Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Yes, you do need to see a marriage counselor, because you said that swinging improved your marriage, so there had to be something left to be desired. Unfulfilled and the inability to please. They do have penis enhancements these days or you could try Viagra or maybe put on a wig so your wife thinks that you are a woman.

Yes swinging has improved our marriage, we had a good marriage before swinging and a better marriage after. Marriage, relationships and life all change over time. Nothing in this world is as constant as change. We have been married for 33 years as of the 15th of Feb, and have been through many changes, newlyweds changed to young parents changed to parents of teens changed to empty nester's. Every change effects the person and the relationship, different jobs and different volunteer work take time away in different amounts.

Our marriage was fine and is better. will6021 I assume from reading some of your other that you are an aunt but not a parent, but I just bet you know just how everyone should raise their kids. You are not a swinger, that is a given, are you even married? If you were married you would never say that there must have been something left to be desired because a marriage improved for whatever reason. Lots of things improve a marriage, somethings degrade a marriage, for us swinging improved it.

As far as penis enhancements ..... none needed ( I am 6'2" 195# and wear a 13 shoe) I am doing fine there.... but thanks for asking

As far as Viagra it is a boon to the swing world, you know when you are faced with three hours of play time a little bit of the blue pill is a nice pick me up, so to speak.

In regard to statement in regard to swingers being 2 % of the population, etc, the friendships I have were not started due to religion and few due to swinging.  I have an aray of friends, all of different genders, of different religions and of different views on the world.  It appears that you think that swingers are obsessed with that one aspect of their lives and I, personally, have not met anyone in which that would hold true.    I'm not sure what you mean by "Could you give up swinging, so your children could have a chance" so that is something that I cannot answer because you totally lost me on that one.  As for my children and their sexuality, I want them to have a safe, happy, and healthy view in regard to sex.  Sex is a worderful human activity and I feel many are both embarrassed and ashamed of their sexuality.  As for dating, I dread those days because I am a strict overprotective mother and can't imagine ever meeting any male or female that I thought was good enough for my daughters! LOL

Swinging, for me, is not about not being happy with my husband.  You could not be further from the truth.  My husband is the most wonderful, sharing, caring man in the world and without getting to in depth he is extraordinary in bed!!!  For us, it is about fantasies that we have had and discussed and chose to bring to life.  And, yes, I do very much enjoy being with another woman, it is a totally different experience than being with a man.  It is not better than being with my husband but it is something I do enjoy.  Polygamy, as I stated in an earlier post, is not something I wish to do.  I do have limited knowledge in regard to the subject but it isn't something that I hold an interest in.  No I have never been a prostitute and I don't see myself as a whore either, though I can only imagine how you would define that.  As for abuse, unfortunately, 1 in 3 girls  and 1 in 5 boys in this country are abused.  Your statements insinuate that victims of child abuse automatically makes them "sexual deviants".  I don't agree.  My parents have been foster parents most of my life and I have seen some that went in the wrong direction in life and some that soared.  But in all honesty, most of these things are getting off the original subject of this particular message board.  I'm curious, did you see the Dr Phil show on swinging?  I don't recall seeing you post around the time the show aired, what made you post now almost 3 weeks after the show has aired?

I wanted to wait to respond to this one. You swing 2 or 3 times year, so some years it is like once every 6 months. Is it that you don't enjoy it very much, couples don't enjoy you, or that your spouse only indulges you with this nonsense once every 6 moths. That is not even enough to be classified as a hobby. Amusement? I don't know, I enjoy reading, going to dinner, spending time with family, playing sports, but can't think of anything that i enjoy, that I only do once every six months.

I know wives that allow their husbands to go to strip clubs, bars, and hostess clubs and they allow this to be done more than once every six months. Most at least, once a month. Most of this nonsense, is initiated by men and they desire to have sex with other women. I know of no woman, that said " Mommy, I want to grow up and get married and have sex with other men that I am not married to. Most women just want to get married and have children and enjoy sexual relations with their husband. It is interesting, that your wife has sex with other women and you have to watch.

Like Pornography: You and the other husband watch the two wives having sex, you know girl on girl pornography. You watching. I am sure that you have those porn films. I understand why the husbands don't have sex with each other, not a straight male porn scene. The entire sex industry is designed to objectify women.

Pimps groom their prostitutes and first get them to fall in love with them, and did they get them to prostitute to prove their love. Lot so of prostitutes believe that the pimp really loves them and it is only sex.

Women rarely pay for sex and most don't have to look very far. Swinging is male fabricated obsession, and it is not unusual that it is older couples. Young men and women usually don't have to go to such extremes and most don't need Viagra. You do.

Like I said, i am from Southern California, I live in the sex capital of the world and used to live in the sex city capital of the world and in my younger days I knew the beach scene from Malibu to Costa Mesa and down to San Diego. Never in any of the years did we go just two times a year.

Although women buy into this male produced nonsense, most try it for their husbands sake and like the couple on the show, the wife says things like they have no problem with the lifestyle for it is putting a strain on the marriage. The husband does not see this, because he is getting what he wants. Wives also say things like this, if we don't do it together he will leave or do it anyway. You need not worry, because your wife is not satisfied with you, like you said, she needs a woman, which you can not be. So, sad for you.

Polygamy is another male produced relationship. How often do you hear of women with multiple husbands living together as married couples?

This is not surprising, because lots of woman still say things like, He loves me, he does not mean to beat me, and I love him, he is a good guy. Before you focus on this sentence, I am not implying that you beat your spouse.

2 to 3 times a year, that is nonsense. It does not improve your marriage one bit. What, she puts up with you the rest of the year, because she know s that 2 to 3 times a year, she gets to be with some thing she enjoys more, a woman. Fact, she either enjoys being with women more or less than being with you. Is your sex so bad throughout the year, that she needs that break 2 to 3 times a year or maybe it is so good throughout the year, that you guys need something worse 2 to 3 times a year.

Sense women are usually sexaully smarter than men, I would be courious to have your wife read these posts, including yours.

I appreciate your honest and candor, but I have said that not all sexually abused children grow up to be sexual deviants. Not all physically abused children, grow up to be abusers, some survive. You are close to the mark on the numbers, of 1 in 3 girls being sexually abused and 1 in 5 boys being sexually abused. Most people look at the numbers and simply say there is a problem. They forget that these victims grow up, and most do not recover, and they grow up and they haves lives, but as what. Some are prostitutes, some are strippers, some are alcoholics, some are sex addicts, some are drug addicts, some are swingers, and some are homosexuals. The percentages are overwhelming.

In regards to sex, my sexual prowess in bed on a scale of one to ten is a fifteen. But, my self control on a scale of 1 to 10, is a 100. Men often have this thing in their head when they are single, that they want to have sex with all the beautiful women in the world. They measure their male ego, by their sexual conquests, and some men never get over this. I accept that your husband is wonderful, but you are not completely satisfied with him, because he is not a woman. Well, imagine men that think things like, my wife is fat, my wife is not so pretty, my wife is over 50 and old, and how can I just have sex with her, I want to have sex with other woman that are shapely, younger, prettier, or just different.

Fantasies; How about this one, a woman wants to be tied up and raped, because this is her fantasy? This is sick to any woman who has been raped and even sicker if the woman fantasizing has been raped.

Consenting Adults: you did not write this, but i will quote it. "As consenting adults I know they do not need My approval for what they do sexually. Sorry what consenting adults do in private does not need yours or my approvals.

Questions:

1. Does did apply to a man who has sex with his adult daughter?

2. Does did apply to a woman that wants to marry her adult son?

3. Maybe, step fathers should be able to have sex with their adult daughters?

4. How about a uncle that has sex with your married adult daughter?

5. Should a mother and a daughter be able to marry one another?

6. How about a man who marries five women?

7. Should sex with a 13 year old be okay? If you are in Japan or South Korea, where the age of consent is 13?

8. Should an adult be able to have sex with their dog? He argues as far as I know, my dog is an adult? Funny, many people even now, kiss their dogs mouth to mouth.

If you ever get the chance to read this book called "Surviving Parenting" you will understand my question, would you be willing to give up swinging so your children can have a chance. Parenting is a responsibility that exceeds that of doctors and requires even more training. did you spend 12 years in parenting school to get your Doctorate Degree in Parenting? Likely not. A friend of mine, went to Pepperdine and got a Masters Degree in Early Childhood Development. For what, to be a parent.

People use sex to replace and fill many voids in life, but when you have children there is so much more that you can do. You stated that you have few friendships due to swinging, which means that it is basically meaningless and not worthy of bringing out of the closet into your mainstream life. I guess this means that neither you nor your husband delivered flowers to any of your swing couples. Why would you? That is an expression of love. Making love and sex are supposed to be expressions of love, unless you are a dog which will hump anything. See, how most of these are male obsessions.

You may want to examine how big a role God plays in your life. I am not talking about religion, I am talking about a relationship with God and being a part of His family, and sharing in the gift of his only Begotten son, Jesus Christ and the salvation that the has delivered. Just for the record, I read and understand both the Old and New Testament, and no why they are different. You would not want to live under the Old Testament, unless you were Jewish and Israel the people, you could not go to Heaven, you belonged to Satan. But, when Jesus came, the New Testament, he came for all man and through him all could be saved.

Don't try to understand the whole Bible, just try, just try, to read and ask God to help you understand John 3:16. I have an Army of Soldiers who do battle for me daily, they are the 2/3 of Angels that remain, the Holy Spirit, the Father, and His son, Jesus. Wouldn't you like to know, that your children have this same protection. It starts by excepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Savior, that is because we all must be saved. I can not imagine a parent giving their child any less. You express your parenting desires well, when you say that you could not imagine any male being good enough for your daughters.

Be at peace.

Swinging is RECREATIONAL sex and we average 2 or 3 times a year.

We make love 5 or 6 times a week. My wife and I are quite satisfied with with our love life. We swing for fun not out of need or because something is missing in our lives. We enjoy doing it. We also enjoy camping and do that 2 or 3 times a year, we even own a Coleman pop up camper and a van to pull it with and all the camping toys. We still only do it 2 or 3 times a year, but we think of ourselves as campers.

We live full and active lives, we own 2 businesses, we only do about 10 hrs a week now in our volunteer works (it was at one point over 40 hrs a week, for about 11 years). For two years, mid 05 to mid 07, we also owned a swingers bar along with our 2 existing businesses and as a personal and business decision did not swing with anyone for those two years. We decided not to play with anyone because as bar owners we had to be very nice to everyone, and rather than tell someone *We don't want to play with you* and lose them as possible paying costumer we could and did say to any who asked *We don't play with any costumers*. We took a pass on quite a few really hot couples because we set up our rules.

How often a year does someone go hunting? Some go, at least around here the max is about 6 times and they are call avid hunters. Most hunters only go 1 time a year, they are still hunters. One of my brothers has a pilots lic. but only rents a plane 1 or 2 times a year for recreational flying. He still is a pilot. He is a recreational pilot

We owned a swinger bar and every Sat. night for two years I talked to swingers, I had a full staff to handle the bar and floor, my wife and I talked to the patrons. Most swingers only end up in bed with another couple 2 to 4 times a year. We had a very regular set of people that came to our bar on average twice a month to dance, drink, flirt and meet people, but to do a full swing only a few times a year. It takes time and talking to make sure that all 4 people agree and are on the same page.

Swinging is just a fun recreational time that a couple can enjoy with another couple, it is not done every day, every week, or even every month. It does open a line of communication within a couple that is very freeing.

Swinging is not a dominate part of our lives, it is something that is fun and provides us talking points to turn each other on with. I spin her tales of what I saw and what we did as part of our foreplay, Dr Phil tells folks to tell each other fantasies to spice up their love life, we just have memories to back up the stories.

Our swinging has nothing to do with my wife being worried about me leaving or about me worried about her having an affair, we will be a married couple for a long time (33 years as of today) and never happier together. Neither of us have had an affair, we play as a couple.

I do not expect you to understand that a couple can talk to each other honestly with no pressure and decide to swing, but it does happen. It has nothing to do with ALLOWING.

P.S. my wife has read most of my postings from the very first post three days before the show aired, I see that you did not even post anything on this topic until Feb 10 and the show aired on Jan 25, you were busy posting on *Baggy Pants*

A  marriage void of the Fairy Tale, must be replaced by a Fantasy, and it is doomed to Failure.

The message in "Pretty Woman" was that even a prostitute wants the Fairy Tale; she did not want to settle for condominium and cash on the table, she wanted the Knight who sweeps her off her feet and rides up on a White Horse.

Let me tell a bit about us...

We started dating in 68, St Pats Day she was 14 and I was 16, shared losing our virginity's on Thanksgiving of 68. Broke up in 71 when she moved 700 miles with her mother, we knew we were too young at 17 and 19 to marry. She got married to a good old boy in 72 and he started drinking and being very controlling, she divorced him in 74. The day after she tossed him out she called a mutual friend and asked what my relationship status was, the friend called me gave me an update and I called my lady. That was on a Tuesday by Saturday I was pulling up in her driveway, We had a great weekend together, I went back north, quit my job and moved the 700 miles two weeks later. I made the first payment on the house they had just closed on. I was the knight, it was a 71 VW micro bus not a white horse, but hey it was what I was driving at the time.

We married 1 day after her divorce was final, 33 years ago, we had sons in 78 and 83. We were full time parents, in 88 our boys were 5 and 10 they went to spend 10 days with grandpa, the first extended break we had from being parents. we talked about all the fantasies we wanted to fulfill, one of them was she wanted to be pleasured by two males. She had worked with a guy from 80 to 85 that flirted with her, and no they did not have an affair, so we called him and he agreed to partake in a threesome. She loved having 4 hands touching her, two mouths kissing her. I loved seeing how turned on she was and how hot the whole scene was. we played with him two more times over the next couple of months because we enjoyed it not because something was lacking in our life or our marriage.

Over the next 20 years we have swung about 50 to 60 times, or if you do the math 2 to 3 times a year.

Some years it has been 10 times in the year some have been 0. Just depends on what has been going on in the rest of our lives. Many other things out rate swinging, i.e. our boys, our jobs, family functions, vacations. We are very picky about who we swing with, we have walked out and said *Thanks but no thanks* just because we did not like how someone treated a waitress, you had better show everyone what we consider the proper respect to play with us.

We have done many romantic things over the years, I bring her flowers every 10 to 14 days, not roses but wildflowers, her preferred flowers. We have had many candle lit dinners, spent time at bed and breakfast spots.

Your lack of self control is in your continuing to ask about incest and multiple wives after those questions have been answered. Swingers do not hang out at playgrounds we hang out at bars and swinger meet and greets, no kids allowed. Also your use of allowed in almost all your post. I am not the boss of my wife and she is not mine, we travel through life as equals and as partners.

Swinging must be Hell and the expectation of that place for eternity...swinger's choice. Free Will. It must suck to only do something 2 or 3 times a year, but know that you are damned for all eternity because of your choice..Your choice.

Cfnamier says ' Either God will forgive me my sins or he will punish me for them..His choice. (Wrong,  your choice.) I figure I have either damned myself or I haven't..His choice.. (Wrong, Your choice.) My choice is to swing and enjoy sex." Swinging 3 to 4 times a year, and choosing Hell, is definitely already Hell. Your choice.

And if single and all alone Christab called that Happy, then go for it. Your choice. One who admits to being single and watching his friends swing from the side lines because he lacks guts...His choice. But, according to Cfnamier swinging is placing himself at risk of Hell and damnation for ETERNITY, for 2 maybe 3 times a year of swinging....His choice.

Rose petals, just because you love her, or roses on Valentine's Day, are part of the Fairy Tale and not a Fantasy. Got it Mr. Single and Lonely. But, your choice.

I had a girl once tell me that she did not like roses, because they died within days and that was wasted money. We went out on a dinner date, with couples all around, and a flower girl was asking the gentlemen if they wanted roses for their date. I watched and some did. As the lady approached, I remembered what my date had said, but chose to follow my heart.I got her the roses and she felt like one of the special girls.  I asked her later, about what she had said and what if I had not gotten her the rose. Her reply was that it would have been the wrong move for me. My choice.

Yes, swinging is Hell, when for 2 to 3 times a year, you figure that you might be already damned. How is that Happy? Single and Lonely, who contemplates swinging as a way to get the sex he can't get, would not know. Married and Together, already anticipates receiving the punishment of Eternal Damnation to join Satan. Sorry, it must be Hell, whenever you hear a bump in the dark, when you must wonder if Satan is coming to take you home already...Your choice.

Happiness should give you peace, and pleasing God should make you happy. Your choice. I wouldn't want to tell you what to do.

In Iraq there are bombers who just know they are going to Heaven when they blow themselves up ... they truly believe..... I think they are wrong ..... What do you think?

The Nazi war machine said God was on their side, so does the KKK . The Japanese said their Emperor was a God and controlled the divine wind. I think just about every army since the beginning of time has said *We fight for God* and *God is on our side*

Buddhists pluck their hair rather than cutting it so they don't chance killing a flea because they feel all life is sacred, I kill bugs all the time I live in a very bug friendly climate

Your take on religion is not my take. I think when I face God he will give me a B as far as my life and since there is ONLY one guy that gets an A. I will do all right. My God made me sexual and I thank him  for it.

Your take on religion is way too fundamental for me

I will still swing as I see fit and let MY God or how I see god judge me, I will let your vision of God judge you

So if thats all you got, my eternal soul ..... build a bridge and get over it.

I will respond to your post, but re-posting mine, but it has your original take, which now you want to ignore.

You said, either God will forgive you for your sins or he will PUNISH you for them. His choice. That is the God, you speak of, because these are your words. That is not a B, that is a F, for failed, by your definition.

You said that you FIGURE THAT YOU HAVE EITHER DAMNED YOURSELF OR YOU HAVEN'T. THESE ARE YOUR WORDS, AND YOUR LIFE. How is that a B. At best it is a D, for Denial. It is you who have a problem, with God's Word. 1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the LUST of the FLESH, and the LUST of the EYES, and the pride of life, is not of the father, but is of the world 17; and the world passeth away, and the lust thereof, but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.  John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh (Jesus), and dwelt among us, ( and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only Begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

My life and my God, he has forgiven me, and I have accepted his Son as My Lord and Savior, and I live with ABSOLUTE certainty that I will see God and His Son, Jesus, in Heaven. NO doubt. Unless, yours is a typo, God is never spelled in small caps, unless you are referring to a false god, like Satan or Zeus.

God's word will set you free. Your choice.

Yes, swinging is Hell, when for 2 to 3 times a year, you figure that you might be already damned. How is that Happy? Single and Lonely, who contemplates swinging as a way to get the sex he can't get, would not know. Married and Together, already anticipates receiving the punishment of Eternal Damnation to join Satan. Sorry, it must be Hell, whenever you hear a bump in the dark, when you must wonder if Satan is coming to take you home already...Your choice.

I do not believe in Hell, my God is about love and forgiveness and I do not believe having sex with a consenting adult is either wrong or a sin, I have no fear of my God because He knows I am but a mortal man ..... He and only He will judge me

You fear your God, you fear Hell, I do not.