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Topic : Addiction Support

Number of Replies: 1935
New Messages This Week: 0
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Created on : Thursday, July 07, 2005, 08:56:39 am
Author : dataimport

Are you or someone else you love addicted to something unhealthy? Whether it's food, alcohol, drugs, painkillers, sex, pornography, or something else, find support here.

 

If you believe you need immediate assistance, please call your local emergency number or crisis hotline listed in your local phone book's government pages. You can also find more help on our General and Mental Health Resources page.


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August 3, 2005, 4:43 pm CDT

Hard to believe but true....

Quote From: the_indian

Hi!  I'm sorry you all are going through this.

 

I don't know anything about the laws in Canada.  Just for grins, I plugged "Canada" and drug treatment options into google and I got over 3 million links!  Are you sure your sister has thoroughly researched the possibilities?  I'm sure this isn't the case, but it almost sounds like she's waiting for Dr. Phil to step in and help, which isn't much of a plan.

 

Here in the US, if I was in your sister's situation, I would try another mental health professional asap.  The purpose of this wouldn't be to talk him into rehab - it would be to asses his mental status to see if he's even capable of making decisions for himself.   If the first shrink he saw failed to grasp the situation, I'd simply find a new one.  If it appears that he's not mentally competent, there are legal steps (again, I'm talking in the US) that a relative can take on that person's behalf to position themselves so that they can get him properly evaluated on an inpatient basis. 

 

If, on the other hand, he's a legal adult who is oriented and alert, but simply refuses to give up drugs and refuses to go to rehab, unfortunately there's very little that can be done.  That is also true in the US since, as you say, rehab facilities allow patients to come and go as they please. 

 

Other than that, I don't know what to say, but I find it hard to believe, if he's really that messed up, that your sister doesn't have options and legal protections she can tap into.  Has she thought of consulting an attorney?  At this point, from what you've said, his mental competence sounds like a more urgent issue than anything else. 

I understand you must find it hard to believe, so do I!  And my sister isn't waiting for Dr. Phil to get involved but, to me, this could be her last resort.  She has sought legal advice and the only thing she was able to legally obtain was a paper to have him assessed IF and WHEN he is a danger to himself and she did use this legal paper just over a week ago.  However, the two physcologists who assessed him couldn't do anything, they couldn't keep him because he was somewhat "alert" being he knew his name, where he was, etc.  The laws are different there even compared to the province I live in which is just 4 hours away from her...  See here where I live if 2 people hear someone say they will kill themself and do harm to themself, then you can have them admitted and treated but, it's different over there, you just can't do that.  If there is a time where one can say that the law has let someone down, this is it!  I've seen it now since he's been 12 years of age and it really upsets me!  And yes, this is an urgent issue as my nephew can't continue on like this for very long without something happening to him.  He's also gone to rehab twice I believe in the past of his own will of course but, he went back to the same friends, same enviroment and now things are worse than ever.  Anyhow, just thought someone may have advice of some sort...I've been trying to come up with something on my own but without success. 
 
August 3, 2005, 5:42 pm CDT

Finally Getting the Message

Quote From: hines14

Thank you for such a great post.  My husband has been alcoholic for over 20 years.  8 Aug 05 he gets released from prison for DUI.  I too have felt like there should be something more that I could do or say.  By the grace of God I now know that I can't do anything that my husband doesn't want to do himself.  I won't say it will be easy but I have already stated my boundaries clearly to him and WILL NOT negotiate with him.  I don't mean it to say it's my way or the highway but in a nutshell that's pretty much what it is.  I can't live like this anymore, waiting on the other shoe to drop.  More importantly I can't raise our son in this environment anymore.  I am worthy of dignity and respect and I am no longer the enabler I was when we married.  Time will tell if he will stay sober :)

I appreciated you message "Indian" and wish I had gotten it several years ago.  You can't change a disease with love or books.  The person who is ill has to change himself.   I have been married before and this relationship was so different and loving and wonderful in the beginning that I would have done anything to save it.  I feel guilt now that I probably was bad for my fiance rather than a help to him.  I knew many times that what I was doing was only enabling him, but I loved him so much and he seemed so contrite and felt so bad that I went ahead and didn't go with my instincts. 

My fiance and I will be officially living apart at the end of August.  He will be moving to a small place that he was able to get with borrowed money from his mother and sister.  He has no television, no plates, no bed, no furniture, no pots and pans, etc.  You name it, he doesn't have it.  What he does have is his 12 year old son.  Out of the blue, after not being able to see him for four years (and going to Court to do so) his son has come to live with him.  My fiance's ex-wife is mentally ill and is basically abandoning him at this point.  Neither my fiance or I can figure out what is going on and why she is behaving the way she is suddenly, but she is under the care of a doctor.

My fiance is still getting drunk.  So even though our relationship is ending because of it, and he is losing a beautiful home, and he hasn't the funds to pay his bills, and he has no household goods for a home, and his 12 year old son is FINALLY back in his life, he continues to drink!  These examples finally show me that he is so very, very sick with his alcoholism that nothing will make him stop.  And all those years I thought my "love" could turn the trick.  How foolish was I?

I've been advised by my therapist and a person I truly respect from AA that I have to tell someone that he is drinking around his son.  It is unbelievable to me that he does so, but I think he drove him somewhere last night while I was working.  I came home to find him very drunk in front of the boy and they had been to the store.  I don't know who to tell or what to do.  Any suggestions?   My fiance can be very frightening when he is angry and I can only imagine the amount of rage he'd have towards me if I said anything.  I know he loves his son and knows his mother is bad for him.  But Dad is getting drunk and driving drunk (2 DUI's) and can't take care of himself let alone a child.  Any help to offer?

 
August 4, 2005, 7:12 am CDT

Some times you have to let go with love!

Quote From: lauralp3

My nephew is an addict...he's in his early 20's and has been on drugs since he was about 12 years old!  I have e-mailed the Dr. Phil show but, I'm afraid it may be too late by the time I get any response!  My sister is just totally heartbroken over this!   She has tried everything you can imagine to help him!  But, the laws in one of the provinces of Canada where she lives is totally NOT helping in any way!  Child protective agengies have been to her home when he was younger and had the nerve to tell her to "chill out, it's just pot"!  Nothing would be done about his drug addiction.  Later on, she's had to call police to her house for his violence, then again an ambulance because he was overdosing, and recently she went to get a legal paper from the lawyer to have him admitted to the hospital as he is a threat to himself after he said he was going to kill himself!  That didn't help since the doctors assessed him, and since after 24 hours he knew his name, they had to let him go!  Within minutes the police picked him up as they found him crying and confused in front of the hospital!  He was brought back and then released again!  See, in this province you can not in any way force a person to get treatment!  It's crazy!  Since his last overdose, he is not himself...he's confused, says things out of the blue that has nothing to do with what's going on at the moment, it's like he's on drugs without taking them!  My sister is afraid he has permenantly damaged his brain and this is something she can't accept!  This is her son!  Everyone, police, doctors and all say "it will take a miracle for him to get clean" and that there are not many options for him...1-he'll kill himself, 2-he'll overdose and die or 3-a miracle happens and he gets clean!  It's horrible!  I wish I could contact Dr. Phil as right now there is nothing left for my sister to do for her son, and all she can do is see him get worse and die!  It's not right!  Where can we get help for him when even the law is against you to help him?  What is left?  Where can my sister turn to for help?  She's getting very depressed herself and can't handle much more!  I talk to her every night, I listen and try to give her some kind of advice or somethinng positive but I just don't know what to say anymore, I don't know what to do to help either!  Is there a way to contact Dr. Phil by phone?  I feel that if something isn't done NOW, it won't be long and we will be seeing my nephew in a casket!  Please help, in any way, even advice, anything....

 

Laura

I read through your post several times before I answered. It always hurt when a relative is self destructing right before your eyes. I know the feeling well. I watched it happen with by brother who is currently drinking himself to death, My 1st husband who did every substance he could get his hands and my current husband who drinking is reaching out of control proportions. I, myself am a recovering alcoholic and addict and I know I put the people I love through hell over the past 30 years. One thing I have learned in recovery ( well I've actually learned a lot!) is that not matter how much you love them you cannot force an addict to get sober. Alcoholics and Addicts do what they do which is to drink and get high or low. When we are in our disease we are very self-centered people. We are also stubborn as a Mississippi mule and nobody is going to make us do anything we don't want to do.For me it took hitting bottom and a suicide attempt to I believe Canada has laws governing patient's rights just like we do here in the states. I work in the mental health field and while we can hold people against their will for a short period of time it is extremely difficult to commit someone who is an addict to long term mental health treatment. These laws recognize that you can't force sobriety on anyone. Plus the institutions and hospitals are packed with people who are gravely disabled due to mental illness. I know how very much you are hurting and I will keep you, your sister and nephew in my prayers. Please don't feel that this is in anyway your fault. Your nephew has made his choices and he won't get sober unless he wants to. Why would the government waste a bed on someone who doesn't want recovery when their are so many who really want to get well. It's mainly a dollars and cents issue and it's not fair but that is unfortunately the way it is. Don't lose hope but you must be able to live life and find serenity within the storm yo need to accept that which cannot change,change what you can and have the courage to know the difference.

 

Peace and God Bless

Mischif

 
August 4, 2005, 10:54 am CDT

Hines

Quote From: hines14

Thank you for such a great post.  My husband has been alcoholic for over 20 years.  8 Aug 05 he gets released from prison for DUI.  I too have felt like there should be something more that I could do or say.  By the grace of God I now know that I can't do anything that my husband doesn't want to do himself.  I won't say it will be easy but I have already stated my boundaries clearly to him and WILL NOT negotiate with him.  I don't mean it to say it's my way or the highway but in a nutshell that's pretty much what it is.  I can't live like this anymore, waiting on the other shoe to drop.  More importantly I can't raise our son in this environment anymore.  I am worthy of dignity and respect and I am no longer the enabler I was when we married.  Time will tell if he will stay sober :)

Your post was great, too, and it really sounds like you're on the right track. 

 

The only thing I can think of to add (I always have to have something, of course :) is that many people in his situation confuse being dry with being sober.  I don't know how long he was incarcerated, but he may very well come out of there feeling like he's "cured" merely because he's been abstinent.

 

You obviously know that it isn't your job to worry about this, nor is it your job to make sure he's in some sort of support or recovery group.   Don't let yourself get caught up in being his hall monitor or making sure he's doing what he needs to do to stay sober -- you'll drive yourself (and him) nuts!  Hopefully, your boundaries are simple and relate to consequences of any drinking -- it's on him to do the legwork and figure out how to get and stay sober. 

 

I'm not saying this because you need to hear it.  In fact, you probably don't.  But if there's one thing that I've seen that trips folks up when they're in your situation, it's this.  The "dry" alcoholic continues his manipulative patterns and the poor spouse gets caught up without realizing it.  It's all about staying focused.

 

Anyway, best of luck with all this.  It sounds like you've made an awesome start!  And please keep us posted on your progess --- I have a feeling you'll do very well! 

 

 

 

 

 
August 4, 2005, 11:03 am CDT

Hello again

Quote From: lauralp3

I understand you must find it hard to believe, so do I!  And my sister isn't waiting for Dr. Phil to get involved but, to me, this could be her last resort.  She has sought legal advice and the only thing she was able to legally obtain was a paper to have him assessed IF and WHEN he is a danger to himself and she did use this legal paper just over a week ago.  However, the two physcologists who assessed him couldn't do anything, they couldn't keep him because he was somewhat "alert" being he knew his name, where he was, etc.  The laws are different there even compared to the province I live in which is just 4 hours away from her...  See here where I live if 2 people hear someone say they will kill themself and do harm to themself, then you can have them admitted and treated but, it's different over there, you just can't do that.  If there is a time where one can say that the law has let someone down, this is it!  I've seen it now since he's been 12 years of age and it really upsets me!  And yes, this is an urgent issue as my nephew can't continue on like this for very long without something happening to him.  He's also gone to rehab twice I believe in the past of his own will of course but, he went back to the same friends, same enviroment and now things are worse than ever.  Anyhow, just thought someone may have advice of some sort...I've been trying to come up with something on my own but without success. 

I think I'm going backwards at the moment -- I keep going up when I'm supposed to go down or something.  :)

 

Wow, this really is a mess.  I only have a couple further ideas, but they're kind of stupid. 

 

First, have you (or your sister) tried googling for Canadian (your province) message boards on this?  Now that I think about it, you guys can't be the only people in this type of situation.   Message boards can be really good sources of info if one takes the time to find good ones. 

 

Secondly, I agree that using "alertness" as a measuring stick for potential to do harm to yourself is simply nonsense.  You mentioned that the standards are different in your own province.  If your sister is really serious about going to all lengths, could she move herself and her son near you, establish residency, and then take advantage of those laws?  It sounds extreme, but then again, the situation itself sounds kind of extreme. 

 
August 4, 2005, 6:30 pm CDT

Hi again:)

Quote From: the_indian

I think I'm going backwards at the moment -- I keep going up when I'm supposed to go down or something.  :)

 

Wow, this really is a mess.  I only have a couple further ideas, but they're kind of stupid. 

 

First, have you (or your sister) tried googling for Canadian (your province) message boards on this?  Now that I think about it, you guys can't be the only people in this type of situation.   Message boards can be really good sources of info if one takes the time to find good ones. 

 

Secondly, I agree that using "alertness" as a measuring stick for potential to do harm to yourself is simply nonsense.  You mentioned that the standards are different in your own province.  If your sister is really serious about going to all lengths, could she move herself and her son near you, establish residency, and then take advantage of those laws?  It sounds extreme, but then again, the situation itself sounds kind of extreme. 

First, I'd like to say thank you for your ideas!  I greatly appreciate it!  Well, my sister has looked into everything for her province (Quebec) and according to doctors, police, attornys, detox and all, there is nothing she can do...he, my nephew has to "want" the help.  It's crazy because he isn't thinking, the drugs are!  As for her moving here, well, he wouldn't go for that and he isn't living with her all the time since he is in his 20's now.  He just recently moved in with a girl who has a young 3 month old and who just last month attempted suicide herself!  My nephew goes back to the house only once in awhile, when he's in trouble, needs food, etc.  So, moving here isn't an option really since he wouldn't come.  And you are right, this situation is as extreme as I can imagine!  I just hope I never have to go through this with my own children!  Again, thank you for all your advice and just for taking time to write back!:) 

 
August 5, 2005, 8:56 am CDT

Hey if you're still here...

Quote From: lauralp3

First, I'd like to say thank you for your ideas!  I greatly appreciate it!  Well, my sister has looked into everything for her province (Quebec) and according to doctors, police, attornys, detox and all, there is nothing she can do...he, my nephew has to "want" the help.  It's crazy because he isn't thinking, the drugs are!  As for her moving here, well, he wouldn't go for that and he isn't living with her all the time since he is in his 20's now.  He just recently moved in with a girl who has a young 3 month old and who just last month attempted suicide herself!  My nephew goes back to the house only once in awhile, when he's in trouble, needs food, etc.  So, moving here isn't an option really since he wouldn't come.  And you are right, this situation is as extreme as I can imagine!  I just hope I never have to go through this with my own children!  Again, thank you for all your advice and just for taking time to write back!:) 

Oh, you're very welcome, but I just realized something!  With all the things you mention that your sister has tried, there's nothing in there about AA or Alanon.  I know AA is active in Quebec, and this is something your sister needs to get plugged into. 

  

I say this because of your statement that your nephew only goes home when he's in trouble or needs food.   Your sister needs to understand why it's very destructive for her to give him shelter or food while he's using drugs.  This is classic "enabling" and it's actually harmful to the addict in the long run.  AA (or Alanon) will help her understand why she needs to try the "tough love" approach and what steps she needs to take. 

  

It's always trickier when there are questions relating to someone's competence, but if he's got enough sense to show up at Mom's house when he needs something, he's obviously capable of thinking things through.     

  

So if your sister hasn't gotten involved with one of these groups, she really needs to do so.     

 
August 5, 2005, 10:42 pm CDT

I was lost, and now am found

Quote From: kinsong

hi, I am feeling so lost.  My brother was aressted six months ago because of drug use.  I felt like I should try to support him because if he knew someone cared he would want to get better.  Unfortunatly, after six months of being clean and just two weeks before his sentence date he was able to get drugs in the jail and he used them.  I felt so down.  My mother made excuses for him that he had a terrible child hood and didn't get along with our dad.  I lived through the same expereince and I have worked hard to better myself I told her he is 28 and he needs to take resbonsibility for himself that did not go over so well.  My mother didn't go and visit him while he was in jail because she said it was too much for her.  She has a drinking problem herself and is always depressed.  My father went every week despite it being a two hour drive and then he could only visit for an half an hour.  Our famliy dealt with this same problem as I grew up.  My father was arrested for drug use when I was 8 and spent a year in prison.  He continued to have problems after he was out but recently he has taken control of his live and is doing better.  I feel lost because I do not know if I should continue to support my brother I still love him but should I go visit him?  I was suppose to go to his sentencing but I decided not to.  What could I say now, he needs help but drugs are the most imoprtant thing to him.  I am unsure how to handle this I am afraid I may make things worse than I already have.   

I am a recovering alcoholic/addict who is also a substance abuse counselor for adults on probation and parole.  I can offer my experience strenght and hope to you by sharing a few things I have learned (the hard way).  First, for your mother.  The best thing I can ever, ever, do for my children is to give them a sane, sober, emotionally healthy mother.  When mother collapses............children loose hope too.  She needs to get help now!  I turned to alcohol as a solution to problems with a child that were beyond my control and believe me.  I made it much worse.  Al-anon is a wonderful resource for her and will also help her understand the steps it will take for her son to recover.  By working them and putting them to use in her own life, she will see, and pass on the miracle of them to her son.  She will also understand the battle he is going to face to change his life.  Our problem is not drinking or using, that is our solution.  Our problem is our thinking, actions, and perceptions.  If she is full of faith in his recovery, it may help him have faith too.  If she is hopeless for him, he will feel hopeless as well.   

    Jail time is sometimes a very good thing believe it or not.  It gives us some time to clear our head and look at ourselves, hopefully.  The problem will be getting out.  My advise to you is to write to your brother, be honest with him about how you feel.  That you love him and will support any recovery efforts he might make but that you love him to much to enable his self distruction.  Explain that you have no wish to force your will on him and that you will respect what ever decision he makes for his life but you will not participate in them, if they are destructive instead of constructive.  Send him a soft cover AA Big Book, NA book, and some daily meditation materials if you can.   

    Be positive and do not ever think that God can't do miracles, because I am one and there are thousands and thousands of God's miracles all over the world.  Pray for your brother, prayer is extremely powerful and is often the very best thing, (not the last resort) that we can do for someone.  It will absolutely take a miracle for your brother to recover but don't you think for one moment that it can't happen.  If you want proof, go to some open meetings of AA or NA and start hearing some of our stories.  You will not believe it is even possible that we could be as bad as we have been and our lives can be turned around 180 degrees by a higher power that absolutely loves alcoholics and addicts.   

  I hope this has been helpful to you and your family, never give up hope, your hope may be what gives him the strength and courage to have hope too.  Don't enable him, offer him your love and support if he choosing recovery, and your love (from a distance) even if he doesn't. 

 
August 10, 2005, 5:43 am CDT

Where is everyone?

This used to be such an active board. I wonder where veryone went? I talked to my dad last night.He's seems in good spirits in spite of the cancer, Says he doesn't even feel sick! I'm coming up on 11 months sober and am really happy about that. I know that there is no guarantee about tomorrow but if anyone had told me that I could stay sober for a year I'd have told him/her they were out of their mind. It's funny through surrender, prayer my friends at AA and a totaly awsome Higher Power the obsession and craving to drink has been lifted and I am happy (most of the time) joyous and free. 

  

One happy grateful alcoholic in recovery 

  

Mischif 

 
August 10, 2005, 11:32 am CDT

i don't know

i am  not sure if this belongs here but oh well i am addicted to a drug but it isn't a hard core drug like crack, meth, or even pot.  actually it ain't considered a drug.  my drug is cutting.  i no longer cut to feel better. now i cut because i am addicted to it.  i was wondering if anyone else was and if you got over it. 

Jessi 

 
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