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Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

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Created on : Saturday, September 29, 2007, 09:23:47 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
How well do you think you know your neighbors, your friends and even your child's teacher? It is estimated that four to eight million people in North America are swinging in the suburbs -- mostly middle-class folks from all walks of life. Dr. Phil gives you a closer look at who these couples are who engage in sex with other twosomes. First up, Nita and Walter have been swinging for the last 12 years. They say they are happy in the lifestyle, so why does it cause tension in their relationship? Then, Brent says he has a strong yearning for he and his wife, Renee, to participate in a threesome. Renee says the idea disgusts her, but worries that if she refuses to join in, Brent will leave her. They fight constantly, often dragging their 17-year-old son into the middle of their chaos. Brent says he thinks about having threesomes every other day, but says that his desire is normal. What does Dr. Phil think? And, Dr. Phil viewers weigh in and share their thoughts about the swinging lifestyle. Join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.
As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

 
lacylane67
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January 22, 2008, 11:03 pm PST

suburban swinger

i am a swinger , my husband and i have been in the lifestyle now for 12yrs and love it . it has enhanced our sex life and brings us both joy and happyness. i think alot of people are amazed to find out that us swingers are everyday people ( doctors,lawyers, teachers,moms., dads ) iam in the medical feild as well . i think it is unrealistic to believe that two people can stay married for so many years and not have sex with anyone else just your spouse . swinging keeps the cheatting down,. both people are involved and no lies or secrets you  have to figure out . both people know whats happining and whats not happing ,. another miss conception about swingers is that men make us do it ,. women are the ones who act first not the men  and no means no , everyone as repect for that ,. we have been to alot of parties and never have had any problems in 12 yrs another point to make is just because you have children doesnt mean you stop having sex. being married and all you still want to be intimate from time to time , my husband and i go to a party or a motel twice a month this is our get away time . to have fun or drink and do  whatever we are going to do. this in no way is a reflection on my children or my job or anything else that is going on in my life . this keeps the sparks flying, makes things new, and keeps us feeling young . if it works for us and the millions of swingers out there what diffrents does it make.
 
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vabtrfly
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January 22, 2008, 11:56 pm PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: rubicon05

 It just so happens that my best friend is engaged to a man who indulged in the swinging lifestyle with his last wife. They were married 22+ years and were swingers for the last 5 years of that marriage. What brought an end to that marriage?? Swinging. What began as a consensual agreement between married partners ended up a nightmare. Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst.  My friends fiance opted out of the lifestyle and his x-wife chose to continue with many extra marital affairs to satisfy her addiction. The marriage ended because of this. If you asked him today, he would tell you how much he regrets his choice to swing. The definition of fantasy is described as such...

You said it....affairs ended this marriage, not swinging! Cheating on your spouse is a problem in non -swinging relationships also! 'Swinging' is an activity enjoyed by both the husband and the wife, cheating is something you do without the consent or knowledge of your spouse!

 

Many swingers become so enmeshed within their fantasy life that they fail to function in real life without it. These "fantasies" that swingers hide behind are merely a justification for what amounts to sexual addiction at best, and mentally disordered at worst. Where do you get this information from? Is this fact or opinion? If it is opinion,what is the basis?  I do agree that ANYONE who might have problems distinguishing between reality and fantasy does have a problem.

 

There is nothing wrong with "fantasy" and being able to share fantasies with your spouse IS healthy. However, "acting" upon it no longer qualifies it as a fantasy. #1I know many "non' swinging couples who are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another, and they have very meaningful and close relationships with each other. That has nothing to do with sharing one's body with strangers.  #2 It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together, and wouldn't have the need or desire to masturbate using an outsiders body. And no, this isn't from a religious stand point. It's from a purely clinical one.

 #1 You are correct...my husband and I  'are able to share deep feelings, thoughts, fantasies with one another' and we '  have very meaningful and close relationships with each other'  and that has nothing to do with the fact that we occasionally share our bodies with (non) strangers.

#2' It's about the willingness and ability to communicate openly and effectively. It's about respect, trust, and commitment. If you truly love your spouse. If you truly have fantastic intimacy... If your sex life IS and always has been awesome... If you have total respect and trust for each other.... it stands to reason that you should feel completely satisfied with your spouse and the life you've made together '  Agreed...should and do! But...what do you mean by 'masturbate using an outsiders body' ? 

mas·tur·ba·tion  audio  (mstr-bshn) KEY  

NOUN:

Excitation of one's own or another's genital organs, usually to orgasm, by manual contact or means other than sexual intercourse. Is this what you meant? Hmmm...never thought about it as 'masturbate using an outsiders body'  I guess this is what we have done...a couple of times with 'an outsiders body'  We usually include intercourse too, though. And....my husband and I do 'masturbate using ' using each others bodies when it's just the 2 of us!  I know...I just take issue with the phrase that you elected to use. Why not just say sex with an outsider?

I take offense at everything in your last paragraph....

Responsible parenting should be the objective for all parents regardless of their sexual preferences. I think that children should be taught to respect the relationship between the parents and their privacy. That said...I know for a fact that most kids are snoops by nature.  I have always kept my bedroom door closed and inside is a closet that is always locked. My hubby and I have always taken naked pics of each other and once long ago a video was made...all in the closet. Also in the closet is my laptop, any other objects related to our private lives and  that is where I keep banking and credit records which I also consider private. This is how it has always been in our home , even before we began 'to masturbate using an outsiders body'   Surely there are things that you keep private.

I do not hide what I do, what we do...out of the context of sex it is not Necessary or prudent for anyone to know what goes on behind closed doors. The difference between secrecy and privacy is a matter of shame...I have nothing that I feel ashamed of. I sincerely hope you don't either.

 

 

 

Without picking apart your post piece by piece.... (I just don't have that kind of time, sorry.)

 

In short... for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning. That's not a guess, it is fact. Often times, serious personality disorders and/or sexual addictions are at the forefront of such sexual behaviors. Once these addictions/disorders are fed, they become habit. Just like any other "junkie" people will do whatever is necessary to get their "fix." In the case I stated, it most definitely was the swinging that ended the marriage. Why? Because the mere act of swinging blurred the lines between acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior. It stretched an already overly thin boundary to it's breaking point to satisfy an addiction.

 

As far as the masturbation statement...

 

When one engages in sexual gratification with another person whom they do not have an emotional and/or strong physical connection, it quite simply is.... nothing more than the act of using someone elses body for the purposes of maturbation. There is no true intimacy with a stranger, therefore it becomes nothing short of a sexual release. Much like a teenage boy thumbing through a Playboy magazine and masturbating at the images he sees. It is a purely mechanical behavior with the end result being sexual gratification. The same may be said of people who prefer to watch their spouses engaging in sexual activities with someone else.

If you believe that you and your husband are using each other's bodies to maturbate with, then maybe you don't share as strong a bond with each other as you claim. If there is no difference in the type of sexual satisfaction/intimacy that you share with your spouse than with the strangers that you meet online or at some swingers club.... you have just proved my point.

 

Addressing the issue of children again... is your need for sexual pleasure so much more important than your children? Scenario: A friend of your child's stumbles upon information that you thought you covered up and hid behind locked doors. This friend decides to share said information say, at school for instance. Before you know it, your child is being ridiculed by schoolmates because of your choices. Is that fair??? I know,  right now you're thinking,"that would never happen!" Yes, it most certainly can. It most certainly has. This is probably the least of bad things that could happen.

 

Where my opinions are based from??? Well documented studies of sexual addiction, as well as the DSM (Diagnostics and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) The terms: sexual promiscuity/deviancy (including by not limited to multiple partners, orgies, etc.) impulsivity, obsessed with fantasies of unlimited sexual performance, etc. start to jump right off the page at you. It's all there in black and white.

 

 

 

 
 
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botpeg
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January 23, 2008, 7:56 am PST

Newly married daughter in "open marriage"

We found out a month before my daughter's wedding that she and her fiance had an ''open relationship". Apparently, he "sprung" his already-existing lifestyle on her AFTER they were engaged and living together. I heard (from my daughter's best friend) that my daughter was initially upset and considered leaving the relationship, but ultimately decided to ''try" the lifestyle so as to keep her relationship with this man. They are now on the internet EVERY day in dating sites and sleep with different people all of the time. My daughter claims to ''love" the lifestyle now.  We feel the marriage is a total sham and have told them this. Now, we are estranged from both of them. We cannot accept that the marriage as legitimate and they cannot accept our rejection of their lifestyle. I am devastated at losing my relationship with my daughter, but am repulsed and disgusted. I am also fearful for her safety and have told her so. She just dismisses our concerns as being judgemental. Anyone have any similar experiences, or any advice?
 
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January 23, 2008, 9:51 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

In short... for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning. That's not a guess, it is fact.

 

I disagree with human conditioning, it may stretch boundaries beyond the norm of your social or religious conditioning, but my human conditioning says I am a sexual being. As a sexual being and I thank God for that, he could have made us like animals , only sexual at certain times or seasons. That is part of being human.

 

As far as the masturbation statement...

 

When one engages in sexual gratification with another person whom they do not have an emotional and/or strong physical connection, it quite simply is.... nothing more than the act of using someone else's body for the purposes of masturbation. There is no true intimacy with a stranger, therefore it becomes nothing short of a sexual release.

 

As swingers we do not swing with other couples we do not know and like. We go to their house or they come to ours and we have dinner, share some jokes, maybe even play some cards. We like the other couple, I like both of them, my wife likes both of them, and they both like both of us because if anyone of us feels uneasy the evening stops right there. We do not swing with anyone who is stressed to be there, why would we? We are there to have fun and sex.

 

Most people seem to just focus on the sexual interaction, there is true friendship and caring between the couples we play with and us. Most of our close friends, the kind of friends that would help you bury the body type, have started within the context of swinging. We can be more open and honest with them about all that happens in our lives than we can be with "vanilla" friends, they are a lot less judgmental.

 

Go to any "vanilla" social event and watch the reaction to a sexy lady entering the room, some folks will almost shun her, others will almost drool, neither would happen at a swingers event. She would be allowed to be sexy and who she is.

 

Vanilla is a term in the swing world to describe non-swingers and I won't go into what "pistachio" means LOL
 
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January 23, 2008, 10:25 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: botpeg

We found out a month before my daughter's wedding that she and her fiance had an ''open relationship". Apparently, he "sprung" his already-existing lifestyle on her AFTER they were engaged and living together. I heard (from my daughter's best friend) that my daughter was initially upset and considered leaving the relationship, but ultimately decided to ''try" the lifestyle so as to keep her relationship with this man. They are now on the internet EVERY day in dating sites and sleep with different people all of the time. My daughter claims to ''love" the lifestyle now.  We feel the marriage is a total sham and have told them this. Now, we are estranged from both of them. We cannot accept that the marriage as legitimate and they cannot accept our rejection of their lifestyle. I am devastated at losing my relationship with my daughter, but am repulsed and disgusted. I am also fearful for her safety and have told her so. She just dismisses our concerns as being judgemental. Anyone have any similar experiences, or any advice?

Get over it and love your daughter. Unless they bring it to family functions, what business is her sex life to you? She is an adult, she makes her own choices. Your job is to give her a soft place to fall if or when she needs you too.

 

Our kids have gone through times in their lives and done things we did not approve of and thinking back my wife and I have both had done things back in the 60's that our folks did not approve of. We were still loved by our folks and still loved our kids through those times. At this time you say you are estrange from her, what does that help?

 

 

 
 
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January 23, 2008, 11:16 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: cfnamier

Get over it and love your daughter. Unless they bring it to family functions, what business is her sex life to you? She is an adult, she makes her own choices. Your job is to give her a soft place to fall if or when she needs you too.

 

Our kids have gone through times in their lives and done things we did not approve of and thinking back my wife and I have both had done things back in the 60's that our folks did not approve of. We were still loved by our folks and still loved our kids through those times. At this time you say you are estrange from her, what does that help?

 

 

 

I don't want to be estranged from her. I have told her that I will always love her. She only wants to see us if we "accept" her marriage.  How can anyone view this as  a marriage?
 
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January 23, 2008, 11:28 am PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: jjpoplin

I am a 22 year old married woman and I couldn't imagin being  with any other man or allowing my husband to be with another woman. Once you get married you are supposed to forsake all others not sleep with all your friends or any one else. To me the romantic part of my marriage is private and that is something that I will not share with any one else because I love my husband and I took vows for better or worse. I just think that if you are truely happy in your marriage your spouse should be enough for you and if they are not then you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. If you are content with your marriage then you should not have to turn to others for sexual satisfication. I was always taught that even if you think about what it would be like to be another person, other than your spouse, than that is considered cheating. I just strongly feel that if you are married than you don't need porn, or other people to satisfy your sexual needs.

I wish my daghter thought like you. She is 25, just got married....has an open relationship, and we are sick about it. It has torn our family apart.  People keep telling me to mind my own busness....but this is absolutely heartsickening to a mother. I worry about her getting an STD or getting beaten up by somene she meets through the internet....

I commend you for your values....please stick to them and be proud of them!!!!
 
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January 23, 2008, 11:39 am PST

Swinging lifestyle

     I have also recently found out that i have an aunt and uncle involved in this activity. I believe they got in to under what was described as the wrong circumstances. Marriage is between one man and one woman. You promise to be true to that one person til death do you part. If your sex life starts to get boring,watch movies, dress up as someone different, use different techniques. YOu married that one person because they were the only person you wanted to be with for the rest of your life. Marriage is a comittment and you cant turn to things like sleeping with other ppl. when you get bored with that comittment. I dont view this as right in any way. What happens when one person doesnt feel comfortable anymore with the lifestyle. Then the other wants to continue. Its like you have already given them permission to go around and sleep with whoever they want too, so your feelings on this have put you in a gray area. I do not mean to offend anyoen who choses this lifestyle. I am only saying that if you marry someone you married that one person not that person and all ofther couples who have a problem with fidelity.
 
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January 23, 2008, 12:55 pm PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: botpeg

I don't want to be estranged from her. I have told her that I will always love her. She only wants to see us if we "accept" her marriage.  How can anyone view this as  a marriage?
I'm not sure why this should be such an issue.  I do understand your concerns for your daughter and I hope that she is being cautious in every way as most swingers do.  I don't understand why your daughter is choosing to push this on you.  My husband and I are swingers and my mother knows but it is something that is rarely discussed between us.  She doesn't agree with it but has made the statement that it is our choice.  If there is any way possible, you and your daughter need to find a way to get past her choice and still have a relationship.  Life is too short and I would hate for either of you to hold regrets later on.
 
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January 23, 2008, 2:18 pm PST

01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Quote From: bearcourage

I'm not sure why this should be such an issue.  I do understand your concerns for your daughter and I hope that she is being cautious in every way as most swingers do.  I don't understand why your daughter is choosing to push this on you.  My husband and I are swingers and my mother knows but it is something that is rarely discussed between us.  She doesn't agree with it but has made the statement that it is our choice.  If there is any way possible, you and your daughter need to find a way to get past her choice and still have a relationship.  Life is too short and I would hate for either of you to hold regrets later on.
I know you're right. I hope, in time, I'll be able to see it this way. I just feel in my heart that this is not really the life she wanted (because her fiance basically gave her an ultimatum, although she doesn;t view it this way). I feel her low self esteem propelled her to go along with him just to keep him.  She's grown up, though, and....as you say, it is he choice to make.
 
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