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Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

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Created on : Saturday, September 29, 2007, 09:23:47 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
How well do you think you know your neighbors, your friends and even your child's teacher? It is estimated that four to eight million people in North America are swinging in the suburbs -- mostly middle-class folks from all walks of life. Dr. Phil gives you a closer look at who these couples are who engage in sex with other twosomes. First up, Nita and Walter have been swinging for the last 12 years. They say they are happy in the lifestyle, so why does it cause tension in their relationship? Then, Brent says he has a strong yearning for he and his wife, Renee, to participate in a threesome. Renee says the idea disgusts her, but worries that if she refuses to join in, Brent will leave her. They fight constantly, often dragging their 17-year-old son into the middle of their chaos. Brent says he thinks about having threesomes every other day, but says that his desire is normal. What does Dr. Phil think? And, Dr. Phil viewers weigh in and share their thoughts about the swinging lifestyle. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.


 
cfnamier
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March 10, 2008, 9:54 am PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Perhaps you can give me insight re: something that still bothers me ever since discovering that my now ex-fiance had joined a swinger's website back in June '07.  Along with his profile, he had posted a picture.  The picture was only of his erect penis--not a photo showing a full view of himself . 

 

I realize you are not a psychologist, but with your experience and knowledge of swinging, can you tell me if this is typical of an individual who has a healthy interest in swinging? 

 

During the time of the discovery, I did view a few other profiles of people who had responded to him.  Most of those had photos which were not pictures of their sexual anantomy, but of themselves fully dressed and usually with their faces blocked or the picture was shot from just the neck down. Yes, some were provocative, but some were taken in typical everyday clothing. 

 

A lot of single guys when they first try to get into swinging think that the wives of couples in swinging are unsatisfied and just looking for a bigger penis, so they post a pic that says *look at mine*. That pic does not do anything for most of the ladies in swinging, they all know what one looks like. I do not think it can be termed healthy or unhealthy interest in swinging, it is more an uneducated, preconceived idea that an erect penis is all the swinging wife is looking for. Once someone is in swinging for any length of time they know that a full body shot, even with faces blocked, is more appealing to others. If a male is in the lifestyle for any length of time and still just has that pic as his only pic, he probably has an ego the size of Texas and will be ignored by most swingers.

 

You can understand why most swingers block their faces in pics if you have read the post on this list.

 

This, plus one other question still haunts me.  I just don't want to think that there is anything not healthy about this guy whom I once cared deeply for. 

 

Based on what I have read, exhibitionism is big for some (all?) individuals who enjoy swinging.  Is this correct?  And his desire to include a picture of only his genitals isn't indicative of anything else? 

 

Exhibitionism is a part of the lifestyle, it is the part that a lot of the women enjoy, like my wife said to me at the swingers bar we go to this last Saturday night *Where else can a 54 year old woman wear a sexy outfit and feel accepted*. There were about 25 women from ages 30 to 60 in sexy nighties, we have theme nights at the bar and this last weekend was *naughty nighties*

 

He has stated several times (since the end of our relationship) that he still cannot get the thought of swinging out of his head.  While we don't talk often anymore, he has admitted to recently being in touch (on-line) with a local couple who was interested in a single male for a 3-some.  I continue to be confused by his strong fascination because he has even stated that he would take his life if his daughters (ages 20, 23 and 26) ever found out of his interest.  His words continue to bother me--not because I would or will ever reveal anything to his daughters or anyone else for that matter--but because I would think that emotionally healthy individuals who decide to swing would not choose to do so with the thought of such a drastic consequence if their participation was ever discovered...right?  Wrong?

 

Talking about taking your own life is never a good sign of mental stability, regardless of the reason. Adult children finding out that a single parent is sexually active should not be a cause for suicide, no matter who the parent is being sexually active with.

 

I still fully realize that his interest in swinging is not what ended our relationship.  It was the fact that we did not have the loving, trusting and committed relationship that any healthy couple must have--whether they swing or not. 

 

If you happen to read this posting, any insight will be welcome.  Thank you
 
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cfnamier
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March 10, 2008, 1:33 pm PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: partystation

It is a choice we made to be in this lifestyle, and do in fact respect and understand peoples opinion about this matter Weve been swingers for several years, and realize theres much animosity among certain groups about this topic. Maybe to some degree, swingers are to blame. For example, weve seen entire hotels booked out for swinger parties. The rational among the party goers and host is that it is good for a business, but most quality businesses arent going to live and die by one party. But, some of the activity that goes on at these hotel parties could in fact harm a business over the long term.

 

However, for this reason neither of us attends hotel parties or swinger clubs. Our reasoning is based on the notion such parties and businesses tend to be a Black Eye on the community, and its not the communitys responsibility to understand swingers. Rather, its the swingers responsibility to understand and respect community standards. Accusing the community of being Uptight, is no better then the community blasting swingers on issues of morality.

 

The truth is though, most people we have come to know have been good family people, good earners, and very conscientious about the issue of sexually transmittable disease. So even though there are some within the lifestyle who give it a bad name, for the most part our experience has been the people are very sensible, and have a good wisdom for contentious and discrete behavior.

 

Some may call this rationalizing, but there are in fact positive rationales for the lifestyle. Like the before mentioned good friends, who are the types that are there through thick and thin. Yes, maybe for some it is all about sex, however for others it is also about the social element. Like many groups though, we have also met some immature ones prone to ridiculous drama. But then again, you can find this in many circles. In closing, it is a known fact the male in the relationship initiates the swinging, but the female is the one who makes the decision to stay in the lifestyle of leave. It is not however, a life for those with issues of jealousy or setting on a fragile relationship

.

 

 As a small business owner (non-swinging) and a former swinger bar owner I disagree with your line that we are in some way a *Black Eye* on the community. I had a bar that six days a week was open to the general public had the usual bar stuff karaoke two nights a week, poker three nights a week, pool leagues, and on Saturday night it was *couples only*. We were liked by the beat cops because we never in the two years we owned it had the police called for anything on a Saturday night, no fights, no drugs, no guns, nothing. As a bar owner you do get to know the cops on the beat, the cops want to know what type of crowd you draw and what is going on in their area. I have had cops tell me they wished they had all swingers bars because of the lack of hassles they cause. Ours was an off-premises set up so no sex happened in the bar, just flashing and discreet fondling.

 

As far as hotel parties, we have a group in our town that books out one of our better downtown hotels every other weekend, the hotel loves it. Normally they are only busy Sunday to Thursday for the business crowd. That is the people the hotel was built for and is quite busy during the week, by renting almost all the rooms and filling the bar every other Saturday night they turn dead nights into profit nights. They have to pay the staff, electric, heat and the rest of the overhead, will it make or break them, probably not but it does help the bottom line.

 

The problems in most hotel parties is when they are not fully booked by a single group and try to have swingers parties at the same time they have other patrons. I am sure that if you mix say bikers at a wedding and school teachers at a workshop you can have trouble

 
 
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partystation
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March 12, 2008, 11:24 pm PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: cfnamier

 As a small business owner (non-swinging) and a former swinger bar owner I disagree with your line that we are in some way a *Black Eye* on the community. I had a bar that six days a week was open to the general public had the usual bar stuff karaoke two nights a week, poker three nights a week, pool leagues, and on Saturday night it was *couples only*. We were liked by the beat cops because we never in the two years we owned it had the police called for anything on a Saturday night, no fights, no drugs, no guns, nothing. As a bar owner you do get to know the cops on the beat, the cops want to know what type of crowd you draw and what is going on in their area. I have had cops tell me they wished they had all swingers bars because of the lack of hassles they cause. Ours was an off-premises set up so no sex happened in the bar, just flashing and discreet fondling.

 

As far as hotel parties, we have a group in our town that books out one of our better downtown hotels every other weekend, the hotel loves it. Normally they are only busy Sunday to Thursday for the business crowd. That is the people the hotel was built for and is quite busy during the week, by renting almost all the rooms and filling the bar every other Saturday night they turn dead nights into profit nights. They have to pay the staff, electric, heat and the rest of the overhead, will it make or break them, probably not but it does help the bottom line.

 

The problems in most hotel parties is when they are not fully booked by a single group and try to have swingers parties at the same time they have other patrons. I am sure that if you mix say bikers at a wedding and school teachers at a workshop you can have trouble

 

Fully booked, not fully booked makes no difference, the general public can still walk in off the streets. To think otherwise is an erroneous and greedy presumption. A business is either zoned for adult entertainment or it is not. And regarding many of these swinger clubs, they have in fact been a serious back eye on communities. They are constantly in the news over controversy. For example, mainstream businesses complaining of beer bottles and undergarments being left in their parking lots. We have hosted numerous large swinger parties in bars, and made business owners a great deal of money. And if there is one thing we have learned, it would have to be that being a general manager or business owner, does not empower one to speak as to what is legal and what is not. If a local municipality knew what truly went on at these “booked out” Hotel Parties, they would shut the party down. These parties are in fact operating below the RADAR. So, your rational is more of the same old same old, which is Swingers wanting to be understood, but not trying to understand. But, then again we host our parties for fun, and not to pay our bills. So, I can see why some budding entrepreneurs would take exception to this reasoning. However, for discretionary reasons, its best that parties be kept mainstream, and the rest reserved for the privacy of ones home among legal and consenting adults. This way, you absolutely know you are not damaging any businesses good reputation. But, then again maybe some businesses perhaps have nothing to lose and desperately need the money. However, any business that desperate would never be a venue where we would be willing to host.

 
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March 13, 2008, 5:42 pm PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: partystation

Fully booked, not fully booked makes no difference, the general public can still walk in off the streets. To think otherwise is an erroneous and greedy presumption. A business is either zoned for adult entertainment or it is not. And regarding many of these swinger clubs, they have in fact been a serious back eye on communities. They are constantly in the news over controversy. For example, mainstream businesses complaining of beer bottles and undergarments being left in their parking lots. We have hosted numerous large swinger parties in bars, and made business owners a great deal of money. And if there is one thing we have learned, it would have to be that being a general manager or business owner, does not empower one to speak as to what is legal and what is not. If a local municipality knew what truly went on at these booked out Hotel Parties, they would shut the party down. These parties are in fact operating below the RADAR. So, your rational is more of the same old same old, which is Swingers wanting to be understood, but not trying to understand. But, then again we host our parties for fun, and not to pay our bills. So, I can see why some budding entrepreneurs would take exception to this reasoning. However, for discretionary reasons, its best that parties be kept mainstream, and the rest reserved for the privacy of ones home among legal and consenting adults. This way, you absolutely know you are not damaging any businesses good reputation. But, then again maybe some businesses perhaps have nothing to lose and desperately need the money. However, any business that desperate would never be a venue where we would be willing to host.

You know the only reason swing parties make the news is to drive ratings *sex sells*

 

If the Governor of NY had spent 80,000 on a new car nobody would even blink, if he spent it on a world wide fact finding junket there would be a few eyebrows raised, he spent it on a hooker and OH MY GOD HE HAS TO GO. Sex sells

 

I understand the general publics attitudes about almost any bar ... they cause trouble, they are a black eye to the moral standards of the moral majority

 

 any single theme bar, be they biker, cowboy, lesbian, gay, Latino, hip-hop, or swinger are even worse, You can open any one of these and someone will be upset, so what?

 

Do I care what the general population thinks about a swingers bar, not really. I care what the cop who comes in and out thinks, I care what the landlord who I pay my rent to every week thinks and I care what my patrons think. We are zoned as a bar ( big sign 21 or over to enter and a doorman to enforce it )  with 17 different levels of government looking over our shoulders so no nudity at the bar, but as long as the goodie bits are covered and we pay our taxes,  everybody is good with it.

 

The general public will never understand or approve of swinging, I know this I just do not care. I did not open a swingers bar for the general population I opened it so my friends and I would have a place to go and have a drink without the general population making faces as somebody kisses more ladies than just his own wife, or a wife flirts with whoever she want to flirt with.

 

 

 

 
 
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March 29, 2008, 6:47 pm PDT

life as a swinger

Quote From: cfnamier

You know the only reason swing parties make the news is to drive ratings *sex sells*

 

If the Governor of NY had spent 80,000 on a new car nobody would even blink, if he spent it on a world wide fact finding junket there would be a few eyebrows raised, he spent it on a hooker and OH MY GOD HE HAS TO GO. Sex sells

 

I understand the general publics attitudes about almost any bar ... they cause trouble, they are a black eye to the moral standards of the moral majority

 

 any single theme bar, be they biker, cowboy, lesbian, gay, Latino, hip-hop, or swinger are even worse, You can open any one of these and someone will be upset, so what?

 

Do I care what the general population thinks about a swingers bar, not really. I care what the cop who comes in and out thinks, I care what the landlord who I pay my rent to every week thinks and I care what my patrons think. We are zoned as a bar ( big sign 21 or over to enter and a doorman to enforce it )  with 17 different levels of government looking over our shoulders so no nudity at the bar, but as long as the goodie bits are covered and we pay our taxes,  everybody is good with it.

 

The general public will never understand or approve of swinging, I know this I just do not care. I did not open a swingers bar for the general population I opened it so my friends and I would have a place to go and have a drink without the general population making faces as somebody kisses more ladies than just his own wife, or a wife flirts with whoever she want to flirt with.

 

 

 

 

I met a man several years ago who I thought was a nice man....turned out he was married, cheating on his wife, PO Box number, he gave me his cell phone but never his home phone...the list could go on. To make a long story short, He eventually ( I guess) separtated/divorced her (they were both swingers) He kept "pushing" the swinging lifestyle down my throat (literally) , was into porn, cheated, lied....etc etc etc. So unfortunately, I have a REAL bad taste of the swinging world and what they are all about! I did notice that a lot of the places he visited were made up of "OLD people, out of shape, heavy, not attractive and he would brag to me how many women he "satisfied" over the years...how great they thought he was. etc etc.
He is now almost 70, looks like an old man, has no sexual attraction but yet he thinks he is Special, all his former wives/girlfriends still think he is special (so HE says).....Its pretty GROSS! Maybe in his younger days, he looked good....The problem I saw was he really did not have "friends"......just the ones he swang with and half of them he did not even remember their name. But yet many times would bring up to me in our relationship all the great parties, all the women he "conquered"...It made me want to get further and further away from him.
 
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April 13, 2008, 3:29 pm PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: workingal

I met a man several years ago who I thought was a nice man....turned out he was married, cheating on his wife, PO Box number, he gave me his cell phone but never his home phone...the list could go on. To make a long story short, He eventually ( I guess) separtated/divorced her (they were both swingers) He kept "pushing" the swinging lifestyle down my throat (literally) , was into porn, cheated, lied....etc etc etc. So unfortunately, I have a REAL bad taste of the swinging world and what they are all about! I did notice that a lot of the places he visited were made up of "OLD people, out of shape, heavy, not attractive and he would brag to me how many women he "satisfied" over the years...how great they thought he was. etc etc.
He is now almost 70, looks like an old man, has no sexual attraction but yet he thinks he is Special, all his former wives/girlfriends still think he is special (so HE says).....Its pretty GROSS! Maybe in his younger days, he looked good....The problem I saw was he really did not have "friends"......just the ones he swang with and half of them he did not even remember their name. But yet many times would bring up to me in our relationship all the great parties, all the women he "conquered"...It made me want to get further and further away from him.

Ok so you dated a cheater, not a swinger. If you met me, my wife would have called you and talked to you and if you were still interested we would have three way sex, that is if you were single and not part of a couple. In 20 years in the lifestyle I have not even one time had solo sex with a lady other than my wife. I have had sexy fun with 20 or 30 women other than my wife, but she was in the room every time and most of the time having sexy fun with the ladies hubby. That is swinging, two couples enjoying sexy fun together.

 

Just because HE says he is a swinger does not make it so, did you meet his wife? if not then he was not a swinger he was just a cheating husband.

 

Swinging is Consenual sex between couples, it is not Cheating on your spouse
 
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April 28, 2008, 9:44 pm PDT

compassion and humility

 Many people on this message board have blasted this poor woman Renee with low self-esteem when what we should all really show is some compassion towards her. There is clearly something in her past which caused her low self-esteem to begin with blasting her does not help it is only making you all feel better about yourselves.

As for these swingers, personally its not for me, what other people do is their business. However I will suggest this, humility and self-esteem are the same thing. If you are trying to find gratification from a variety of others even if only sexually all that is happening is that you are just trying to boost your own egos as humankind has done in a variety of ways since forever. Those of you who are defending your self-esteem are essentially doing the same thing. I do not mean to include family members in this as everyone needs love in their life however.

This is just my opinion feel free to disagree.
 
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May 29, 2008, 8:31 pm PDT

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

I don't feel that the "swingers" on this show were representative of most swingers, but then that is usually the case anytime the media tries to do a show on swingers.  Once upon a time more swingers felt they could be "out" about their lifestyle, but that was in the days of free-love and the "swinging" 60's.  This is now, when most swingers feel that if they were to come out about their lifestyle they would lose friends, family, and possibly even jobs.  That said, it really narrows your pool on who you can get to come out publicly on a talk show.

 

Oprah's show did a much better job of representing swingers, although it was still a bit lacking, at least it included a real swinging couple who were actually HAPPY with who they are and what they do.  By only choosing couples who are obviously not happy or who obviously should not be swinging to start with you set yourself up ..... well, that's pretty much the show we expected out of Dr. Phil.

 

Swinging is NOT for everyone or every couple.... and after watching the Dr. Phil show, it was obvious that it really wasn't for either of the couples he had on their either.  What the first couple lacked was communication.  They were happy to start with but as tends to happen in their situation (doing it for the woman to be with other women) the guy gets a bit jealous after a while and he wants some action too.  Understandable, but he should have communicated that as things progressed not played passive aggressive games with her until it caused issues.  With the second couple, that guy was an ass.  The advice he would get from me is that he needs to make a decision. What is more important to him, his marriage or his fantasy.  And as for her, she just needs to get up and leave because he does not respect her in any way.
 
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workingal
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June 15, 2008, 7:33 pm PDT

a thought

Quote From: justaskjulie

I don't feel that the "swingers" on this show were representative of most swingers, but then that is usually the case anytime the media tries to do a show on swingers.  Once upon a time more swingers felt they could be "out" about their lifestyle, but that was in the days of free-love and the "swinging" 60's.  This is now, when most swingers feel that if they were to come out about their lifestyle they would lose friends, family, and possibly even jobs.  That said, it really narrows your pool on who you can get to come out publicly on a talk show.

 

Oprah's show did a much better job of representing swingers, although it was still a bit lacking, at least it included a real swinging couple who were actually HAPPY with who they are and what they do.  By only choosing couples who are obviously not happy or who obviously should not be swinging to start with you set yourself up ..... well, that's pretty much the show we expected out of Dr. Phil.

 

Swinging is NOT for everyone or every couple.... and after watching the Dr. Phil show, it was obvious that it really wasn't for either of the couples he had on their either.  What the first couple lacked was communication.  They were happy to start with but as tends to happen in their situation (doing it for the woman to be with other women) the guy gets a bit jealous after a while and he wants some action too.  Understandable, but he should have communicated that as things progressed not played passive aggressive games with her until it caused issues.  With the second couple, that guy was an ass.  The advice he would get from me is that he needs to make a decision. What is more important to him, his marriage or his fantasy.  And as for her, she just needs to get up and leave because he does not respect her in any way.

I am in a situation where the guy I am dating now was at one time a swinger. Now I am beginning to understand why - Is it possible for men swingers to sometimes go to the Bi side - whereas they enjoy looking at men! This guy will say that a man he saw was "attractive", etc etc. Sounds kind of BI to me!
He still thinks he is Mr Good looking - NOT!

Just seeing him nude is a real turn off - however, his ex swinging days are still in his mind I think.

I am NOT interested in swinging AT ALL! Been there - done that. It was pretty disgusting to Me.
 
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August 12, 2008, 9:19 am PDT

your veiw on swinging sucks

Now don't get me wrong... some might think that going to a club and sleeping with what was it.....? 2 cpls in the last 12 yrs is swinging.. that's not swinging. that's having a social life with open minded friends and having a fling with one or two of them... and the other cpl on that show.. what a joke... i agree with Phil that that's not swinging and it's abuse.. and i hope she dropped his ass off at baggage claim for good when they got home.  next time you want a view of a swingers life... find better people to come on the show to help with real questions and answers... it's shows that 'show' swinging in that view that make people afraid of it and look down on it. i had sooo many people accuse my husb of forcing it on my after the show and abusive husb and wife that i just said hey.. i go out more then he does so get the facts straight before you start putting your foot in your mouth and having to say ohhhh i'm sorry i had it wrong...
 
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