experience and as a result of that and the HG I too was left with PPD and PTSD. I suffered anxiety for the first time in my life. At teh worst, I didn't even care what happened to me- I had suicidal ideation at times. Mostly I was gripped with anxiety. I was most literally unable to take my two 5 lb babies in their car seats to the car. I was post C/S and could barely walk. Getting my babies to the hospital for a Dr appointment involved 5 trips to the car. One trip per  8 lb car seat, one trip per baby, one trip for me and the baby bag. I couldn't pack in the double stroller in the car. It weighed over 35 lbs.

Having done the twin thing too, there were times I had to make the logistical decisions about WHO stays a few feet behind while I physically get the other baby to a car. Many times I would have to ask my older son (was who 5 at the time) to stay behind and watch his sister. (We don't have a usuable garage, so just getting babies in the house meant leaving one behind out in front of the hosue for a brief moment). Being in that physical and mental state- being told "you've made a mistake" over and over, yeah... that's coercion. That's exploitation.

Allsion did in fact hire help, I don't know all the details but I know she hired a part time nanny. Remember she was 47- her parents did not live close by, neither did her sister (out of state) and her parents are elderly with their own medical problems. I don't know where any other family was, or where her friends were- obviously they weren't there ENOUGH for her. But I can't fault HER for not advocating enough for herself. In that mental state (esp right at 6 weeks when PPD and PTSD would likely fully manefesting) she couldn't even probably MAKE those rational decisions to GET the help she did need.

They have one major reason going for them:  Florida Adoptions are closed to the public.  That's the law and the Needham's and their attorneys have used it since the very second Allison signed the adoption papers.  Florida law is that a child given up for adoption under six months old, it takes place immediately.  Then they use this Adoptions closed to the public as their defense not to go public. 

It's not a very good defense considering the names of the children, all the adults, the attorneys, and the judge has already been put out to the public but it works because, again, it's the law.

But, IMHO, they would not have good answers for the questions that would be asked.  I'm not talking about  "the law" questions because they did operate within the law, but the moral questions that would be asked of them. 

Here are some questions that would be asked:  Why didn't you give the kids back when she requested them?  Couldn't you find other kids to adopt?  Why "these kids"?

Basically, they would be put on "The Morality Trial" vice the "The Legal Trial".  I like to make a point about the difference:

Morality dictates how the laws are made, not the other way around.  Most of us know that murder and stealing are wrong not because the law says it is but because our morals made those things wrong so we made a law against it.

Here examples of morality changing laws that were made.  Women right to vote and Abolishing Slavery.

Heck, our country was founded on morality!!  The people of the colonies saw it as immoral the way England treated them, so they made a constitution to change the laws.  They believed in it so much that they gave their lives for it.

That is what so hard about this case.  Even though you are operating within the law, does it make it right?

If I was the Needhams, would I go public and be submitted to these questions?  No Way!!!!!!

I think there is a lot of information in this post that was missing for me - thank you for the clarification on some of these points! I have to say - this topic deserved more than the time it received on the show.

Thanks!