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Topic : Toxic Family Relationships

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Created on : Thursday, July 07, 2005, 09:18:00 am
Author : dataimport
Whether it stems from substance abuse, violence or manipulation, some family relationships are harmful and need to be terminated until the abuse stops. Are you involved in a toxic relationship?

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December 7, 2005, 9:47 pm PST

detaching

Quote From: shelleyn05

I have a question and I hope someone can help me with this. I very much agree with what Dr. Phil says on his show about it not being the place of a family member to take another family member's inventory. 

  

It's taken me YEARS to get this, but with the help of Dr. Phil's show and other materials I've read, I finally came to realize that I can have peace in my life by detaching from the train wrecks that are the lives of some of my family members. I've been a lot more at peace with myself and just generally feeling a lot better since I came to the conclusion that if they want to run it off in the ditch, have at it. If it doesn't personally affect me, then I don't care if they steer toward the ditch with gusto. 

  

Here's where I run into some difficulty with this way of thinking and I hope someone can help sort it out for me. I want to stay detached from what my family members are doing, but I'm finding this hard to do with my mother whose entire life is one huge Amtrak disaster. We are fairly close (emotionally, but not geographically) and she'll call about once a week. The calls always involve her telling me about something she's done with my brother or someone else that has WAY crossed boundary lines. My brother is 31 and a total mess (abusive and bordering on sociopathic). I have no relationship with him, but my mother does and she will tell me about something she did or say that is just way overstepping her boundaries. She does this with other people too such as the teachers of her grandson. She's raising her grandson and feels the teachers aren't doing enough when in fact, she's the worst parent on the planet in regards to the grandson. In other words, she's the problem, not the school. 

  

Anyway, my question is this: how do I stay detached in the face of her telling me the things she has done or said that are way overstepping her boundaries? Do I say anything to her about it when she tells me/complains to me or do I just change the subject? What's the best way to do this? Despite the fact that I believe she's made and continues to make huge mistakes in her life, I have had to get to a point of backing away. So is it better to just change the subject or should I say "Mom, that wasn' appropriate" or what? 

  

Thanks! 

It seems your mother is struggling to become super-woman, but has too much on her hands and needs to vent.  Listen to her, she needs that.  She might feel you dont understand the urgency if you ignore her.  Maybe you could suggest she gets help, like a tutor for her grandchild, and a support group.  Let her know you care about her but you just dont have the answers. 

Hope that helps. 

 
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December 8, 2005, 12:47 pm PST

thanks for your reply

Quote From: inbetween

Your daughter is being Verbally Abused and Emotionally Abused......That is why her personality has changed.......and she is definitely co-dependant.......and the abuse will not stop......it will escalate.....and it could get physical.......you said that you go to therapy with her......is there anyone there who is experienced in therapy concerning abusive relationships that she could talk to......many therapists might have hand outs on the subject that lists the signs of Abuse..........This is a dangerous situation for your daughter, the belittling, manipulation, the fear.........he is controlling her........The best way to get rid of him......is for her to detach.....No Contact whatsoever!!!!!!  But if I were her mother........I would step in and explain to her the danger she is in.........and of course, she is 20, and she might not listen, but maybe by her seeing the signs and talking to a therapist, it will open her eyes to see that she does not deserve to be abused by anyone!!!!    Inbetween
I'll continue to talk to her and give her advise, even though she may not agree.  Thanks for your input
 
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December 9, 2005, 4:51 pm PST

Also, for Help!!

Quote From: legalgirl

I'll continue to talk to her and give her advise, even though she may not agree.  Thanks for your input
You could also have her go to:  www.drirene.com it is a great website for the signs of all kinds of abuse.....and that way she could read and learn for herself the signs of Abuse and what she needs to do for her situation........I met to give this to you when I posted my answer and forgot, Sorry...inbetween
 

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December 12, 2005, 11:18 am PST

Toxic Family Relationships

Dear Dr. Phil,
This is all about mother, daughter communication breakdown.  We went from a most incredible relationship of love and friendship to a thick wall between us.  It seems to have happened after she married.  Karen  is a beautiful girl, has a great husband, who is a trememdous father and good provider.  Karen and Jeff have 2 girls, my grandaughters, ages 10 and 12.  We live about 20 minutes away and most of Jeff's family also live in the area. 
Problem:  I0 days ago I made arrangements to pick the girls up on this past Saturday AM, spend the day, go see a play and bring them home after breakfast on Sunday morning.  As it turns out, Hailey, the youngest had a previously planned B-day party that Karen had overlooked.  Understandably, with busy schedules, so it was decided it was going to be one on one time with Lauren, age 12 and me.   On Friday, I received a call from Karen that said, "Lauren received an invitation to a b-day party a couple of weeks ago and she said,  she didn't like the girl and didn't want to go. Now she has found out that some of her friends are going, so now she wants to go to the party instead of coming with you.   You will be getting a call from Lauren and she is going to try to talk you into letting her go.  Stand your ground and don't give in.  Jeff and I have both told her "no"!  She has been told that she was to call you 3 days ago, and she put if off and didn't do as she was asked. "  I agreed, thinking that I would just be supporting their decision.
The phone call came from Lauren and I firmly told her I would pick her up at 11AM on Saturday morning.  Little did I know, she had been told, by her mother,  "that's between you and your Gramma". (meaning going to the party or coming with me)  Well...that gave Lauren an open door and I was in the middle, and she wasn't going to give up.  It is not fair to me and is not my job as a Gramma, to discipline and enforce.  I called to let Karen know that I did not want to be put in that position, and that it literally made me sick .  That is not the kind of relationship that Lauren and I have and I had not been part of her lack of follow through.   I was told in no uncertain terms that I had been  warned...etc..etc.. and exactly why she warned me, is so that she wouldn't be having  this conversation with me.  I was then given my instructions that I am  to make plans directly with the girls and Karen is not going to mediate my relationship with them.  I was told that the kids aren't in diapers anymore,  don't have diaper bags and Karen doesn't have to pack them, they both have cell phones and I have to make my arrangements with them, she doesn't want to be involved.  Then Karen yelled at Lauren to come and talk to "her grandmother" on the phone, because she was tired of being yelled at by me over the situation.
Well, Lauren did not come to spend the day, we didn't go to the play and she didn't spend the night.  She did not go to the party, but she was allowed to have a friend spend the night and her Granny (Jeff's Mom) took them ice skating.   I personally think that is a very poor message to send to a 12 year old.
I did make an attempt to take them to a movie on Sunday, by communicating directly with the girls via their cell phones.  Without the details, it did not work out well (not even close) and understandably so .... and now my son-in-law is in the mix.
This is obviously not the first disagreement, hurt feelings and misunderstanding that has occured between Karen and me.  I have several questions: 
Based on my perception of what occured ( I know there are always 2 sides to a story) where did I go wrong?  What could I have done to prevent this situation?  How can it be fixed?
There is no denying that I go between hurt feelings and anger.  I really don't know how to handle any of this.
I think that Lauren should have been given the option to keep her commitment with me or stay home, even though she didn't go to the party, she should  not been able to have a friend spend the night and  go ice skating.  Am I off base?
Thanks for your input.
BJ
 
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December 12, 2005, 11:27 am PST

No support for abandoned wife and child overseas

 My sister is in the Philippines.  She married a man in Flordia who very early in the marriage made a baby with my sister.  After his attempts at an abortion my sister moved back to the Philippines where she could birth the baby and protect the baby from her husband. 
     The child was a beautiful baby boy.  The problem now is the birh father only sends $20.00 or so a month when he thinks about it.  This is no were near enough to raise a child even in the Philippines The child has the right to be an american citizen because his birth father is an american and the father sending money proves he is the father.  The father is around 67 years old and is on social security but refuses to sign up his son for the benifit..  My sister filled out the papers for social security for their son but because the father refuses to fill out the american citizen papers for the child social security will not send the checks to the child.
     What can be done about all of this.    My husband and I are very conserned about this and send money when we can to help out the child...  Does anyone know a way to help......Melchie
 
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December 12, 2005, 12:29 pm PST

I understand

Quote From: jxwild

The nerve! Honey, you are being very loose by allowing them any contact at all. You need to realise that they are using your children to hurt you. They have no right to pollute your kids brains with lies. Your kids can't speak and judge for themselves so you have to do it for them. It's time to cut the line. Like the last message you got, a cooling off period is necessary. But maybe it is more necessary to sever the relationship and surround your kids with better role models. After all, they could write back saying their over it and then continue to pollute the minds of your children, but instead tell them they can't tell you about it. It is obvious from their actions that the care very little about the welfare of your children and are trying to get them to file for divorce or something (i don't know if kids can do that in america but they can in australia).  

  

The point is this: They want your kids and they can't get them without their co-operation. 

  

Take your kids and run. Very, very fast. 

It's really sad when  parents do that.  Instead of helping us they critisize us and want to take complete controll of our babies.  My parents used to take care of my daughter, but it all ended for a similar reason as yours.  They were putting me down in front of my daughter and then questioning me about every  decision I would make.    I just had to stop letting her stay the night.  I now never get any alone time with my husband, but I know in the long run it will all be for the best.  Good luck to you. 

 
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December 12, 2005, 3:55 pm PST

WOW

Quote From: melchie

 My sister is in the Philippines.  She married a man in Flordia who very early in the marriage made a baby with my sister.  After his attempts at an abortion my sister moved back to the Philippines where she could birth the baby and protect the baby from her husband. 
     The child was a beautiful baby boy.  The problem now is the birh father only sends $20.00 or so a month when he thinks about it.  This is no were near enough to raise a child even in the Philippines The child has the right to be an american citizen because his birth father is an american and the father sending money proves he is the father.  The father is around 67 years old and is on social security but refuses to sign up his son for the benifit..  My sister filled out the papers for social security for their son but because the father refuses to fill out the american citizen papers for the child social security will not send the checks to the child.
     What can be done about all of this.    My husband and I are very conserned about this and send money when we can to help out the child...  Does anyone know a way to help......Melchie
67 years old? There has got to be a way to get him to pay child support. First, there needs to be a paternity test done. Father or not, it will be best to have one done in order to proceed. Just because he sends money now does not make him the father.  Even though they are married, she left to have the baby in another country. She needs to come back to America and sign up for legal aid or something if she cant afford a lawyer in order to "prove" he is the babies father in order to receive any benefits the baby is entitled too. Sue him for a paternity test. BUT....once this is done, and it proves to be his child, then HE will have parental rights to the child as well. Thats the way it works in America. He wasnt there to sign the birth certificate, so he can easily say the child isnt his.  She needs to prove it first. The only way to do this is come back to America and do it. How old is she? He is mighty old to be having babies.
 
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December 12, 2005, 5:15 pm PST

Granny not to blame

Quote From: bjkochen

Dear Dr. Phil,
This is all about mother, daughter communication breakdown.  We went from a most incredible relationship of love and friendship to a thick wall between us.  It seems to have happened after she married.  Karen  is a beautiful girl, has a great husband, who is a trememdous father and good provider.  Karen and Jeff have 2 girls, my grandaughters, ages 10 and 12.  We live about 20 minutes away and most of Jeff's family also live in the area. 
Problem:  I0 days ago I made arrangements to pick the girls up on this past Saturday AM, spend the day, go see a play and bring them home after breakfast on Sunday morning.  As it turns out, Hailey, the youngest had a previously planned B-day party that Karen had overlooked.  Understandably, with busy schedules, so it was decided it was going to be one on one time with Lauren, age 12 and me.   On Friday, I received a call from Karen that said, "Lauren received an invitation to a b-day party a couple of weeks ago and she said,  she didn't like the girl and didn't want to go. Now she has found out that some of her friends are going, so now she wants to go to the party instead of coming with you.   You will be getting a call from Lauren and she is going to try to talk you into letting her go.  Stand your ground and don't give in.  Jeff and I have both told her "no"!  She has been told that she was to call you 3 days ago, and she put if off and didn't do as she was asked. "  I agreed, thinking that I would just be supporting their decision.
The phone call came from Lauren and I firmly told her I would pick her up at 11AM on Saturday morning.  Little did I know, she had been told, by her mother,  "that's between you and your Gramma". (meaning going to the party or coming with me)  Well...that gave Lauren an open door and I was in the middle, and she wasn't going to give up.  It is not fair to me and is not my job as a Gramma, to discipline and enforce.  I called to let Karen know that I did not want to be put in that position, and that it literally made me sick .  That is not the kind of relationship that Lauren and I have and I had not been part of her lack of follow through.   I was told in no uncertain terms that I had been  warned...etc..etc.. and exactly why she warned me, is so that she wouldn't be having  this conversation with me.  I was then given my instructions that I am  to make plans directly with the girls and Karen is not going to mediate my relationship with them.  I was told that the kids aren't in diapers anymore,  don't have diaper bags and Karen doesn't have to pack them, they both have cell phones and I have to make my arrangements with them, she doesn't want to be involved.  Then Karen yelled at Lauren to come and talk to "her grandmother" on the phone, because she was tired of being yelled at by me over the situation.
Well, Lauren did not come to spend the day, we didn't go to the play and she didn't spend the night.  She did not go to the party, but she was allowed to have a friend spend the night and her Granny (Jeff's Mom) took them ice skating.   I personally think that is a very poor message to send to a 12 year old.
I did make an attempt to take them to a movie on Sunday, by communicating directly with the girls via their cell phones.  Without the details, it did not work out well (not even close) and understandably so .... and now my son-in-law is in the mix.
This is obviously not the first disagreement, hurt feelings and misunderstanding that has occured between Karen and me.  I have several questions: 
Based on my perception of what occured ( I know there are always 2 sides to a story) where did I go wrong?  What could I have done to prevent this situation?  How can it be fixed?
There is no denying that I go between hurt feelings and anger.  I really don't know how to handle any of this.
I think that Lauren should have been given the option to keep her commitment with me or stay home, even though she didn't go to the party, she should  not been able to have a friend spend the night and  go ice skating.  Am I off base?
Thanks for your input.
BJ

BJ 

  

I was so saddened by your post.  First of all, you are not to blame for what happened and shame on your daughter for making it seem so.  She is abdicating her responsibility to and for her girls.   

Were they my children, I would have insisted that they either go with you as promised, or stay home.  There would not have been a third option. 

  

Your daughter is not teaching them to honor their commitments.  Nor is she teaching them to respect the feelings of others.   

  

I find it ridiculous that these girls, at ages 10 and 12, have cell phones, let alone the freedom to organize their social calendars without parental input.  The long-term implications of this lack of parental involvement are frightening. 

  

I'm not sure there is anything you can do to smooth this over.  Maintain your relationship with your granddaughters but understand that, unless or until their mother opens her eyes, you may be  playing second fiddle to their friends and other activities.   

  

Keeping a good thought for you. 

  

  

  

  

 

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December 13, 2005, 6:03 am PST

Thanks

Quote From: lyninsocal

BJ 

  

I was so saddened by your post.  First of all, you are not to blame for what happened and shame on your daughter for making it seem so.  She is abdicating her responsibility to and for her girls.   

Were they my children, I would have insisted that they either go with you as promised, or stay home.  There would not have been a third option. 

  

Your daughter is not teaching them to honor their commitments.  Nor is she teaching them to respect the feelings of others.   

  

I find it ridiculous that these girls, at ages 10 and 12, have cell phones, let alone the freedom to organize their social calendars without parental input.  The long-term implications of this lack of parental involvement are frightening. 

  

I'm not sure there is anything you can do to smooth this over.  Maintain your relationship with your granddaughters but understand that, unless or until their mother opens her eyes, you may be  playing second fiddle to their friends and other activities.   

  

Keeping a good thought for you. 

  

  

  

  

Hey ...I'm a socal girl myself.  Thanks for the good thoughts.  I actually wrote as kind of a therapy....and it did help.  Wishing you the happiest of Holidays.
 
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December 13, 2005, 11:31 am PST

To Melchie

Quote From: melchie

 My sister is in the Philippines.  She married a man in Flordia who very early in the marriage made a baby with my sister.  After his attempts at an abortion my sister moved back to the Philippines where she could birth the baby and protect the baby from her husband. 
     The child was a beautiful baby boy.  The problem now is the birh father only sends $20.00 or so a month when he thinks about it.  This is no were near enough to raise a child even in the Philippines The child has the right to be an american citizen because his birth father is an american and the father sending money proves he is the father.  The father is around 67 years old and is on social security but refuses to sign up his son for the benifit..  My sister filled out the papers for social security for their son but because the father refuses to fill out the american citizen papers for the child social security will not send the checks to the child.
     What can be done about all of this.    My husband and I are very conserned about this and send money when we can to help out the child...  Does anyone know a way to help......Melchie

Where do you live, are you in the U.S. or in the Philippines? 

You are correct, this child deserves more support! Is she still legaly married to the father? Did he sign the birth certificate? Officially, the child is a U.S. citizen, right? 

My advice to you is to search around for civil rights activists who work 'pro-bono' (free) for people who are in your sister's position- needing financial support and legal advice. I think the first place to look would be the yellow pages, look for immigration advocates. Start there, even if its not the right phone number, tell them why you need help/assistance and they can point you in the right direction. Don't give up! You are doing yourself a very, very valuable service by helping her in this way! I wish you the best!! 

 
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