Topic : 04/26 Obsessive Love

Not once did I hear Dr. Phil say anything to her about the affair and I am so sorry but if my husband heard a phone message from a man stating "you must be in the bath tub" he would go a little nutsy also.  Granted, Jeffery is way over the top and is mentally ill but she didn't help the situation by cheating.  Dr. Phil just skipped over the phone message like it is normal for a "guy friend" to make that statement.  I think Jennifer has led him on a little.  That just shouldn't happen when you are in a marriage, period.  

I understand this series all too well.  I live it.  My husband is THE most charming and handsome man that you can imagine.  Most people who meets him think he is Gods gift to women.  They might even go so far as to say I don't deserve him.  He has a good job.  (Thank God b/c I'm not allowed to work.)  He goes back and forth so often I never even know who I'm dealing with anymore.  One minute he wants to love me and be all over me - which to his thought process is one in the same and the next minute he's calling me names in front of my kids and threatening to leave and take them from me.  He never does b/c he is just trying to scare me.  I have aquired several health conditions in the last few years due to the constant struggle with what is right and what is wrong.  He has invaded every portion of my life with sneaking, checking, and manipulating.  I have grown to think it was my own fault and that I deserve it all.  Last year I got an atty and was going to file for divorce.  I moved a lot of things out of our home and started leaving to sleep at friends' houses right after my kids went to bed so I didn't have to fight with him.  After 4-5 mos of doing that I met someone out with a friend and stayed at his place a few times.  WE DID NOT HAVE SEX!  I just felt safe being with someone who told me it was ok to believe in myself and leave someone who had convinced me that I wasn't worthy of love anymore and also to have someone just hold me gently without the expecatation of sex just because we were married.  My husband constantly messed with me while I was sleeping.   Sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night and he would be having sex with me.  I felt so violated!!  My husband had me followed one night and took my children out of bed on a school night at 3:30 am to this guys boat where I was sleeping and broke into it.  I was wearing a T-shirt and underpants.  He made me get off the boat without allowing me to put on my jeans and forced me to walk to the car in front of my children saying he wanted them to see what  F-ing Whore their mother was.  On the way home I said out loud that I didn't sleep with the guy and he back handed me in the mouth causing my lips to bleed.  When we got home my nine yr old son called 911.  They came and said they were going to press charges.  He's now on probation for a couple more months but he bought a shotgun and carries a knife with him at all times.  He kept the ammunition next to my bed (a reminder - I'm sure) until I gave it to my father to take home.  The gun is in our attic but isn't locked up and daily he says he's gonna divorce me or he says he will NOT get a divorce because it is against God's Will.  He is extremely irresponsible and I don't think he knows what to do.  I have had nothing to do with that person since that night on the boat nor do I want to either.  I just think it's best if my husband and I get a divorce but my kids talk about it everyday saying they don't want us to.  There isn't much left to our life together and I just go day to day hoping it changes itself.  I have lost my job b/c my employers thought it was too risky to keep me on with him watching my car daily and following me around and showing up in the office everyday.  I feel trapped and also like I'm the one who has caused my children all of this pain.  I should have let the divorce go through before I saw anyone.  Now the whole thing is on hold and we're all in counseling.  What a mess and how did I never even see it coming?

After her experience with that psychotic maniac I can't imagine why in the world she'd want to hook up with any man - she'd better take her kids and get herself and them into the witness protection program before Jeffrey is released from jail.  He is beyond just being an obsessive personality - he's psychotic and very very dangerous.  It would not surprise me to hear about a family being murdered - she and her kids and then the psychotic husband will kill himself too.  It's obvious he is of the mindset that he can't live without her - I fear that once he realizes it's over between them for good it really WILL be over - for all over them - permanently.  This whole situation is well beyond Dr. Phil's level of expertise - Dr. Phil needs to get the woman and her kids some  help from a REAL therapist and he should stick to writing Diet Books and promoting his wife's books.

for abused women.  There are fewer shelters for them than there are for abandoned or unwanted animals.  What would you suggest she do?  Reaching out to others may have been the only option she felt she had.  Maybe not the best solution, but who is to judge?

 

Let's see, the last time I checked, having a PhD in psychology qualifies someone as a 'real' therapist.  Dr. Phil does more than write diet books.  He has brought in attorneys, private investigators and security personnel to assist Jennifer.  I'd call that real help, wouldn't you?

 

 

I agree & while I think that Dr. Phil was right on in this matter & particularly with the way Jeffrey was trying to "play him" like all abusers do.  They are often master con men & will *act so crazy* they have people believing he's  "beyond just being an obsessive personality - he's psychotic"

 When in reality they're nothing more than calculating, coniving & deceiftful abusers................ 

 

Jeffrey wasn't even that good of a con artist & that's why he'd gone through 4 counselors prior to Dr. Phil, because they ALL had his number! 

 

Dr. Phil did great in tailoring his advice on this and I was kind of proud of him for seeing this IT for what IT really was.  NOTHING.............

 

Running away is the WORST thing Jennifer can do because he WILL find her & when he does if she's got no one around her who knows she's got *no one around her*.  She needs to be surrounded by many people who know (friends, family & police) & are ready to take action.............. 

dlovesky I wrote out a lenghtly post to you but then I was asked if I wanted to "log out" & because I was typing I guess it was an auto enter & the entire post was lost.    Soooooo Long story short.  Please understand that I took the time the first time to be very delicate here but in the desire to post & yet get some sleep if I sound like I'm judging  you please know I'm not.  I do understand & this is more a pointing out of things you are just not able to see.  Like when you tell a friend something & they just don't see what you're saying when to you it is *so clear*.  It isn't that there's something wrong with them they are just not able to see what you do.  Anyway here we go.    Like many abuse victims you're very confused.  don't feel bad because many don't understand abuse & that is why there's many that'll sit here judging a woman (Jennifer) who was a victim of person capable of things that make people think he's crazy.  He is not crazy & neither is your husband, but they are caluculated & manipulative abusers.  Please continue to read some pieces of info from different sources on the internet & then do visit their web sites & read on yourself ok? This site is a GREAT place for info & the resources given here are just wonderful too.  Make certain to go to the links & see what is offereed there.  http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/

To consider whether your partner emotionally abuses you, look at the information available on physical abusers.  The patterns are similar:

COMMON CHARACTERISTICS OF ABUSERS
(adapted)

* He was verbally abused as a child, or witnessed it in his own family.

* He has an explosive temper, triggered by minor frustrations and arguments.

* Abusers are extremely possessive and jealous.  They experience an intense desire to control their mates.

* His sense of masculinity depends on the woman's dependency upon him.  He feels like a man only if his partner is totally submissive and dependent on him.

* Abusers often have superficial relationships with other people.   Their primary, if not exclusive, relationship is with their wife/girlfriend.

* He has low self-esteem.

* He has rigid expectations of marriage (or partnership) and will not compromise.  He expects her to behave according to his expectations of what a wife should be like; often the way his parents' marriage was, or its opposite.  He demands that she change to accommodate his expectations.

* He has a great capacity for self-deception.  He projects the blame for his relationship difficulties onto his partner.  He would not be drunk if she didn't nag him so much.  He wouldn't get angry if only she would do what she's supposed to do.  He denies the need for counseling because there's nothing wrong with him.  Or he agrees to get counseling and then avoids it or makes excuses to not follow through.  He might not want her to get counseling because, he reasons, she wouldn't have any problems if she only turned to him.

* He may be described as having a dual personality -- he is either charming or exceptionally cruel.  He is selfish or generous depending on his mood.

* A major characteristic of abusers is their capacity to deceive others.  He can be cool, calm, charming and convincing:  a con man.

* The mate is usually a symbol.  The abuser doesn't relate to his partner as a person in her own right, but as a symbol of a significant other.   This is especially true when he's angry.  He assumes that she is thinking, feeling, or acting like that significant other -- often his mother.

 

http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles.html

Here is another web site by Lundy Bancroft who's an expert in the area of behaviors of abusive men

in an article written by Lundy Bancroft for assessing treatment programs for abusers he says .....

 

"A well-run program can contribute in many ways to the movement, while a poorly-run program can actively endanger abused women, shelter batterers from accountability, and be tools of a batterer’s manipulations. It is becoming increasingly important for battered women’s programs and coalitions to be able to assess and monitor the quality of programs for abusive men (usually called “Batterer Intervention Programs”), in order to avoid supporting a destructive program and to be able to put pressure on courts not to refer men to it. It is unfortunate that advocates need to take this monitoring function on, given how overworked and underfunded victims’ programs already are; however, given the huge growth in the past 10-15 years in the number of batterer programs, and the serious harm that is growing out of the actions of some of those programs, I believe that it is essential to allocate some resources in that direction. "   He goes on to say .........   As 30 years of clinical experience and a huge collection of research studies have demonstrated, battering is primarily a cultural problem, not a psychological one; that is to say, battering is a learned and socially reinforced behavior used to exert power and control in an intimate relationship, tightly linked to the history of male domination. A BIP needs to understand from the outset that battering behavior is mostly chosen, goal-oriented behavior, used to enforce the abuser’s will and intimidate the victim. If program personnel take the view that battering is largely a  product of stress, low self-esteem, substance abuse, mental health problems, or bad relationships dynamics, the program will end up contributing more to the problem than to the solution. "   I'm so fearful that the counseling you're in is leaving you at a HIGH RISK  because an abuser has no place in couples counseling.  I just don't think the courts always realize what they're doing.    Again from the same article by Lundy Bancroft. "

What services will the program provide? Batterer intervention needs to be kept separate from other services. Specifically: 1) If the program reports that it will also be providing couples or family counseling for men in the program, the program is not appropriate, even if personnel say they will only do so “if the man is making good progress”. Huge safety concerns exist regarding conjoint counseling work with batterers; moreover, a batterer program that also offers couples counseling is sending the message to the battered woman that she can share responsibility for the batterer’s change, which is false. 2) Groups should not attempt to address substance abuse and domestic violence in depth in the same program; batterers who have substance abuse issues need to be in recovery and to be receiving separate services for their addiction. 3) The program should not claim to decide which men need batterer intervention and which need “anger management”; if the man is in the program because of any degree of violence, threats, sexual assault, or chronic verbal abuse toward an intimate partner, he is not appropriate for anger management. "

See where I have the bold Italic?  A battered woman does NOT share the responsibility for the batterere's change.  It is a false belief & this man has YEARS of experience............    Jennifer didn't do anything that "created jeffrey" & you didn't do anything to "create" your abuser.  It's just like Dr. Phil said Abusers abuse because of *them*.  It's what they do.    On his web site Lundy Bancroft has posted a outline for an article on "assessing change in men who abuse women" How many things do we see that would have fit in the questions Dr. Phil gave in his "test questions" that Jeffrey failed?  And see how many people in the general public are fooled by Jeffrey?  They are charming con men & have even therapists fooled some times except for Jeffrey he's not good enough to fool the therapists & that's why he'd gone through 4 prior to Dr. Phil.  http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles_sub/assessing_change.htm  

 

(****  This is an outline for an article I have not yet written, but I thought it might be helpful to people already. ******)

 

by Lundy Bancroft

 

 

 

 

Admitting fully to what he has done

 

Stopping excuses

 

Stopping all blaming of her

 

Making amends

 

Accepting responsibility (recognizing that abuse is a choice)

 

Identifying patterns of controlling behavior, admitting their wrongness

 

Identifying the attitudes that drive his abuse

 

Accepting that overcoming abusiveness will be a decades-long process, not declaring himself cured

 

Not starting to say, “so now it’s your turn to do your work”, not using change as a bargaining chip

 

Not demanding credit for improvements he has made

 

Not treating improvements as chips or vouchers to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (e.g. “I haven’t done anything like this in a long time, so why are you making such a big deal about it?”)

 

Developing respectful, kind, supportive behaviors

 

Carrying his weight

 

Sharing power

 

Changing how he is in highly heated conflicts

 

Changing how he responds to his partner’s (or former partner’s) anger and grievances

 

Changing his parenting

 

Changing his treatment of her as a parent

 

Changing his attitudes towards females in general

 

Accepting the consequences of his actions (including not feeling sorry for himself about those consequences, and not blaming her or the children for them)

 

 

Last but not least I want to tell you I'm really affraid for you.  I think your husband is of a extremely high risk to hurt or kill & so I'm going to pot the national hotline number for you & this is under the resources section of Lundy Bancroft's web site.

For Women of All Backgrounds

            •  National Domestic Violence Hotline for the United States and Canada: 1-800-799-SAFE.

            Call this number to receive a referral to the closest hotline for abused women in your area. The use of this number is not restricted to women who have experienced physical violence: Women and teens are welcome to call with any issue regarding verbal abuse or control in a relationship, or just because something is happening in their relationship that is making them uncomfortable.

I'm sure this is in the front of all phone books.  I'm sure they're also online too & they can direct you to the local chapters.  You should be calling ASAP to find out what your rights are & to let them know about the threat he poses to you, that he is on probation & find out if he's in violation of it. 

 

None of this is about your behaviors or Jennifer's it's about abusive men & if you were both the mirror of Mother Therasa an abuser would find fault & abuse you both for it.  This is NOT your FAULT & this has been brainwashed into you & is clear on your post & why your confusion jumps out of the page.  Now the following is taken from Lundry Bancrofts web site on assessing the danger of an abuser.  See how many fit Jeffrey & look to see how many fit your husband & remember when they say to use your "gut" instincts.  And as far as the kids go well they have parents because what they want isn't always what's best & so it's a parent who does what's best.  It's not best for them to see you abused. 

 

this is a *piece* taken from the "assessing the dangerousness of men who abuse women"

"(Based on sections of Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men)

         A considerable body of research has accumulated about predicting dangerousness in men who batter. The work of Jacquelyn Campbell and of Neil Websdale has been particularly important and insightful in this regard.

            Abuser programs, other professionals, and abused women themselves have the need to assess the potential that a particular abuser has to kill or dangerously harm his current or former partner and any children that are involved. A considerable number of risk factors have emerged that have predictive value in making such an assessment.

            Danger assessment for men who abuse women is still far from being an exact science, however. There are documented killings by men whose previous profile did not make them appear to have the potential for such severe or cruel violence. Therefore all abused women should be encouraged to work with a trained advocate on creating a safety plan. Women should also be encouraged to take seriously intuitions that they have about the dangerousness of a partner or former partner, even if he does not exhibit a large number of the risk factors listed below.

            Factors that should be taken particularly seriously include:

 

·      The woman has a strong “gut” sense that the man could kill her or her children, or could carry out a serious and dangerous assault against any of them or against himself.

·       He is extremely jealous and possessive. This characteristic becomes even more worrisome when he appears to be obsessive, constantly keeping her at the center of his thoughts and appearing to be unable to conceive of life without her. He has, for example, made statements such as, “If I can’t have you, nobody will.”

·       He has a history of severe or very frequent violence toward her, or toward other individuals such as past partners.

·       He follows her, monitors her whereabouts, uses high-tech means to keep tabs on her, or stalks her in other ways. He knows where she lives and works, knows names and addresses of her friend or relatives, or is in very familiar with her daily routines.

·       She is taking steps to end the relationship, or has already done so.

·       He was violent to her during a pregnancy.

·       There are stepchildren involved.

·       He has threatened to kill her or to hurt her severely, has strangled her, or has threatened her with a weapon (including making verbal reference to using a weapon, even if he did not actually brandish it). He has threatened to kill the children or the whole family.

·       He has access to weapons and/or he is familiar with their use.

·       He is depressed, suicidal, or shows signs of not caring what happens to him. He has, for example, threatened to kill himself if she leaves him.

·       He is unemployed.

·       He isn’t close to anyone, and no current relationships with friends or relatives are important to him.

·       He has a significant criminal history and/or he has a history of using violence or threatening violence against other people.

·       He abuses alcohol or drugs heavily, especially if his habits involve daily or nearly daily intoxication.

·       He has been violent to children.

·       He has killed or in other ways been violent to pets, or has used other terror tactics.

·       He uses pornography heavily and/or has a history or perpetrating sexual violence or degradation against his partner or others.

·       He has exhibited extreme behaviors when his current partner or past partners have made attempts to leave him.

 

            The current state of knowledge does not make it possible to create a formula from the above factors to create low, moderate, and high-risk categories of risk. A particularly extreme presentation in even one of the above categories can be a basis for serious concern. Professionals, abused women, and others attempting to use this list of factors, need to apply their findings with common sense and intuition. When an abusive man appears particularly dangerous based on the above factors or for other reasons, professionals involved with him should inform the abused woman as soon as possible (more on this below). They should also inform appropriate police departments, any mental health or child protection professionals involved with the man, and anyone else who might be in a position to prevent a dangerous assault from taking place. "

 

Please do take precautions to get out fast if you need to.  & please contact the authorities that your husband has a gun & had bullets next to your bed.  Just because they are gone doesn't mean it wasn't a threat & it doesn't mean there aren't more.  And please go first tot he phone & make the call & find out what your rights are & what resources are available to you.  Stay safe & God Bless.

 

ok the "bath tub" comment.  Imagine her saying to a bunch of friends "My God I'm finally home here & I've had all these PI's going through the house & finding all kinds of bugs in teh house & recording devices etc. & it has REALLY creeped me out!  But FINALLY I can relax tonight & take a shower/bath without thinking I'm being watched or having Jeffre take my picture!  I can't wait to get in the tub tonight".  & then when a friend calls to check on this woman who's been *emotionally battered for 11 yrs.* there's no answer & he says "Ah Iimagine you're in the tub now.  I'll call back later".  I would say that to a friend who I'd already spoken too.  I could see me saying "hey you must be in the shower I'll call you back in a little while".  Jennifer will NEED men around her now because she is going to be scared out of her mind!  What is so tough about this for people to understand?  You people are all focused on a statement made in a conversation that was twisted by an ABUSER to be able to say "see you're a slut" & call her yet another name & point blame & degrade his victim!  He was also upset that the "camera men were going though Jennifer's underware drawer"?  I mean he's in a lock up & he's concerned about her underware drawer?  Was that going to be her fault too?  & this is the same person upset over the message from a man saying "you must be in the bath"?  Big woo !  If you came home from work & friends knew you had a crappy day & one of the men in the group called to check on you & realizing you said you were going to soak in a tub mentioned "ah you must be in the tub" your husband would go a little nutzo?  Let me tell you if that's the case there's a serious trust issue in your marriage.  It just wouldn't occur to me that him mentioning the tub or a bath would me there's a sexual interest.  That's something a brother or father might say "ah you must be in the bath.  I'll call back later".  Yet this is what people focus on .  Not the fact this man tried to offer his wife for sex to a friend with their *little girl* sleeping in the bed with her mother.?  what would your hubby do then?  & for someone who's so nutso over a man mentioning the tub isn't that a bit odd?  It has nothing to do with him being jealous of another man it's him having control like all abusers!    

 

This is not about Jennifer's behaviors & Jeffrey is not way over the top &/or mentally ill.  He is an abuser & he married a teenager who he'd gotten pregnant who was 11 yrs. his junior because she'd be easy prey!  What might look to a teenager like romantic & over protective jealousy would to a 30 yr. old woman who is a  *peer* seem like a controlling jackass!  Dr. Phil did not "just skip over the phone message" because this isn't about Jennifer's behaviors it's about an abuser & he'd said that already.  Jeffrey isn't disilussional in that he sees things different than everyone else he sees it very clearly, but he twists things to fit what he wants so he can "punish Jennifer".  That's why when he called her on the phone right after he'd called her mother he'd said "you got me locked up here so now you can run around".  This is when the PI's are going through the house & long before any "calls" & it was not "her" that got "him locked up" but "him" Jeffrey that got him locked up.  He doesn't really see it as her that got him locked up though he will convince himself of that because then he can tighten ther reigns even tighters & thus punish Jennifer even more!  He is not ill he is a manipulator. 

 

We do all ralize that he'd had a former wife leave him for these very same abusive behaviors right?  He's an abuser ....................

 

Lundy Bancroft expert in abusive men & their behaviors. 

http://www.lundybancroft.com/pages/articles_sub/assessing_change.htm

 

Lets see how many of these fit Jeffrey & then ask yourself how many did the *smart Dr. Phil* ask to trip Jeffrey up to get the real answers out of him?  and the answers reflex MANY of the points in Bancrofts outline..........

 

(****  This is an outline for an article I have not yet written, but I thought it might be helpful to people already. ******)

 

by Lundy Bancroft

 

 

 

 

Admitting fully to what he has done

 

Stopping excuses

 

Stopping all blaming of her

 

Making amends

 

Accepting responsibility (recognizing that abuse is a choice)

 

Identifying patterns of controlling behavior, admitting their wrongness

 

Identifying the attitudes that drive his abuse

 

Accepting that overcoming abusiveness will be a decades-long process, not declaring himself cured

 

Not starting to say, “so now it’s your turn to do your work”, not using change as a bargaining chip

 

Not demanding credit for improvements he has made

 

Not treating improvements as chips or vouchers to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (e.g. “I haven’t done anything like this in a long time, so why are you making such a big deal about it?”)

 

Developing respectful, kind, supportive behaviors

 

Carrying his weight

 

Sharing power

 

Changing how he is in highly heated conflicts

 

Changing how he responds to his partner’s (or former partner’s) anger and grievances

 

Changing his parenting

 

Changing his treatment of her as a parent

 

Changing his attitudes towards females in general

 

Accepting the consequences of his actions (including not feeling sorry for himself about those consequences, and not blaming her or the children for them)

 

from the show and the beginning of Dr. Phil getting to the nitty gritty here when Jeffrey flips from one explaination to another............. A con will completely switch tactics or lies if need be & Jeffrey does. 

He starts by exusing his behavior by blaming Jennifer for scaring him & him "not knowing what to do to earn another chance" Dr. Phil calls him on it. 

Jeffrey says that Jennifer has threatened to leave before, but he wasn't scared until the last eight months. "I want to know what I have to do to earn another chance," he says.

 

Dr. Phil doesn't know if he believes Jeffrey. "You have been not to one, not to two, not to three, but to four different therapists who have told you what you need to do, and you fire them every time, because they don’t tell you what you want to hear. So you lean on your own understanding," he says to him. "If you’re so smart, then how come you’re in such a problem with your marriage?"

See he doesn't want to know how to "earn another chance" he just wants a therapist to say "you should work this out by doing this that & some other thing" so he can continue tojust go along doing what he's doing any way.  Dr. Phil tells him that every time a therapist tells him what to do he fires them...............& so Jeffrey chanes position on "why he does what he does & now it's a "complusion"

 

"It's a compulsion. It really is," Jeffrey says. He explains that he will catch himself in the middle of doing something that he knows is going to hurt Jennifer, like erasing all the work numbers in her phone, but he just can't stop doing it.

 

And so calling someone we profess to love vile names is & telling them they're "worthless" is his idea of working at another chance or is this part of his "complusion" that he call her vile names.  Is he telling her she's "worthless" to cut her down, fill her with fear & make her feel she can't make it on her own to "keep her" & how is this because of his jealousy?  That's not jealousy that's him afraid his prey is getting away!  Dr. Phil ever so right calls him on it. 

Dr. Phil lists Jeffrey's obsessive behaviors including calling Jennifer a slut, a whore, a bitch and worthless. "What do you predict when you do that?" 

 And bingo after being *bagger* by someone who Jeffrey cannot bully we get the *real answer*

"I've done things to keep her where I'm comfortable," Jeffrey says.

he likes her feeling horrible & THAT is where he is comfortable with her in her place!  And that my friend is an ABUSER  and that is Jeffrey plain & simple. 

 

& no noe of that should happen in a marriage & I'm so happy you & so many others are so far removed from it that you all don't recognize it when there are professionals on national TV diagnosing.  This means that you're not suffering from it & that makes me happy.  The sad part is this is the reason so many abuse victims stay because they're abusers make it clear no one will believe them. 

Dr. Phil didn't say anything about her affairs because this has nothing to do with her affairs. Not one thing and those who keep bringing it up are sick abuse apologists. 

"I am so sorry but if my husband heard a phone message from a man stating "you must be in the bath tub" he would go a little nutsy also."

I'm sorry your marriage is in such a state of distrust that your husband would go "nutsy" about a phone message.

"Granted, Jeffery is way over the top and is mentally ill but she didn't help the situation by cheating."

She also didn't CREATE the situation by cheating. (Someone should make a timeline for this relationship.)

"Dr. Phil just skipped over the phone message like it is normal for a "guy friend" to make that statement."

What did this message say that was so OUT THERE? First of all, she's leaving the jerk at this point, she can have all the sexy phone messages she wants...them marriage was OVER. Second of all...it wasn't a sexy message to begin with. As the other poster stated...assuming it's sexual is one narrow assumption.

that so many keep coming back with the same stuff over & over.  To come up with a time line I'm not sure would do any good.  I think many as well as I have quoted from the program that Jeffrey said  "it was shortly after we married I started to question her".   funny thing it was shortly "after they married" huh?  It's equally as odd that here this teenager found herself in a position where she felt she "had to do the right thing" & marry this guy because she was pregnant & here years later he's be trying to trick her into a pregnancy by faking a vasectomy "to get their sex life back on track".  LOL this poor woman was taken as a kid & tricked by a man & now is smart enough to know that the only way to not have an oppsie pregnancy is to not have sex with him at all & he's STILL trying to trick her.  I heard her some where say she just adores all of her children but that she did not want any more children and that's why she no longer would sleep with him.  She'd said that her youngest was an unplanned pregnancy.  Can you imagine?  No wonder she was freaking out thinking he was putting something in her chocolate milk. 

 

Since this show and the messages of so many questioning behaviors that are seemingly normal here my husband & I have had more than a couple of laughs.  The other day I'd gotten a email from an old girlfriend I haven't seen in many many years but who I'd been real close to in high school.  She signed her email with hugs & kisses & said "I can't wait to see my beautiful old friend".  I showed hubby the email & he laughed & asked "so this is your lesbian lover?"

I am SO grateful to God to be in a life where something full of emotion & yet innocent isn't taken completely out of context & turned into something ugly.  Treating each other that wasy is so forgien to us it's almost humorus & yet it's so tradgic that for many it's their reality? 

 

Even her going out with co-workers for drinks was taken way out of context.  She'd gone with a group from work & 1 of them happened to be a man her husband was targeting as a "lover" & yet to hear people tell it she was out "bar hopping" & her friends & it was made to sound like it was all the time.  Frankly I'm surprised she came home at all at night knowing that as she slept he'd been watching her.  I've also heard that the first "affair" she had was taken way out of context to & that she was actually seperated from Jeffrey & he had threatened her to leave & had done so.  He'd gone to another state (Florida) to look to find & set up a house & looked to be moving on.  The man he came home & found with his wife was doing nothing more than making a trip to the Zoo with Jennifer & I guess the youngest child?    I don't know where this came from though & I'd only heard another poster say this.  There's a lot more about this out on the internet though & so that info has been coming back into the boards here.  I do feel for Jennifer & Ihope she's in a REAL safe place with a LOT of people around her. 

you say you're too prouwd to go ask for help from family who lives wayout of state? 

 

Don't be ashamed honey it's not your shame to bear it's his!  If your children are grown & you can go to another state then just go.................  Perhaps another state & a new start might just be the ticket you need & want.  When you get to where you're going try checking into the community colleges to see what jobs they have to offer & at the same time what programs are in place for returning students.  There ARE private charities that are set up to help you but you need to seek them out.  You'd be surprised the things that might be available to you & how you may be able to slip right into classes & getan associates degree in no time.  At the same time you could work at the school or go through their counseling center to find employement.  If there's a particular field that you're interested in then go to that field for example if you'd been working for lawyers perhaps looking into certifying as a Legal assistant.  Then if there are apprentice jobs you could slip in that way.  The experience of returning adults is normally reguarded very well by the community colleges & you may even qualify to test to get credit for your experience!   If you're feeling unsure of what's available then do a search of the colleges where your family is located to see what they have to offer.  Check into the programs offered in a field you may be interested in.   See what Scolarships are being offered etc & check the jobs message boards.   Check into programs that are partly supported by womens programs too.  There are many looking to help their sisters.........:) 

 

Don't be ashamed of asking for help in getting on your feet, because by doing so you are essentially taking care of yourself.  You say with a degree and a good job you think you can make it & I know you can.  It's out there honey so just get up & go find take it.