Topic : 01/25 Secrets in the Suburbs

Without picking apart your post piece by piece.... (I just don't have that kind of time, sorry.)

In short... for people to engage in the swinging lifestyle, it is necessary to stretch boundaries beyond the norm of human conditioning. That's not a guess, it is fact. Often times, serious personality disorders and/or sexual addictions are at the forefront of such sexual behaviors. Once these addictions/disorders are fed, they become habit. Just like any other "junkie" people will do whatever is necessary to get their "fix." In the case I stated, it most definitely was the swinging that ended the marriage. Why? Because the mere act of swinging blurred the lines between acceptable vs. unacceptable behavior. It stretched an already overly thin boundary to it's breaking point to satisfy an addiction.

As far as the masturbation statement...

When one engages in sexual gratification with another person whom they do not have an emotional and/or strong physical connection, it quite simply is.... nothing more than the act of using someone elses body for the purposes of maturbation. There is no true intimacy with a stranger, therefore it becomes nothing short of a sexual release. Much like a teenage boy thumbing through a Playboy magazine and masturbating at the images he sees. It is a purely mechanical behavior with the end result being sexual gratification. The same may be said of people who prefer to watch their spouses engaging in sexual activities with someone else.

If you believe that you and your husband are using each other's bodies to maturbate with, then maybe you don't share as strong a bond with each other as you claim. If there is no difference in the type of sexual satisfaction/intimacy that you share with your spouse than with the strangers that you meet online or at some swingers club.... you have just proved my point.

Addressing the issue of children again... is your need for sexual pleasure so much more important than your children? Scenario: A friend of your child's stumbles upon information that you thought you covered up and hid behind locked doors. This friend decides to share said information say, at school for instance. Before you know it, your child is being ridiculed by schoolmates because of your choices. Is that fair??? I know,  right now you're thinking,"that would never happen!" Yes, it most certainly can. It most certainly has. This is probably the least of bad things that could happen.

Where my opinions are based from??? Well documented studies of sexual addiction, as well as the DSM (Diagnostics and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) The terms: sexual promiscuity/deviancy (including by not limited to multiple partners, orgies, etc.) impulsivity, obsessed with fantasies of unlimited sexual performance, etc. start to jump right off the page at you. It's all there in black and white.

People who swing have ultra low self esteem and turn to activities that lower that esteem even more.

I disagree with human conditioning, it may stretch boundaries beyond the norm of your social or religious conditioning

Exactly where did I say social or religious conditioning? I said human.

As a sexual being and I thank God for that, he could have made us like animals , only sexual at certain times or seasons. That is part of being human.

Having an isatiable appetite for sexual gratification is an animalistic behavior. It brings one down to an animal like state. When I say insatiable, I mean quite frankly, that your sexual appetitte can not be satisfied by your spouse which is WHY you choose the lifestyle. And for the record, there are many species of animal that mate for life, so your comparison is rudimentary at best. There are however, species of monkey that engage in sexual behaviors for anything but, procreation. Hmm....

We do not swing with anyone who is stressed to be there, why would we? We are there to have fun and sex.

Of course not. You find like minded people who are also sexually insatiable and you feed off of each other's wants.

Most of our close friends, the kind of friends that would help you bury the body type, have started within the context of swinging. We can be more open and honest with them about all that happens in our lives than we can be with "vanilla" friends, they are a lot less judgmental.

So what you're saying is that swingers basically have no boundaries??? Isn't that what I said???

"Help you hide the body types" as opposed to doing the right thing? How could other swingers be judgmental? They are afterall, engaged in the same behaviors as you, correct???

Go to any "vanilla" social event and watch the reaction to a sexy lady entering the room, some folks will almost shun her, others will almost drool, neither would happen at a swingers event. She would be allowed to be sexy and who she is.

This is a highly unlikely scenario for many reasons. Swingers are not lacking in jealousy, envy, or haughtiness. "Vanilla" folks don't have a market on those emotions. I have interviewed hundreds of people in the lifestyle (for a college thesis on human sexuality) and from what I've been told there is an enormous amount of jealousy, pettiness, envy, and separatism based on outward appearances. I mean think about it... would anyones real sexual fantasy involve a rotund, unattractive woman? Or a short, balding, unattractive man? I doubt it based on my research. As a matter of fact, I found that most swingers are either.... middle aged and less than average in appearance or young and totally lacking in maturity and experience. They often times engage in sex with people who they see as below themselves (whether that be physically, intellectually, or fianancially.) This from the horses mouth.

Vanilla is a term in the swing world to describe non-swingers and I won't go into what "pistachio" means LOL

Don't you mean un-evolved? It seems to me that there is a fair amount of judgment from your side as well.

You said human conditioning and I still disagree with that. Humans are not by nature monogamous that is why we make up social and/or religious contracts. If we were monogamous by nature those would not be needed.

As far as being insatiable, I do like to have at least one orgasm per day and sometimes two or three. I think that puts me in the highly sexed but not insatiable range.

As far as friends who would help me bury the body, some of them would even let me plant it on their property LOL

As far as what you learned about swinging through interviews for a paper, I have been in the swinging lifestyle with my wife for 20 years, and for 2 of those years owned a bar that was known as a "swingers bar"(couples only on Saturday night), so I think I will take my "hands on" knowledge over your interviews.

As far as we swing with people we see as below ourselves that is just wrong. We have partied with a wide variety of folks, up and down the scale. that is rarely even thought about. I am only interested in swinging with folks that desire to swing with us.

I am sure when the show airs (here it is at 3 pm Friday) Dr. Phil will bring out folks who have no business in the lifestyle we enjoy and I will watch it a say to myself  "he is an ass and wants to, she doesn't, so they should not do it" just like the rest of the viewers. Dr Phil is not going to show anything positive about swinging, but I still agree with about 75% of what he puts on.

Most people should not try swinging, it is dangerous. Most people should live their lives straight and clean and reverent, I do not mind being in the minority.

Well I am going to leave this board for a while, we have a date this Saturday night with another couple and I will assure you all we will have fun and sex.

Peace