Topic : Living with Chronic Pain

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Created on : Thursday, July 07, 2005, 09:06:20 am
Author : dataimport
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May 15, 2007, 11:11 am PDT

Living with Chronic Pain

Quote From: comer1

No, they have not done blocks on me yet although my neurologist is very interested in trying it.  Have you had them and what do you think about them?  I've been trying to first monitor my condition as I have been seeing some results over time - but I also have had no physical therapy which I thought was a bit odd - NO doc has mentioned it even though I have a claw like hand with little to no strength in it - I found that very strange so I plan to ask the next time I'm at a doctor's office -
I hope the contractor can get to work on your house soon - your house looks so nice and peaceful. where do you all live?  I am in Virginia, in the suburbs right outside D.C.
Thanks for all of the info - it give me things to think about - I am becoming obsessed with learning all I can and trying to find something that works.- it really is a bizarro disease, as you put it!! I can think of no better description -
Take care, my wish for all here is that you have pain free days!!

D
 

hey again --

 

i want to give you some really *strong* advice!  the blocks need to be tried ASAP after diagnosis for the best results.  the theory goes something like this:  in the early months, the pain is "sympathetically maintained," still fully involved with just the sympathetic nervous system -- so sympathetic blocks sort of break the circuit and allow it to reset itself.

 

YOU NEED PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!  actually, and no one know exactly why, our hands are treated by "occupational therapy." occupational therapists also deal with "activities of daily living" -- lovingly known as ADLs.  like cooking!  all the myriad ways we use our hands everyday -- and i bet you never thought about that until suddenly one hand was out of commission.  i am still surprised daily by something that i am used to doing but cannot now.

 

a claw is a very bad thing and until your doctor orders OT for you (call him today!  this has me upset...) -- you need to "work" that hand, no matter the pain.  i know it hurts... but contractures can easily become permanent.  an OT can arrange for a customized splint, too, and while that's unwieldy and stuff... it will help.  i am going to get one in a week or so.  pain is always the issue

-- there are straps, etc.

 

so... let me be more cogent.  the ideal situation is to have a block (for the upper body, a stellate ganglion block) and if it takes away the pain and warms up the hand -- you go IMMEDIATELY for an intensive therapy session so that they can treat the hand aggressively without causing you to scream bloody murder.  that is the ideal and to tell the truth, i've yet to know anyone who has experienced that!  the doctor dickwad, who did my first series of lumbar sympathetic blocks for my right leg, did try to have that happen -- but the blocks never worked.  i was over 19 months out from the onset of crps/rsd and that made success much less likely.  after each block, my foot did warm a few degrees -- but i also had horrible spasms and cramps, such that touching the leg was impossible.

 

ask your doctor to refer you somewhere where OT or PT is *immediately* available after a block... there is no reason not to try for the ideal!!!

 

i've been heavy-handed [ar ar!] in this post and apologize.  it is just that time really is of the essence...

 

hang on.  i'm going to go try and find a section of the official guidelines for treatment... be right back!

 

i'm baaacckkkk.  and you know what?  these treatment guidelines explain EVERYTHING and i urge you and all of us with crps to read them, study them, print them out, and give them to every doctor and member of our medical "teams."  i keep forgetting about them but every time i go back to them, i am reinspired.  i've spoken with dr. kirkpatrick down at usf (my brother teaches there) and while he is not the most optimistic person i've ever talked to, the man knows his stuff.  he got into a spat with the people at rsds.org because he talks about some of the psychosocial aspects of the disease and for some reason they took that to mean he thought people with crps were nuts... which ain't the case, right?  right???  anyway, they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

 

here's where the clinical guidelines are:

http://www.rsdfoundation.org/en/en_clinical_practice_guidelines.html

 

here is a handy section from that protocol:

 

Treatment

The single most important modality for treating the patient with RSD / CRPS is education. The informed consent process should be the focus of education. The physician defines the potential benefits, risks, alternatives (and costs). From the start, the therapeutic goals must be defined and accepted by the patient:

  • Educate About Therapeutic Goals
  • Encourage Normal Use of the Limb (Physical therapy in some cases)
  • Minimize Pain
  • Determine the Contribution of the Sympathetic Nervous System to the Patient's Pain

The cornerstone in the treatment of RSD / CRPS is normal use of the affected part as much as possible. Therefore, all modalities of therapy (drugs, nerve blocks, TENS, physical therapy, etc.) are employed to facilitate movement of the affected region of the body. Although physical therapy is an important treatment modality, significant misuse and overuse of this modality may occur. Often the physical therapist will treat the patient with RSD / CRPS the same as a stroke or a nerve plexus injury, (which will fail due to extreme pain and possible injury with passive manipulation). The primary goal of the physical therapist should be to teach the patient how to use their affected body part through activities of daily living. Swimming pool exercises are very helpful, especially for RSD / CRPS of the lower extremity where weight-bearing can be problematic. The goal of physical therapy should be to create independence from the health care system in the shortest period. Learning that "to hurt is not to harm" is difficult, but it is essential to avoid reinjury.

Learning the non-protective nature of pain due to RSD / CRPS takes time. For patients who are significantly impaired in their ability to mobilize their extremity, it is urgent to offer the patient the opportunity to determine the contribution of their sympathetic nervous system to their pain. This is accomplished by a sympathetic nerve block to the affected extremity (Figure 2). Future therapeutic options for the patient will depend on whether their pain is determined to be sympathetically maintained pain (SMP) or sympathetically independent pain (SIP). Published reports suggest that the best response to sympathetic blocks will occur if the blocks are given as soon as possible during the course of the disease.

The "LET'S TRY THIS NOW" approach is to be deplored because it indicates that the physician has not defined a strategy to achieve specific therapeutic goals in the shortest period of time. It also adds to the confusion, frustration, anxiety and depression of the patient, which may intensify the patient's pain and adversely effect the doctor-patient relationship.


Figure 2

In Figure 2, a series 3-6 sympathetic nerve blocks refers to when

the first comprehensive update report would be helpful. Some patients

might require more than 6 sympathetic nerve blocks over

the course of treatment.


************************************************************************************************************

be well and excusez-moi -- too much coffee.

 

prof

 

 

 
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May 15, 2007, 11:27 am PDT

Living with Chronic Pain

Quote From: lady_elf

The movie was good. I really enjoyed it, and the Sippable Sunday afterward.  It was a good day, and definitely helps put the bad days like yesterday into perspective.

I called Legal Services and actually got through this time. Afterward, I hit a big crash emotionally. I started sobbing while putting on my braces after a nap. That was the first of the crying jags.

The unfairness of it all hit me hard. I suddenly felt hurt and screwed over.

Today, better emotionally but my stomach is messing with me bad. Yeah, I think it's back to Full Liquids for me. I did get some dishes done yesterday. But I think I'll call today a sick day as bad as my stomach feels.

I actually napped for over two hours this morning. And I'm still tired. Here's hoping tomorrow is a better day all around.

I hope you, and everyone else here, is having a good day.

Blessed be,

Morgan

hi morgan,

 

with all you're going through, you deserve a day off -- but i am sorry it has to be a sick day off!  you really *have* been treated with great unfairness and when that hits, yes, i bet that hurts like hades.

 

are you tired of the liquids or are you able to vary things enough to satisfy?

 

we ran out of cat food last night so this morning was pure chaos -- five meowing kittens and an upset mama -- and sammy glaring at me, too.  i scrambled them all some eggs and am very insulted that only a few of the babies chowed down.  they can at least still nurse!  so hank is in a pissy mood -- he hates going to the store when he hasn't *planned* to go to the store... and, being the sensible person that i am, i gave him a grocery list and asked him to pick up my medications!  let's see if we're still on speaking terms!

 

you are a very brave woman, morgan, and i am proud to "know" you -- i'm in your corner.  i still secretly harbor the hope that you'll come help me clean up my house -- figuratively and literally!

 

bartender... give that girl another ensure, on me...

prof

 
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May 15, 2007, 2:19 pm PDT

living with celiac sprue

Quote From: karenry

TO ALL:

 

 

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61

 

Try this link for information on applying for disability. Hope there is something there that helps.

 

This is at a site with online patient support groups for people with neurological problems and other things.

always being extra carlful about the food you eat plus with sprue it cause's pain in your whole body  only 1in 122 people are supposed to have it . Its so had to live with this its been one year now whene is it suppose to get easier?
 
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May 15, 2007, 2:59 pm PDT

Living with RA

Hello,

 

Large misunderstanding about RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis), as being an old age or even an adult developed disease is not true.  An individual can develop RA as a result of family genetics, such as my case.  During age nine, while my parents and I moved from one place to another for work, I was diagnosed with having JRA (Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis).  During this time the diagnosing Dr. was puzzled due to he could not understand how a child could develop RA at a young age. But it happened and my family did not during this time present a visible carrier link for RA. For my self to make a long, long story very short.... After multiple moves, each Dr. concluded after multiple repetitions of the same tests, that I had and still have active RA.  Which result in my present bone deterioration.  I have several pain symptoms associated with my arthritis from childhood to present but I ignore them as I have done during early childhood.  One helpful advice I received early on while understanding the meaning behind my pain and stiffness, was to keep moving even during pain.  By using the term saying "use it or lose it". I continue to use my achy stiff joints everyday for everything that I can manage and even for some things I cannot.  I skate sometimes with my young family members during their visits and play at them parks with them knowing full well that I hurt and will hurt later in the moment, hour, day and week.  But to see the expression of their face provides me with joy for those few moments until my joints feel like I've been thrown off a truck, for just walking from the car to the gate (I do not have a handicap sticker, due to RA at such a young age is viewed as non critical).  I feel the pain and stress associated with individuals who feel similarly to the way I feel. But as I have said earlier, pain is a sign of life and "use it or lose it". 

 

My other physical symptoms seem to coincide with Fibromyalsia or CFS while my blood tests are positive for lupus. My new Dr. keeps giving me the look of how old are you. I guess because the tests say I have the same problems as an older individual would develop after a lifetime, but I have developed before teen hood and young adulthood.

 

with my own objective on life to keep moving and have nothing stand in my way. I keep treading forward to finish my edu. goals, even though my councilors suggest I should not. 

 

Thanks for allowing me to vent,

Sprinkly :>

 
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May 15, 2007, 4:55 pm PDT

THANK YOU!!

Quote From: profderien

hey again --

 

i want to give you some really *strong* advice!  the blocks need to be tried ASAP after diagnosis for the best results.  the theory goes something like this:  in the early months, the pain is "sympathetically maintained," still fully involved with just the sympathetic nervous system -- so sympathetic blocks sort of break the circuit and allow it to reset itself.

 

YOU NEED PHYSICAL THERAPY!!!  actually, and no one know exactly why, our hands are treated by "occupational therapy." occupational therapists also deal with "activities of daily living" -- lovingly known as ADLs.  like cooking!  all the myriad ways we use our hands everyday -- and i bet you never thought about that until suddenly one hand was out of commission.  i am still surprised daily by something that i am used to doing but cannot now.

 

a claw is a very bad thing and until your doctor orders OT for you (call him today!  this has me upset...) -- you need to "work" that hand, no matter the pain.  i know it hurts... but contractures can easily become permanent.  an OT can arrange for a customized splint, too, and while that's unwieldy and stuff... it will help.  i am going to get one in a week or so.  pain is always the issue

-- there are straps, etc.

 

so... let me be more cogent.  the ideal situation is to have a block (for the upper body, a stellate ganglion block) and if it takes away the pain and warms up the hand -- you go IMMEDIATELY for an intensive therapy session so that they can treat the hand aggressively without causing you to scream bloody murder.  that is the ideal and to tell the truth, i've yet to know anyone who has experienced that!  the doctor dickwad, who did my first series of lumbar sympathetic blocks for my right leg, did try to have that happen -- but the blocks never worked.  i was over 19 months out from the onset of crps/rsd and that made success much less likely.  after each block, my foot did warm a few degrees -- but i also had horrible spasms and cramps, such that touching the leg was impossible.

 

ask your doctor to refer you somewhere where OT or PT is *immediately* available after a block... there is no reason not to try for the ideal!!!

 

i've been heavy-handed [ar ar! in this post and apologize.  it is just that time really is of the essence...

 

hang on.  i'm going to go try and find a section of the official guidelines for treatment... be right back!

 

i'm baaacckkkk.  and you know what?  these treatment guidelines explain EVERYTHING and i urge you and all of us with crps to read them, study them, print them out, and give them to every doctor and member of our medical "teams."  i keep forgetting about them but every time i go back to them, i am reinspired.  i've spoken with dr. kirkpatrick down at usf (my brother teaches there) and while he is not the most optimistic person i've ever talked to, the man knows his stuff.  he got into a spat with the people at rsds.org because he talks about some of the psychosocial aspects of the disease and for some reason they took that to mean he thought people with crps were nuts... which ain't the case, right?  right???  anyway, they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

 

here's where the clinical guidelines are:

http://www.rsdfoundation.org/en/en_clinical_practice_guidelines.html

 

here is a handy section from that protocol:

 

Treatment

The single most important modality for treating the patient with RSD / CRPS is education. The informed consent process should be the focus of education. The physician defines the potential benefits, risks, alternatives (and costs). From the start, the therapeutic goals must be defined and accepted by the patient:

  • Educate About Therapeutic Goals
  • Encourage Normal Use of the Limb (Physical therapy in some cases)
  • Minimize Pain
  • Determine the Contribution of the Sympathetic Nervous System to the Patient's Pain

The cornerstone in the treatment of RSD / CRPS is normal use of the affected part as much as possible. Therefore, all modalities of therapy (drugs, nerve blocks, TENS, physical therapy, etc.) are employed to facilitate movement of the affected region of the body. Although physical therapy is an important treatment modality, significant misuse and overuse of this modality may occur. Often the physical therapist will treat the patient with RSD / CRPS the same as a stroke or a nerve plexus injury, (which will fail due to extreme pain and possible injury with passive manipulation). The primary goal of the physical therapist should be to teach the patient how to use their affected body part through activities of daily living. Swimming pool exercises are very helpful, especially for RSD / CRPS of the lower extremity where weight-bearing can be problematic. The goal of physical therapy should be to create independence from the health care system in the shortest period. Learning that "to hurt is not to harm" is difficult, but it is essential to avoid reinjury.

Learning the non-protective nature of pain due to RSD / CRPS takes time. For patients who are significantly impaired in their ability to mobilize their extremity, it is urgent to offer the patient the opportunity to determine the contribution of their sympathetic nervous system to their pain. This is accomplished by a sympathetic nerve block to the affected extremity (Figure 2). Future therapeutic options for the patient will depend on whether their pain is determined to be sympathetically maintained pain (SMP) or sympathetically independent pain (SIP). Published reports suggest that the best response to sympathetic blocks will occur if the blocks are given as soon as possible during the course of the disease.

The "LET'S TRY THIS NOW" approach is to be deplored because it indicates that the physician has not defined a strategy to achieve specific therapeutic goals in the shortest period of time. It also adds to the confusion, frustration, anxiety and depression of the patient, which may intensify the patient's pain and adversely effect the doctor-patient relationship.


Figure 2

In Figure 2, a series 3-6 sympathetic nerve blocks refers to when

the first comprehensive update report would be helpful. Some patients

might require more than 6 sympathetic nerve blocks over

the course of treatment.


************************************************************************************************************

be well and excusez-moi -- too much coffee.

 

prof

 

 

 for all of this great information!! Please - no need to apologize at all - this is the sort of info I need in order to stay on top of my treatment and what better way than to hear from someone who has been through this!!  I really appreciate all of your feedback and especially hearing about some of the treatment options.

It still amazes me too about the PT not being mentioned - and when I was first going through this - I was so sick and in so much pain, it never occurred to me to even ask anyone about it.
I just kept trying to find something that would stop the pain -

Thanks again, take care of yourself, and I hope everyone reading these posts has a restful night!!!

All the best, Prof!

~D

P.S.  I'll keep you posted on my treatment progress!!
 
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May 15, 2007, 8:53 pm PDT

Hello,first time

Hello, My name is Lynda and I myself have been living with chronic pain since 2003. I have Interstitial Cystitis, it is a bladder disease that can not be cured. I am on huge amounts of pain medication everyday. I dont know whats worse the disease or the pain medication.  The only way I get thru a day is to keep my faith strong.  I wish te bestfor each any every one of you. I have never talked on line before so I really dont know what to say, I only wanted to give my support and maybe talk with someone who can TRULY understand what I am going thru.

 

Lynda

 
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May 15, 2007, 8:57 pm PDT

Hello again

Hello, I have been reading the messages on the board and I hope that I can still chat with you all even thought we dont have the same disease.  My diseaes is not widely know but if your interested there is a website that goes in to detail about what Interstitial Cystitis is, www.ica.org. I hope I am not intruding, I really need to talk with someone who understands before I go out of my mind. 

Lynda

 
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May 16, 2007, 1:04 am PDT

Blocks

prof,

 

I've had the blocks done twice,I'm guessing back in 2003,2004 and they didn't help me a bit.I also have several TENS units that I quit using.One is a vest with a rechargable unit the others are portable battery units,one I purchased off the net without a perscription.The vest is very uncomfortable to wear and the adhesive on the contact pads of the portables cause a bad reaction to my skin and the last I used it I lost a rather good sized layer of skin on the back of my right shoulder.I'm just relying on weekly physical therapy and pool therapy.I just lost use of a therapy pool I've been using for 14 months and found another facility run by Easter Seals.The bad news is the Easter Seals pool is nearly twice as expensive and is not as deep,no hot tub and restrictive open pool times.My upper core body conditioning is so weak that I had to endure twice weekly phys therapy to get me up to the level of getting into the pool and being able to work out in it.The water has to be above 93 degrees and other than water walking my movements are very restrictive.

 

I'm willing to bet with the advances in medical science a good deal of us will have more options for pain releif within the next 5 to 10 years.

 
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May 16, 2007, 9:09 am PDT

No worries, Lynda

Quote From: lmguzman

Hello, I have been reading the messages on the board and I hope that I can still chat with you all even thought we dont have the same disease.  My diseaes is not widely know but if your interested there is a website that goes in to detail about what Interstitial Cystitis is, www.ica.org. I hope I am not intruding, I really need to talk with someone who understands before I go out of my mind. 

Lynda

There do happen to be several people with the same condition here. However, some of us have other issues that also cause pain. *raises hand*

In my case, I have Crohn's Disease (a gastrointestinal disorder), and late onset Friedreich's Ataxia (a progressive genetic neuromuscular condition) as well as a genetic deformity of one of my vertebra - all of which cause me pain of different types.

All people with all causes of chronic pain are welcome here.

Have a seat and stay a while.

Blessed be,

Morgan
 
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May 16, 2007, 9:54 am PDT

welcome, linda

Quote From: lmguzman

Hello, I have been reading the messages on the board and I hope that I can still chat with you all even thought we dont have the same disease.  My diseaes is not widely know but if your interested there is a website that goes in to detail about what Interstitial Cystitis is, www.ica.org. I hope I am not intruding, I really need to talk with someone who understands before I go out of my mind. 

Lynda

interstitial cystitis sounds very painful and i am so sorry you're having to go through all of this.  why would you think you are intruding?!  there are all sorts of chronic pain conditions represented here -- but *pain* itself is what we are all fighting -- so make yourself at home -- and don't go out of your mind!

 

i imagine that interstitial cystitis is considered a form of neuropathy?  (i haven't visited the web site you suggest yet -- but will)  if that's the case, i can relate to that sort of constant and burning pain...

 

tell us about yourself and the ways you've found to cope...

 

be well,

prof

 

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