Topic : 08/10 Wrongful Punishment

I myself had written Dr. Phil about the prison system here in Phoenix, AZ. I had four sons and out of the four, three have been in prison as repeat offenders.

One got out and is still out. One is back in agian. And my youngest son only 32, got out in July 06 was shot and killed my a police officer in Phoenix. So I would say our Judges here need to at least try something different. This mother is living proof that the punishment all my sons received didn't help the person at all and made them very hard and withdrawn. And yet acting tough to say alive while in prison....I watched the show tonight and whole heartedly agree with what Dr. Phil said and love the judge.

I think that the boys on the show were very powerful within the family and able to control what went on there, since they are a concerted group that worked together against the rest of the family.  I think that Dr. Phil had the right idea in getting them to buy into a different paradigm.  They were so into how they had been unjustly treated and not particularly remorseful--the thing that stood out to me was how smart they are and how able they are to manipulate their environment.  (BTW, I have seen kids take over classrooms in the same way.)  In creative punishing, I saw what the lady was saying:  the humiliation of the jackass served no purpose, while the picnic did.  Maybe the kids needed to be part of the nativity scene--something to add value to their lives. My worry for the rock throwing kids was that someone with road rage would harm them. Maybe have them volunteer somewhere where they could see the danger of their actions.  One teen from around here had unsafe sex. So his mom (worked for planned parenthood type org), had him dress up as a condom and hand out condoms on a downtown street corner.  He took it well--it was a funny thing, but he learned and was not resentful.  These kinds of insights for "lasting consequences" are hard to come by, but they are priceless. In any case, the judge was trying to come up with lifetime experiences for people who came to his court, and they weren't as punitive as they were an attempt to get the guys to reframe their actions.  Interesting show!

I agree with Dr. Phil and the Judge.  Good for him to care enough to put some thought into his punishments.  It would be very easy for him to toss these folks in jail and forget about them.  He seems like he cares enough about his community and the people that live there to try to make a difference.  KUDOS!  Wish there were more of you around.

       W0W!    This is the most disgusting, horrible  display I have ever seen.  What makes me mad is that one of the boys was hungry and all he wanted was to get something from the kitchen, but he was beat up for it.    The Mother is the epitome of a bad Mom. The fact that she took her own kids to court for hitting jim  sickens me.  Yes its true that the sons are a little out of control, but using violence as discipline will just make them more defiant, hence their bad school grades. In general  these boys are all intelligent and if placed in the right care could  have a rewarding future.  I will not sleep until these parents are in Prison.  As a Martial Artist, I  would love to meet these parents in a dark alley and straighten them up, before sending them to jail.

I couldn't help but wonder where these boys' real father is today?

It appeared to me that these boys were coached pretty well by someone else.

I think that the mother plays a HUGE part in this because these kids didn't go bad overnight

all because of a step father! I don't buy that. I heard the oldest boy say that he is in control. My feeling is that the kids have had full control and got their way from day one. It's a result of poor parenting and it most likely happened BEFORE the step father got onboard.

I believe that with a united force that the kids can change. If you have two parents or even extended families who disagree with each other, the kids are basically going to pit one person against the other. It appears that the boys have somewhat succeeded in pitting the parents against each other.

I do think that it will be a difficult road for the mother to discipline them since they are older now.

The mother needs to take back control and every single person on this earth needs to support her 100%. I think it's interesting how the boys said their stepfather was nice for years in the beginning. I believe all along, the mother did not instill boundaries and self discipline in these kids and it is very possible that their father or other people empowered them by telling them that consequences are wrong and that they are suffering wrongful punishment. There may be others that have undermined her authority (Like her ex husband) for years? To pin it all on the step-father is unfair. If there are outside influences, they need to allow their mother to take back control and support her.

Lets do some word asociation here, 1.  "Liberal = Free will, Creative, Acceptance.

                                                                   2.  "Consertive = Judgemental, Non Flexable, and some   

                                                                                                  might say narrow minded.

Acutally the judge's punishments are somewhat "liberal" a more "consertive" judge would have given these people the death penalty...

How sad it is when adults have no insight on how their behavior is no better than their childrens.  Adults are guilty of not looking ahead to what kind of adults do they want to produce, from hard work.  I learned early on "not to bring myself down to my children's bad behavior" and to stand tall and strong.  Children really need the strength of their parents to sustain them during their turmoil years.  Where else are children going to learn how to be strong if not from their parents?  Children do not like to see weakness from their parents.  When a parent displays weakness, it just makes the children feel "stronger" against them.  Dr. Phil is right, those boys are not bad people, just have bad behaviors.  Too, it will take help for the whole family to get through this.  Children look forward to leaving home and being an adult, that is a "right of passage" and it will depend on how parents treat them as to how "soon" they can get out and "stay out."

I pray this family will listen to those who know and to realize it won't be easy to undo what has already been done.

God be with them all