Topic : Ending Toxic Friendships

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Created on : Thursday, July 07, 2005, 09:20:14 am
Author : dataimport
It can be hard to extricate yourself from a friendship gone bad. Share your stories and strategies for handling this sticky situation.

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August 3, 2006, 11:09 am PDT

I can relate

Quote From: callrachel

I have known J for 20 years. She's funny, artistically very talented, and has been a good friend to me and to my husband, as we have been to them. About a year ago, I took up a particular artistic pursuit, and although J and her husband didn't have the funds for her to participate, she really wanted to take the class, and we arranged that J's husband would do some renovations for us, and we would pay for her to take the class.  We didn't have much money at that time (or now, for that matter), but it seemed a reasonable way to say thanks for J's husband's help, which I know he would have happily given for free.  Both J and I really enjoyed the class, and both decided to continue on. 

Long story short, although J has brought a high level of creativity to her work in this medium, she hasn't attained the same level of skill that I have. I'm not tremendously creative, but I've mastered the mechanics of the work quite well, to the point that our instructor has invited me to be (the most junior) part of his "build team" for creating his own work.

Six weeks ago, J and I were both given the opportunity to attend a workshop in another city. I booked a hotel room, and offered to share it with her; she refused very ungraciously, staying in college residence for about what the shared room would have cost. While we were there, she was quite cool to me, and refused my offers to work with her, though I solicited her help and both sought and accepted her advice on some of my pieces, J was scathing about my apparent desire to "go home with a lot of product".  I actually don't think there's anything wrong with product; I have sales for some of my pieces, and that in part has offset my costs in this medium. 

I'm hurt by her behaviour, and although I'm trying to realize it's not necessarily about me, it's hard not to take it personally. I value the friendship -- am I a chump?

The other person being discussed is not here to defend themselves.......by reading what you've posted it sounds like you're saying your skill is higher though you can acknowledge you're not as artistically inclined. As an artist myself, I can tell you that this is one of the most maddening things one can deal with: watching another person succeed because they're savvy in other ways and knowing that you have a lot of talent but work strictly from a soul perspective.

 

I've had issues before related to that. Friends that admired my artistry but felt inferior to me because they weren't naturals. My response: all people are artists-some tap in, some don't. I have been creating jewelry for a long time and in working with other artisans have noticed a peculiar kind of rivalry/competitiveness that always rears its head and I don't care for it. I taught one girl the basics and she went on to make money and her work is not nearly as professional, beautiful, or creative as mine. But she is a salesperson. Maybe your friend picked up on what you were feeling but not saying (most artists are very perceptive and that's why we tend to be loners)

 

the fact is you can never hang out with someone  more dynamic than you and expect to shine. I may be lonelier but I treasure the true friends I do find that can accept me and applaud my unique journey on this planet.

 
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August 3, 2006, 11:27 am PDT

Don't mistake kindness for weakness.

Quote From: hyphenate

I've always believed that friendships should last as long as people do, because we're all in this together, and there is almost always someone with whom you can bare your soul and always know that you are safe with them. 

  

My "best friend" has gotten herself involved with some stuff with which I completely disagree.  She became involved in a religious cult about seven years ago and has gone to the deep end, and has not been as much of a friend as she has spent more and more time with these people.  She doesn't see them as dangerous as I do, and she has been brainwashed enough at the same time that she follows their precepts to the point of exclusivity of other things.  When her mom passed away last year, she used her newfound "faith" to get her through, but I was there as much as possible for her, to the exclusion of other things in my own life just to make sure she made it through. 

  

Six months ago, she began to correspond with this cult member 500 or so miles away (she's in Massachusetts, he's in Kentucky) and became utterly infatuated with him over that time.  Please understand, she has never met this guy--he just shares her radical views--and yet she announced to me just a few days ago while we were on a trip together, that she was going to marry him when she went down to Kentucky for 10 days to be with him.  There was no advanced warning, other than her 1 hour phone calls to him every single day at least two times a day, and that was about it.  So I got mad with her.  I said she was going to marry a guy she'd only known 6 months just because he believed in the same radical concepts as she did, over listening to the advice of a friend she'd had for over 20 years.  I told her if she married him, she was a fool, and that if she did, it was the end of our friendship completely. 

  

I've felt for some time that our friendship was largely unequal.  While monetarily I was not equal, when I've had money, I've been more than generous, but the main part is for the past 20 years it took a significant effort to maintain a friendship with her, and I was almost always the one who did the work.  I lived away for awhile, but I called several times a week, I wrote, I visited, and at one point, I even paid for her to come and visit me where I was.  I was always the initiator of things, and now, looking back over the course of those years, I find myself wondering where her contribution to the friendship was and not liking what I see in terms of reciprocation. 

  

But now, she has decided her new found cult views are far more important to her life, and that anything outside of that sphere of influence is expendable, even though she doesn't say it out loud.  But after last night, I am done trying to maintain what has become for me something that takes up too much of my precious time and life when I fear there isn't any true friendship coming from the other half of it. 

  

I am not happy I have had to do this, but I fear that it was coming now for some time, and while I have made excuses for her in the past, my own level of energy and health has deteriorated to the point where I can only keep up with those things which keep me going, and don't drag me down. 

  

It is not a pleasant thing to do with someone you care about, but if they are awakened by your pronouncement at all and want to try to save the friendship, it is on your terms, not theirs that such a measure can come about.  Do not accept them back into your life if they are not willing to put the same time and energy into the relationship as you have put into it for the much longer time.  If they try to make it status quo, it is time to say goodbye permanently. 

I recently ended a so-called friendship myself.  Long story short, it is a hard thing to do but then I remind myself that someone who is always competing with me from my artistic abilities to how many other friends I have, calling up to offer advice on a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with me, pulling me into her doctors appointment telling me she needed me to be there for moral support and then turning it around to everyone else saying she did it to TEACH me something, amongst a list of many other things, isn't a friend in the first place.  So then I have to ask myself, "What's MY problem that I would let someone treat me this way in the first place?"  She did the things she did because she knew she COULD.  I let myelf be walked all over and it showed.  Some people mistake kindness for weakness and this is a hard lesson learned.  I know ending the "friendship" was the right thing to do but then why do I continually beat myself up for it?  Dr. Phil would probably ask, "What's your payoff for beating yourself up for this?"   
 
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August 3, 2006, 2:19 pm PDT

don't beat yourself

Quote From: aspena

I recently ended a so-called friendship myself.  Long story short, it is a hard thing to do but then I remind myself that someone who is always competing with me from my artistic abilities to how many other friends I have, calling up to offer advice on a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with me, pulling me into her doctors appointment telling me she needed me to be there for moral support and then turning it around to everyone else saying she did it to TEACH me something, amongst a list of many other things, isn't a friend in the first place.  So then I have to ask myself, "What's MY problem that I would let someone treat me this way in the first place?"  She did the things she did because she knew she COULD.  I let myelf be walked all over and it showed.  Some people mistake kindness for weakness and this is a hard lesson learned.  I know ending the "friendship" was the right thing to do but then why do I continually beat myself up for it?  Dr. Phil would probably ask, "What's your payoff for beating yourself up for this?"   

I ended a friendship too. It was a very good decision. I hear she still asks about me, funny because never asked me anything while we were friends. Most of the time I sat silently while she was on her cell phone. I even saw her steal money from someone and she always cost me money, and told "stories". I am so happy she's gone, don't miss being ignored or used. You will have many friends in your life time. Bad ones should be dumped quickly to open up room for good ones and to save your heart and spirit. Stop beating yourself up, you are in charge of your heart and you need to protect it. You did the right thing.

Best Regards,
Loulou

 
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August 11, 2006, 1:18 pm PDT

going through the same thing

Quote From: crickmar7

I have been friends with Cathy since we were in the 7th grade.  We have talked endlessly about not playing games with people, and being upfront and so on. Lately I noticed that whenever we talked, she would make remarks about people calling back or not doing things as often as she felt they should and so on.   Her oldest daughter has an event coming up.  I inquired as to when it was, and of course would like to be there.  I did advise her at least a week or so ago that I wouldn't be able to attend, I am going out of town.  Nothing was said by her.  I saw her again sometime later, went to a baseball game with the kids all seemed fine.  I called her again and she was very short and snotty.  Called another time, same thing.  Finally I did ask if there was a problem.  She said sort of and proceeded to tell me that she didn't like it that I was not coming to the event for her daughter.  I asked her why she waited so long to tell me she was upset with me, only to find out she has brewing about this and other things.  For instance, I don't call back right away when she calls.  I am doing something with another friend.  I asked her then what she wanted out of our friendship.  She said she didn't know.   I left it with her that I would still like to see the kids now and again.  Help! 

 Hello! I haven't been to this site in years, but I was hoping to get some advice on how to deal with a friend who I just realized is toxic. What's funny is that she too got angry at me for not answering her calls right away or not calling back promptly.  I know it's been a while since you posted this message but I hope everything worked out for the best.
 
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August 11, 2006, 2:08 pm PDT

Ending Toxic Friendships

   Just to update on my neighbor of 8 years, last week- after 3 weeks of not taking her phone calls, she pops up at my house when my mother and I were about to run errands. I asked her what was doing there and her first response was that she had some business to take care of (she had moved accross town with her Mom). Then she said that she came looking for me. We were all talking calmly but I could see the rage on her face. She wanted to flip out on me but held it in because my mom was there. She was very upset that we didn't invite her to join us. As she went back to her car she said "Okay, I'm gonna have to catch up with you". Creeped me out.
 
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August 13, 2006, 12:14 pm PDT

Hi 'birdybird'

Quote From: birdybird

   Just to update on my neighbor of 8 years, last week- after 3 weeks of not taking her phone calls, she pops up at my house when my mother and I were about to run errands. I asked her what was doing there and her first response was that she had some business to take care of (she had moved accross town with her Mom). Then she said that she came looking for me. We were all talking calmly but I could see the rage on her face. She wanted to flip out on me but held it in because my mom was there. She was very upset that we didn't invite her to join us. As she went back to her car she said "Okay, I'm gonna have to catch up with you". Creeped me out.
Yeah this friend sounds a bit creepy to me, too!! its a good thing that your mom was there.
My advice to you is to continue to distance yourself, even though she seems to keep having crisis after crisis-- you dont deserve to have your life and energy sucked out of you from this woman. Have the two of you ever had a confrontation at all? Or are you always trying to calm her, tell her what she wants to hear, and hope that she will go away? If she continues to drop by unannounced like this, its time to have the much needed, and much dreaded, talk with her. I had to do this years ago, it was difficult.
My friend had the ability to suck the life right out of me, after listening to her tales of being victimized over and over, I was exhausted. After years of this, I finally realized that  she actually made herself a victim in her life. She called me over and over, kept leaving messages, the first ones were fine- they were like this: hey, its me- call me when you get a chance. then they turned into creepy ones, like this yeah its me. I know Im just sh*t to you, but if you could spare a few moments, please call me. then it went to this: everything Ive done for youand you treat me like thisyou tell mewhat did I do to deserve this! (while crying) This was over approx. 3 or 4 days- not weeks or months. I called her and I remained calm and rational the whole time, I started out with this: I feel like we need to put some distance between us, sometimes I just need quiet time with my family, and and then she started yelling, crying, screaming that I was evil, I used her all these years- which wasnt true, there was nothing to use -- it was an accusation purely made up. I was quiet while she raged, then when there was a quiet second I said, well, I think we should talk again once you are more calm. and I hung up. She called back right away, I didnt answer- she left obscene messages, over and over. I realized she was even more psycho than I thought! The next day, when I knew she wasnt home, I left a message saying to her, please dont contact me for 1 month. One month later, she sent me a long letter, which basically said what a victim she has been, all of her life, blah blah blah I was so tired of hearing this by then. I didnt write back, never called her. About a year later, she sent another long letter saying the same stuff, but this time she said that everyone changes, please give me another chance to be your friend. Ugh! Again I didnt respond. I knew that if I did, even just saying no, I cant give you a chance, that she would LOVE to get that letter because then she would have actual proof that I was victimizing her. I wouldnt give her that satisfaction.
There are people in the world who thrive off of misery. My friend never had any intention of seeking happiness or joy for herself, and its sad, because she deserved it. Im convinced that she has an anti-social personality disorder or something. Anyway- back to your situation- I urge you to do the same thing that I did. Dont give her the pleasure of going on and on about how terrible of a life she has had- just say, we shouldnt be talking while you are so upset, call me in one month.. or something like that. I wish you the best of luck with this situation, keep us updated on the message board.
 
 
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August 15, 2006, 3:01 pm PDT

Toxic Friendships

Like many of you, I have a friendship that is toxic. I have known this "friend" for about four years, but we didn't become anything more than acquaintances until this past year or so. I really like this person, as he is fun to be around and has a very funny personality. Unfortunately, he isn't a very good friend.

       This past summer, both of us joined a group from school and went to Europe. We seemed to get along very well  in Europe and spent a lot of time around each other and with one other person who happened to be one of my "friend's" best friends. While at times I felt like the odd one out, it was understandable because I was not as good of friends with either one of them and we still all got along very well.

       Well, shortly after I got back, my mother died and it was obviously a very painful experience. My "friend" called to offer his condolences and invited me to do something with him (this was about 2 days afterward). Because I felt it was a little too soon to be doing those things, I declined, but thanked him anyway.

      After a week or so I started calling him about every other day or so, and we would occasionally "hang out," but often times he would say he was "tired" or didn't feel like doing anything. It was only about a month ago that I realized that I was the one always doing the calling and that he seemed to usually have an excuse not to hang out with me. He called me one time this summer on his own, and once again recently  only because he needed help with summer reading shortly before school started. I flipped out on him and told him no and actually felt bad afterward.

     I guess what I was wondering is, what should I do in this case. I realize this is not a productive friendship and I'm putting in way more than I'm getting out of it. While I do enjoy the time we spend together, it isn't worth the stress worrying about the friendship. I just don't know how to end it--for some reason I have the desire to make him feel bad about the way he's treated me or at least show him what he's missing. I know I probably shouldn't feel this way, but I just don't know how to help it.

 
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August 15, 2006, 10:54 pm PDT

Was this a toxic friendship?

 Hi everyone! Just wanted to share my recent experience in ending a toxic friendship. I was friends with this person for about three and a half years. A year ago I went to visit family in another state for a few months and during that time my grandmother who raised me passed away. When I came back from my trip, my friend wanted to hang out and I felt I wasn't ready to do much yet. I was still in the  "shock" stage of grieving. After about a week my friend started saying crude one liners and sending  mean emails saying that she was mad at me for not answering my phone right away or not calling her back immediately. I didn't know what to do. I was still hurting from the loss of my grandmother and felt emotionally numb.  I apologized to my friend for making her feel like I was ignoring her and left it at that. Months later we went to lunch and I told her that her mean remarks and emails really hurt my feelings. Her excuse was that they were having money problems at the time and she was stressed out. I told her that everybody goes through difficult situations and that was okay, but it is never okay to treat people poorly because of them. She then started crying and the conversation  basically ended there. Our friendship has gone downhill since then and it was not until recently that I had the words to tell her how I've been feeling. Below is what I had written in a letter and her response.  Please keep in mind that my husband and I have been trying to get pregnant for about a year.

(letter to friend)- I do not want this to rain on your parade with the good news of being pregnant but this has been on my mind for a while. I was planning on talking to you in person but felt it would be easier to get my thoughts across on paper. I was surprised to receive your email asking what happened to our friendship. I thought I was clear when we talked over lunch but apparently not. Having my grandmother pass away was by far the most painful experience I've ever gone through and to have you jump down my throat when I got back made things that much more devastating. I feel that friends are those you can count on especially in times of need and in my time of need you just cut me down with your crude remarks and bitchy emails. You haven't been the person I remember being close friends with. So now, if you want to be a friend, be a friend and understand that it will take time for me to trust you again. 

(her response)-
i dont remember jumping down your throat at any time. and about your grandmother passing away you know i dont know what to say about stuff like that to comfort anybody. and how did i ever lose your trust what did i do? and i find it kind of shitty that you cant even tell me congrads and you call yourself a friend???? and how are we going to become better friends if you dont want to hang out??? or for that matter talk to me!!!! so i guess our friend ship has come to an end!!! good luck in life and the best to you!!!

Is it just me or was this friendship toxic and I didn't realize it until now?
 
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August 15, 2006, 11:07 pm PDT

You're not alone

Quote From: tutie615

I ended a toxic frienship a few months ago because I felt my fiance and I were being taken for granted.  Our phone only rang when this couple needed something.  Also, if we were at the movies with this couple, one of them was constantly texting other friends, and if we were at a restaurant, they were constantly on their cell phones.  I just had enough and ended our friendship.  

  

What I'm confused about now, though, is that I miss them.  I think it's more because when my fiance and I go out, we're alone now.  Not that I don't like being alone with him, but I do miss having friends around.  The rest of our friends are married and have children, and it's not easy for them to get out as often as we'd like.  I am too shy of a person to go out and make conversation with people I don't know.  How do I get past this friendship that has ended?  

 Hello! I just recently ended a toxic friendship and know that eventually I will miss them. Unfortunately I don't have any words of advice for you. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. Take care!
 
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August 16, 2006, 9:22 pm PDT

DYSFUNCTION

Quote From: taylort08

Like many of you, I have a friendship that is toxic. I have known this "friend" for about four years, but we didn't become anything more than acquaintances until this past year or so. I really like this person, as he is fun to be around and has a very funny personality. Unfortunately, he isn't a very good friend.

       This past summer, both of us joined a group from school and went to Europe. We seemed to get along very well  in Europe and spent a lot of time around each other and with one other person who happened to be one of my "friend's" best friends. While at times I felt like the odd one out, it was understandable because I was not as good of friends with either one of them and we still all got along very well.

       Well, shortly after I got back, my mother died and it was obviously a very painful experience. My "friend" called to offer his condolences and invited me to do something with him (this was about 2 days afterward). Because I felt it was a little too soon to be doing those things, I declined, but thanked him anyway.

      After a week or so I started calling him about every other day or so, and we would occasionally "hang out," but often times he would say he was "tired" or didn't feel like doing anything. It was only about a month ago that I realized that I was the one always doing the calling and that he seemed to usually have an excuse not to hang out with me. He called me one time this summer on his own, and once again recently  only because he needed help with summer reading shortly before school started. I flipped out on him and told him no and actually felt bad afterward.

     I guess what I was wondering is, what should I do in this case. I realize this is not a productive friendship and I'm putting in way more than I'm getting out of it. While I do enjoy the time we spend together, it isn't worth the stress worrying about the friendship. I just don't know how to end it--for some reason I have the desire to make him feel bad about the way he's treated me or at least show him what he's missing. I know I probably shouldn't feel this way, but I just don't know how to help it.

This friendship sounds toxic and dysfunctional. The fact that you want this person to feel bad for the way he has “treated you” is way off in my opinion. From what you described, you are the one who enjoys this person’s company so much that you seek it out a lot. Perhaps you should just back away and allow this person time to want to be your friend instead of feeling forced into it. I am assuming you are female- if you haven’t noticed by now, guys don’t think like us…not at all! They have totally different thoughts and feelings regarding friendships. If you do anything at all, instead of it being something toxic like attempting to induce guilt, etc., you should simply be the bigger person, use this as a learning experience, and the next time a ‘friend’ like this comes along you will be able to see it from a mile away, and avoid it.

 

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