Topic : Ending Toxic Friendships

Thank you for that!  At least you seem to know where I am coming from, and I agree.  I don't think I am obligated to be friends with someone I am paying for a service. 

I can board my cats.  It will cost me a few $ more per day and it's not even an inconvenience to get them to the vet, since I pass by them on my way out of town.  They are old cats and it would simply be easier on them if I didn't have to board them. 

Like I said, my problem was how to let her know in a nice way I am not interested in a friendship, only to hire her when I need her.  I certainly don't think I am using her when I am paying her. 

Debby:

You know I will tell you like it is.  I’ve not always done that with you, I didn’t want to hurt your feelings.  But over the last few days I have found you have no regard for any other person’s feelings other than your own.  I’ve spent several days, actually since August 26th trying to understand and figure out why you need to lie to the extreme extent you do.  (no, I am not even pretending I am any angle, not even close)  Consider this my declaration to stop enabling or tolerating your disgusting behavior that you unleash on those you call your friends.  I have researched Habitual Liars and Compulsive Liars and below is what I have found:

I’ve sat and heard you lie, and have even commented on it when you got off the phone.  I’ve seen you do the complete personality change from rage to sugar would melt in your mouth at the flick of a switch.

I’ve sat in a car and heard you lie to Cassandra and not bat an eye.  I’m sure it’s been the same with her.  I’ve witnessed lies from complete fabricated stories and events to what you had for breakfast. 

Last year when you were on a roll I asked someone if you had always done this, it was confirmed that you had.  It was at that time I really started to take note of all the lies.  From that point on I started checking on things you would tell me.  I could list page after page of all the lies you told me. 

“Some black friends of mine are coming in this weekend and have a beautiful home on Pleasant Valley road.  They have a house here and in the east.  They are super rich, could pay cash for a million dollar home if they wanted.  You should come out this weekend and go swimming when they get in.” (needless to say, you never called) 

After Cassandra and David actually moved here and I was talking to Cassandra one day.  That was when I realized how big you could spin your tales. 

You had lead me to believe that you guys had been friends for years, that they were so ‘upscale” and had two homes and blah blah blah.  It was all lies, Debby.  Yes they know of the tale you told.  We’ve all known it was a lie for about a year now.  But we loved you anyway. 

I just don’t understand what your reasoning would be to lie to me of all people.  I also don’t understand why you call Cassandra and David your friends, yet talk about the filth you think they live in and the damage they are doing to their home, or the damn pool at the farm.  Why the hell do you care??  I can not believe how naïve I was to think you were not running me into the ground as you do them.  You swing a heavy axe into the backs of those you call your friends.

Then I let my guard down.  Listening to you.  Knowing deep inside everything thing you would say was more likely a lie than the truth.  But I loved you anyway.  You were my sister, or so I thought. 

I watched you manipulate Julie Crowe and especially Carol Ann.  I was witness to you doing your best to come between those two, long before the “incident”.  I didn’t understand it but accepted it. 

I watched as you would pump Carol Ann for information to do nothing more than to spread whatever she told you.  Much was extremely personal.  You did the exact same thing to Julie McCormick.  I don’t know why it didn’t dawn on me you would do the exact same to me.  I guess because you made me feel like I was really special to you. 

I have sat across the table from you and tell a story that I knew was not close to the real story and said nothing.  I enabled you.  I regret that very much. 

I have watched you plant seeds, stage events and then go in for the kill in your business and personal life.  You are cunning and extremely intelligent.  I have come to learn any and all actions you take is nothing more than a setting for manipulation on the horizon.

Then this summer came.  Holli noticed sometime just before the 4th of July that we hardly heard from Cassandra and David or Candy.  I chalked it up to all the drama going on in your life.  I would ask you about them and you would tell me that you hardly heard from Cassandra or that you talked to her the other day and she was in a funk.  I made the mistake of letting you be the single source of my contact with them.  She made the same mistake. 

You lead her to believe that Steve and I were having problems of some sort and I was angry all year.  You would never be specific.  You would dissuade her from calling me to check in.  Debby, you did this, there is no need to pretend you didn’t.  When she brought this up to me, David was there and confirmed you lead them to believe this.  Yet, when I confronted you about it, right in front of Cassandra, you still continued to LIE!  Blatantly LIE!  That is when I knew I could never trust you again. 

Her mouth fell open as did mine.  You even compounded the lie.  Debby, I had spoke with Cassandra many time the day you made the story up about calling her and that she told you she asked me what was wrong with Steve and I because she figured I must be mad about something or I would have come over to do her porch.  Debby, that was a complete fabrication.  She did not tell you that.  You called her alright, but that is not what she told you.  Later that day, I called you and bluntly asked you about that story again, and you swore that is what she said.  (be careful about doing that kind of thing, with 3-way calling Cassandra could have very well been on the line listening to you lie). I gave you every opportunity to come clean and you failed.  You took your lie and involved Cassandra in the explanation of it.  What kind of friend is that??? 

How many times did you tell me the line of BS about what you guys did on the 4th of July?  You never could tell me that you and everyone including the dogs piled in on Cassandra and David at the farm.  I gave you several chances to see if you would tell me the actual truth and you NEVER could do it.  Why did you feel it was something to lie about?  Why did you do your best to keep me as far away from our group this summer as possible?

You would tell me story after story and NEVER mention that your sister Becky was in anyway close to this place.  Yet, event after event was happening.  I wasn’t even allowed to know that I could come over to Cassandra’s for coffee.  You kept me thinking she didn’t want to see anyone and was not very sociable all year.  WHY?

You would tell me it was you and Sarah doing this or that, and NEVER mention Becky.  It was you and Sarah that ruined David and Cassandra’s trip to Mississippi over watering the ferns and the alarm going off.  You stopped by to tell me how wonderful Cassandra’s hair looked and I should come over to see it.  You told me several times you did her hair and it looked so good.  You NEVER mentioned Becky being the real person to do it.

I have racked my brain trying to figure out why you have acted like a 7 year old.  I have come up with nothing.  However, I noticed several similarities in the Carol Ann and Julie Crowe relationship. 

To add to your unhealthy and unacceptable behavior, you started hurting Holli’s feelings.  We let this go on 2 weeks too long.  You started acting even more childish.  Wanting your picture first, (how childish) no reference to going to www.holligrubb.com to see the virtual tour.  Even though she spent HOURS working on it.  You started getting Martha to do things for you like you used to do.  You began redoing everything Holli had done.  Basically removing her “scent” from things you guys had done together.  She noticed it and you were sending your message very clearly. 

THEN, you tried to get by with not including her with the Lexington Avenue listing.  Did you think you could sneak that by her?  She is NOT stupid. 

I again gave you a chance to explain your behavior and during 3 questions you lied on each answer:

Q: Is Holli on that Lexington Avenue Listing, you told her since she was sick you would just sign her name to the listing agreement.

A: I don’t know

Q: She’s not on the listing agreement.

A: Yes, she is. Just look on the computer.

Q: She did.  And it’s under your MLS number only.  She is not on there at all.  Even the description says to call you only.

A: Well, she’s not even met the people. (duh!  Wonder why that is.  You even had a second appointment with them on Thursday and you didn’t even mention to her anything about attending) She is going to get a referral fee.

I just don’t know what kind of relationship/friendship I could have with a person who lies to me with every breath and would treat my child they way you did.  This letter is not intended as a warning, just a cleansing.  However, if you EVER do anything to hurt or cause damage to my child it will not go unnoticed!  I have spent the last several days recapping, recalling and journaling every thing I know you have done to those you say you care about.  You have awoke a sleeping giant so to speak.  What you did to me is one thing, but you mess with my child and fury will be unleashed beyond your comprehension.

Two more days have passed since you were confronted on the Lexington Avenue listing and you have not corrected the listing agreement.  YOUR LACK OF CORRECTIVE ACTION CONFIRMS IT WAS NOT MISTAKE AND WAS A DILIBERATE ACT.

If I was to hurt your son or say Maggie how would you feel?  Angry?  Outraged?  Vengeful?  Me, I’m disappointed in you.  Holli said to me the other day that she felt bad because she at one time looked up to you.  She thought we were family.  How many times did you come off as being her other mom?  She is three times the person you will ever be.  You didn’t have to stab her in the back, Debby.  Nor did you have to invent story lines about me. 

What I question is:
What was your motivation? 
What end did you expect? 
What other wild stories have you told about me personally and to whom?
Do you know the difference between truth and tale?
Is the behavior why your relationships are short lived?
Why do you not want anyone in your house anymore?  (what is going on in there?)
Have you ever or are you going to try and get some help with this lying problem?
Do you enjoy the havoc you inflict on other?
How many others know the depth of this problem?
Do you always abuse friends in this manner?
Why do you take so much and give so little to a friendship?
Why do you think you always have to run the show, be the boss, tell everyone what to do.  Done to the point of what furniture they should buy for their home.  I’ve seen inside the rooms you keep the doors shut tight on, Debby they are disgusting.  Junk everywhere! 
Why do you put on the plastic façade, when none of it’s real?  Narcissism?
(I thought maybe when you read that info you want about Becky you would recognize yourself in there somewhere)
Do you think everyone is to meet your standards or are only there to please you??
Why can you not do something for other that is just from the heart?
Have you ever sought help with your out of control shopping, especially clothes.  I’ve seen it all.  Racks and Racks and Racks of clothes.  Your bed piled high with them, every closet packed full.  Where do you sleep?  On the floor still?
Why do you feel like you should be the good parent police?  You seem to know how terribly Carol Ann and Cassandra raise their children, but mother of the year, you ARE NOT!  It is a subject of humor when your name and children are mentioned together.   Are you jealous of your friend’s relationships with their children?  

What I do know is that I have been a good, faithful and reliable friend to you.  I have given much more that I have taken.  I have dropped everything to come to your rescue.  You have done little to contribute.  In fact if you do one tiny meaningless thing for someone you call a friend, you lay a guilt trip on them for it.  You would not even leave a message from me to Angie when I needed medication!!!!

You used to ask me over for coffee, but in reality you wanted me to take you somewhere, pack your damn mulch home, paint your porch, put something you bought together and on and on.  On occasion you would offer to help me paint.  You didn’t do anything constructive to help.  All you did was go back over anything I had done and piddle with it for hours.  Even the one day you helped at Roxanne’s when Steve had surgery.  You did nothing but talk to Roxanne all day.  The only thing I can think of that you ever did that help my work day move along was painting one closet.  That was it, and that was just one time.  I also know you have told how you send me all kinds of business and you and I know that is not true.  I’ve only did two houses that you had listed.  How many years have I known you?

I can no longer be a friend to you this way.  I do not trust you.  I do not believe anything no matter how trivial it is that you say.  I do not take all your drama very seriously anymore since you exaggerate or create .

If you ever decide to change your behavior and prove you are worthy of my friendship, give me a call.  Until then, you are on your own.  Find someone else to use and abuse.  You will wake everyday wishing you had me or Holli to call upon for assistance, and guess what?  You no longer have that luxury. 

You said you wrote Carol Ann a letter such as this when she was hounding you with her problems. (if you did or not is unknown, since it was probably a lie) This is my letter to you.  This is an inventory of our friendship and it’s piss pour isn’t it. 

Good luck to you.  Also let this also be known, your presence will not stop me from visiting Cassandra, Angie, Candy or anyone else we both know.  Do not think that if I stop by and you are there I will just drive on by, that will not happen.  You do not have that kind of power. 

Tuesday September 6, 2005:

Well Debby, today Holli saw that you were having Martha print out some brochures on that Lexington Avenue home listing that you tried to scam Holli out of.  This is so funny, or I think so anyway.  All you got was the MLS sheet with no interior pictures, nor any virtual tour link and a print out of the utilities straight from the utility company site.  What a joke.  Before you fucked over Holli, she would put together a complete booklet, with several pages of full color photos (interior and exterior), the utilities, the MLS and disclosure sheets.  All on specialty paper and bound.  Costing Holli about $4.00 a piece.  Then you would want 10-20 of them.  Holli would deliver what you thought was needed and more.  Now look what you’ve got.  Piss poor as far as I can tell. 

Was it not just last week you were having some kind of psychotic episode over two pictures that had a slight pink cast to them on another listing.  We all know now that was just an excuse for Martha to take as much of Holli off the booklets as possible while Holli was out of town.  (Do you have any idea how petty it was to “want your picture to appear first”?  I thought you were a grown woman?  Aren’t you well over 50 years old?) You didn’t even want a link to her website in the booklet where the virtual tour was located.  Damn, Debby!  Martha isn’t going to spend hours putting first rate information books for you is she?  Looks like you are already suffering.  I thought you had to have every thing so fucking high class.  By the way, you might want to get Holli’s permission to use any and all pictures she took, you know, so there won’t be any copyright infringement.

  December 2, 2005 

Well Debby, you’ve not even slowed down have you.  You have closed on two houses now, the one you screw Holli out of and the one she well deserved ½ of the commission.  All you gave her was a friggin’ referral fee!  Left her holding the bag with all the hours of work done, the full expense of advertising and printing cost!  To date you owe Holli over $2000.00!   

I am trying to end a toxic friendship right now, and I would like some advice from you guys if you would be so kind? 

My story: 

A while back I got to know one of my fiancé's friends and we became good friends very quickly. He, my new friend, had some emotional problems and I helped him out by being a good lisstener and supporter. He had very good values and ideals, more simular to mine than my own fiancé has. But my fiancé started to disslike him since they were both feeling down and none of them had it in them to help the other one out at that time, instead they started to feel like the other one was letting them down. 

This friend is very needy and wants constant reasurance to know that he can trust me and that I care "enough" about him to qualify as a friend at all. He put me to a test once, when he whenever I'd come to visit he'd allways bring difficult topics up just as I had to leave - just to see if I would stay or not. I told him multiple times that I really had to go and when he got angrier and angrier I'd run out of his appartment, scared of his agressions towards me. 

He has told me that if I really cared about him I should have stayed even though I had other places where I had to be, and that I was a stupid moron for not understanding that. He has also told me that I am a great dissapointment to him and the list goes on. He cut me real deep, especially since I was only trying to do my best to support him and at the same time support my fiancé in their hardships and even though they weren't friends anymore. 

He has appologised for this behaviour on several occations, but he still can't decide if he wants to be my friend or not, probably because of trustissues and the fact that he has romantic feelings for me that my fiancé does not aprove of. 

I want him out of our lifes mostly because it hurts my fiancé that I have a friendship with a man who has hurt us both badly and our relationship. But at the same time my friend tries to stay friends with both me and my fiancé in an on/off sort of manner. 

We're affraid that he would take an official ending of our friendship as a declaration of war considering his short temper and passed behaviour. 

He seemed like such a sweet man in the beginning of our friendship, but now he's managed to go against most of his good values! 

Please, any advice would be helpfull! 

This "friend" sounds more like an enemy! 

I think since you are worried if you make an official statement that the friendshipi is over that he will do 'something', that you and your fiance just need to put more and more space between yourselves and this man. When he calls, don't answer, and don't return his messages, either... give him the quiet brush off. This way no new hurts can be caused. When/if you do see this person in passing, you can smile and say "hi" and casually ask him how he is doing, but always keep the topic on HIM. Ask him about his life, whats new, etc.. don't allow him any personal power by giving him information about yourself or your fiance, this will only bring him back into the friendship, or give him a false sence of friendship. 

It sounds like this man is very manipulative, so its best to do this slowly. He 'seemed' so sweet because thats part of his act. A real friend doesn't give you "tests" and then tell you what a failure you are!! A real friend would totally understand that you have places to go and things to do, especially since HE isn't working, you are the one who has stuff to do. He sounds like a class-A jerk. Don't waste any more of your life on this "friend", its not worth it. Life goes on.  

Thank you very much for writing to me, the 'quiet brush off' is working like a charm I must say. But it was actually him who started brushing me off. He has done that before: decided that it's best not to see me anymore because of his romantic feelings towards me, and then he stops talking to me or become just hostile. This time, after his trip to NY, when he returned he didn't speak to me and I realised how very much better I felt when he didn't contact me. 

However, now he has started contacting me again, but I'm doing like you said - I'm giving polite, short answeres to his messages and avoid giving him any information about myself. He can write to me all he wants, but I'm holding him to his own decicion this time, he's not getting back in! 

Again, thank you very much! 

I am a married woman, and had an affair with another married woman.  She told her husband about us....everything.  She said she wanted to be with me, then changed her mind.  Her husband did extensive "surveillance" to see where she was going, when she was seeing me....and going so far as taping our conversations.  She has since told me that she has decided to be with him...but remain friends with me.  However, we don't have a healthy friend relationship.  She will not see me, she does call me weekly, tells me her heart belongs to me, but is vague with me now about everyday affairs.  Some days, she says she will call me and does not, and is vague about why she didn't call.  I have asked her to consider that it is hurting her husband to keep me, and hurting me to see her slip away, and us not even be able to see each other.  I feel that we cannot have a healthy friendship, even though she wants to remain "friends".    

My question is....should I end things?  I am hurting deeply.  I am still in love with her, but I feel like I am growing bitter towards her as I feel her keep me at arm's length, but still try to hang on to me for the good things I say and do for her.  What should I do?  

 I'm sixteen years old and find myself surrounded by groups of girls who are nothing but pseudo-friends to one another. they're faker than plastic to each others face and turn around and talk badly about the same person they were just so sweet to. I find it extremely hard to form friendships with girls because everytime in the last year that i have tried to welcome a new girl or continue friendships with other girls i've gotten stabbed in the back for it. i continue to be loyal and kind and get treated like crap because of it. When a situation arises that should be handled maturely they don't understand this and blow it out of proportion like little drama queens in training.The group of girls that live around me seem to always start rumors and problems with me when i've done nothing to them. I think it's becuase it's easy for people to be mad at me, even though i don't know why that is. Besides not caring about them or their petty drama, i need some support or the know how to form friendships that will last. 

At this time there are two friends I am considering letting go. 

Friend A : Was calling me 2x per week and at times when I was "helping" her with her issues she would get several calls on the other line and would ask me to hold. No problem, so she would return and I would say "So who was that" She would reply, " That was so and so, I called five people before I called you and now they are all calling me back, I was in a panic and I needed to talk to someone." So I was available to talk through her latest crises. She has a therapist but she has not been available so I have been stand in therapist. We've discussed low-self esteem, assertiveness, and victim issues. We have even discussed another situation with a friend of mine who was not quick on answering my phone calls or emails. Known her for 3 years. She called me last week of the year and wanted to do something with me. (she usually invites herself) And wanted to come with my husband and I and another friend to dinner on NYE. She calls 1 hour before we are to leave and says she is too tired to come and has paperwork and shopping to do the next day so she can't come. She then asked me if I wanted to "schedule" something with her now for next week to do something with her. Yeh right Like I am going to want to do something with her after that. I said I didn't know what my "schedule" was and that I would have to think about it. She then said she could come over and hang out before we left. I said that would not be necessary and we wouldn't have enough time for that. she then pathetically said, Sorreee -  

Two weeks later I go to a mutual friends house and she tells me Friend A has invited her to her own bible study at her house. Now she had told me about this but never officially invited me. I have since sent her an email but have not had a response in four days. I think she is not responding because she knows how I don't like people not responding to me by email. The more I think about this she is trying to hurt me for some reason. I'm not sure if she feels so inferior to me that she has to try and get back at me because she does not feel equal to me. People who feel inferior think everyone must possible have something against them.. Victim mentality. I really do not want to assume what her problem is, but I don't have much to go on. She usually calls me 2x per week and now I haven't heard from her in two weeks. Perhaps her therapist is back in town........ 

Friend B - of five years- sporadic friendship- maybe talk once a month. The Seller phenomenon. 

Recently was invited to her house for six different vendors who were selling a variety of things. Her whole house was set up like a flea market. Has not invited me to do things with her lately but has no problem trying to get me in on a network marketing scheme. 4 emails were exchanged on this topic which I find destroys a friendship because you never know if they are being nice to you because they want to or if they are looking for a time when they can sell you something. 

Looking to get out of this one- girl has no morals or values and I feel like I am paying for her 500,000 house buy contributing to the sales force. Very disappointing - thought she was different. 

so I figure I gotta let these go to discover much more meaningful relationships. Anyone have friends like A/B? I think I am making the right choices here, it justs hurt to let them go but I think in the long run I am preventing worse situations......................Penelope 

I would recommend reading Dr Phil's books --FAMILY and SELF matters. You will find yourself and learn that some things are just unacceptable and damaging to you as a person and to others. That is, if you can accept the acts you describe here while trying to rationalize that you are in love is totally totally selfish. .