Topic : Toxic Family Relationships

   
October 23, 2005, 9:12 pm PDT Help for nieces and nephews
I could really use some advice if anyone out there is willing to share! I am a single/divorced aunt with no children to a 15-year-old nephew, 12-year-old niece, and 5-year-old nephew. All are good-hearted kids, and all three have separate fathers. My 36-year-old sister has moved in with many men over the years because she dislikes living alone, and all have, of course, failed.  The kids have witnessed all the problems between their mother and whatever man was there and have stuck together as best they can with the help of my parents who have cared for them most of their lives.  They have bounced back and forth between my folks' home and my sister's home. She has once again moved in with a man who has five children of his own. They all live in Arizona with their mother, and there is contact between his kids and hers about every other month. All seem to get along, but the problem is my sister. When my folks care for the three of them, they all confirm that my sister spends little if no time at all with them, stays in her room and only comes out to cook for her boyfriend while the kids cook and take care of themselves. My parents have confronted her on this, and her response was to keep the kids away from our entire family. She becomes angry with the kids, telling them to keep their mouths shut or they'll never see their grandma and grandpa. She is verbally abusing them, and the 15-year-old is very much aware of what his mother is like, even going so far as inputting her cell phone ID as "I hate her" onto his phone. He does not bring it  up, but when asked about it, he simply says,"I hate her. She never takes care of us, and she cares only for herself and her boyfriend." If any of us were to confront her on this, she would know the kids were talking about it and take it out on them.Each of the three have confirmed the same actions, and none of the three have told their fathers. The fathers see the kids on regular visitations and basically are decent people, regardless of their relationship with my sister. The kids know if they were to speak to their respective fathers, the same thing would happen, they would be "in trouble" for opening their mouths. My older sister, my mother, my father, and my older brother and I want what is best for these kids, but we are unsure how to proceed. We have tried to intervene, but the result always ends up putting the kids in a worse position than they are already in. They are not starving, without clothing or material things, but are emotionally battered.  Please, any advice for us?

I saw this thread "Toxic family relationships" and knew it was where I needed to post for advice on this particular issue. I feel torn as to the right course of action in this case. My mother-in-law is.... well unhinged. I have never in my life met someone so disfunctional. My husband and I had issues with her when we first got engagedin 1999. We took the action of ignoring her and got married anyway. She seemed to soon come to terms with this, apologised and was reasonably civil and attentive and if not excessive so. That was until we had our first child in March this year. Whilst visiting us shortly after her birth my mother-in-law came to a new level of repugnance. As there was no obvious trigger I can't say how it suddenly came about but she declared in the most vile way to her son, my husband, that she did not love him, did not even like him. My husband did me very proud and remained cool and calm and simply said if that be the case she should leave. This of course was not what she had wanted - I believe she had done this to try and get my husband to suck up in some way. So a new onslaught ensued from her to which I will not go into detail but to say it would have been the closest thing to a human spewing toxic waste from their mouths with every viporus word. We cut all ties with his mother for two months until his dad asked us to come and try and sort things out. We did not trust her but thought that we would at least hear her out. Wisdom dictacted that when the first thing she said was "do you just want me to say sorry and get it over and done with or do you want to talk this out" it was a hopeless cause and we should have left straight away but we didn't. We stayed to listen to what she said. I had expected her to manipulate but had not been ready for how exceptionally tallented she was in this area and found myself halfway through the manipulation before realising it. Of course once it was realised we left immediately and have had nothing to do with her since. The sad thing about this story is that we have no grudge with my husbands father, who through years of living with this women has had his spirit crushed and constantly settles for a cheap peace. However, we can't have anything to do with him without her involved as well. It is my "unproffessional" opinion that she has narcissistic personality disorder and is not to be trusted or have the character not to Chernobyl in front of or manipulate our daughter. Despite this it rubs raw to deprive our daughter of her grandparents, especially when one merely suffers a lack of backbone. I do not know however how to get this women to maintain the boundries of respect even when given very limited access to our family. There seems to be no right answer, each case has pros and cons, some more destructive then others. I do not have peace about the decision to cut ties, but nor do I believe I would find it if I had chosen the reverse. Based upon this very limited account of her (as there is far more that could be said of other things she has done) what would be your advice?

That is sad. I would get the fathers involved and let them know exactly what is going on. Why should these kids suffer any longer ? The fathers should take her to court and get full custody and give her visitation on the weekends only. Mabey then, she will enjoy them and treat them like she should. Those chldren have got to be miserable and only YOU can share their "voice" to their fathers so he can help them have a healthier life. I know this woman probably loves her children, but it sounds like right now she doesnt have the time for them due to "relationships" with men. If nothing else, why dont you or your parents try to get the kids to live with you so that they can all be together. Maybe do a "temporary guardianship" or something until this woman gets stable. The 15 y/o and the 12 y/o have been through enough, but the 5 y/o I think, will suffer more if nothing is done. Just my opinion and I hope this helps. I have a neice who is just like this woman. She puts herself first before her kids and now she might be fixing to lose them to cps.

WOW! Your mil sounds like mine! and so does the fil. My husbands mother is against him and has said hateful things to him as well and has nothing to do with our children. (going on 2 years now). You and your husband have YOUR own family now. If she (mil) cant respect your boundaries, then keep the  distance. It would be better for you, your husband and your child. My husbands father is just like your fil. He did nothing wrong and he knows he can visit us but wont because we wont allow our mil the time of day anymore to manipulate us or try to control us or use our kids to her advantage. If fil had a backbone to stand up to her he could be a part of our lives, but he dont so therefore that is HIS choice too. MY mil finally realized (thanks to my husband), that she is NOT in control of OUR family. Since he put her in her place she decided to get back at us by ignoring her grandchildren. NO b-days, no calls, no visits, no nothing. When WE realized what SHE was doing, WE cut her out completely! She had tried to destroy our relationship from the get go. She can be mad at us and ignore us, but when she started doing it to the kids, it was best for our children NOT to be around people like her. If you want to have a healthy marriage and loving family, then weigh the pro's and con's. Our counselor advised us to stay away from her because she is toxic to our family and  our marriage.  My mil has done ALOT of hateful things to all of us. Concentrate on your family and what is best for you guys. You cant change her and her ways, and if you cant accept her ways, then I would stay away for the sake of your family. I would let the fil know that he can be a part of your lives, and that is his choice to make, however if mil cant "change" herself, then she cant. WE have been there going on 7 years. These last 2 years of being ignored by this woman has been the most WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL 2 years in our lives! My husband will tell you the same thing. Good luck!

I read the last couple of posts in here, and I find it really funny that there are so many evil mother in laws.  My situation is a little different, but the end result is the same.  My father in law died early on.  My husband and I had only been married 3 years and our daughter was only 6 mo. when he passed.  Life was very sweet until the day he died.  My mother in law turn into broom hilda.  What we have come to realise is: my mother in law is a closet alcoholic.  My father in law kept her under control, but the minute he died, she was free to do what ever she wanted and she usually did.  She has never liked me.  She said I stole her baby when my husband and I got married.  So when my father in law died, she wanted her son back.  She resented the fact that he had to go home at some point because I was waiting.  At one point in our lives we had to move to another state to find work.  My husband went to his new job and I stayed behind with our 2 kids to sell the house and get things together so we could go and be with him.  My mother in law would come over and act like she really cared and would talk to me about how the hunt for new owners to our home was going.  She would take this little bit of information and run home and call my husband and tell a story that did not even resemble what actually happened.  Then he would call me and be mad and didn't understand and it was just ugly.  I was even thinking I wanted to divorce this man.  But after everything came together and we had time to sit and talk things out.  We noticed that the stories she had told him and what actually happened were not the same.  She was trying to break us up in some suttle way.  That was the beginning of the end for her.  Now it is 20plus years later.  WE have absolutely no contact with her at all.  No phone calls on mothers day, no sharing presents at Christmas,....Nothing.  Every so often she will send a newspaper article or pictures of someone we used to know, but we do not respond to them.  She keeps trying to invite us to family reunions, we do not go.  A few years ago my husband tried to talk to his mom and explain his feelings.  Everything he brought up, she denied any knowledge of it and the few things she did remember, she blamed on me.....So we have cut her off.  Our lives are way better with out her in it.  OUr 2 kids are grown and have their own families, which we are part of.  I get along with my daughter in law and I have unlimited access to my grandson.  I have a son in law that tells me I can come to visit and stay as long as I want.  So Itry to focas on that.  My mother in law has been gone from our lives for so long now we don't even give her another thought.  We still think about all the bad stuff she created for us early on and try to figure out why.  But it just doesn't matter any more. 

  

Toxic Family Relationships, hmmmm I just had to add my 2 cents worth.  As a mother in law to 2 and almost 3 and mother to 3.....and I think I can speak for MOST mother-in-laws.  Our roles have changed over the years.  My mother and grandmother got to enjoy their roles as inlaws and grands.  Today, so much has been put back on US to be instant baby sitters, therefore, disciplining our grands where their parents or sitters should be doing this.  Course we gladly don't refuse the help and gladly do it.  I think alot of the TOXIC family relationships  could be put back to ok, if grown children would budget and not have to borrow from us, arrange appropriate babysitting outside of the grands, and just invite us over for some time with them to enjoy them as a family.  This is the way it was back in the 70's and 80's.....and I think if young parents realized how little we need of "THEIR TIME" to enjoy their families...things would not be as TOXIC.   For example, I loan money to my children, and expect it back, as I take them out to dinners etc.  NOW after loaning my daughter, who was getting a divorce $2000 for a car and expecting it to be paid back, as we agreed, as little as $10 a week.....I AM A TOXIC mother......It's not all about the elders making it toxic!!  I know this doesn't apply to all, but hoping will give insite to those it might help where my generation comes from!  

I Agree with you , but I also would like to say that Kids today are very materialistic!!!!  They have to have instant gratification......which I think is so sad.  Why can't they see the whole picture here, that grandma and grandpa are not going to be around forever, and they should just be able to enjoy their grandkids.  But alot of grandparents don't even get to see their grandchildren and are being used as a bargaining chip.  This is just cruel, in my opinion!!!!!  Why???  Blame it on the Toxic Syndrome!!!!!  Yeh, that makes sense!!!!!

  Thank you! 

    My daughter broke it off with the boy about 3 weeks ago! She is back to her "normal" self again. She is so happy and out going again!  

   I took your advice and tied into her feelings------ We had a nice talk and she finally understood that she deserves so much more in life!  

              Again Thank you! 

                                             Lisa 

   Thank you for all of the sound advice!  

  Missy has broken it off with Dave . 

 She is back to being her " normal' self again. She is so happy. You are a great advisor to a mother in a scary situation. She and I had a nice talk and she understands why I am so worried for her. She also realizes she deserves do much morein life. 

                                                                              Thank You: Lisa 

i really don't know how to deal with her.  it's not like i'm a little girl, i'm 20 and i live on my own, i haven't taken money from her since i moved out over 2 years ago.  i've been able to deal with her thus far, but back in april i was visiting a friend in las vegas and he and i took our friendship to the next level.  we are currently in a long distance right now, i'm living in japan.  i'll be moving back to the states in dec.  i want to move to vegas, but i know that won't go over well with my mom.  here's the full story. 

  

i met joe (my SO) back in janurary, he was in japan at the time, we met on the job.  he was going through a divorce and a custody battle with his ex.  he's 23, not that much older than me.  he separated from the military and went home, i took leave in april and visited him, i was supposed to leave on saturday, but stayed an extra night til sunday.  then on sunday, an hour before i had to leave to catch my plane, we kissed.  i decided to stay another night, i told my mom it was so we could talk about what happened.  we"talked" all right.  i got home the next day and my said she got worried that i was spending extra days cuz she thought that their family was part of a cult.  (she's never met these people.)  i haven't told my mom about us.  she also told me that i was too young for that kind of a relationship.  (my mom didn't get married til she was 34.)  i'm going to tell her in december, that's when i'm moving back to the states.  i'm worried about what she's going to say.  she was never good about letting go.  she writes me letters, but they're more like instruction manuels.  since i'm moving, she's told me ship things in advance, why should i pay money to ship it home, when the government will pay, it's a PCS move, the government's responsible for getting my things to my next duty station.   when i talk to her, i say "ok, i have to go."  and then i make up some kind of excuse.  i was talking to her on IM and i could feel i was starting to tense up, like i had to get off.  it's frustrating.  i told joe, it doesn't matter what my mom says i'm going to stay with him.  when i first told her we kissed, she said, be careful he's only interested in one thing.  he wants to get you into bed.  which is not true.  i would not be with him if that was the case.   

  

i need advice on how to deal with her in dec.  when i make this shocking announcement.  joe will be coming to meet them, i'm going to wait a few days let her get to know him and then "drop the bomb" so to speak.