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Topic : 08/10 Wrongful Punishment

Number of Replies: 390
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Created on : Friday, April 13, 2007, 03:12:42 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 04/18/07) Fistfights in the living room, black eyes, stitches, a father punching a 17-year-old, a mother wrestling a 15-year-old to the floor … What do you do when you have no control over your teenager? Parents face off against teens in what Dr. Phil calls “one of the most disgusting displays of bad behavior on both sides that I have seen in years.” Brenda and Jim are constantly at war with Brenda’s three sons, Koltin, 17; and twins Austin and Dustin, 15. They say the teens have punched holes in the walls, physically attacked their stepfather and left home for days at a time! Brenda and Jim disagree on how to discipline their out-of-control teens and are even headed toward divorce because of it. How can they save the boys and their marriage? Then, meet a judge who believes creative punishments have the most impact. Judge Cicconetti doles out punishments that cause embarrassment and teach a lesson, such as making a teenager who stole a pornographic video sit blindfolded outside the store with a sign that reads “See no evil.” Opponents say creative punishments are abusive and cause more harm than good. What does Dr. Phil think? Join the discussion.

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April 13, 2007, 6:54 pm CDT

Creative Punishment

Well I have read a little bit about it. Unsure if I would ever do any of these things, but I agree its better then just making the childs butt red. But its the parents job to punish how they see fit, so I don't disagree with creative punishment.
 
April 14, 2007, 4:57 am CDT

04/18 Wrongful Punishment

hahahaha, ohhhhhhh hell yeah  creative punishments work  hahahaha, and for certain crimes its better than jail time, there was a guy that lied to our local police dept filing a false claim to them, I'm sure he saw no harm in telling the police a lie, but it caused them to spend time following up on something that didn't happen and waste there time chasing ghosts so to speak, well the judge decided to make an example of his ass for all to see  hahahaha , he had to wear a sighn saying this[  I AM A LIER I LIED TO THE POLICE ]  hahaha he had to walk back and forth on the sidewalk on the main street all day  lol, hell he even made the local news,  i would bet he wont ever tell the police a lie again as long as he lives, hahaha dr phil it did my heart good to see a just punishment fitting a crime, all this young man needed was to be taught a lesson, not givin a criminal record to follow him through his life, we need to see more true hearted justice in this country.
 
April 14, 2007, 9:53 am CDT

Creative punishment,Interesting...

I've never heard of it before. I'll just wait to see the show before I can decide anything. I DO know of a true story I read about a number of years ago. A woman was having some sort of behavior problems with her daughter-I can't remember the child's age-probably elementary school. Her pediatrician told her to "sit on the child". He didn't mean for her to actually SIT on her child. He meant for her to be stricter. Well,this crazy mother(who was kinda overweight-if I'm remembering correctly) actually SAT on the child and ultimately killed her. And I think she also put pepper in the child's mouth. I'm sure that creative punishment is not like this. And for God's sake ,that's not what the ped. meant in the first place!
 
April 14, 2007, 2:47 pm CDT

04/18 Wrongful Punishment

 I'm all for creative punishments. For our family they seem to work best. LOL! my daughter  (13) would rather be spanked than have to put up w/ our creativity. (straight from her mouth...."why can't you just spank me or something so it can be over with?")  I tell her "my dear that's the point. I want you to remember so you don't do it again.

One that sticks out in my mind...is when she got (my husband and I a fine) because she was forgetting to turn in Dr's. notes. We sat her down and told her 'this is YOUR fine and YOU"LL be paying it. She did odd jobs and SHE had to take the money in and pay it, get the reciept and file it. She also had to be honest w/her friends when they called, if she was going to her "work" she had to tell them where she was going and why. Let me tell ya, we've never had aproblem with her not taking in notes, slips,etc. since.

 
April 14, 2007, 3:05 pm CDT

04/18 Wrongful Punishment

Quote From: housewife52

I've never heard of it before. I'll just wait to see the show before I can decide anything. I DO know of a true story I read about a number of years ago. A woman was having some sort of behavior problems with her daughter-I can't remember the child's age-probably elementary school. Her pediatrician told her to "sit on the child". He didn't mean for her to actually SIT on her child. He meant for her to be stricter. Well,this crazy mother(who was kinda overweight-if I'm remembering correctly) actually SAT on the child and ultimately killed her. And I think she also put pepper in the child's mouth. I'm sure that creative punishment is not like this. And for God's sake ,that's not what the ped. meant in the first place!
I love the idea of creative punishments, especially for growing brains. Remember those boys on a show a while back who made the myspace account for a teacher and filled it with lies? I had an idea that these boys should have to walk around with sandwich boards with embarrassing lies about themselves. Stand in front of a hang out, like a theater or a mall and see how it feels to have lies said about you. I thought that would create empathy. Get them thinking. I think young minds are so different than adult minds, there is a real opportunity to make them really understand something, some concept.
 
April 14, 2007, 3:13 pm CDT

04/18 Wrongful Punishment

HMM, guess I would have to see just how "Creative " these punishments are, but lets face it, are the conventional ones working ? 

I remember a young man getting caught shoplifting in my area for the third time, the judge didn't think that Juvie would do it, so instead of Juvie for the six months or whatever it was, for six months he had to report to the store and do ALL the crap jobs that they had a hard time PAYING people to do, I guess the greese traps aren't pretty, being in school he could only work on the weekends, six months of weekends YUCK.  This is a pretty small area so he was well KNOWN and he had to FACE these people doing these jobs, did he learn anything, hell yes, he has since graduated High School with Honors and is now in University.

Fist fighting I don't agree with, BUT I feel if the boy at 17 hit first ( MOST seventeen year olds are the size of, if not bigger than their parents ) the father has the right to defend himself, same with the mother," hope you can run faster scared than I can MAD kiddo. "  Besides a 17 year old knows that is the WRONG thing to do, but the impulse control also isn't fully developed he might call his father out, but it is up to Dad to walk away from it, unless the kid starts it.

A "see no evil " sign, hey the only thing being hurt is his pride, and maybe that's what he needs, but I would question where the kid got the porn from in the first place, home, friend whatever  I think if a parent can come up with something creative that the kid won't be physically or too traumitized from then go for it.

Like I asked before, are the conventional things REALLY working ?

 
April 14, 2007, 4:45 pm CDT

Mother of Prodigal Daughter

I feel that punishment that reaps consequences is very good. With teenagers, it is one of the best ways to really make them understand that their behavior is unacceptable. They seem to really get it at this age where there are consequences. I have had to learn the very hard way that you have to stand up, have some guts to be a true parent these days and stop always trying to be their friend. If you don't you are harming them more. They need structure and security and to know that someone is really still in charge.

 

I had a wonderful sweet daughter up until age 13 when her hormones kicked in. Up until then, she was very little trouble, was very happy, was the sunshine of my life and was a joy to be with and to have in my life. Then as she approached age 16 1/2, her personality changed and she began to challenge me. She became angry and talked less and less about her feelings. She would still abide by the rules reluctantly, but stretched them, causing a need to invoke removing privileges. Being in high school, she became more and more influenced by others around her that had parents that allowed their kids to get away with anything, or who were not involved in their kids' lives. My daughter's grades remained good because I always encouraged her and I love education, and so did she. But I found her lowering her standards to meet the level of others at school, instead of setting examples for others by being different than the average. She never turned to drugs or alcohol thankfully, but she became sassy, used words that she knew were unacceptable in our home and began to challenge my authority. She often would strike out at me and seemed angry more than usual. She argued more and more, yelled and became irrational in her actions and thoughts. I became more and more scared of her and wondered if I could maintain control in our home. (Her father had left us 9 years earlier). So there was no male image to provide a good role model and to help support me. There was no united front to present to our daughter. She knew how to push my buttons and to draw me into her arguments and the negative energy she produced during those times. One day she started an argument over "nothing" and shoved me all the way from her room, down the hallway and into my bedroom right into the night stand. I fell down and hit the back of my head. I got up and tried to get out the bedroom door, only to find her blocking it. I then tried to run into the master bathroom to close the door and to lock it to give me time to get away from her and for her to cool off. Instead she blocked the entrance of the door, preventing me from closing it. I did not want to hurt her or damage the door. She shoved me into the back of the commode, breaking a very special porcelain jewelry box and grabbed my arms. I tried to block my face to protect it. I pleaded with her to leave me alone, to go to her room to cool off or to go out and take a walk until she cooled down. She refused. She finally backed away from me and after taking a minute to collect myself, I picked up the phone and dialed 911. I had to ask the police to come to the house. After taking  reports of the incident, I had to make the most difficult decision in my entire life. I had to let them take her out of the house and to Children's Services. I vowed there would never be any more arguing, fighting, cursing or out of control behavior in my home again. The lack of resepct for authority was totally unacceptable and enough was enough! I had been hit and bruised for the last time. But it brought the most pain to my heart I had ever experienced. I loved my daughter dearly, did not understand where this behavior was coming from and it broke my heart. But I had to do what was best for me, to have peace and safety restored to my home, and to steer her to where she could get help. She needed counseling and family counseling should have been included. Unfortunately, Children's Services did little to nothing to help and made our lives more miserable. Lesson: Had I started back when she was 13 getting her into counseling and encouraging her to express her feelings and gotten more parenting tools for myself, our lives would have been different. I know she loves me dearly and I love her with all my heart, but our relationship now needs a lot of healing and repair. Parents of teens definitely need help, encouragement and direction. Dr. Phil, I am so glad you are airing this topic and hope that you can provide many others like me with some real help. I want my daughter back, healed and whole again.  I pray for her every day. I pray for her to get past the anger, talk it out and for her to be willing to communicate and to truly listen to one another. There will be many layers for her to get through until she can get to the area where her feelings of love and the willingness to reconcile can be felt. I pray for that day to come soon. I hate missing out of her life and daily activities. There are still many life lessons I want to teach her - those difficult ones like trust, honesty, good communication skills, how to recognize good healthy people, to raise the standards for herself and to know that she is valued, loved and deserves more for herself. I want to leave her with a legacy that will stay with her long after I am gone. Dr. Phil, my mother passed away when I was only 21 from cancer and I am in a high risk category. I was not ready to have my mother die at such a young age and never ever thought that would happen. I was at the age where we were just becoming friends and close. I felt she abandoned me for many years until I discovered that I was actually angry at her for leaving me. Once I aired this feeling outloud, I was able to understand and healing came quickly after that. But it took 10 years for me to discover what was wrong. Those of you who still have their mothers and/or fathers living, cherish them.

 

Thank you from a mother who loves with all her heart. The parents really do the most suffering. But if it will be in the daughter's or son's best interest, then it makes it all worth it. We can take the pain if necessary, as long as it is born out of love for our children. Never give up on them, never give up hope, and show them unconditional love; it is so rare these days and it is a characteristic that our children need to know and understand that it does exist and they should settle for nothing less.

 
April 14, 2007, 4:47 pm CDT

Yes, I see what you mean.

Quote From: penny_lady

I love the idea of creative punishments, especially for growing brains. Remember those boys on a show a while back who made the myspace account for a teacher and filled it with lies? I had an idea that these boys should have to walk around with sandwich boards with embarrassing lies about themselves. Stand in front of a hang out, like a theater or a mall and see how it feels to have lies said about you. I thought that would create empathy. Get them thinking. I think young minds are so different than adult minds, there is a real opportunity to make them really understand something, some concept.
I remember that show. I do think that sometimes young people don't think about the consequences of what they do. I can also see those boys with sandwich boards with embarrassing lies about themselves. Surely it would make them realize more the effect it had on thier teacher. If I remember right they said that she was a lesbian? She was pretty much devastated and she didn't believe at the time that the boys realized the full effect of thier little "prank".That was why she was trying so hard to have something done about it. Seems like I remember DrPhil asking her if she really wanted one of the boys to have a record for the rest of his life? Creative punishment might have helped and then he wouldn't have had a record.
 
April 14, 2007, 4:57 pm CDT

No, I don't think the conventional punishments are always working.

Quote From: ceildh1

HMM, guess I would have to see just how "Creative " these punishments are, but lets face it, are the conventional ones working ? 

I remember a young man getting caught shoplifting in my area for the third time, the judge didn't think that Juvie would do it, so instead of Juvie for the six months or whatever it was, for six months he had to report to the store and do ALL the crap jobs that they had a hard time PAYING people to do, I guess the greese traps aren't pretty, being in school he could only work on the weekends, six months of weekends YUCK.  This is a pretty small area so he was well KNOWN and he had to FACE these people doing these jobs, did he learn anything, hell yes, he has since graduated High School with Honors and is now in University.

Fist fighting I don't agree with, BUT I feel if the boy at 17 hit first ( MOST seventeen year olds are the size of, if not bigger than their parents ) the father has the right to defend himself, same with the mother," hope you can run faster scared than I can MAD kiddo. "  Besides a 17 year old knows that is the WRONG thing to do, but the impulse control also isn't fully developed he might call his father out, but it is up to Dad to walk away from it, unless the kid starts it.

A "see no evil " sign, hey the only thing being hurt is his pride, and maybe that's what he needs, but I would question where the kid got the porn from in the first place, home, friend whatever  I think if a parent can come up with something creative that the kid won't be physically or too traumitized from then go for it.

Like I asked before, are the conventional things REALLY working ?

But one thing I have to wonder about the situation with the 17 year old and his parents actually physically fighting. Somehow along the way our kids figured out that hitting mom and dad is not right. I remember with both of them,as toddlers, kicking me in the shins when they were mad. I just squatted down to thier level and simply told them that kicking mama is not o.k. I guess they got the message. (I'm not trying to say I was the world's greatest mom and had all the answers. Looking back, there are some things I would have done differently. But really all I can do is look forward.) But back to this family I think something must be terribly wrong when it gets to this point.
 
April 14, 2007, 5:13 pm CDT

Ironically I just posted a message about wondering how the family on the show got to the point of being physical.

Quote From: clmarti777

I feel that punishment that reaps consequences is very good. With teenagers, it is one of the best ways to really make them understand that their behavior is unacceptable. They seem to really get it at this age where there are consequences. I have had to learn the very hard way that you have to stand up, have some guts to be a true parent these days and stop always trying to be their friend. If you don't you are harming them more. They need structure and security and to know that someone is really still in charge.

 

I had a wonderful sweet daughter up until age 13 when her hormones kicked in. Up until then, she was very little trouble, was very happy, was the sunshine of my life and was a joy to be with and to have in my life. Then as she approached age 16 1/2, her personality changed and she began to challenge me. She became angry and talked less and less about her feelings. She would still abide by the rules reluctantly, but stretched them, causing a need to invoke removing privileges. Being in high school, she became more and more influenced by others around her that had parents that allowed their kids to get away with anything, or who were not involved in their kids' lives. My daughter's grades remained good because I always encouraged her and I love education, and so did she. But I found her lowering her standards to meet the level of others at school, instead of setting examples for others by being different than the average. She never turned to drugs or alcohol thankfully, but she became sassy, used words that she knew were unacceptable in our home and began to challenge my authority. She often would strike out at me and seemed angry more than usual. She argued more and more, yelled and became irrational in her actions and thoughts. I became more and more scared of her and wondered if I could maintain control in our home. (Her father had left us 9 years earlier). So there was no male image to provide a good role model and to help support me. There was no united front to present to our daughter. She knew how to push my buttons and to draw me into her arguments and the negative energy she produced during those times. One day she started an argument over "nothing" and shoved me all the way from her room, down the hallway and into my bedroom right into the night stand. I fell down and hit the back of my head. I got up and tried to get out the bedroom door, only to find her blocking it. I then tried to run into the master bathroom to close the door and to lock it to give me time to get away from her and for her to cool off. Instead she blocked the entrance of the door, preventing me from closing it. I did not want to hurt her or damage the door. She shoved me into the back of the commode, breaking a very special porcelain jewelry box and grabbed my arms. I tried to block my face to protect it. I pleaded with her to leave me alone, to go to her room to cool off or to go out and take a walk until she cooled down. She refused. She finally backed away from me and after taking a minute to collect myself, I picked up the phone and dialed 911. I had to ask the police to come to the house. After taking  reports of the incident, I had to make the most difficult decision in my entire life. I had to let them take her out of the house and to Children's Services. I vowed there would never be any more arguing, fighting, cursing or out of control behavior in my home again. The lack of resepct for authority was totally unacceptable and enough was enough! I had been hit and bruised for the last time. But it brought the most pain to my heart I had ever experienced. I loved my daughter dearly, did not understand where this behavior was coming from and it broke my heart. But I had to do what was best for me, to have peace and safety restored to my home, and to steer her to where she could get help. She needed counseling and family counseling should have been included. Unfortunately, Children's Services did little to nothing to help and made our lives more miserable. Lesson: Had I started back when she was 13 getting her into counseling and encouraging her to express her feelings and gotten more parenting tools for myself, our lives would have been different. I know she loves me dearly and I love her with all my heart, but our relationship now needs a lot of healing and repair. Parents of teens definitely need help, encouragement and direction. Dr. Phil, I am so glad you are airing this topic and hope that you can provide many others like me with some real help. I want my daughter back, healed and whole again.  I pray for her every day. I pray for her to get past the anger, talk it out and for her to be willing to communicate and to truly listen to one another. There will be many layers for her to get through until she can get to the area where her feelings of love and the willingness to reconcile can be felt. I pray for that day to come soon. I hate missing out of her life and daily activities. There are still many life lessons I want to teach her - those difficult ones like trust, honesty, good communication skills, how to recognize good healthy people, to raise the standards for herself and to know that she is valued, loved and deserves more for herself. I want to leave her with a legacy that will stay with her long after I am gone. Dr. Phil, my mother passed away when I was only 21 from cancer and I am in a high risk category. I was not ready to have my mother die at such a young age and never ever thought that would happen. I was at the age where we were just becoming friends and close. I felt she abandoned me for many years until I discovered that I was actually angry at her for leaving me. Once I aired this feeling outloud, I was able to understand and healing came quickly after that. But it took 10 years for me to discover what was wrong. Those of you who still have their mothers and/or fathers living, cherish them.

 

Thank you from a mother who loves with all her heart. The parents really do the most suffering. But if it will be in the daughter's or son's best interest, then it makes it all worth it. We can take the pain if necessary, as long as it is born out of love for our children. Never give up on them, never give up hope, and show them unconditional love; it is so rare these days and it is a characteristic that our children need to know and understand that it does exist and they should settle for nothing less.

Then I read your message and gained more understanding. I'm sorry you had to deal with your daughter alone. I know that makes a big difference. I have often said it would have been a lot harder for me if I'd had to raise my 2 alone. And I know it just turns out that way sometimes. I was always one to talk and explain things to my kids. Not that it always did any good. I had this thing I called the "Mother's Handbook". I would have an invisible imaginery book in my hands and when one of them would want to know why they couldn't do so and so .. I'd open my imaginery book and read chapter and verse why they couldn't . Since they have grown up, they both have told me they hated the "Mother's Handbook". I have told them it was one way for me to cope with thier questions of why can't I and everyone else does it. I thought it was better than smacking them around. Anyway, all thier Dad had to do was speak and that was that. He didn't smack them around either but he didn't try to explain things to them like I did. I guess together we made a good team. I just have such hope that you and your daughter can reconcile.Hang in there.
 
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