Topic : Ending Toxic Friendships

Alright so here is my problem, or situation rather. I had this "friend" who i recently cut off contact with, because of how they started to treat me. It was partially my fault for always trying to "compromise" and work it out, but I finally did draw the line. Anyways, now I'm wondering if it was the right thing to do. Our friendship was very short-lived, barely 2 months, but the impact this person had on me was great and I miss them.  

A bit of a background on this (a tad long, so bear with me) :  

Very shortly ( a matter of days) after we met, he was very flirtatious, nice and saying he wanted to take me out etc... Not a problem.   

However, very soon after that he started inquiring as to why I did certain things, how I took care of myself , not confiding in him about a personal issue i chose not to speak of, and if what I did, didn't fit his "logic" he snubbed me, guilt tripped me , and just plain out got nasty.  Each time something went wrong, such as I didn't flirt back or I questioned his motives (not in a rude way, just in a cautious way since we had literally just met) he thought it was because he is a guy and I was stereotyping him, even after i explained to him my actual reasoning and that  it was nothing personal. He still chose not to "get it." and essentially, I think,  chose to blame  me for his misinterpretation. A few days later th en said we couldn't be friends anymore, because he didn't want that "drama" in his life while ironically at the same time sending me 50 (literally) blank e-mails.   

So anyway, we worked it out and things went really well for a bit ( a bit emphasis on the 'bit' part. I sometimes think my forgiving nature is a magnet for these types of people, and perhaps low self-esteem). We didnt talk for a few days, because of work and the first thing he says to me is to criticize  me about an opinion of mine. When i reacted to what he said, he had a problem with that and accused me of  coping an attitude he didn't deserve and being overly sensitive,that reminded him of his mom and sister which  he found annoying. In short, I could never do anything right. When I was nice, I got pounded, when I stepped up I got pounded. Each thing I did wrong, he was qick to disparage, but refused to take note that he was doing the exact same thing he percevied I to be enaging in, even when i tried to explain otherwise.  

 He was tempermental towards me and even threw abuse I experience growing up in my face . He later on said he regretted saying such things (claiming he did it onyl out of anger), but that was only after i asked him if ever planned on doing so, but refused to for anything else he has said or done since it "wasn't" wrong, and even mocked my feelings a couple of times, just because he was "angry". Once again we "worked" it out, or so I thought. He the got into it with a friend of mine and left me some sarcastic message, whether or not it was directed towards me I dont  know. All i know is 3 days later he once again said we couldn't be friends, only this time sending (literally) 152 messages. That's when I drew the line ( ya, i know took me long enough). I didn't repsond to such a cry for attention and cut him out of my life. I would have inquired as to what his reasoning was, but I didn't want to be run down, yet again. So, I went away silently. He hasn't contacted me since (only been a few weeks, so we shall see).  

Now i find out he is in a relationship with someone, who he has known for a few years and is apparently in love with her.  I guess it semi-hurts, because he chose to treat me like that and apparently treats her so well.I know he has known her longer then I , but I still don't understand what I did to ask for that treatment when I feel I tried my best and gave that former friendship my all. I try to stay postive and I'm a believer in both God and Karma, but it doesn't seem fair that he could treat someone so shity and then be lucky enough to find someone who makes him happy.  

How do I get in my head an accept that I have not lost prince charming, but rather escaped the grasp of someone who isn't good for me.  

Thanks all for your advice!  

I've tried to be friends with this woman (I'm a woman also) for over 15 yrs.  BUT after trying to work the 12 Steps from Emotions Any...... I'm finding it impossible.  I divorced in 1996 and remarried a wonderful man in 2000.  She and I had not spoken for 2/3 yrs. at the time of my marriage because of the filthy mouth of her live-in partner.  They finally broke up, but even though that break-up happened almost a yr. ago, she still wants to go by his house (with me driving- I refused), check up on him, she includes herself in anything my new husband and I are doing (eating out especially - so we'll pay) constantly wants to discuss sex, etc.   

She and I have talked about how inappropriate I feel this topic to be in front of my husband, but she continues.  The last time we had dinner, she ended the evening by kissing him on the mouth and grabbing his butt.  I can't take any more.  I've had enough.  I've talked about inappropriate, trashy behaviour with her til I'm blue in the face.  What do you think? 

I think she has some issues she needs to work out. Sounds to me like she is trying to get attention. Personally, I would tell her I love her and care about her, and will always be there for her, but I cannot help you until you help yourself first. Granted i have done this a time or two and they will be very angry and hurt. Some I have honestky never spoken to again and have heard they are in a far worse position then they were in before. To me that's okay cause I don't think they were a real friend anyway. Now some have come to the realization of what they were doing and got help for it and actually thanked me for being a true friend. Sometimes you have to do what you think is best for you and your family. 

nychicka 

Bonjour Everyone,
I know that it is has been a while since I have been on the boards, but I am being masochistic and taking 18 hrs. of summer school (Italian!). Anyway, I have been chewing on this problem and it seems that all the flavor has gone out and I wanted to get someone else's opinion about what I should do or the advice I should give my best friend.  I sincerely apologize for all the reading that is entailed, but when you get done you will understand why I put it all in here.

First of All a Little History so you know more about the atmosphere (its kinda long so please forgive me but the information is essential I think):

I have said that she should come on here and post because it is very helpful. However, she feels too embarassed to come to the Dr. Phil website! She basically told me that she doesn't like the new-agey, touchy-feely stuff because that was not how she was raised to express herself. Essentially both of her parents told her to live with her lot in life and be thankful to God that she was lucky enough to have even that due to that fact that her life-beginnings were very humble (she was adopted just like me, so I am not exactly sure what they mean...but eh). Expressing her emotions was frowned upon the entire time she was growing up and I really think that this habit is coming back to bite her in the derriere.

I have been friends with "Honey" for 15 years now (since we were both 7) and we have both been through very traumatic upbringings (divorce, abuse etc.). Our abuse histories are different,  and so are the ways in which we chose to deal with them.

For me it was Sex, Drugs and Rock n' Roll-- I became a very hardened, rage-filled partier for about 4 years (6th-10th grade).

Honey on the other hand retreated into her shell and spent most of her time sequestered in her computer room playing online RPG games where she could essentially make-up any reality that she wanted and felt safe there.

We lost touch after 7th grade due to our respective life-style choices-- we wrote letters about twice a year (we lived in different cities)

Eventually we both emerged from our self-imposed pits and got in contact more often. I was no longer boozing it up etc. because my mom had told me that it was about time that I cleaned up or shipped out...she didn't want to kick me out and honestly the realization that she almost had no choice (due to the fact that I was essentially endangering my family with my behavior) scared me so much that the shock forced me to deal with the fact that my future really depended on kicking the lifestyle and that I was punishing no one but myself.

Honey, on the other hand had moved up from the cramped computer room stage to an entirely different stage that alarmed me when we talked on the phone. She talked about planning her funeral and told me all about it. I begged her to get out and get some sun-- to go to a dance or two that her christian school was holding and laugh a bit-- essentially I really wanted her to stop curling up with the malevolent thoughts that kept her constantly spiraling up and down.

I told her that she should seek the help of her parents and really tell them what is going on...I had always assumed that her family life was at least adverage if not contented. Both of her parents were doctors and she was never denied anything I could think of materially. They even through her a very lavish Sweet-16 Party that I attended where she invited her whole school. We had a good time, but I had no idea was bubbling under the surface.

She told me that it was all a sham-- that her parents had orchestrated this elaborate ruse for the society pages (yes, those do STILL exist especially for the doctor/lawyer/Advertising set) and that life at home ressembled a war zone rather than the healthy happy family that I had always pictured.

I had always known that her father was harsh with her. However, I never knew that her mother joined in the sadistic bouts with him! Essentially they bullied her and told her that her real mother (her adoptive mother's sister) was a drug-addicted prostitute piece of trash and that they saved her from that life, but not that it really mattered because the quality of her character was such that she was bound to fail and that she was so stupid, unattractive, and lacking in social skills that she should just go live under a bridge while she could!!!!!

This had been going on since she was 12 and she hadn't said a word to me about her daily tormented evenings at the dinner table. I felt so taken back that I just couldn't believe that she didn't reach out to me and ask me for help. I would have asked my mom if she could have come to live with us, shared my room-- you know, all of it if that was the way it was for her.

She told me that she spent the evenings counting out pills on the counter top and calculating based on her age, weight, and various concoctions what would be the least painful way to ingest enough of whatever pill it was that she would just go to sleep and never wake up. I tell you that I was having a royal freakout by this time and I told her that I would tell my parents and that something had to be done (this was in 2002).

She said that if my parents talked to hers that somehow it would all be worse because she wasn't supposed to tell ANYONE about what went on in the house. It was "family business" and private and that even talking to me about it was forbidden. I was stuck-- so I told her that I would tell my mom but we would think about a way of dressing it up so that when she did come out and live with us for a little while that it would be a "vacation" and nothing permanent would be discussed.

Once she got out with me then we could figure out if she would just stay and her parents would have to suck it up.

In the end we agreed that she would come out and visit me at regular intervals until she went to college and that would give her a break from all of it. That is what we did.

FAST FORWARD TO SUMMER 2004:

Honey had bounced from college to college--- essentially she couldn't decide what she wanted to major in and her parents kept telling her that she would do what they wanted (i.e. medicine) or they wouldn't pay for anything and she would be on her own-- essentially disowned from the family. That scared her more than anything so she tried and tried and tried.

Then things started going south.

This rocked my foundation to the core—we had just re-discovered each other and gotten used to living so close the past year. It made me angry too—but there was absolutely nothing anyone could do…Honey needed the help and approval I guess—security…I don’t really know—of her mother and she had grown so jealous that she said that it was starting to really hurt her inside.

I had already applied to study for the year in Paris, France, . The deal that Honey and I had talked about was I was going for a year, but she would come out to visit me at Christmas (paid for by my scholarship money that I had been saving since 2002 as a special treat for both of us) for a whole month.  Now I was leaving and she was leaving and going in completely different directions (both geographically and life-situation wise).  I left in September from the Houston Airportwhere Honey came to see me off—I was so torn—I was going to live my dream, but I had no idea when I would see my best friend in the whole world, the girl who was like a sister to me—again.  I thought about her and her life—how much I loved her for the entire 8 hours of my flight.

 
SUMMER 2006 (PRESENT)

In the end, things have worked out rather well. I am actually surprised at the outcome.

Honey and I have both had productive lives apart. I am done with University and travel constantly between Paris, and Austin, TX. She has found a successful job working at a hospital in the computer services, and food-services depts… To add to this she has met and fallen in love with a nice boy named Ed.

They plan to get married soon but there are a number of problems that she says that are brewing now:

1.)   Her potential sister in-law HATES her! “Cyndy” has an online blog in which she openly references my best friend as “stupid, annoying girl” . She also always makes snide comments about Honey in Ed’s presence. Honey is used to getting put down so she doesn’t say anything and Ed doesn’t seem to realize the catty situation that has developed between them.

2.)   Honey’s parents have openly disapproved of Ed because he doesn’t have a college degree and they threaten to excommunicate Honey if she goes through with plans to marry him

3.)   Ed says that he wants to marry Honey “soon” but she has been waiting over a year after she moved in with him (with the belief that they would marry soon) and he keeps telling her “don’t get your hopes up” or something like that despite the fact that he keeps telling her he wants to propose to her, and that with the sister situation that she is “not going anywhere”.

My problem that I need advice on is that she asks me what she should do about Cyndy, her parents and how to deal with Ed—and I have told her the following—I need to know if I am on base here or not:

1.)   Cyndy is jealous of the attention that Honey gets from Ed…that’s all. She is immature and hateful and that she should sit down and talk with Cyndy to at least come to terms about being civil

2.)   Her parents will never be satisfied with whoever she brings home, befriends or anything else…they are bent on being miserable and bring her down so she should simply do what she feels is right and if they excommunicate her then what she really missing out on? In my opinion not much!

3.)   She should tell Ed that he should propose, give her a time estimate and/or quit dangling carrots in front of her. I worry that he is keeping her on a leash of potential marriage just so that he can get all the benefits without any of the responsibilities. I have never met Ed, but I just think it is a little cruel to keep someone in suspense about when and IF the marriage will ever occur.

Honey gets so depressed with it all and she feels so isolated that I wonder if she is really happy. She says she as happy as she could expect to be, but I am not really sure what that means. I could really use some advice because I really do love her with all my heart. I want nothing but the best in life for my Honey Bee (hence the SN I gave her in this post) and I just hate it that I am so far away and I can’t really DO anything for her from here except give advice and listen. I just hope that I am giving the right advice, you know?

Sincerely, and Respectfully:
Parisienne

Bonjour Everyone,
I know that it is has been a while since I have been on the boards, but I am being masochistic and taking 18 hrs. of summer school (Italian!). Anyway, I have been chewing on this problem and it seems that all the flavor has gone out and I wanted to get someone else's opinion about what I should do or the advice I should give my best friend.  I sincerely apologize for all the reading that is entailed, but when you get done you will understand why I put it all in here.

First of All a Little History so you know more about the atmosphere (its kinda long so please forgive me but the information is essential I think):

I have said that she should come on here and post because it is very helpful. However, she feels too embarassed to come to the Dr. Phil website! She basically told me that she doesn't like the new-agey, touchy-feely stuff because that was not how she was raised to express herself. Essentially both of her parents told her to live with her lot in life and be thankful to God that she was lucky enough to have even that due to that fact that her life-beginnings were very humble (she was adopted just like me, so I am not exactly sure what they mean...but eh). Expressing her emotions was frowned upon the entire time she was growing up and I really think that this habit is coming back to bite her in the derriere.

I have been friends with "Honey" for 15 years now (since we were both 7) and we have both been through very traumatic upbringings (divorce, abuse etc.). Our abuse histories are different,  and so are the ways in which we chose to deal with them.

For me it was Sex, Drugs and Rock n' Roll-- I became a very hardened, rage-filled partier for about 4 years (6th-10th grade).

Honey on the other hand retreated into her shell and spent most of her time sequestered in her computer room playing online RPG games where she could essentially make-up any reality that she wanted and felt safe there.

We lost touch after 7th grade due to our respective life-style choices-- we wrote letters about twice a year (we lived in different cities)

Eventually we both emerged from our self-imposed pits and got in contact more often. I was no longer boozing it up etc. because my mom had told me that it was about time that I cleaned up or shipped out...she didn't want to kick me out and honestly the realization that she almost had no choice (due to the fact that I was essentially endangering my family with my behavior) scared me so much that the shock forced me to deal with the fact that my future really depended on kicking the lifestyle and that I was punishing no one but myself.

Honey, on the other hand had moved up from the cramped computer room stage to an entirely different stage that alarmed me when we talked on the phone. She talked about planning her funeral and told me all about it. I begged her to get out and get some sun-- to go to a dance or two that her christian school was holding and laugh a bit-- essentially I really wanted her to stop curling up with the malevolent thoughts that kept her constantly spiraling up and down.

I told her that she should seek the help of her parents and really tell them what is going on...I had always assumed that her family life was at least adverage if not contented. Both of her parents were doctors and she was never denied anything I could think of materially. They even through her a very lavish Sweet-16 Party that I attended where she invited her whole school. We had a good time, but I had no idea was bubbling under the surface.

She told me that it was all a sham-- that her parents had orchestrated this elaborate ruse for the society pages (yes, those do STILL exist especially for the doctor/lawyer/Advertising set) and that life at home ressembled a war zone rather than the healthy happy family that I had always pictured.

I had always known that her father was harsh with her. However, I never knew that her mother joined in the sadistic bouts with him! Essentially they bullied her and told her that her real mother (her adoptive mother's sister) was a drug-addicted prostitute piece of trash and that they saved her from that life, but not that it really mattered because the quality of her character was such that she was bound to fail and that she was so stupid, unattractive, and lacking in social skills that she should just go live under a bridge while she could!!!!!

This had been going on since she was 12 and she hadn't said a word to me about her daily tormented evenings at the dinner table. I felt so taken back that I just couldn't believe that she didn't reach out to me and ask me for help. I would have asked my mom if she could have come to live with us, shared my room-- you know, all of it if that was the way it was for her.

She told me that she spent the evenings counting out pills on the counter top and calculating based on her age, weight, and various concoctions what would be the least painful way to ingest enough of whatever pill it was that she would just go to sleep and never wake up. I tell you that I was having a royal freakout by this time and I told her that I would tell my parents and that something had to be done (this was in 2002).

She said that if my parents talked to hers that somehow it would all be worse because she wasn't supposed to tell ANYONE about what went on in the house. It was "family business" and private and that even talking to me about it was forbidden. I was stuck-- so I told her that I would tell my mom but we would think about a way of dressing it up so that when she did come out and live with us for a little while that it would be a "vacation" and nothing permanent would be discussed.

Once she got out with me then we could figure out if she would just stay and her parents would have to suck it up.

In the end we agreed that she would come out and visit me at regular intervals until she went to college and that would give her a break from all of it. That is what we did.

FAST FORWARD TO SUMMER 2004:

Honey had bounced from college to college--- essentially she couldn't decide what she wanted to major in and her parents kept telling her that she would do what they wanted (i.e. medicine) or they wouldn't pay for anything and she would be on her own-- essentially disowned from the family. That scared her more than anything so she tried and tried and tried.

Then things started going south.

This rocked my foundation to the core—we had just re-discovered each other and gotten used to living so close the past year. It made me angry too—but there was absolutely nothing anyone could do…Honey needed the help and approval I guess—security…I don’t really know—of her mother and she had grown so jealous that she said that it was starting to really hurt her inside.

I had already applied to study for the year in Paris, France, . The deal that Honey and I had talked about was I was going for a year, but she would come out to visit me at Christmas (paid for by my scholarship money that I had been saving since 2002 as a special treat for both of us) for a whole month.  Now I was leaving and she was leaving and going in completely different directions (both geographically and life-situation wise).  I left in September from the Houston Airportwhere Honey came to see me off—I was so torn—I was going to live my dream, but I had no idea when I would see my best friend in the whole world, the girl who was like a sister to me—again.  I thought about her and her life—how much I loved her for the entire 8 hours of my flight.

 
SUMMER 2006 (PRESENT)

In the end, things have worked out rather well. I am actually surprised at the outcome.

Honey and I have both had productive lives apart. I am done with University and travel constantly between Paris, and Austin, TX. She has found a successful job working at a hospital in the computer services, and food-services depts… To add to this she has met and fallen in love with a nice boy named Ed.

They plan to get married soon but there are a number of problems that she says that are brewing now:

1.)   Her potential sister in-law HATES her! “Cyndy” has an online blog in which she openly references my best friend as “stupid, annoying girl” . She also always makes snide comments about Honey in Ed’s presence. Honey is used to getting put down so she doesn’t say anything and Ed doesn’t seem to realize the catty situation that has developed between them.

2.)   Honey’s parents have openly disapproved of Ed because he doesn’t have a college degree and they threaten to excommunicate Honey if she goes through with plans to marry him

3.)   Ed says that he wants to marry Honey “soon” but she has been waiting over a year after she moved in with him (with the belief that they would marry soon) and he keeps telling her “don’t get your hopes up” or something like that despite the fact that he keeps telling her he wants to propose to her, and that with the sister situation that she is “not going anywhere”.

My problem that I need advice on is that she asks me what she should do about Cyndy, her parents and how to deal with Ed—and I have told her the following—I need to know if I am on base here or not:

1.)   Cyndy is jealous of the attention that Honey gets from Ed…that’s all. She is immature and hateful and that she should sit down and talk with Cyndy to at least come to terms about being civil

2.)   Her parents will never be satisfied with whoever she brings home, befriends or anything else…they are bent on being miserable and bring her down so she should simply do what she feels is right and if they excommunicate her then what she really missing out on? In my opinion not much!

3.)   She should tell Ed that he should propose, give her a time estimate and/or quit dangling carrots in front of her. I worry that he is keeping her on a leash of potential marriage just so that he can get all the benefits without any of the responsibilities. I have never met Ed, but I just think it is a little cruel to keep someone in suspense about when and IF the marriage will ever occur.

Honey gets so depressed with it all and she feels so isolated that I wonder if she is really happy. She says she as happy as she could expect to be, but I am not really sure what that means. I could really use some advice because I really do love her with all my heart. I want nothing but the best in life for my Honey Bee (hence the SN I gave her in this post) and I just hate it that I am so far away and I can’t really DO anything for her from here except give advice and listen. I just hope that I am giving the right advice, you know?

Sincerely, and Respectfully:
Parisienne

If your "friend" is having problems in many relationships then I would say you have her pretty well figured out.  If it was just you, I would be writing a totally different response.  This is not about you....she obviously is a very negative person and most likely quite insecure.  So she reacts by putting other people down thinking that doing this makes her look better.  Obviously it doesn't.  People, including you see right through her.  People know that if she is putting everyone else down, then guess what?  As soon as they leave, who is she going to talk about and put down next? 

It also seems that this person can't take any constructive criticism.  If you tried to tell her gently that she is putting people down, I don't know what more you could have done,.  You tried in the nicest way possible to help her and she returned the favor by snapping at you in front of others and then giving a half hearted aoplogy, if you can even call it one, adding that you had annoyed her. 

So you have your answer.  If it walks like a duck.......and she is definitely showing her true colors...I would end this toxic friendship.  It is up to you if you want to tell her why, but I would wager that she is above criticism and will not listento anything you say about how negative and vicious she is.  Good luck and let us know what happens.