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Topic : 08/20 The Dr. Phil House: Saving Grace, Part 2

Number of Replies: 723
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Created on : Friday, April 13, 2007, 03:09:57 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/16/07) Dr. Phil continues his work with a family torn apart by a 6-year-old girl’s secret: she was molested by her grandfather, and her grandmother failed to report it. Cat and Todd have cut off all contact with Todd’s parents, Steve and Anne, and haven’t seen them since they learned the horrifying truth from their daughter, Grace, over two years ago. Steve has served time for the assault and is now a registered sex offender with a protective order keeping him away from Grace until she’s 18. After secretly watching Dr. Phil’s interview with Steve and Anne, and learning the details of what really took place, will Todd and Cat ever feel comfortable with letting Grace’s grandmother back in her life? Dr. Phil sits down with both couples as they confront each other for the first time face to face. Then, Dr. Phil addresses Cat and Todd’s marriage, which has started to crumble under the stress. How can they get back on track for the sake of their daughter? Next, Grace wants to ask Dr. Phil some questions. See what this brave little girl wants other kids to know. Plus, Dr. Phil has an update on this family one month later. How are they now? Talk about the show here.

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August 22, 2007, 7:57 pm CDT

Therapy

Quote From: kathleen27

Please get yourself some therapy, because you are dealing with too much pain, in too many areas...you cannot do this alone!  You will begin to feel more empowered when a professional "has your back" so to speak.  Your mother-in-law had sex with her own son, please do not trust her with yours.  A therapist will help you to decide how you will handle it, but there is really to much to be lost if this woman goes after your son.

Dreams are funny...so many emotions come out in the wash...a therapist may be helpful in dream interpretation, but remember, these are dreams...you have way to much reality to put to bed...the dreams can be re-visited a a later time.

I hope your mother will accept some help, maybe you can do this together, and sort of support each other.  Remember, you are aso grieving the death of your husband.  You cannot take it all at once.

Please, get some help in keeping your son away from that woman...at least keep him from EVER being left alone with her...that way, it saves you the burden of explaining..and it may save another victim.  I hope that you and your mother can become stronger, advocates for one another...and for your son.  Your need may be the motive for her to seek help...let her know that you need each other...and good luck to your family.  You have had a really rough ride!

You're the second person to remind me within the last 2 months to get a therapist.  I will do it.  I have been referred to a personality disorders group, a self referral group - dealing with powerful emotions - and I think I may give it a try.  But the most important help I think right now is to get help doing practical things.  I am in the middle of doing my taxes and I am making progress - but there are so many other things I need to do - I need new passports and health cards.  I think that I can do it if I do things one step at a time but boy I could use some help.  Also I have been looking into getting orphan benefit for my son.  I found out that I don't qualify in Canada so I am trying the UK (where my son's father is from, and my son was born) but so far I have gleaned that I'm not entitled to it there either because we weren't married.

 

I have told my mother that I need her and that I want her to be well, but she still refuses to get help.  I don't see how I can convince her.  I have considered writing to the Dr. Phil show.  But the first step they advise you to do is to contact your local mental health services.  Well I guess I can't do that on her behalf so perhaps I will try to get her some help through the show.  She watches and I think she would listen to Phil.  Just an idea.

 

I will consider what to do about Grandma (the other one, the abuser).  I'm going to start to talk to my friends about it.  Open it up.  Get some feedback.

 

And thank you so much for yours.  I appreciate you.

 
August 22, 2007, 11:34 pm CDT

I hope this helps Todd

There has been a lot of criticism of Todd, understandably so.  But I think that it is completely normal to greive the loss of what you thought you had as parents, and to hold out hope that this is all going to be fixed and you will get your real parents back.  The problem is that your parents are not who you thought they were, and no matter what they do in the future, that won't change.  I wonder if you realize, Todd, that were you a female, he would have done this to you as a child, and your mother would have covered it up.

 

It is not surprising that the child of people who hide things they don't want to face would act like Todd, still hoping that he can work things out with his parents.  Please don't teach your daughter that denial is the way to handle difficult problems.  You must realize who your parents are:  virtual strangers who would have tramatized your daughter in the worst way over and over again had she not spoken up.

 

I know she wants to see them, but think she will appreciate your refusal as an adult.  If you did let them back into her life, either of them, an adult Grace would not understand why you sent her back into the den with the wolves.

 
August 23, 2007, 7:54 am CDT

saving grace

i miss the first part to saving grace, but when i saw the second part it made me sick to my stomach. like another guest said the grandparents rights should be revoked. i do not understand why the grandmother would not tell the parents. something is also wrong with the grandmother. im not saying do not stand by your husband, but right is right. i would have left him. there is no doubt. like all perverts they make excuses. makes you wonder was this really his first time. no i do not think so. i did not understand the father todd. where was the emotions. did todd get molested as a child. me as a parent of three girls. i could never forgive my father mother if they let that happen to mind. and for grace who loves the grandparents. i must say that she is a brave soul. and alot of children she watch this show. so that they will no to tell if anything like this happen. if i was cat and todd i would put a restraining order on the grandmother. because she fell to protect her. and to ask if she could come over again. once again makes you wonder about her. what kind of secret is she hiding. to engage in such behavior. and for the grandfather such a sick person. my prayers are with gracie and her family.
 
August 23, 2007, 10:00 am CDT

how could a grand parent do this???

How could a grandparent do this to their own blood! What really made me mad was that he said he thought she liked  it like a kid likes candy. What the heck!! That is crazy. She is a little girl yea she knows candy but not anything sexual at that time. He also blammed it that it was the devils fault. If I was that mom in that same room with him and heard that come out of his mouth I would get up and hit him in the face right there. How dare he blame this on tsomething else than himself. Oh and now he is ok because he found god. God does wonders for many things but just because he has god doesn't mean that girl is going to get her inocence back. I was totaly disgusted when i saw this show i was actually mad and ticked off when i wa watching it. The garnd parents should lose all rights to see the girl and at 18 if the girl wants it is her decision to see them but right now they should be banned!!
 
August 23, 2007, 11:45 am CDT

Re. the recovering alcoholic...

Quote From: imamosaic

The things I have learned from reading this board.

 

1. Being quiet about being molested delays healing drastically

 

2. If you do get the guts to tell someone and you are not believed it delays healing drastically

 

3. An imperfect apology (even the one Steve gave-PU) is better than total denial by the offender

 

4. Therapy helps but is not the cure

 

Over and over I can see how important the Mom's role is for the child.  We as Mom's have a very important job that can't be minimized or underestimated here.  It appears if the Mothers of the world rise up and stand up supporting their children a huge difference could be made in at least the scars this crime leaves.  Kids don't have to be left with the disfiguring scars they have been left with if they are empowered and supported. 

 

That doesn't cure a single case, it just allows the person to heal.

 

The other thing is Steve.  My God, he came on national TV!  That's HUGE!  I for one hated that pitiful apology but it is more than I ever heard before!   I too wanted him to take full responsibility for what he did and acknowledge the extent of harm he caused Grace.  (The devil got hold of him?  Come on man, step up here!!!!!!!)  He didn't. He was a long way from that.  But he was up there, and he was talking about it.  Maybe he will encourage more pedophiles to step up and admit to what they are doing!  And at first maybe they will sound pitiful but -what if- this was just the beginning and they got better at taking responsibility and they evolved at that by encouraging each other toward a healthier life?  What if there were some positive role models of what a person can do IF they commit such an act and have remorse?  Right now we write them all off- no recovery possible-the end.  What if that isn't so?  I agree, there just has to be a better way than this.  I think we are still in the dark ages here and haven't evolved in this area yet.

 

So much good can come from this show.  There are things we all can do.  And I say that because the chances this will never in your life time in anyway affect you is like saying you'll never meet an alcoholic.  Maybe you won't know someone or maybe you won't know that you do know them.  These are the beginnings of charting the paths as to what to do if someone does tell you that they are/or have been victimized.  Or if you have done something to some one and have regrets (and I do believe SOME get to that point) because we hear of some here on this board that made feeble attempts on that pathless road.   What is the path that they take to making it better?  It appears that those that have admitted their guilt and take responsibility for this being all their fault Can make a difference in their victims healing.  It will never make it okay- or right- but it goes a long ways in healing what the victim feels.  I have so much admiration for the AA program.  I like the post from the guy from AA who goes to the drunk in with the pedophiles and tells the guy to step-up and take responsibility for what he has done and gets kicked out for doing that.  I'm telling you we are in the dark ages and the dawn is coming and in so many ways it was those drunks that are leading the way.  I think Bill W was on to something there. smile

 

Thanks so much for discussing this here.  Good topic Dr Phil and all who have shared their stories with us!

 

Smile,

Sue

So much, as Sue has posted, can be learned from this show.  What I have learned is that once this urge becomes an action, there is a victim.  Look at the upraoar in Grace's family...forgetting for a moment, the grandparents.  There has been a child, who in one night, was dealt a card from the bottom of the dirtiest deck.  The only "positive" if you can use that word here, is that she told right away, and her parents believed her.  To have carried that secret for years could have done so much additional damage.  But, now you have Kat, Todd and the other child, who were the secondary victims of this disaster.  The marriage is falling apart, there is that other child who has to be affected...and what do you tell that one as to why grandma and grandpa are out of the picture?  This family is in an uproar, and would be as such if the grandparents were to drop dead tomorrow.  Dr. Phil gave good advice concerning the option of divorce, now is not the time.  So now, you have two parents, but still people, caged in a marriage that's going to hell.  Unless their therapy is successful, down the road, I can foresee a separation.  During this period, there will be such underlying tension...the kids will feel it.  What a mess!

Now there comes to this forum, Mark, a recovering alcoholic, who had made some progress with his use of the steps in A.A., in getting some pedophiles to accept responsibility.  O.K.  there was an uproar, yet in any intense therapy, in any setting, progress often comes in violent waves of heated emotion.  Yet, Mark gets kicked out for causing an uproar!  Too bad...is it all right that Grace, her family...all victims who have posted ...have been, or still are in an uproar?  What if this man was on to something?  What if he had a piece of  a long term solution?  Before anything could be discovered, he was asked to leave the facility.  I have learned that too many people are so much more comfortable cursing the darkness, that they will not even attempt to find a light.  Valor does not come with surrender. To do so in the arena of pedophilia ,  is an insurance policy which guarentees more victims.  Once it happens, it's a uproar to the innocent.  In my opinion, forcing Mark to hault his work, for such a flimsy excuse, is nothing more than another crime.  Refusing to launch an agressive program of research as to the cause of this abominable urge is yet another crime against furure victims.  There is abuse, then neglect.  The pedophiles abuse children, then society neglects to delve deeply into unexplored waters, surrendering to the mantra..."there is no cure".  At one time, no mental illness had a cure.  Now, there are drugs to regulate the brain chemistry, enabling many bi-polar and schizophenic patients to function.  In the dark ages, this was not the case.

Do not confuse the word illness to mean only physical...there are multiple mental and emotional illnesses that are being helped today as a result of extensive medical and scientific research.  To give up on the hope of there one day being a cure, is to give up on the children who have not been victimized, YET!

 
August 24, 2007, 12:44 am CDT

08/20 The Dr. Phil House: Saving Grace, Part 2

Quote From: philfan004

Dear Frenchie,

 

     Let me say first of all, I am very sorry that you also had to be a victim of such a violent act.

 

     You asked if I was on Grandpa's side or Gracie's side. And my answer is "Yes."

 

     I too was molested by my grandfather at age 10 and then again at age 11. I did get a round-about apology from him via my grandmother. And, while I was never close to him before nor after, I do envy the opportunity Gracie has before her to reconcile to a man who is man enough to own his shame and face her and dirty-dog apologize. I wish that I had similar memories of my grandfather. I'm not bitter at him . . . but I'd be that much prouder of him if he'd "bit the nail" and owned up to me his disgrace and showed me that he valued me enough to want to "start all over again."

 

     In all fairness to Gracie, her decision to accept or reject his overtures now are a bit more emotionally packed than my experience. She was younger, she was the opposite sex, and her grandpa was able to do more with her than I permitted mine to do.

 

     But I do say that, if my judgment is correct and Grandpa is sincere, she stands to gain much more than she'll lose in the years ahead if they reconcile. (Don't misunderstand: I'm not saying she didn't lose worlds of innocence when she was violated. But she only stands to continue to lose, I fear, if healing doesn't begin.)

 

     You mentioned my wife: I never knew my father-in-law, but I've thought how much I wish I could  privately confront him about the lingering effects of the pain he gave his daughter and encourage and support him if he would be man enough to face her and say the things that I believe were in his heart before he died: i.e., "I'm unspeakably sorry, Daughter!"

 

     I'll never have that opportunity--and my wife's healing will have to come by a different route. But Gracie has heard words of remorse from a man who has, while living, said those very words, or at least similar words. I hope she'll grab hold of the rope thrown to her and not have to carry such deep scars so long like my wife has and apparently scars that still sting so many who have posted on this board.

 

     Allow me to share the verse of scripture that finally set me free from some of the pain (this pain and others) from my earlier years: "Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows" (Isaiah 53). As a Christian I'd been taught to identify the "he" as being Jesus. Further in that passage it says that "he was wounded for our transgressions." My reasoning then became thus: If I can trust him that he bore my sins on the cross that I might be free, then the Bible invites me to recognize as well that Jesus, in some cosmic sense, suffered also the pain of the whole world too.

     Think of it, if indeed my pain was indeed felt and endured by the Son of God 2000 years ago, WHY  ON  EARTH  DO  I   WANT  TO  HANG  ON  TO  IT  ANY   LONGER? If God's answer for the world is not: You better get your act together, but rather: I'll come, I'll take responsibility for the mess that you've made or that others have foisted on you , then that indeed is good news. And not only willing to endure our pain, but also to die for our sins. So that now I don't have to worry about so-and-so and making sure that they pay for their crimes against me. I now realize that God says, "Blame Me, I take responsibility for what they did. After all, it was My idea to create man to start with. Go ahead, blame Me and I'll die the death they deserve and suffer the agony that they foisted on you. As a matter of fact, I already have. I already bore your pain; and furthermore, I never let him get away with anything. Only it was I who paid the ugly price. Now you go ahead and get on with your life and enjoy life--nothing he/she/whoever did to you ever went unnoticed from My scrutiny. And every pang you felt pierced My heart first."

 

     God bless you, Frenchie. May God speed the healing in all of our lives!

     PhilFan

My apologies for taking so long to reply.  I had to take a step back from this, my temper was starting to flare,  I have a rule I live by.. never fight when angry and I was angry enough to fight.  I needed to get a rational perspective on this for myself before replying.

 

I still do not understand who's side you were on .. Gracies OR Grandpa's.

 

I hear that you wished you had that chance to have had your molester face you and apologize to you.  That is your experience, not Gracies and not your wifes experience.  One must be careful not to *push* or try to convince someone else walking teh same type of journey to do as you do or say.  It may not be right for them.  One thing I have learned having worked at a women's shelter for 5 years is that no matter what I think or feel a person should or shouldn't do it makes no difference.  Where they are in that given moment in time is where they need to be in their journey.  They alone direct and steer through their paths in the waythey choose.  I don't have to like it but I do have to respect their own decisions.  Now that's not to say I didn't plant a seed of a direction for someone especially when kids are involved.  At the end of the day, it's up to that person to make their choices.  That is between them and who they perceive God to be.  One of the hardest lessons I have ever had to learn and do struggle with at times but power is not mind to direct onto another person.   So in this case I agree to disagree with you on this.

 

As far as God is concerned.  He may have felt our suffering and he may take sins away but HE also requires a certain level of repsonsiblity from us all.  He gave us the freedom of choice, and he gave us guides on how to make good choices, and He does not interfer with the choices we make, not even the angels can interfer or try to steer us in any direction.  Brush up on your Beattitudes, Parables and re-visit Job's story.  Pay close attention to the what WE NEED to do.  Not just what Christ has come to do for us. 

 

For a lot of survivors, God not being there for them is extremely hard for them to realize or to see past and understandably so because of all the teachings.  God has been made out to be this gentle spirit and savior and thus expectations of him have gone a little to one side.  Christ has a temper too and he proved it in His Father's house when folks were abusing the purpose of His Fathers house.  God himself has angry moments and expresses His displeasure and brought down His hand.  Because of promises He has made to us all He does not intervene.  In my case I never expected God to be there or to save me.  I already knew he was there at age 9, instinctively.  He was not the one who threatened me, or raped me or tricked me.  That was not HIS hand.  That hand belonged to my rapist. and it was up to my rapist to take that responsibility for his really really bad choice.  God does things in a very subtle way 90% of the time.  Everyone finds Him in thier own way and their own time.  I am not going to argue the points about HIm because there is no way we will ever know who's right until we actually are face to face with HIm and he can tell us ourslves.  The Bible can be interpreted in so so many different ways.  Only He can tell us exactly what he meant.  Think I"ll wait to hear His responses when I get my chance to ask Him.

 

frenchie

 
August 28, 2007, 9:59 pm CDT

Here Are Some FACTS...what next?

Pedophilia has been defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a MENTAL DISORDER, not a choice.  Research on the disorder is fragmented due to a lack of funding.  Why is this so?  Research scientists who do work in the field, are viewed as supporters of the pedophile, even though they seek to find a common link, a control, and finally a cure.  There have been genetic, heredity, and brain chemical findings, leading to a belief that pedophilia has many muliple components...but then the funds dry up.

As a parent, this enrages me.  As a member of society, it embarasses me.  Do we now say that all scientists doing cancer research are in support of cancer, and cut the funding, also?  Same with HIV, full blown AIDS, do those doing research to cure it actually support it...maybe....maybe it is all a big plot to kill us all, and we need to go back to the dark ages of medicine, so that these disease friendly researchers can't get us.  Maybe we'd be better off having left depression, OCD. ADD,schizophenia, bi-polar disorder....any other mental disorder...alone.  It really wasn't that bad, was it?

There are no IFS here, pedophilia has been defined by the professionals as a mental disorder.  It disgusts us...too damn bad...it is a prejudice of one genre of mental illness.  To deny the adequate reaearch to better understand it, is to be as slavery was to Blacks, as Hitler was to Jews.  I have been doing extensive research on my own, into scientific findings about pedophilia.  It is out there, and there are FACTS not to be disputed, and theories that have come to be from certain commonalities, yet from different research centers...quite respectable and well known facilities.  Then, the funds dry up.  SSRI drugs were showing to produce positive results.  Differences in the behaviors of the disorder were dispelling beliefs held in the era of ignorance.  Then the funds dry up.

IF, the operative word, we as a people, really care about the effects of this behavior, why do we let the funds dry up?  Pedophile supporters my backside!  If you are breaking your neck to find a path to an end, you are the greatest advocate for children...one to be commended, not silenced.  So, maybe we really don't care all that much...it's so much better to want them in jail...even when logic sreams that must be at the expense of a victim.  Do we care about the CHILDREN, or is it our own disgust, repulsion and thirst for blood, that supercedes the innocent being victimized to satisfy our personal feelings?  To convict, there must be a crime.  Every crime must have a victim.  I have personally seen too much published, seen so many similarities to these findings that paralell my childrens' offender, I can't look away...I want them to go on, as I feel they are on to something.  I'm sick of reading that the funds dried up, as my children were the victims of an under-researched mental illness, and did not have to be.  For those who suffered in the dark ages, in the era of "sweeping this under the rug", the era of negative absolutes and sterotyping...my God, I am sorry.  But it is not a tribute to them to remain in prejudice, stagnation and a lack of hope...because the funds keep drying up on "pedophile supporters"...who seek a way to stop it.

The true pedophile supporters are those who are in support of the status quo of yesteryear remaining as it was, not what it could be.

Look at your new born baby....would YOU, as a parent, accept a stigma, resulting in lack of medical research if your child had the misfortune to be born with a mental defect he/she did not ask for, nor did you?  Would you want not one stone to be left unturned to help YOUR child?  Would you accept the funds dried up as an answer, as you watch the progress of other mental disorders...just not for your child?  It infuriates me ,and I have to thank the show for causing me to go deeper, look further, put my own pain on hold, while I learned what should be today, common knowledge.  Thank you, to the silent ones, to the grants withheld, thank you all on behalf of the victims on this forum, on behalf of my children.  Your silence may have enabled some of us to suffer unnecessarily.  The information with held may have been the clue to prevention, so again, thank you all for your silence.  I'm pleased that I found as much as I did, and hope it can be taken further.  I know this is not as important for media attention,as lets say, Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, or Tom Cruise.  Our values are as sick as the mind of a pedophile...perhaps more so, as we allegedly, are not suffering from a mental disorder...just a serious moral decline when with holding pertinent findings, and dried up funds have become O.K..  What the hell, they're just kids, and we, as laymen know it all about pedophiles. so why listen to experts in the field.  We have it all under control, now, don't we?

 

T

 
August 29, 2007, 10:25 am CDT

I have seen research to the contrary

Quote From: kathleen27

Pedophilia has been defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a MENTAL DISORDER, not a choice.  Research on the disorder is fragmented due to a lack of funding.  Why is this so?  Research scientists who do work in the field, are viewed as supporters of the pedophile, even though they seek to find a common link, a control, and finally a cure.  There have been genetic, heredity, and brain chemical findings, leading to a belief that pedophilia has many muliple components...but then the funds dry up.

As a parent, this enrages me.  As a member of society, it embarasses me.  Do we now say that all scientists doing cancer research are in support of cancer, and cut the funding, also?  Same with HIV, full blown AIDS, do those doing research to cure it actually support it...maybe....maybe it is all a big plot to kill us all, and we need to go back to the dark ages of medicine, so that these disease friendly researchers can't get us.  Maybe we'd be better off having left depression, OCD. ADD,schizophenia, bi-polar disorder....any other mental disorder...alone.  It really wasn't that bad, was it?

There are no IFS here, pedophilia has been defined by the professionals as a mental disorder.  It disgusts us...too damn bad...it is a prejudice of one genre of mental illness.  To deny the adequate reaearch to better understand it, is to be as slavery was to Blacks, as Hitler was to Jews.  I have been doing extensive research on my own, into scientific findings about pedophilia.  It is out there, and there are FACTS not to be disputed, and theories that have come to be from certain commonalities, yet from different research centers...quite respectable and well known facilities.  Then, the funds dry up.  SSRI drugs were showing to produce positive results.  Differences in the behaviors of the disorder were dispelling beliefs held in the era of ignorance.  Then the funds dry up.

IF, the operative word, we as a people, really care about the effects of this behavior, why do we let the funds dry up?  Pedophile supporters my backside!  If you are breaking your neck to find a path to an end, you are the greatest advocate for children...one to be commended, not silenced.  So, maybe we really don't care all that much...it's so much better to want them in jail...even when logic sreams that must be at the expense of a victim.  Do we care about the CHILDREN, or is it our own disgust, repulsion and thirst for blood, that supercedes the innocent being victimized to satisfy our personal feelings?  To convict, there must be a crime.  Every crime must have a victim.  I have personally seen too much published, seen so many similarities to these findings that paralell my childrens' offender, I can't look away...I want them to go on, as I feel they are on to something.  I'm sick of reading that the funds dried up, as my children were the victims of an under-researched mental illness, and did not have to be.  For those who suffered in the dark ages, in the era of "sweeping this under the rug", the era of negative absolutes and sterotyping...my God, I am sorry.  But it is not a tribute to them to remain in prejudice, stagnation and a lack of hope...because the funds keep drying up on "pedophile supporters"...who seek a way to stop it.

The true pedophile supporters are those who are in support of the status quo of yesteryear remaining as it was, not what it could be.

Look at your new born baby....would YOU, as a parent, accept a stigma, resulting in lack of medical research if your child had the misfortune to be born with a mental defect he/she did not ask for, nor did you?  Would you want not one stone to be left unturned to help YOUR child?  Would you accept the funds dried up as an answer, as you watch the progress of other mental disorders...just not for your child?  It infuriates me ,and I have to thank the show for causing me to go deeper, look further, put my own pain on hold, while I learned what should be today, common knowledge.  Thank you, to the silent ones, to the grants withheld, thank you all on behalf of the victims on this forum, on behalf of my children.  Your silence may have enabled some of us to suffer unnecessarily.  The information with held may have been the clue to prevention, so again, thank you all for your silence.  I'm pleased that I found as much as I did, and hope it can be taken further.  I know this is not as important for media attention,as lets say, Paris Hilton, Brittany Spears, or Tom Cruise.  Our values are as sick as the mind of a pedophile...perhaps more so, as we allegedly, are not suffering from a mental disorder...just a serious moral decline when with holding pertinent findings, and dried up funds have become O.K..  What the hell, they're just kids, and we, as laymen know it all about pedophiles. so why listen to experts in the field.  We have it all under control, now, don't we?

 

T

For every arguement you have made that this is a mental illness with research to back it, I have seen arguements and research that says this is not a mental illness with research to back that. I have also done extensive research having been a victim myself.
 
August 29, 2007, 1:32 pm CDT

So why not weigh both?

Quote From: xpoppy62

For every arguement you have made that this is a mental illness with research to back it, I have seen arguements and research that says this is not a mental illness with research to back that. I have also done extensive research having been a victim myself.

My children were victims, as such, my reason for research.  I also found research, and more of it, that says exactly what you have posted...and I came to accept it.  Until I went further, and now, I am infuriated that we are not privy to equal time given to both findings.  The research that I had accepted, was the old tried and true, yet the newer research offers hope...and hope does not minimize your pain.  I am sincerely sorry, my efforts are, in no way to undermine your suffering, but to prevent it from affecting others.  I can do nothing to change what happened to my own children. But I do not see swimming in stagnant waters to be of any tribute to them, or to you...to any victim.  If it proves nothing more, then we've lost nothing.  If, however, these men of science have valid alternatives, to not explore further is passive abuse.

The arguments being made are not by me, nor by you.  They are being made by objective professionals, to be passed on to me and to you.  If the professionals differ, as often many do, not only in this field, it is only further proof of the need to do more.  So much of this has been left in the dark ages.  We couldn't talk about this...it wasn't ever a subject on T.V. when I was young. Yet, today, we speak out and encourage others to do the same.  Why forge ahead in one lane, and halt motion on the next?  Both you and I have been hurt by this, but in differnt ways.  Neither of us could sit on a jury in a molestation case.  How could we be truly objective?  I'd like much more from the world of science, and from the mouths of those who CAN be, by far, more objective than myself.  Lets hear both sides.  We've brought this out to raise awareness in hope of prevention....maybe talk is not the only tool...Let's be given a chance to wiegh both theories, something that cannot happen when the funds dry up.

 
August 29, 2007, 8:16 pm CDT

The other option

Quote From: frenchie68

My apologies for taking so long to reply.  I had to take a step back from this, my temper was starting to flare,  I have a rule I live by.. never fight when angry and I was angry enough to fight.  I needed to get a rational perspective on this for myself before replying.

 

I still do not understand who's side you were on .. Gracies OR Grandpa's.

 

I hear that you wished you had that chance to have had your molester face you and apologize to you.  That is your experience, not Gracies and not your wifes experience.  One must be careful not to *push* or try to convince someone else walking teh same type of journey to do as you do or say.  It may not be right for them.  One thing I have learned having worked at a women's shelter for 5 years is that no matter what I think or feel a person should or shouldn't do it makes no difference.  Where they are in that given moment in time is where they need to be in their journey.  They alone direct and steer through their paths in the waythey choose.  I don't have to like it but I do have to respect their own decisions.  Now that's not to say I didn't plant a seed of a direction for someone especially when kids are involved.  At the end of the day, it's up to that person to make their choices.  That is between them and who they perceive God to be.  One of the hardest lessons I have ever had to learn and do struggle with at times but power is not mind to direct onto another person.   So in this case I agree to disagree with you on this.

 

As far as God is concerned.  He may have felt our suffering and he may take sins away but HE also requires a certain level of repsonsiblity from us all.  He gave us the freedom of choice, and he gave us guides on how to make good choices, and He does not interfer with the choices we make, not even the angels can interfer or try to steer us in any direction.  Brush up on your Beattitudes, Parables and re-visit Job's story.  Pay close attention to the what WE NEED to do.  Not just what Christ has come to do for us. 

 

For a lot of survivors, God not being there for them is extremely hard for them to realize or to see past and understandably so because of all the teachings.  God has been made out to be this gentle spirit and savior and thus expectations of him have gone a little to one side.  Christ has a temper too and he proved it in His Father's house when folks were abusing the purpose of His Fathers house.  God himself has angry moments and expresses His displeasure and brought down His hand.  Because of promises He has made to us all He does not intervene.  In my case I never expected God to be there or to save me.  I already knew he was there at age 9, instinctively.  He was not the one who threatened me, or raped me or tricked me.  That was not HIS hand.  That hand belonged to my rapist. and it was up to my rapist to take that responsibility for his really really bad choice.  God does things in a very subtle way 90% of the time.  Everyone finds Him in thier own way and their own time.  I am not going to argue the points about HIm because there is no way we will ever know who's right until we actually are face to face with HIm and he can tell us ourslves.  The Bible can be interpreted in so so many different ways.  Only He can tell us exactly what he meant.  Think I"ll wait to hear His responses when I get my chance to ask Him.

 

frenchie

Dear friend "on the other side of this computer" (Frenchie):

 

    Ok. You win. Let's try our other option.

    Hang Gramps.

 

    Seriously: I do thank you for waiting till you'd cooled before replying. I appreciate your respect.

 

    Best wishes,

    PhilFan

 
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