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Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

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Created on : Saturday, September 29, 2007, 09:23:47 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
How well do you think you know your neighbors, your friends and even your child's teacher? It is estimated that four to eight million people in North America are swinging in the suburbs -- mostly middle-class folks from all walks of life. Dr. Phil gives you a closer look at who these couples are who engage in sex with other twosomes. First up, Nita and Walter have been swinging for the last 12 years. They say they are happy in the lifestyle, so why does it cause tension in their relationship? Then, Brent says he has a strong yearning for he and his wife, Renee, to participate in a threesome. Renee says the idea disgusts her, but worries that if she refuses to join in, Brent will leave her. They fight constantly, often dragging their 17-year-old son into the middle of their chaos. Brent says he thinks about having threesomes every other day, but says that his desire is normal. What does Dr. Phil think? And, Dr. Phil viewers weigh in and share their thoughts about the swinging lifestyle. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.


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January 29, 2008, 5:46 pm PST

not ready

Quote From: mtlcoupleline

Good day everyone

 

I have made the mistake of going into this lifestyle a long time ago and am very happy to be out of it.  Let me tell you a bit the story.  I had made that decision myself to my husband because I thought I wasnt enough for him.  I knew a woman was after my husband and I got scarred and forgot who I was and did whatever I could to keep him.  How stupid was that?

 

I went on a website where I met a couple.  We went with them in another province because I didnt want to go in my hometown incase I would meet someone I knew.  We met them in a restaurant and talked a bit and went to that swingers club. I was so nervous.  I was shaking.  I was so afraid of how I would react when or if I would se my husband kissing another woman.

 

I sat on my chair most of the evening and he went dancing with the woman of that couple we met.  I had a few drinks trying to relax but it wasnt working. 

 

We went back to our hotel room and my husband who had a bit too much to drink, was pressure him to have sex in the same room as this other couple.  I didnt want to.  I was so scarred.  I was crying in the bathroom but my husband was getting so upset at that time so I bended and said yes. 

 

We had sex in the same room as this other couple but no one touched no one.  Believe me, I kept checking where my husband's hands were going.  I wasnt enjoying this at all.  Just wanted everything to be done and over with. Finally that other couple decided to go in the other room.  Finally I could go to sleep.

 

The next day, we met that couple to have breakfast. After we left, we said goodbye to everyone and when I turned around I saw my husband kissing this other woman.  My heart was broken.  I was devasted.  I was telling myself, how could it be so easy for him to do that.  I will always see this image of this first kiss in my mind.  I was so hurt.

 

When my husband came in the car and saw how hurt I was.  He said he was sorry and that it probably wasnt for us.  He was sorry to have hurted my feelings.

 

All this to say.  You need to have this wall around you to be in that lifestyle.  I could continue a few stories but I will stop here.  If you go in this lifestyle, people go there to realize certain fantasies and are using you as toys to these fantasies and you are doing the same.  This lifestyle is not for everyone.  Wasnt for me at all.  I am happy to be over this part of my life.  Just hope that no one has to be hurt that badly. 

 

Have a great day

OBVIOUSLY YOU WERE NOT READY  FOR THIS  AND NEVER WILL.. IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE..    YOU'RE HUSBAND SEEMS TO HAVE PUSHED YOU A LITTLE ( OK, MAYBE A LOT  INTO THIS)  THIS HAS TO BE A JOINT DECISION 100%.  I WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING MY HUBBY WANTED ME TO DO IF I DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING..  WE'VE BEEN IN THIS LIFESTYLE FOR 6 OR 7 YEARS NOW  AND THE DAY EITHER ONE OF US  SAYS THAT'S  IT, NO MORE   THAT,S FINE WITH BOTH OF US ..IT'S NOT A MUST IN OUR RELATIONSHIP AND IT'S NOT A THING THAT HAPPENS EVERY WEEKEND ( MAYBE ONCE EVERY 6 MONTHS OR SO)   WE LOVE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH .. AND WE ARE NOT SCARED TO MEET ANYONE WE KNOW AT THE CLUB BECAUSE IF THEY ARE THERE ,THEY ARE THERE FOR THE SAME REASON AS US.. RIGHT?  AND WE ARE NOT ASHAMED  TO BE ASHAMED IS TO THINK YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG ,WHICH WE DON'T THINK WE ARE ..   
 
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January 29, 2008, 5:47 pm PST

Swinging

I didn't see the show but it was reported on one of the swinging sites to which we belong. We have been together for over 30 years and married some 27 years. We have been in the lifestyle/swinging for about 11 years. We are active in or have been active in some 8 clubs and on a number of sites for swingers. That being said We have participated in forums on several of these site and many of the questions asked were about the effects or affects swinging has on a relationship. I can only say that those with healty sex lives and very good communications skills will generally enhance their relationship. On the other hand, if the communications and trust is not there then swinging will most probably have very detrimental effects on that relationship. May I say that from the stats that I've seen...swingers have a lower divorce rate than the averages that, depending on the information, run between 66 and 77% of all 1st and 2nd marriages. I am also poly and have 2 secondary relationships at present. One lady is married and they do not swing and might I add that they and we are very close friends...The relationship is not necessarily sexual but is satisfying to all of us. The other lady is currently separated and has been involved with swinging. If the term redneck has any meaning, the man involved or who was involved was a classic definition of that term. The lady is a 40 year old Gem.... who would crawl through fire for him but that was not good enough after 18 years and he had started cheating....

 

People involved in swinging run the gauntlet from Dr's, Nurses, Police, Salesmen, Other health professionals, Engineers, Mechanics, Truck Drivers, Architects, Retirees, and just about any profession or job you can imagine. Most get into the lifestyle to find out what it's all about and interestingly enough it's generally the ladies who keep the men involved.  Women seem to have less inhabititions than men... Just my observations.... and will dance totally nude at the drop of a hat . We're not talking super sexy 20 and 30 yr old women but mature women who look better with thier clothes on.... Women seem to be more likely to have public sex than men, even bi sex acts and mixed sexual acts with women and men...

 

I think swinging can and is generally good for relationships so long as there is trust, communications, and love between the partners who swing. As stated earlier.... Without these qualities..... Stay out of swinging.

Ray

 

  

 
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January 29, 2008, 7:26 pm PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

I am glad he broke up with her before marrying.  I'm not glad for why it happened and how he broke up.  I think the reason he delayed the marriage was to get her to come around to his way of thinking.  She never did.  What bothers me is that they had so much in common and were always holding hands, kissing, going places together, a healthy relationship except for the swinging he wanted   .  He met a woman with whom he had some chemistry and they began communicating, the secretly dating.     He learned that she was into swinging after a short time.  You can guess what happened next.  Yes, I'm glad it didn't happen later.  I'm sorry swinging was more important and that he did not love my friend even though he took six years of her life     That is the key line he was not swinging he was cheating. I know that many don't see the difference between the two but if you do it without the knowledge and consent then it is CHEATING, if the two of you do it together without force or coercion and with full knowledge and agreement then it is swinging.
 
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January 29, 2008, 8:59 pm PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: mgryphon

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Swinging Lifestyle and those that live that lifestyle. 

 

First off is that this lifestyle isn't just about sex.  Many people in this lifestyle don't just have sex with the first person that they see.  They take the time to get to know those they might be involved with and that in turn creates a friendship if there is sex or not.

 

I have met many in the lifestyle and have not had sex with them but are great friends with me.  I would not change those friendship for anything.

 

Next is that people are being forced to be in this lifestyle.  That is a total lie.  The swinging lifestyle lives by the motto that NO MEANS NO!!!!  We do not force people to have sex they do not want to, nor do we force someone to be in the swinging lifestyle.  Anyone that forces someone to be in the swinging lifestyle or forces them to do something that they don't want to, is not truly a swinger, they are a bully and someone who does not care about their signigicant other.

 

Those in the swinging lifestyle don't do this so we can openly cheat on their spouse or significant other.  We find the lifestyle a way to meet those that share the same interest as well as find new ways to spice up our sexlives.

 

Those in the swinging lifestyle do not flaunt who we are.  Matter of fact we can be someone living right next door to you, someone you work with, someone you pass by on the street and yes, believe it or not, someone in your church.

 

We are just normal people in a lifestyle that many do not consider normal.  We get married, we have jobs and we have children.  We just ask for people not to judge us because we don't our lives they way you do.

 

Finally I want to say that those that are in the swinging lifestyle, in my opinon have a better communication with their significant other.  The reason I say this is because we talk to each other about our likes, dislikes, our fears and even those that bother us.  This type of communication make a relationship stronger.

 

No this lifestyle is not for everyone and no we don't go out there and do a Join the Swingers membership drive.  But we are here and here for those that truly want to be in the lifestyle.

 

On the episode that Dr. Phil had on this subject, he had a couple that was in the lifestyle for 12 years and they are still married.  Yes they had some problems about being in the lifestye, but what couple doesn't have problems who are swingers or not.  But what you need to look at that they are still together and working out those issues and not going straight for divorce court.

 

Next he had a couple where they man was obsessed with threesomes and was pushing and forcing his wife into doing that.  I need to point out I find that wrong about being in the same episode about swinging. 

 

What that husband did was NOT swinging.  He wife was not a consensual participant in the threesomes and no matter what he still kept going.  I find him a mentally and emotionally abusive spouse.  I also find the person that joined in their threesome at fault.  With the wife so against this there should have been NO WAY that the third person would not have been able to see that the woman did not want to do the threesome.  So with that in mind I wonder why did he continue to go through with the threesome.

 

There is a lot of misunderstandings and comments about the swinging lifestyle.  Some of them are true and some of them are false.  If you are going to make a decision about if we are wrong about being in this lifestyle, first make sure you know why we are in the swinging lifestyle and second make sure you know all the truths and lies about the swinging lifestyle.

The last paragraph on this is one of the best posts yet.  People are making judgements and not understanding or knowing what they are talking about.  It is all rumors and unfounded assumtions being made.  If you really want to form an opinon, come to our club and see that it is truely for happy couples

 

playfullcouple

 
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January 30, 2008, 3:53 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: tiffany_2007

Just like you didn't know they were swingers means you most likly don't know there problems. They sound good at keeping there secrets. Which I have never found that to be a negitive in a person or a couple. Private shoud be kept private.
I am sure they don't have problems.  I am not sure why you assume they do.  Do you know them?
 
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January 30, 2008, 4:32 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: playfullcouple

Our bar is BYOB, but other then that, it much the same.  we ahve a bar, a dance floor and a set up of chairs and tables that allow visiting and mingeling.  It is a regualr night club, only the people allowed in are interviewed and screened.  We do not allow just anyone in, some clubs do, we are a lttile more exclusive.

 

We do have an upstairs that has bedsand coutches and some other "fun" furniture.  All seatrs and beds are leather at out club.  we are an on premisis club so people do have sex at our club, hence the BYOB so no liquor licenses is needed.

 

But, only 40% of our memebrs play at the club and even less swap.  The club is about the energy you feel and take from otehrs.  It is safe, and secure.  No one ever breaks the respect rule.  Girls can dance and be themselves and never have to worry about a guy taking it to far.  It simply never happens.  I have had to speak to one person in 2 years, and it was a girl that went too far...lol..funny hey.

 

the club is a safe enviroment for people you have respect and like to let loose.  no one judges there and no one speaks of what happens there to the outside world.  If you would like to attend, let me know and I will point you i nthe right direction.  Attending a club IS NOT an indication that you want to swing in any way shape or form, simple you are sick of hte regualr club sceen and wantto be at a place that is fun and respecful.

 

playfullcouple

Thanks again!

Im wondering what other "fun" furniture you were speaking of?  Also, its a law that if you have a liquor license you cant run this type of establishment?  Why is that?  Or am I misunderstanding?

I read another post speaking of how their club worked(thanks for the info!  :) and also thought the explanation on how respectful the people are made a lot of sense.  I believe you would be on your best behavior if your spouse, and others spouses, were always present!  I am curious if (or should say how often) things change when the spouses arent around.  As I read another poster speaking of being pursued (to join in) by two different men in this lifestyle and it sounded exactly like what I had experienced.  Being treated respectfully was not part of the equation!  LOL  But again, I do know a&&holes come in all walks of life.  Im just curious if this kind of thing isnt perhaps more typical within this community than what has been portrayed?

I am most def. a "vanilla" person and swinging would never work for me.  I dont do regular club scenes as im not a drinker and would rather go to dinner and a movie etc. than to hang out in a bar/club.  Which is why im curious over how these establishments work and all thats involved.  Thanks for the offer of info, though!  :)
 
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January 30, 2008, 7:41 am PST

the lifestyle

 I think there has been a lot of judgemental post. but here's my 2 cents.
Swinging or the Lifestyle is not for everyone. My wife and I have been together over 23 years and have been in the lifestyle for the last 9 years.
    To us going out in the lifestyle is our date night. We are out together. We go to a club were we dance with each other and flirt with friends in an atmosphere that is safe and accepting of that.
My wife likes to get dressed up in sexy clothing. The clubs we like  are for couple's only so we don't ever have to worry about getting hit on by some single guy. She wouldn't be able to dress the way she wants in a regular nightclub without inviting problems.
    We go to be sexy for ourselves.  We came to this as a couple and we do this as a couple.
    We have made some wonderful friends in this lifestyle. None of them are sex fiends. We've gone out on purely social outings and for party nights. What we do is our business and is between consenting adults.
 There are all different levels of this lifestyle, but the one thing that has remained a constant is that NO means NO.
    It may come as a surprise to some but women run this lifestyle. It may have been the man who first brought the subject up but women run the show.
    Nothing happens unless the women are willing to take things behind closed doors. So it has to be a mutual decision.
    Mostly it's going out to a safe enviroment were we can flirt and be flirted with. we get dressed up for each other and are able to appreciate others that have done the same.
    For us it about enjoying ourselves and having a good time not about having sex with others. That might happen but it might not. And for us that is not the goal.
    It's a date night and a chance to cut loose and rekindle our love away from the daily work of regular life.
    I don't think it's for everyone but I think the concept of a date night. (An evening out where you take your spouse out without the kids) is important to keeping a strong marriage.
I only ask that you don't judge what we do on some of our date nights and I won't judge you on yours.
We lead a quiet life and you would never know we were in the lifestyle unless we told you.

 
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January 30, 2008, 8:07 am PST

Hypocritical Audience

It seems like everyone was attacking the man in the second couple.  But nobody cared about the first couple.  This is really stupid that the audiences' (one lady nodding her head) disgust was dependent upon the approval of the female (which may approve or disapprove of the swinging lifestyle).  So just because your spouse is traumatized, it is his fault?  We men might as well dump the women who do not like threesomes and go marry women who are naughty (I especially like the ones who appear to be moral, innocent, ethical, professional during the day time but are very dirty in the bedroom).  When I took 8th grade GATE seminar gifted advanced class, there was this brilliant boy where I asked "what if she doesn't want to do it?" He responsed, "find somebody else" or "otherwise, people will team up and pound on you". Goes to show that this country is very feminist and allocates way too much power to the females.  Men need to take back control and be like third world, middle east countries (where the female has to be covered) or they are setting themselves up for self incrimination.
 
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January 30, 2008, 8:32 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: momisme2

Thanks again!

Im wondering what other "fun" furniture you were speaking of?  Also, its a law that if you have a liquor license you cant run this type of establishment?  Why is that?  Or am I misunderstanding?

I read another post speaking of how their club worked(thanks for the info!  :) and also thought the explanation on how respectful the people are made a lot of sense.  I believe you would be on your best behavior if your spouse, and others spouses, were always present!  I am curious if (or should say how often) things change when the spouses arent around.  As I read another poster speaking of being pursued (to join in) by two different men in this lifestyle and it sounded exactly like what I had experienced.  Being treated respectfully was not part of the equation!  LOL  But again, I do know a&&holes come in all walks of life.  Im just curious if this kind of thing isnt perhaps more typical within this community than what has been portrayed?

I am most def. a "vanilla" person and swinging would never work for me.  I dont do regular club scenes as im not a drinker and would rather go to dinner and a movie etc. than to hang out in a bar/club.  Which is why im curious over how these establishments work and all thats involved.  Thanks for the offer of info, though!  :)

Happy to give you all the info I can.

 

A liquore license has diferent laws in every city in Canada.  Some cities require you sell liquore and no byob allowed, our city says that if there is any nudity that there can be no sold booze, only what they bring.  it is a tricky thing and often cities change their laws to make it difficult for private social clubs, which is how we are licesed and zoned.

 

As far as people o ntheir best behavoir becasue of their spouses being there, that is swinging, couples, always.  Singles are not consider swingers, they are considered players and singles.  Single people try to have as much sex as possible with who ever they can.  We never allow single men to our club, and that is the case with most clubs.  we do allow single girls becasue they are so far and few between and they are way more respecful then single guys.  If you want to call a single guy a swinger, then every single guy every where would fall into that catagory and any bar where single men are would be a swingers bar to them.  tell me one singlr guy that would say no to sex in any form!  LOL.

 

So, to be clear, swingers is plural meaning that there must be two or more.  couples are swingers, very very few swingers consider single men swingers or play with them.  LAst count, less then 2%.    those two guys that treid to ask you to jioin, are single men trying to get laid.  If you would like to discuss swinging and what it can offer to a singlelady, we would be happy to talk to you as respectful adults that are true swingers.  We know and see about 8 single girls.  That is becasue we respect them, don't push them and listen to their needs.  2/3 of those girls don't sleep with us, because that is not there needs.  so you see, it isn't about sex, it is about friendship, respect and recreation, Sex is not always the end goal.  we have dozens of friends, but only play with 2 or 3 coupls and one girl. 

 

Respect is the most typical and single guys are almost never seen.  If they do act up at a club, then they are asked to leave right now, no second chances are given to anyone ever, couples included and that is made clear the first 5 min hey are at the club.  When you meet on line, people have to sceen their own people.  Some enjoy that as , like you, clubs of any type are not for them.  They prefer a game of pool or darts or coffee and a movie.  Dinner and movies are very very common first dates...lol..for lack of a better term.  wee have done that very regularly.

 

the clubs work well, becasue it is a safe enviroment for those of us that liek the socail aspect of going pout buy ahte the mains stream clubs.  We choose our own music with a juke box, we all bring food and we all get along.  Picture a house party with a dance floor.  Much the same, and no neighbors to wake up as we are all in industrial ares with no night trafic for security and descretion.

 

Also, most of our members all drive new cars and high ticket cars.  Swigning is not cheap, becasue you are so social and go out a lot.  My wife and I are out about 2X a week.  Out kids are just at the age to baby sit and love it whe ntyhe girls can watch their brother.  They get paid and have a night to them selves to watch a movie and stay up late.  when we don't go out, they ask if they did someting wrong...lol.  Now the parent bashers out htere will sy we are bad paernts to leavce our kids alone, but otehr then work and school, every night we are together.  My kids are never on a team I don't coach and we are part of the PTA.  We have never missed a single school play or band recital.  we always take them to school and walk them  home with their friends.  If they have friends around, it is at our house.  Our kids are the most importatn part of our life.

 

My wife and I were both had a first marriage and both had spouses cheat on us and both left us with the a daughter each.  When we met, we were instant family and for over 10 years, all we have done is be parents.  Now, that our kids are are old enough to be alone a bit, we are dateing and being a couple.

 

Being just parents is not healthy for the children.  We were having our troubles and not staying together as a good ouple.  We faught and rarely had sex for 6 years.  But stayed together for the kids.  I nthe last 2 years since we have worked so hard on being lovers again, the swinging thing just happened as My wife started to discuss her sexuality and being Bi.  We did not set out to swing, it found us and for over a year, we hung out with swingers and talked and we had th ebest sex of our life..>ALONE...and still do.  It prgressed with my wife having a friend to talk ato about her sexual feelings towrds same sex.

 

We have had our closest frinds and all of our family tell us that they can not believe how happy our family is thispast 18 months over the last 7 years!  Eveyone that knows us said they thought we would break up 3 years ago.  They are all surprised to see us together and so happy.  They also notice how happy our kids are.  My closest friend came to me, we have been freinds for over 25 years now, back to gradse school, and said he and his girl frind of 6 yers are having issues and he saw me work though a bad time, how did we do it.  I told him we concintrated on us and the rest feel in.  He too had a divorce and a single dad of 2 boys.  He and his girl firnd have married and now have a child and I have never seen him happier.  They go out once a week on a date and remeber to be acouple.

 

So, swingers, the people, notthe act, helped save our marriage.  And we progressed at our pase with no preasures from anyone at all.  Since this, we have bought into a club and we spend 2 hours a week saturday nights meeting new coupels and discussing the club, the lifestyle and what it can offer.  we do also touch on hte negitives, because there are negitives o nthe subject.  But the negitives and positives are both te same, they show the strengths and weaknesses of a couple.  This is not for eveyone, and we liek to point that out.

 

by the way, we are in a city of over a million peiple and we have had over 1000 couples in the past 3 years attend our club.  We have about 200 that are still active.  The averge memebr comes only once every 2 months.  we have 15 couples that are regular as in 3-4 times aever 6 weeks.  there  are 5 clubs in our city.  and over 50,000 people in the city on the Adult Friend finder web site.  So it is active, and not all use the clubs.  Also, our waiting list for interviews to attend our club is now over a month waiting period.  We interview every couple that comes in.  We do turn away about 355 of those that get to the interview stage.  We have an application form to be filled in as well.  we also do back ground checks and ID checks.

 

feel free to email me direct playfullcouple74 at hotmail.

 

We have politicians, Rotarians, Lions, and even a minister as memebers.  you would be shocked at who on your block is doing this.  Since 1 in 10 do swing or at least attend parties or clubs, or like to watch or be on display....you do know someone doing this that is close to you.

 

playfullcouple

 
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January 30, 2008, 9:14 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: bearcourage

I do feel for you as I am a parent, although my children are still young, we always feel the need to protect our children.  Like someone else said, I will play a bit of devil's advocate.  Are you sure of what you are seeing is low self esteem or the fact you are so bother by what they do?  If she is in fact doing this to merely please him then I can guarantee the relationship will not last (and I do not under any circumstances agree with one person making another feel forced into this lifestyle).  One of the codes that alot of swingers live by is that they do not play with anyone that is being pushed into it or isn't totally comfortable with it and believe you me, it is always obvious.  The last thing most of us want is to deal with or get into the middle of any drama.  Maybe you and she should take baby steps in getting the relationship back between you.  Possibly meet, just the two of you, and you tell her as unemotionally as you can the you don't agree with what she is doing but that it is the last time that you will bring it up and that you would appreciate her not bringing the subject up.  I'm sure the two of you have so much more within your mother/daughter relationship that you can share as opposed to something that you so venomitly disagree on.  I do wish you well.  And like I said, when you do speak to her, try hard to do so without getting emotional.  I say that because if you get emotional, she will go on the defensive and no one will be hearing anyone and you will end up right back where you are now.  Good Luck!
Thank you. Your advice sound, and not at all judgemental. I appreciate hearing from another mother.
 
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