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Topic : 08/14 Meddling Moms

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Created on : Friday, May 11, 2007, 02:30:22 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 05/17/07) They track your every move and monitor your conversations. This sounds like the latest GPS locator, but they’re actually meddling moms! Audrey says her mother, Mary, is rude, manipulative and trying to destroy her marriage. She says Mary calls her up to 10 times a day, telling her how to raise her kids and how to handle her husband, Matt. Matt says his mother-in-law constantly criticizes him, calling him names like “fat” and “lazy,” and saying he’s not a good provider. Audrey says the situation is so bad, she’s thinking of moving away just to find some serenity. Mary wants to butt out of Audrey’s business but says her daughter keeps putting her in the middle. Will mother and daughter ever see eye to eye? Then, Debbie says she wants her 24-year-old daughter, Amy, to get a job and get out of her house. She says Amy is a lazy slob who sleeps all day while other people care for her four children. Debbie and her husband, Dave, say they’ve spent over $70,000 on Amy in the last two years and it’s time for her to support her own family. Amy says her mom is overbearing and always on her case – telling her when to go to bed and how to raise her children. Can Dave and Debbie restore peace in their marriage and home without damaging their relationship with Amy? Tell us what you think.

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August 18, 2007, 12:39 pm CDT

I cant understand where your point of view comes

Quote From: momoftwins1

Forgive me for not having the time to count, for I have two young toddlers to take care of all by myself every day, so I don't have time to go through counting and reading all the posts, but my general impression is that most of the posts related to this topic "Meddling Moms"  have a very negative response towards Amy.  Hence I thought to breath in a new perspective  because all the negative responses I read were making me feel like they were like a pack of hungry wolves ready to eat up Amy figuratively speaking.  So I decided to "defend" Amy by expressing another perspective of seeing things, for NOTHING IN LIFE IS BLACK OR WHITE.  Two people can go through the same exact experience and yet both can have totally opposite feelings/reactions towards the same experience.   For example, two women find out they have breast cancer and have to have both breasts removed.  One develops a fight back attitude and the others one of defeat.  The woman with the fight back attitude goes on living and manages to lead an exemplary life for all other women who suffer the same physical fate as her to follow, while the one with the defeat attitude dies after a few months after both of her breasts got removed.  The difference between the woman who lives and the one who dies lies in the perspectives of seeing things - an example of an experience whereby 2 different perspectives are being viewed and lived out by two different women who undergo the same experience -  one lives and one dies.  The lived out perspective of the fight back attitude is what helps the first woman to live, while the lived out perspective of defeat is what eventually kills the second woman.  So my point is, given what we know of Amy on national television, one can choose to see Amy from the perspective of a lazy or spoiled woman, or one can choose to see Amy from the perspective similar to the one I described in my last two posts.  I am not stupid or blind mind you.  I also see Amy from your perspective if I choose to do so.  Just because I was defending Amy does not mean I am blind to Amy's faults or weaknesses.  I simply chose not to mention them because the purpose in my last two posts was to bring attention to the other perspective - my perspective - which most of the posts choose not to see, fail to see or refuse to see.

The purpose of my last two posts was simply to call on those who condemn Amy to open their hearts and to stop seeing the Amy problem in black and white colors.  If one insists on seeing Amy from the sole perspective of Amy as a lazy and spoiled person, then one is too stingy in love, a heart which pours out a love only as far as what the nose can reach, a love reserved only for those "if you love me then I will love you", "if you help me then I will help you", "I will only help you if and when it is convenient to my ego", etc... 

I am not blind to all of Amy's weaknesses or mistakes.  In fact I see MORE than the total seen and expressed in the posts I read thus far keeping in mind I dont have time to read all.  I simply choose not to focus on them, for I understand why she acts or behaves the way she is, because I have experienced enough hell on earth to now fully realize that almost nothing in life is black or white, most of the time things are grey, sometimes more black sometimes more white but rarely if ever a problem can be seen solely as pure white or pure black.

How one sees the Amy problem - which perspective a person chooses to go for determines how much light exists within one's heart.   A heart filled with selfish and ego love, that is, a love so small and tiny which can do little next to nothing in helping to bring more light and love to this world is a heart which shall keep on insisting Amy is selfish, lazy and spoiled and deserves no help from no one but only Amy herself.  My heart says "no" to such a selfish heart.  My heart says: "Amy needs help and relief".  My heart says:  "Amy is presently being burnt out emotionally, physically and mentally from the strain of birth giving in the last four years and having to take care of 4 children changing their diapers about twice the number of times I have to change (I change about 10 diapers per day for my two angels)."  My heart says:  "Amy needs a break from the normal demanding coming from her 4 young children all under age 4.  Amy needs someone trustworthy who can volunteer to come to her home and help her to take care of her four children.  Amy needs as my social worker tells me "Yasmine needs to have one day per week at least a few hours at a time where she can just go out and do whatever she loves to do without needing to care for her children because this is called taking care of Yasmine so that Yasmine can take good care of her children".  Before Amy can take good care of her children Amy has to take good care of herself.  And part of taking care of Amy is to allow Amy to have at least some time alone one day per week to do what Amy loves to do without needing to care for any of her children (somebody else to do it at this time)".   My heart says:  "Amy needs to have a proper recovery after each delivery.  In my family tradition once the woman gives birth she is not allowed to work or do anything much around the home.  She is asked to eat and drink all sorts of Chinese health food and drinks to help her body recover from delivery ASAP because the body loses a lot of vital chi after giving birth and this vital chi lost needs to be replenished properly otherwise there will be consequences health-wise.  The reason I suffered postpartum depression AMONG OTHER FACTORS NOT LISTED HERE (too much to reveal and too much to go into details) is that I was not listening to my mother when she told me to eat and drink all the Chinese health food and stuff because I did not believe anything could happen to me.  So at one point during my postpartum depression my energy level was so low that I only had just enough energy to care for my babies physically with no energy left to do anything else.  Amy as a typical American female very likely has no knowledge about vital chi lost after giving birth and I am quite sure she has not taken the proper steps to give her physical body the proper recovery it needs after each pregnancy in the last four times and it is now taken its toll on her physically, emotionally and mentally reflected in her presenting unhealthy behavior and lifestyle.  My heart says:  "Amy might need financial help because if she does not have the financial security she needs to raise her four children it would just add more depression causing a downward spiral to her present unhealthy behavior and lifestyle."  My heart says:  "If one of Amy's fundamental problems is finance causing her to act and behave in her present unhealthy way, then no solution can ever be true or sincere for Amy if the solution does not include financial help or relief for her.  Suppose one of Amy's fundamental problems is finance causing her to act in her present unhealthy way, then not even a million interventions can help Amy if not any one of these million interventions includes financial aid and relief for her.  I once read on CNN that Japan has one of the highest suicide rates amongst industrialized nations with some figure (I cannot exactly recall) like about half were unemployed.  That is, about half of the people who committed suicide in Japan were unemployed - NO MONEY.  Knowing that Amy does not have a job and how expensive it is to raise kids in America, it is 101% likely that one of the reasons for Amy's present unhealthy behavior and lifestyle is due to lack of finance.  From this perspective we all should feel LUCKY that Amy is still alive and with us here on earth given the fact about the high suicide rate of which about half were unemployed in Japan.

One may not see or understand why how it is possible that lack of finance can lead Amy to hang out late at night, sleep late and wake up late, but please keep in mind how complex the human behaviours, thinking and actions can be.  

In logic A implies B, B implies C, C implies D, D implies E, ... Y implies Z.  So lack of finance represents A in Amy's situation in the string of events causing Amy to fall into her present lifestyle.  A - lack of finance - implies-initiates a series of complex events (both tangible and intangible) within Amy until it gets to Z and Z is what people can see with their physical eyes in Amy which are staying out late, sleep late and wake up late.  These events which are Z are at the very END in the string of events which has A (represents lack of finance) as the original cause.  So A is what everyone should focus on if they want to help Amy, A is what people should see as Amy's fundamental problem if they would but have true love for her. 

Just because a person has financial problem does not excuse her to say:  I have financial problem too, but I am a good mother, so Amy should not be excused and learn to be a good mother like me, unless this mother/person insists on having a love so tiny and small which only reaches as far as her nose tip.    Remember about the example of the two woman who undergo the same experience of having both of their breasts removed to rid of the cancer and one lives while the other one dies.  So it is possible for a single mother with four children experiencing lack of finance and still manages to be a good mother, however the ones who fail or struggling,  may we have mercy and love for them and help them instead of condemn or comparing them to self or others who have managed to triumph the same or similar obstacles, because at the moment of everyones last breath on earth all that matters is how many dark matters existing within ones heart one has triumphed.  That is the one and only thing that really counts - triumph over the dark matters existing within ones heart - at the moment of ones last breath on earth.   How much one loves and how much one helps is the true triumph of life.

No one, especially the state has the right to take away a mother's child especially if the fundamental problem the mother has is lack of finance because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, especially Article 25 states:

"(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care, and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age, or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection."

All humans, especially Americans, especially when we all have to pay tax, (if not the adult child such as Amy who is not working, then Amy's mother pays her taxes therefore she should be entitled to have all rights and all her children should be entitled to the same rights because she has paid her due in taxes, not that anyone needs to pay taxes at all to be entitled to all the rights existing within Universal Declaration of Human Rights).  The fact a person is a human being automatically be qualified for all the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  So my point is, no one, not even the state has the right to take away a mother's child especially if lack of finance causes her to lead an unhealthy lifestyle.  Shall Child Protective Services ever get involved with Amy's children, they have no right to take away her children if the ground Amy stands on is lack of finance causing her to lead an unhealthy lifestyle because the Universal Declaration of Humans Rights article 25 states: "(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care, and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age, or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection."

So suppose for some reason Child Protective Services gets called because Amy uses poor judgement and violates one of the family laws,  then ethically CPS should examine thoroughly what causes Amy to use her poor judgement and if the cause is lack of finance, then CPS ethically should help Amy to fulfil her rights as declared in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights especially concerning article 25.   If a mother due to lack of finance causes her to use poor judgement and violates one of the family laws, then ethically CPS does not have a valid ground to stand on to rightfully charge the mother and take away her child.  To take away a mother's child  in such a situation in which lack of finance is the fundament root problem is called kidnaping from a human's point of view, is called reason's intrinsic form of corruption - mistaking the consequence for the cause as the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche put it in his book Twilight of the Idols.  Ethically the one who takes away a mother's child is the one held responsible to help the mother to achieve overall health and wellness in all aspects so that she can become (once again) a fit mother to take care of her children.  But as said earlier nothing is black or white.  Each situation in which CPS gets involved is different, some are too extreme and dangerous for the child to remain with the mother in the worse case scenario, but in the case where CPS gets involved and if lack of finance is the fundamental problem of the mother, then CPS has no right to take away her child, because to do so shall remind me one of those human cruelty cases where Amnesty International needs to step in to help in order to relieve suffering of the victims.  Taking away a mother's child especially in the case when the mother due to lack of finance cannot properly care for her children is like chopping off half of her emotional heart, chopping off one of her emotional arms and one of her emotional legs.  The consequence of such a poor and unfortunate soul which I wish to never be fallen upon me or anyone else shall be like a person who may have to walk around in life with some emotional body parts missing, carrying these emotional wounds with her until the day she dies - the emotional wound of having lost her child to the state due to the fundamental problem being lack of finance.


My point is, I believe Amy is a good mother.  She just needs help and relief to properly care for her four children.  No one should ever take away her children or even wish for this to happen, but only help according to the Universal Declaration of Humans Rights article 25:

"(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care, and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age, or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection."

Superficially watching Amy on national television and based on what we see and hear from herself and her mother, one might think that Amys Universal Declaration of Humans Rights as declared in Article 25 are being met, but SUPERFICIALLY only.  If you want to find out the truth, get to know Amy. Talk to her.  Ask her questions and you just might understand how lack of finance among other events taken place in her life such as the divorce is creating a screw ball out of her as a mother.  But all in all I give Amy the good credit she deserves for still being alive hence choosing life as compared to those poor souls in Japan who committed suicide because they had no job hence no money.
 

Okay sorry I couldn't read all that. But I read most of it. I don't think you're blind of Amys problems. What angers me about Amy is she isn't a rare case, and she isn't a bad person. At the moment of the taping of the show she is a unfit mother, doesn't mean she cant change. Lucky she does have her mother there helping her taking some of the stress of no home, no money. I have a sister that is somewhat like Amy, and its taken my mother 7 years of working with her and she has come far, not as far as I would of enjoyed seeing. I sit there and I don't understand why its this hard. My sister even made a comment to my mom, that now "she (meaning me) will know how hard it is to raise kids" after she had heard I was pregnant. Its not easy at all and I never assumed it was. But its not so hard that I cant do it. I do plan on having another child in 2-3 years if me and my husband are where we should be.

 

What also makes me sad/mad with Amy is how she treats her mother. Her mother is bending backwards for her, telling her husband please its my daughter and our grandchildren we have to help them. And Amy just thinks nothing of it. I hope Amy changes cause she can she isn't damaged or a horrible person.

 
August 20, 2007, 8:59 am CDT

meddling moms

Omg, that mother needs to butt out!!!  She has some nerve.  that is not her husband or children.  She's been married 5 times and she wants to tell her daughter how to handle her marriage.  If I was her daughter I would move so far away from her and would not let her know where or even my phone number because her mother will never change.  If she hopes to have any peace she needs to move.
 
August 22, 2007, 5:33 am CDT

I SECOND THAT!

Quote From: mustbecrazy

I whole-heartedly agree!!

Amy said she is poster child for the reason your method of birth control doesn't work.  Now, after two kids wouldn't a mature, reasonable person try something different. 

 

I would love to see the follow up on this story!  As for the mother, life is too short to enable a spoiled, ungrateful brat.  I hope her husband sticks to his guns on kicking the daughter out and if not, maybe evaluate his marriage.

 

On a side note, my husband and I had the pleasure of attending a taping of the Dr. Phil Show.  We braved the LA traffic, were in a fender bender on the way, but it was so worth it!  His staff is great!

 
August 22, 2007, 6:10 am CDT

another thought

Quote From: kelligh

Amy said she is poster child for the reason your method of birth control doesn't work.  Now, after two kids wouldn't a mature, reasonable person try something different. 

 

I would love to see the follow up on this story!  As for the mother, life is too short to enable a spoiled, ungrateful brat.  I hope her husband sticks to his guns on kicking the daughter out and if not, maybe evaluate his marriage.

 

On a side note, my husband and I had the pleasure of attending a taping of the Dr. Phil Show.  We braved the LA traffic, were in a fender bender on the way, but it was so worth it!  His staff is great!

I found some of the other posts interesting and concede I may have been too judgemental.  Maybe Amy does have a personality disorder.  She definately can't admit anything is wrong with her (i.e., blaming her mom) so I wonder if she will consent to the generous help that Dr. Phil offered.  If she doesn't, what will happen to those kids?  Thats where CPS can step in until such time she can be a good mother again; which means, among other things, getting up and taking care of them in the morning.
 
August 22, 2007, 5:20 pm CDT

I agree

Quote From: kelligh

I found some of the other posts interesting and concede I may have been too judgemental.  Maybe Amy does have a personality disorder.  She definately can't admit anything is wrong with her (i.e., blaming her mom) so I wonder if she will consent to the generous help that Dr. Phil offered.  If she doesn't, what will happen to those kids?  Thats where CPS can step in until such time she can be a good mother again; which means, among other things, getting up and taking care of them in the morning.

Well maybe I too was a little judgemental, but this issue does push my buttons. One thin that is nice about DR PHIL show is that I think we all know that he will not give up on Amy now that he is in her life. His show is the only one wroth going on airing your business so you can acutally get help with your problems, ie the mother that was so angry and voilent she yelled and kicked her kids, now she is better with her anger her children are happier. Lets hope he can do the same with Amy.

 
August 30, 2007, 11:33 pm CDT

about Amy

I admit that I really disliked the way that Amy treats her children and I did NOT agree with any of it. I do think that she has just come out of a controlling and abusive marriage and along with that comes depression and maybe a little acting out. When you have been controlled 24/7 its tough to break out of that. She most likely felt a bit of freedom and went a little wild. I think that she needs some serious therapy and help. Her mother was just making the situation WORSE by making excuses for her and allowing her to behave that way.  I am sure that with some individual therapy and some family therapy this situation will get much better.

 

 

 
September 21, 2007, 11:25 am CDT

08/14 Meddling Moms

Quote From: naturesgir

Stop pushing state assistance; pop out a baby and you never have to work again; the state will support you???  Yeah, we need to run commercials to make sure everyone knows about this!

 

Amy sleeps till 2 pm because she's partying and bar-hopping till 4 am; that's not "depression."

I am not pushing state assistance however I replied to someone who said that she has no help!  She does have avenues she can pursue that is what my point was.  YOu obivously didn't read the quote I was replying to.  I do believe if someone needs help to get onto their feet our government should help.  Why not, we shell out billions of dollars in other countries, but I also think these people should have to prove they are trying to better themselves(ie a job or school)
 
March 23, 2008, 12:59 pm CDT

borderline personality disorder

 
March 23, 2008, 12:59 pm CDT

BPD

 
October 3, 2008, 7:30 pm CDT

08/14 Meddling Moms

Quote From: divajomama

Hi Everyone,

I first viewed some posts from the original airing of this show where some astute viewers saw Borderline Personality Disorder in the mother in the first case; and in the daughter in the second.  I agree.

 

BPD is primarily a women's personality disorder, it is common, and it destroys families.  Closely connected to this is parental alienation, which women who suffer from BPD will inevitably promote when they divorce.  Oddly, when they insist on a divorce, they then turn and punish the exiting spouse for doing just what they demanded by alienating the children from (usually) him.

 

I live in Minneapolis, and the U of M Department of Psychiatry's Chair, Dr. S. Charles Schulz, is specializing in research on BPD.  He is partnering with other groundbreaking professionals in the field such as Dr. Marsha LInehan, who has developed the most effective and widely used treatment program for BPD (called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) and they are urgently promoting awareness and recognition for this serious disorder.

 

I strongly support and encourage awareness and research of both Borderline Personality Disorder and Parental Alienation Awareness.  Research:  www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com (the site for the National Education Alliance on Borderline Personality Disorder); and www.parental-alienation-awareness.com (the site for a Canada-based support group for families living with alienation.

Best to all,

JoAnn

Jo Ann,

People who suffer from BPD have to endure enough stagma as it is without having misinformation such as this spread around.  Your statement that "women who suffer from BPD will inevitably promote (parental alienation) when they divorce, it 100% bunk!  

 

BPD has NOTHING to do with parental alienation syndrome.  I have been in ongoing therapy-recovery from BPD with the same psychiatrist for the past 15 YEARS, so I am a bit of expert on the topic of BPD.  Unfortunately, one of things we have to endure is people blaming us for all their problems and labeling us a "difficult" people who purposely want to "destroy families."  

 

Unfortunately, most people believe the "Hollywood" hype seen in the movie, "Fatal Attraction" and type cast all people with BPD as "bunny boiling" obessed maniacs. 

 

The REALITY of BPD is MUCH different.  

Most people do not even know that I have BPD.

I am your sister, your mother, your friend, your neighbor.

I'm the one who sits beside you in Sunday School class and

talks to you at the grocery store check out stand. 

 

For the most part we suffer in silence - trapped in bodies tormented with emotional dyregulation.

The emotional pain we feel goes far beyond what any "normal" person experiences on their worst day on Earth.   

 

So, when you talk about us as if our goal in life is to "destroy families" or "alienate parents" - it strikes me that you have absolutely no clue as to the reality of BPD.  

My goal - and the goal of most people I've met with BPD - is to get OUT of our pain.  So, if in the process you get your feelings hurt or your are inconvenienced, you can at least take solice in the fact that whatever you "suffer" - it is NOTHING compared to what we have to endure just to live on this Earth on a daily basis.

 

I've read a lot about Dr. Marsha Linehan's work and, in my humble opinion, she is a SAINT for what she has done and is doing for those of us who suffer from this complex, and debiltating mental illness. 

Unfortunately I live area of country where where DBT is not offered.  This life-saving therapy is mainly available to people who live is large urban areas.   

 

Unfortuantely, my psychiatrist/ therapist who has treated me for the past 15 years, suddenly and abruptly TERMINATED my care 2 weeks ago.  He said, and I quote, "if this patient has not worked through issues of object constancy in fifteen years, the chances of it every happening are dim." 

 

So, I was "terminated" as he calls it because I have failed to obtain something called "object constancy." 

I literally BEGGED, tearfully BEGGED this man not to give up on me. 

But, he was un-relenting.

 

So, as I sit here today, writing out this message, I have no hope of recovery from this mental illness. 

At first, when my doctor told me he was terminating me, I thought he was telling me that I was cured.  So I asked, "Am I well now?" 

He said, "No, I do NOT believe you are well." 

Although I was in a state of shock I managed to ask if he was transferring my care to another therapist.  He said, "No, I haven't transferred your care to another therapist in the area because I don't know any therapists that would not reject you due to your Borderline pathology - something that most therapists are loathe to treat."

 

So, we are like the Leapers of society.  I don't know of any other illness where the treatment professionals reject a patient due to their illness.  It is like being told you have Cancer, and by the way, don't bother going to any Oncologists because they can't stand to be around you people with Cancer. 

 

So, here I am with no where to turn.  I don't even dare to write to Dr. Phil because I know my little message here has about a .00001% chance of being noticed or read by someone like Dr. Phil.   I watch his show every day and I'm happy for all the people he helps.  I wish there was something in his "little black bag" for me.  Dr. Phil and Marsha Linehan are my heros. 

Although my prognosis is "dim," I will still praise God with every breath I have and pray that He showers HIs Blessings upon Dr. Phil and Dr. Linehan and their families and friends.

 

MsTCB18 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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