Topic : 07/09 "You Owe Me an Apology!"

I respectfully agree that you are correct  about the stats regarding unwed births, high rates of hiv/aids, high incarcerations rates per capita among blacks;  my response had nothing to do with racism at all, but the issue of inter-racial relationships.  Unfortunately the discussion brings some generalities to the table, depending upon which side you are on.  And I reacted the way I did because of what I see.  If you truly believe that weak comes in all races, genders, political groups, etc.  you only quoted the stats for black women/men.   

Living in a black woman's body and associating with the many black women in my circle, this guy still would have been toast!!  He sought out a weak person, and yes they do exist in all races, genders, and political parties; in this instance, this is what was presented on the show, even though race was not the core issue.   I think if you look deeper at the core issues you will see that self hatred exists on both sides.  Of course in a 30 minute segment, you cannot get to all of the issues, but I suspect and in my opinion there is more to the story. 

 In your experience as a teacher and a parole officer/worker, and those you have come into contact were in some unfortunate circumstances.  My circle of strong black friends are  strong self respecting women who don't need a man as a paycheck, but would be an equal partner.  I think those black men who complain about a black woman being dominating have some issues about dealing with a strong woman and perhaps that woman know what she will and will not tolerate, a weak man cannot tolerate a strong woman and should step on. 

Some of the black men I know who exclusively date white women, are looking to dominate the relationship, as Vance so aptly demonstrated, and cannot handle an independent woman.  Trust me I have no problem with interracial dating/marriages, I think love should be color blind.  I do think that there is a group of black men who do exclusively date white women because they say they are weak and can get away with more.

I think perhaps what is often portrayed in the media about the negatives in the lives of black women/people is not balanced with the many success.  Your friend who is now deceased who expressed envy about white marriages as partnerships also generalized about white relationships.  Dr. Phil's show is an equal opportunity show and he has  just as many dysfunctional relationships in all races.  This is a good discussion, let's keep it going to learn and broaden our viewpoints. 

How dare you treat your wife the way you do.  Let me tell you something Vance (I'm sure hundreds of thousands of women will agree), if you did that to most women, your ass would have been gone long ago.

You said it yourself you marry for good or bad so what makes you think that cheating is acceptable???  That is in Dr. Phil's words a "deal breaker".  I don't care how much sex or physical affection you DON"T get, you NEVER ever cheat on your wife, PERIOD!!! If you are a true Christian you would know that.  Let me tell you, if my husband ever cheated on me his bags are packed and out the door before he even blinks.

You may have been raised to think that being put down makes you stronger, Are you kidding??? Yeah, and im sure when you got called all those names when you were a teenager you became so strong from that.... YEAH RIGHT!!!  You wouldn't have to put everyone else down if that were true. I think you think it makes you look better but I've got news for you, it just makes you look like the insecure, egotistical, small minded jerk you are.  GROW UP and act like an adult!!!

I really wish Dr. Phil would do some type of show called personality disorders 101, because it takes having someone say this is how the characteristics of  pathological narcissism play out in real life,  to help people see just what being mentally ill is. There was absolutely no point in trying to convince, Vance, that he needed help. People who are as sick as he is usually never get better (because they think they are fine) and will only apologize if they want something. I hope Christie gets though it okay, being in a relationship with a person like that can make finding up almost impossible, not to mention dealing with the unimaginable depression and anger over the horrible way the person who you wanted to love you as much as you loved them, treated you.  It helped me (well after I imagined him/them dying over and over), to realize that my grief and anger (and well feelings) are what make me a good caring human being regardless of how painful. The person who treated me that badly is suffering so much that they can’t allow themselves to have any feelings of their own so all of their hurt/anger/guilt is projected onto others because really inside they are empty and they want to make everybody else feel the same way they do. They are truely lost. When I think of it that way, the only thing left to feel towards them is pity-

Vance showed no remorse and no feelings towards you for his horrible behaviors towards you our his children.  In fact, he is one cocky, self-rightous, disgusting Idiot!  Though Dr. Phil offered counseling to you both -- [ it was clear that Vance didn't "get it "-- nor wanted to "get it." ]  I know you got it. 

You need to make a major "life-change" -- and that doesn't include Vance.  Use the couseling to prepare yourself and your children for a Divorce.  You and your children deserve a decent life without absues of any kind.   Living with adbuse daily -- is not an option.  It scares, destroys and forever changes who we are and what we can become.  The Abuser -- uses these tactics to raise his own selfworth.  In sum,  Vance is AAA  Abusive Bully, whose belief-system is from the streets,  He's uneducated, lacks compassion, and is total "smart-mouth-ass."  Dr. Phil picked up on his crassness.  Cut your losses.  You'rd educated -- find a way to build a new life for yourself and your children.  You'll all be better off -- in the long run.  I hold no false hope out that Vance will ever change.  His types -- don't.  I know you're smart enough to "Get the big picture here".  And don't blame yourself for this failed marriage.  You didn't break it.

Is that guy for real ?  Unfortunatly there are way too many like him ( it transends races, religions, etc.  they are in every part of society ), so yeah he is.

Can he change ? Yes he can if he CHOOSES to, but he dosen't seem to anxious to, I honestly think he BELIVES he's doing nothing wrong, and he's right, those poor kids.

The one piece of advice I've given friends after helping them get out of an abusive situation, is to get counselling BEFORE getting involved in another relationship, find out what is keeping you with this type of man, it seems for many (NOT ALL) of these women, history keeps repeating itself, and many times with tradgic consequences, so please if you've managed to escape your abuser, GET HELP BEFORE hooking up with another man, learn from your history, and strive not to repeat it, and for others, LISTEN to your inner voice and the red flags, if something dosen't seem right, then it probably isn't, LOVE WILL NOT CONQUER ALL, nice, romantic thought, but it won't, do it while you are dating, not when you're engaged and for heaven's sake DON'T MARRY HIM, or have children with him.

To those who have managed to escape, I salute you to get out and raise your children and to help your children overcome, is a great thing, its a gift to them, to those still struggling, it's not as easy as some would have you think, "Just leave" dosen't cut it, its hard to get away when you have been isolated from friends and family and any other type of support you might be able to get, don't give up, when you are ready, you will do it.  An abused woman is NOT there because "she likes it " or "Uneducated" or "Stupid", she is kept isolated and fearful, many women in the shelters are scared of their own shadows, but they can show incredible strength when they get the proper counsel.  To those who say "Just get out " I wonder, could you ?  Be honest with yourself, that's why, though NOT ROMANTIC, one has to think with their heads, not their hearts during the dating phase.

You know it bothers me, we come to the defense of women in the third world who live with daily uneducated living in poverty ( THEY deserve our help and compassion as well ), however we CANNOT seem to want to acknowledge, or give our help and compassion to the women of the West who suffer the same thing, why is that ?  If we are so much more enlightned, and civilized here in the West, why are there no meaningful laws in place to protect women and children from abuse ?  Just a thought.

I agree!  This man definitely has a huge narcissitic personality disorder.  I should know....he sounded exactly like my soon to be ex-husband, he committed the exact same atrocities and blamed everyone else.  I hope Cristie reads these and gets away from this man!  It was explained to me by several psychologists and psychiatrists it is not possible for this person to change.  RUN!!!  I did, and I thank heaven I did!