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Topic : 10/09 The Dr. Phil House: Man Camp Newlyweds, Part 4

Number of Replies: 65
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Created on : Friday, October 05, 2007, 11:18:23 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Dr. Phil continues his work with three couples on the verge of divorce after less than one year of marriage. They say they want to be spared from divorce, yet once they are all under one roof they only whine and complain. Jim and Kim continue to fight, even on the morning of her birthday. Instead of a nice birthday greeting, Jim starts an argument with his wife because he thinks he’s the one who deserves “a present.” Dr. Phil gives Jim a taste of his own medicine –- some immersion therapy! Then, Karla claims she’s now permanently on the wagon, but Dr. Phil tells her that kicking an alcohol addiction just isn’t that simple. Plus, a role-playing exercise, a surprise for the wives and more! Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 10, 2007, 5:42 am CDT

AMEN, SISTER!

Quote From: shahzadee4

I don't beleive in wasting money and thats what that was. Iunderstand that it was needed, but water would have looked the same.

To help these people GROW UP and WAKE UP, he should have had them make a donation (walk it over) to a nearby women's shelter or another worthy cause.

 

THERE is NEVER an excuse for flushing money down the toilet, not even drug money. He could have made his point in a much better (MORE MATURE & COMPASSIONATE) way.

 

It was an IMMATURE way to make a point, which defeats the point!!!

 
October 10, 2007, 7:38 am CDT

What the.....?

All,

 

Is it just me or does it seem that "Man Camp" has become "Man bashing Camp"?  All we see is Dr Phil going agressively at only one side -- the guys.  It seems like everything that ever happened is blamed on the guys by both the wives and Dr Phil.  Admittedly, they are jerks and it is called "Man Camp", but a relationship in crisis has contributions from both sides.  He points out how terrible it is for men to be calling their wives names, but ignores the video of the wives doing the exact same thing.  The wives secretly look in on their husbands bad mouthing the spouses and comment on how they feel about that,  but when the wives do virtually the same thing at the end, the men aren't given the same opportunity.  There's comment and feedback given on what the women want from the men but not much on what the men need from their wives.  If you want to help a couple, help both sides.  And why deliberately provoke conflict by sending the women out to celebrate the birthday when most couples like to go out as a couple on birthdays.  I'd probably react the same way -- I'd be royally ticked.  I'm just plain old disappointed with where this is going.

 
October 10, 2007, 11:22 am CDT

Get In Line For the Booze!!

Quote From: flthomcat

To help these people GROW UP and WAKE UP, he should have had them make a donation (walk it over) to a nearby women's shelter or another worthy cause.

 

THERE is NEVER an excuse for flushing money down the toilet, not even drug money. He could have made his point in a much better (MORE MATURE & COMPASSIONATE) way.

 

It was an IMMATURE way to make a point, which defeats the point!!!

I don't know about California but  here in New York we have a little thing called a Liquor License that you must have to sell alcohol.  I am wondering how you figure he could have converted that booze into money. I think that all of you who are so worried about the plight of the poor should give a donation to your area food pantry.   And then maybe you all could get on a waiting list and next time he could make his point by mailing you the booze.  Waste not!  Want not!
 
October 10, 2007, 2:50 pm CDT

10/09 The Dr. Phil House: Man Camp Newlyweds, Part 4

This show was almost hard to watch. Where in these couple minds did they think, yeah lets get married sounds like a good idea. Their problems didn't start after marriage. If any man ever talked to me the way those men talk to their wives I would of kicked them to the curb immediately. How can you ever make a marriage work that has absolutely no respect in it. I can't imagine coming home to someone like that every day. Just get a divorce the marriages should of never happened anyway.
 
October 10, 2007, 4:30 pm CDT

10/09 The Dr. Phil House: Man Camp Newlyweds, Part 4

Quote From: monika2000

It absolutely makes me sick to these couples holding hands and why in the hell are they trying to stay together. If somebody, especially my husband called just one of those names, I'm outa there.

Is everybody goin nuts in this world. Whatever happened to true love and respect? These people should NOT be together, especially when there are children ivolved. Come on Dr. Phil, can't  you see this?

I have to disagree with some of your viewpoint.  It is this "give up and move on" attitude that has America's divorce rate at 50%.  I do agree that these couples need some serious help.  There is no way I would allow my husband to call me names or treat me like that.  They all obviously have some serious issues and their children should be taken away if they continue in this manner.  However, if Dr. Phil can help them to overcome their problems and teach them how to be parents and healthy couples, it would be much better for their children to have both parents at home than to be put through a divorce.  What happened to "till death do you part"?

.

 
October 10, 2007, 4:49 pm CDT

SIL

Quote From: fromthesquare

Peace!!
Duh! LOL
 
October 10, 2007, 5:25 pm CDT

Where are the MEN at "Mancamp"?

My brother believes that REAL men protect women, they do not harm them.  I agree.

Dr. Phil stated that when women are respected and loved, they reciprocate that treatment.

 

When women define themselves with dignity and composure, and set limits with bullies, THEN we may see men "grow up."   But you cannot demand maturity, from men or from fruit on a tree!  It takes time.

 

I am always curious why Dr. Phil does not ask these "men" how their fathers modeled respecting women?    My guess is that their faces would be blank.   Abuse is learned and must be un-learned.

 
October 10, 2007, 5:35 pm CDT

Beneath the surface...

Quote From: dadn2girls

Profile of Jack and Danielle.

 

Jack - Good guy, smart, handsome (looks like Donnie Osmond), honorable (he got married), insecure (he married beneath him), egotistical (he thinks he can change her).

 

Danielle - Manipulative, secretive, untrustworthy, attractive but not beautiful (this is important).

 

Jack hooks up with Danielle, she's hot enough but she's also a party girl and likes to drink and fall down sometimes.  Jack thinks "Not exactly what I want but workable".  Bad idea from the start.  People do not change each other, people only change themselves with the assistance of time and experience.  They are both young, time and experience is not even close to finished with them yet.  Jack gets Danielle home only to find out that she lies, she drinks too much, and she keeps secrets.  Jack attempts to get at the bottom of the problem through honest communication only Jack is not mature enough to handle the truth.  The problem begins here but it is a simple enough one to solve, just stop doing the things you do Danielle.  But wait!  Danielle CAN'T stop doing what she does because Danielle LIKES to do what she does.  She likes it so much that she has concocted a nice little excuse (the big secret) to excuse her actions. 

 

Jack and Danielle come to Dr. Phil's man camp.  Jack is smart, he knows what's going on but he is also egotistical and shares it with (stupidly) with the other couples.  This slows down the process.  The men are upset because they just want to get this over with and go back home.  The women are upset because.....well....women like to be upset, and that's what they came there to do.  Dr. Phil is upset because it suits his demographic for him to be upset.  Everyone jumps on Jack, Jack jumps on Danielle.  Jack thinks, "Hey, if we are really here to get help then lets get some help.  Let's get some help about that little secret that you use to excuse your behavior"  Danielle is not having it.  She watches as everyone in the house jumps on Jack and you can almost see her cry as she realizes that this is all happening NOT because her husband is a jerk but because she really IS what her husband is telling everyone she is. 

 

It was not Jack that isolated Danielle in order to abuse her, it was Danielle that turned the common respect that any person would give another when discussing something private to isolate and abuse Jack by not allowing him to disclose the so-called "secret" that would, in his mind, be the key to solving their, or at least his, marital problems.  It bothers her yes, it doesn't bother her enough to confess though.  Jack is a man, he can take it, and even if he can't, he's a man, men have not done her any favors ever.

 

It brings to mind a question.  Which is better, to be ugly or to be almost beautiful?  Ugly women have to get on with life but the almost beautiful must always look at the world through almost beautiful eyes.  Danielle knows that Jack can do better that's why she isn't going to change for him.  Jack just wants to get beyond the whole relationship thing, get things settled, and get on with the rest of his life, he is a man after all.  Dr. Phil is wasting his time, this marriage will not turn out well, but it's good for ratings and it got me off the couch and registered onto his site to post so......it was a good show!

 

Jack is confused right now but things are becoming clearer day by day.  He will go along with this farce to get himself and his woman safely home.  A year from now he will come up with an even different plan.  Unfortunately the answer he comes up with a year from now won't be the right one either.  He really needs to learn how to just live his life and stop worrying about what she does.  In the end she will either come around or find her way to the door.  It's the kids that are important.  I know, I've been Jack.

 

Man camp indeed.  I got your man camp.  Don't do anything just because they ask you to, only do what is right, understand that there are WAY more fish in the sea and realize that the person you are with speaks volumes about the person that you are.  You want a better life, a better woman, a better situation, be a better person.  Don't feel like being a better person? (you're allowed) but then you must stop holding others up to standards that you yourself can not live up to, that's a childs issue.  Man camp is adjourned.

Jack's looks are unimportant.   It is his behavior that is at issue.  He is not a brave little soldier.   He is a manipulative bully who does not respect women.  The other males also disrespect women.   No woman in her right mind would accept one minute of their behavior!  These people were probably selected to represent the worst in us.   Now that we have watched the worst, let's hope we can see something better.

 

 

 

 

 
October 10, 2007, 11:56 pm CDT

10/09 The Dr. Phil House: Man Camp Newlyweds, Part 4

Quote From: readmore

Jack's looks are unimportant.   It is his behavior that is at issue.  He is not a brave little soldier.   He is a manipulative bully who does not respect women.  The other males also disrespect women.   No woman in her right mind would accept one minute of their behavior!  These people were probably selected to represent the worst in us.   Now that we have watched the worst, let's hope we can see something better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree 100% on everything you have said except that Jack's looks are unimportant.  Perceptions play a huge factor in relationships.  What was it I heard once?  It is the person who cares the least who has the most power?  There is the truth and then there is what we tell ourselves.  The truth is that you know immediately who has the upper hand in a relationship based on their ability to leave when and if they want to.  If Jack or any of these guys were unattractive men these women would have either broken them by now or left them long ago.  In each case however it is clear to see that these men have "keeper" qualities about them and that is what begins the struggle for power in even the most functional of relationships.  Add alcohol or drugs to that mix and it is a sure fire recipe for disaster as those things only provide us with an escape, excuse, or justification for our otherwise uncomely behavior.

 

I'm not saying that the men are innocent either.  Often times men will pick or stay with women who they think they are below them on purpose just so they don't have to live up to any kind of standard either.  This is a sign of insecurity and/or laziness even though the woman may be attractive or a good mother or have some other commendable quality, there can always be seen some major flaw that lets the insecure/lazy man off the hook from being all that he could be.  As these men evolve into confident beings they will accept less and less of the manipulation that is being heaped upon them and eventually they will either leave or become real bullies.

 

The plan for now though is to break them by any possible means so that these women can have their cake and eat it too.  I just hope that Doc is manipulating the situation the way that I think he is and not genuinely convinced that fixing these men is going to fix those women.  At best all I can think that he can hope for is to show the men that they do not need to drop to such standards to keep that which does not deserve to be kept.

 

At the end of the day some people are just bad you know?  Calling Jack or any of those other guys bully's is like calling a cornered rat a savage beast.  Men love their children too, they want their families to stay together, they respect the sanctity of marriage, and they rage against anything and everything that threatens to do harm to those things.  Our worst fault is that we may not or can not believe that there are women out there in the world who don't share these feelings with us when we finally do decide to commit and that when we run into them we don't know quite how to handle it.  This is where the aggression begins. 

 

Besides, bullies don't come to the Dr. Phil show.  They don't keep their wives little secrets and they don't get confused about what to do next.  On their way to becoming bullies?  Maybe.  But for right now I think that word is a little bit sensational to describe these men.  I would rather think of them as severely uninformed and quite shocked to find that what they may have thought was the end of their rope has ended up yielding several more uncomfortable feet.

 

As far as respecting a woman goes, how does one respect a woman exactly?  I would like to know your take on it.  When I think of respect concerning anyone I am reminded of that quote from Natural Born Killers,

 

"Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, b*tch, you knew I was a snake"

 

Saying that to say that in order to be respected, in the way that women like to use that word, one must first be respectable.  It has to work both ways or someone is just going to get abused.  There is a lot at play in all of these relationships on both sides and the respect, as I know it, is being given exactly according to the situations.  The proper respect to give to a poisonous snake is to leave it be as it is a poisonous snake after all.  Addressing only the men is only going to solve half the problem.  In my opinion though someone just has to explain to everyone that conviction, a leg to stand on in the face of deceit, and the ability to stand proudly in the light of day is much more important in the long run than a hot bod, regular intercourse, or someone to pay half or all of the bills.

 

Yeah, I see the guys as the women in the little quote who picks up the snake, knowing it was a snake, and carries it home.  A little stupid yeah, but their hearts are in the right place even if their heads are not.

 

 
October 11, 2007, 9:08 am CDT

And he's doing this because...???

Puzzling that Dr Phil has seen fit to plan a Ladies Night Out when these couples are still knee deep in problems they have only just begun to sort out, not to mention the alcohol debacle.  Will there not be alcohol aplenty wherever they go, be it club, restaurant, etc. as well as MEN?  I can only liken this to ripping open a wound that has just barely begun to heal.  These couples have a long way to go towards having functional marriages.  It doesn't make sense to me that the doctor would purposely expose these women to temptation now before they've had adequate time to make things right as couples.  If anyone sees a point to this ladies night out thing, I'd love to hear it!     
 
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