Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Ok, this is the third time I've posted, and it has yet to appear.  I wonder what the moderators are trying to hide?

Swinging History:  The most commonly accepted origins of swinging are that it began during World War II among Air Force pilots.  The intent was for those not deployed, to take care of others' wives while they were away, and also due to the mortality rate of pilots during that particular war.

Our marriage:  My wife and I have been married for 11 1/2 years.  We've run the gamut in emotions and problems that have strengthened us immensely.  At the time we entered the lifestyle, our marriage was as strong as it could ever be, and our sex life was outstanding.  Both are even more so now.

How we started:  Some months earlier, my wife began to change.  She began to re-discover her own identity and wanted to do things that she wanted to do for herself, but at the same time knowing that some of those things I would enjoy just as much (tattoos/piercings).  In the coming months, she also began to
express an interest in women.  I encouraged her in this pursuit, because I enjoy seeing her happy, and the changes she was making within herself made her into a much happier person.  Still being shy and a little self-conscious, I asked her if she wanted me to start looking around for possibilities for her to experiment with.  Out of that conversation, some weeks passed and the subject was half-jokingly broached by me about the swing lifestyle.  I damn near fell out of my chair when she wanted to look into it.

I found a couple local swinger groups, and joined their online communities, lurking for a time to watch activity, eventually posting to introduce ourselves.  A veteran couple contacted us privately to offer some unsolicited advice for a successful existence within the lifestyle, spawning a series of conversations that have been of immense benefit to us.  The key piece of advice was to let the female lead the way, especially since she was the most hesitant, simply because up until this point I was her only sexual partner.  The second piece of absolutely priceless advice was that we should discuss everything beforehand.  We spoke more openly than we had before, expressing what we were comfortable with happening and what realms were off-limits.  Initially, she was comfortable with same-room sex, but no interactive play between couples of any sort.  Quite literally a few days later, she broke the news to me while we were cuddling in bed, that she was ok with soft-swap.  Perhaps a week after that, she dropped the bombshell on me that she was ok with full-swap.  Still, it was some time before we even met a couple face-to-face.  Not long after we signed up together on a few swinger websites, we were contacted by a couple in Hawaii that was moving back to the states, just a few hours south of us.  We developed a great rapport/friendship with them, and they were to be the first couple we met in person.  The night finally arrived that we were supposed to meet, but plans changed at the last minute when they cancelled.  We ended up that afternoon chatting with several couples online, and decided that since we had plans to go out on the town, we were still going to do so.  We met one couple for drinks, and another couple met up with us at the strip club later that evening.  We it hit off physically and mentally with couple number two, and made plans the next day for them to come over the following evening and grill with us.  Chemistry will not always be there between couples, and a rule of ours is that if one of us if feeling it but the other isn't, then it doesn't happen...period.  We never take one for the "team".  We all wanted to play, but both came into it with open-ended results, but expectations for a soft-swap encounter.  As with our personal rule of the female leading the way, the female half of the other couple was nervous, and I handed her the reigns.  She controlled how far we went and how fast we got there.  In the end, it was a first full-swap for both of us, and the issues we thought might come up in the moment, were fleeting at best.  For years, I was certainly a jealous type, but as I lived my life, I became much more open-minded about everything.  The moment I saw another man penetrate my wife, I experienced a "wow, it's really happening" moment, but was far more turned on that I thought possible.  The same went for her when she saw me with this other woman.  The flood gates were opened with the two of us, and over the next 24 hours, we had the most incredible sex together, several times.  I joked with my wife that in that one evening, she doubled the number of sexual partners she's had in her life.

Another rule we established together, was that at the end of the night, no matter the hour or level of exhaustion that we have one another before we go to sleep.  The emotional connection we share in that moment of physical bliss is incredible.  There have been preceding comments that swingers have self-esteem issues.  Low self-esteem spawns drama, which is what we avoid, as do many others in the
lifestyle.  Our way of meeting up with couples is that we usually chat online prior to a meet.  The way they speak in chat is the first way for us to gauge whether or not we'll have personality connections.  If we decide to meet them in person, we meet in a public place for dinner and/or drinks, and we talk about...stuff.  From there, we decide if we'd like to take it to another level, but usually have signals we give one another if our interest in them is there or not.  On some occasions, depending on how long we've communicated prior to a face-to-face meet, we may end up playing with them that night, but usually we'll meet, then meet up at another time if we are all interested in playing together.  Swingers in it for the right reasons, and with absolute communication between one another, are the most secure, confident people we know, and possess high self-esteem.  We have been with couples who have had insecurities in their marriage, making them the wrong people for the lifestyle that we've been with.  Those issues presented themselves in a subtle manner, and we've distanced ourselves from them either entirely, or until we're confident they've worked through those issues.  When we posted profile pics on swinger sites, the attention and compliments my wife got were such a boost to her that she really came into her own with this.  She felt a desire to dress sexier because she was more confident in herself, and her desire for women grew even more as the compliments from other women began to pour in.  As our encounters took place, she took more control in what she wanted to do with women, and expanded her sexual play with them as she felt comfortable.  She was never pressured to do anything but what she was comfortable with.  Dressing sexy is part of her now, when we go out on the town.  She does it for me, but also knows she'll see some attention directed at her from other men (and women), and really soaks that up.  It makes our time together so much more exciting.

Other comments from folks posting here was that swingers only engage in activities with folks 'lower' than them.  That may be the case in some instances as far as a socio-economic status is concerned, but this just illustrates the fact that swingers come from all walks of life.  We've had encounters with current active-duty military, nurses, retired military, owners of multi-million dollar businesses, laborers...you name it.  This clearly is not a lifestyle for everyone, but it is a lifestyle for us. We share a relationship that exists on a level I am confident in saying does NOT exist in many marriages today.  Nothing is sacrilegious to the two of us, and we have no secrets between us...except holidays, birthdays and anniversaries.

Religion was brought up on numerous occasions as the blanket condemnation for our activities as grown, mature adult couples.  These condemnations were also countered by some folks who understand that not everyone believes in their god, their book of faith or what have you.  We were both 'religious' at points in our lives, but decided individually that we are who we are, and don't need to be who someone else thinks we should be in order to conform to a certain sect of society.  What our religion was is irrelevant and will not be mentioned.  We are our own people, and have made the choice that we will no longer follow a faith that is based on fear (of going to "hell"), or one that teaches its followers that activities we do together are in some way, 'dirty', or 'unclean'.  Mohandas Gandhi once said, "I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."  It is the rampant hypocrisy and desire to judge (not, lest ye be judged) others for what they do, rather than love the person to project one's faith on another that turns us off to it, among other things.  Besides, we exercised choice, something that is explicitly granted according to the Bible, not that it really matters.

Another group of folks stated that swingers are unintelligent folks.  I consider myself to be above-average intelligence, and the list of various types of folks we've had encounters with further illustrates that swingers run the gamut in intelligence as well, but are often above-average in intelligence, simply because they possess the capacities to disassociate emotion from activities in the lifestyle, and can differentiate between situations where emotion is on a deeply personal level, from situations where there is an emotional connection, but on a different level...one much less personal. 

In reading so many of the responses to this show topic, I've found folks misusing words to make their case, weakening their argument significantly. 

Forsaken:  to renounce or turn away from entirely.

Swingers have not forsaken their spouses, because we have not renounced them, or turned away from...except perhaps in the situation where we're with another person in the same room.

Infidelity:  1: lack of belief in a religion 2a: unfaithfulness to a moral obligation : disloyalty b: marital unfaithfulness or an instance of it

1?  Yeah, I guess you could say that.  2a?  Who defines whether or not something
is an obligation?  2b?  See unfaithfulness

unfaithfulness:  not faithful: a: not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : disloyal <an unfaithful friend> b: not faithful to marriage vows <suspected her husband of being unfaithful>

Perhaps these could apply, but like the Bible...it's all about interpretation.  We are faithful to one another because we've agreed to do this together, within steadfast rules that if broken, spell the end of our lifestyle journey.  If we as a couple choose to alter our perceptions of something, there is nobody who can justifiably find fault in our decision, except us.

Swinging is hardly a lifestyle for everyone, and it requires confidence, trust, stability, love and openness that sadly exist in far too few marriages these days.  Many enter the lifestyle for the wrong reasons, or aren't prepared for the emotions that will be experienced during discussions and encounters with others.  The two couples on the show don't illustrate the successes in the lifestyle, but rather only the failures.  The first couple is rife with insecurities that don't bode well for a successful journey.  The second couple needs to be no longer, and that man needs to be met in a dark alley by men carrying large, blunt objects.  He is the epitome of the self-absorbed, self-serving person, and it's all about him.  The fact that he seems to have no conscience with regard to his actions is deplorable.

There are ministers and priests that hurt children.  So no matter waht circles you run in, there will be people that are bad.  Not all swingers are good people, not all ar ebad people.  Just like any other walk of life.  I simply refered to people posting on here to the educated coments.  Yours also are very good and well thought out.

This guy sounds like a real creep.  If he was hanging out at the clubs or meting couples or not, he would still be a creep.  YOu are better off with out him.....if you like to see a married man...LOL..I know lots that would see you...WIHT THERE WIFES OK...LOL...hell, the wife would be there too!!!...LOL

Ok, now I am having fun and teasing.  Trust is the biggest isue of any relationship, vannilla or swingers.  I am happy to see you have an open mind and are thinking things through.  Sounds like a controling person with the ability and skills needed to manipulate you got a hold of you and used those tools against you.  I am happy to see you saw it before it was too late and saw him for what he was.

You made one comment that I am not sure if you really realize how important it is.  he likes to watch men.  There are many men that have bi-sexual fantasies but are affraid of them so cover them up by being contoling and abusive to asure themselves they are straight.  If more peopel could accept who they are and not be worried about societies views, life would be easier for them.

I have to say, your comment certainly evoked a strong reaction from  me.

Get a grip. My marriage is fine. I don't have any hurt hiding within me. You're being extremely presumptuous to even suggest such things, and the idea of someone I don't even know being grieved and pained to the point of tears over my marriage - which again, works just fine, thanks - is what is offensive to me.  You are the one who should seek help, and fast - if the happy life of someone you don't know, who isn't hurting anyone, is affecting you this deeply. 

I don't feel that Christians are out to get me. I myself am a Christian - though it's people who make comments like yours who make me embarassed to even admit to being a Christian.

I can only answer this for myself - and I'm going to give you the short version, too. It says many things in the Bible. Many things that are contradictory, in fact. There are often two different versions of a single event - two creation stories, for instance.

According to the Bible, it's sinful to have sex for any reason besides procreation - which was an important concept to a nomadic desert tribe with a high infant mortality rate. So, should married Christians stop having sex if they are not trying to reproduce?

There's some pretty sketchy stuff in the Bible. The fellow who sent down his daughters to have sex with the men banging on the door, because hey, that was the custom then, it was hospitality.  The daughters who tricked their father into having sex with them. David sending his soldier into battle so that he could make time with the guy's wife when he was gone.

Do I believe in the Bible? Certainly, as an oral tradition put into writing by men - inspired by God, yet also, as flawed human beings, inspired by the politics of their time. Do I believe in the Bible as written, verbatim? No, I do not.

I am faithful to my husband, and he is faithful to me. Our definition of faithfulness may be different than yours, but that doesn't make either wrong. We put each other first, we're partners. Again, our lifestyle is not for everyone - but it works for us.

 I'm not judging anyone, I am speaking from experience. I think that  these people that say that swinging helps their marriage is full of bologna. I lived this and it  was like a soap opera. Everyone we met during this had in some form or fashion had problems. Jealousy, just like the first couple, the wife made sure that she picked women she knew her husband would not be interested in. Well duh. That is human nature. My gosh I'll be the first to admit, I'd be jealous to for my husband to had been with  some little barbie doll. Who are we kidding here. Also what dr. phil said. If you want to be single be single, but lets not set up housekeeping and help each other will bills and bring kids into the world and then lets go out here on weekends or whenever and go play the single life on the side. Marriage is sacred, and I stepped over that line as well as he did, and I could hit myself daily with the choice I made. I feel like a total mess, and a failure as a wife and a mother due to this decision I will have to live with. I'm thinking of trying very hard to be what God intened me to be. We are not dogs, if thats the case hold a swinging party in the back yard and go at it. How weird is that. sorry not a judgment my opinion but it did not work for me.