Topic : 10/12 Homecoming Shooting

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Created on : Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 10:58:52 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Early Sunday morning in Crandon, a small Wisconsin logging town, 20-year-old deputy sheriff Tyler Peterson went on a shooting rampage killing six people and critically wounding another before authorities fatally shot him. A part-time police officer, Peterson fired thirty rounds of ammunition on his ex-girlfriend and a group of friends who had gathered for pizza and movies to celebrate homecoming weekend. Who was Tyler Peterson, and what drove him to murder six people in cold blood? What is the profile of a mass murderer, and does he fit the description? How could Peterson have slipped through the system to become a law enforcement officer, and how do we keep it from happening again? Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence.* From the 1999 Columbine massacre to the nation's deadliest shooting rampage in history at Virginia Tech last April, mass shootings in America continue to draw world scrutiny. Be there when Dr. Phil asks the tough questions. If it's happening now, Dr. Phil is gonna talk about it now! Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.



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October 12, 2007, 10:15 pm PDT

you are in my prayers

to start i would like to say sorry to all the family who had lost their loved ones and to the students of the school. this is not something we as parents should have to deal with losing our kids so young. i'm a mother of 2, my daughter is 17 and a senior and my son is 10 and he's in the 4th grade. i couldn't imagine not being able to hold or see them. my heart and prayers go out to all of you.
 
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October 12, 2007, 10:29 pm PDT

Agreement

Quote From: jacornett39

I have to respond to this story feeling some confusion and sadness for the family. I get upset when I hear its the families fault, its lack of supervison, its divorced parents, its an unstable household, and so on. There has been way too many, killings, shootings, suicides amongst out teens but we can not say it's always a dysfunctional family or blame the parents. That is unfair to the families. Not only do the family members have to grieve, they have to live the embarrassment and confusion as to why. Some families may never know.

I hope that these stories open the eyes to many parents, students, teacher and law enforcement. Warning signs are not always there but maybe Dr. Phil can help his viewers understand and help open some of those closed doors that some kids may have (which drives them to do violent crimes).

May we all take a  few minutes and be thankful and pray for all families invloved.

 

I have to agree that I was struck by others who are attempting to place blame within the family . . . they weren't attentive enough, didn't care enough, didn't provide a stable household, etc.  I have not heard that any of that is true.  Everything that I have learned about Mr. Peterson's family has been positive.  They have been respectful to everyone involved in this horrible situation.  I am sure they have enough guilt and self doubt regarding this without the public placing more on them.  No matter how well you know someone or how you try to help someone, they are still responsible for their own actions.  Not only that, but you may know someone very well and may be able to predict how they will react in a stressful situation, but you never REALLY know until they are in that situation. 

 

Mr. Peterson was an adult, albeit a young one, but an adult.  Maybe too young to be an officer.  It is difficult to say.  Everyone is different.  Age is not always a good indicator of maturity and capability.  I have worked with officers who were young, but extremely capable and reliable.  I have also worked with people who were older who were very immature. 

 

I formerly worked in the mental health field and now work in law enforcement as a dispatcher.  I would agree that there is a stigma regarding mental health or counseling needs.  Until that changes, I don't foresee an increase in services. 

 

My thoughts and prayers go out to the everyone touched by this incident, the families, friends, community members, officers and other public servants.  It is a sad situation for everyone involved.  May you find strength in those around you when you cannot find it within yourself.  

 
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October 12, 2007, 10:41 pm PDT

Here in Cleveland

I have 2 children in the Cleveland Public Schools...My oldest is in High School and my youngest is in elementry school. but the younger one's school is k-8 so there are 13,14 and even a few 15 year olds in her school. The fact that this boy was only 14 terrifies me for the safety of my 7 year old daughter.I just don't understand why kids think that this kind of behavior is even an option to them. I know you can't put all the blame on the parents but it seems to me that this mother didn't take the time to really talk to her son. As a parent I know where my kids are at all times and they are not allowed to go anywhere without me knowing where they are, who they are with and when they will be home. I understand that it isn't always that easy but it only take a few extra minutes to ask your kids these questions. Just a few minutes to talk to your kids about things like this and let them know this is not acceptable
 
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October 12, 2007, 10:45 pm PDT

You asked why.......

I believe that more and more children and adults are suffering from Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and it is going untreated and/or undiagnosised. These are children that due to neglect, abuse, drugs, lack of bonding, etc., do not develop attachments, have no empathy or conscience. Parents are not staying home with babies and developing the bonds with their babies because they need to get back to work to pay the bills. We are the only country that doesn't allow for substantial time off for new parents to bond with their children. More and more children are ending up in the foster system with multiple placements and thus never learn to bond or trust their caregivers. This is a SERIOUS CRISIS in this country that needs to be looked into!! RAD is a fairly new diagnosis that just entered the DSM-IV and is not understood by alot of therapists. Read "High Risk - Children Without a Conscience" by Dr. Ken Magid and Carole A. McKelvey: read "Bonding and Attachment" by Yvonne Rose Bush; read "Understanding and Treating the Severely Disturbed Child - from the series What Shall We Do With This Kid" by Foster W. Cline. This is just a small list but a good start to understanding the importance of bonding in the first few months of life. Children need to receive treatment for RAD as soon as possible in order to get the disorder under control. The longer the child goes untreated the more untrusting, manipulating, angry and powerful the child becomes. Let's work together to get the word out about RAD and get more parents, teachers, therapists, clergy, social workers, and society educated. Education is powerful in the fight against violence!
 
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October 12, 2007, 10:46 pm PDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Yes,  it was a great tragedy that happened in Crandon.  My heart goes out to all of the families that have to deal with this tragedy. 

 

I can totally relate to how everyone is reacting in Crandon.  My nephew and niece attend Weston High School where their Principal was shot and killed one year ago.  It struck pretty close to home for me.

 

According to Dr. Phil's posting, the shooter was shot by police, but according to our local News Cast, the shooter took his own life.

 

Again, it is an unneccesary tragedy, and my prayers are with all.

 
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October 13, 2007, 12:12 am PDT

Livin

Dr. Phil,

After watching the show Friday about the latest school shooting, I am concerned about one of the questions you asked toward the end of the show.  In the process of talking about profiling potential shooters, you asked if the process of labeling someone will lead them to fulfill this “expectation” which they might not have fulfilled otherwise—and if revealing their medical records could prevent shootings from occurring or damages the individual.

 

While I understand the validity of targeting “at risk” individuals, I am even more concerned that these targeted individuals will eventually “do what they are suspected of being capable of doing” in large part because they become so overwhelmed by the expected behavior that they lose all sense of self-worth and the potential to overcome their difficulties.  They lose hope and “give in and do” what they are targeted to potentially do.

 

This is not theoretical belief for me.  I watched this happen to my son.  As hard as I fought on his behalf, the stated belief of “so-called professionals” eventually consumed his self-esteem, self-worth, dignity, and belief that he could overcome his problems.  Let me explain.

 

My son has a pervasive developmental disorder that is NOT autism or asperger’s, but sensory integration dysfunction.  SI crosses over symptoms of both autism and asperger’s, but is in the non-specified category.  He has been in treatment since he began school and was in therapy since he was 4, prior to diagnosis—I knew his behavior was not “normal” and sought help for him and for me in dealing with his behavior.  Let me state emphatically that my son is a loving, polite, well-mannered, bright, energetic boy.  He is very verbal.  However, he has many processing issues, is both hypo and hypersensitive, becomes overwhelmed and melts down, and has difficulty with social interaction.  When he is over stimulated or cannot process all that is happening around him he shuts down or melts down.  When he melts down, his behavior can be very violent—primarily towards himself. 

 

When he was afour-year-old, we went to the state fair.  Prior to leaving we went over all the rules.  We explained that we would purchase one souvenir for him as we LEFT the fair.  This was a proven technique with him.  We made it to the third vending cart before he asked to buy something.  We restated the rules.  This continued for about another fifteen minutes.  He threw himself to the street and began screaming, crying, beating his hands and feet on the ground in an Oscar-winning performance of a temper tantrum.  His father stood about five feet from him on one side and I stood about the same distance on the other side to watch, make certain he didn’t hurt himself, but not give in to the tantrum.  This continued for about thirty minutes.  People encouraged us to “stand our ground.”  Others yelled at us for “abusing our child.”  A fair employee directed foot traffic around us trying to give us the space to let him get it out of his system.  One person went and got security to check on his safety, and after they talked to us and watched the situation, they left us.  Some people offered to pay for whatever he wanted and there were many other reactions.  Finally, a larger-than-life-size character from Rugrats, who was at the fair that day came over to try to help.  One look at this giant Rugrat and our son leaped up from the ground and threw himself into my arms.  He was more afraid of a giant “Chuckie” that wanting his “toy” (which was purchased at the last vending area prior to our departure several hours later).

 

Fast forward to age 14, with the benefit of ten years of work with therapists, psychiatrists, occupational therapists, diagnosis, medical treatment, and mom’s becoming educated about and how to handle his disorder.  He is an A/B student, has traveled extensively, and is a boy scout.  He is a member of the national honor society of boy scouts and is preparing for his Eagle Scout Project.  Until the end of July at a camp where his father has accompanied him for the week and on the last night, after all other activities are complete and he is back in the campsite, he has a massive, extreme, meltdown, his father reacts poorly, his troop reacts poorly and results in his being suspended from the troop for a year in order to ensure the safety of the troop.  As my son stated, Mr. “O” would never give him a break, was convinced he was a mass murderer, no good, worthless, so why not be as bad as everyone says he is going to be?

 

Here is how it began.  An incident took place on October 14, 2006 during an OA campout.  My son had completed a wonderful day.  He had climbed the climbing wall to the top for the first time.  He had never succeeded prior to this camp and he was very excited.  After supper he and some of the boys were playing carpet ball.  He and his troop mates had gone back to camp.  His scoutmaster and most of the boys were at the campfire.  The assistant scoutmaster was spending most of his time in the latrine—he had come down with the flu.  My son decided to return to play carpet ball, alone, since no one else wanted to go. 

 

My son states that the other boys and he were joking around, when one boy started making remarks about “the groin” and asked him a question about his groin.  He answered the boy—hoping the boy would change the subject.  Instead, the boy, who was standing in front of him, turned and kicked him in the groin.  He responded by “putting the boy to the ground” as he had been taught in Kenpo Karate when attacked by a bully.  When he released the boy, the boy came up from the ground hitting and kicking.  My son returned punch for punch.  About the time the other boy realized he was not going to “win,” a second boy stepped in and threw a punch at my son .  Boy 1—the instigator—ran off.  Boy 2 and my son continued fighting.  Boy 2 hit him in the mouth—splitting his lip and blood filled his mouth.  My son states he realized he was loosing control and tried to run away so he could calm down. 

 

As he broke off, adult leaders, none of whom he knew arrived, grabbing him.  He states all he could think of was that he had to get away to calm down and that hands kept grabbing him.  He doesn’t remember much at that point.  The next memory that he states was “someone was touching me and I screamed and fought for my life . . . I was afraid that he was trying to molest me. “  He then states that he began calling for his scoutmasters to come help him and that someone asked him if he meant “D” and he said yes and began screaming for “D” to help him.  “D” came and took him to his tent so he could calm down.  When he was calm and could talk, “D” came to the tent and my son told “D” what had happened and asked if he could go apologize to the boys.  Since he did not know the boys, “D” sought that information for him and was told that my son was not to be allowed to talk to the boys.

 

“D” continued to talk to my son and while talking it through my son realized that the adult leaders were not trying to hurt him, but they were trying to make sure he didn’t have a knife or anything on to hurt himself or others with.  I asked him if he had a knife with him and he stated that he had deliberately left his knife and everything in his pockets in his tent before he went to play carpet ball. 

 

On Sunday, I met the scout leaders and the boys to pick up my son.  When “D” got out of his vehicle, I knew something was wrong.  I have never seen “D” so upset.  As he told me about the incident, he held on to the side of the truck and his knuckles were white—he was calmly, livid.  He told me that there had been a problem.  That no one knew my son’s side of the incident, because once he got to his tent he almost immediately fell asleep and had slept until time to eat and break camp.  He stated that the problem was a fight with two boys and that he was not there when it started, but that when he arrived, my son was being held down by 4 adults.  He also stated that when the adults tried to pat my son down, checking for weapons, that my son had totally freaked out and went into a complete meltdown.  He returned my son to camp and that once Jimtu was calm, he told “D” he wanted to apologize for “loosing it,” but that “O” and “J” would not allow my son to talk to the other boys.  He asked that I call him after I spoke to my son and got the complete story.  “O” and “J” had stated that my son was not allowed at campouts without a parent present.

 

To say the least I was not pleased.  I asked for the names of the other boys involved—“D” was never told.  I asked who was involved as leaders and was told “the nurse, a person with police training, “O” and “J.”  I told “D” I would be in touch with him once I had the full story.  I left to take my son home.  He was asleep and slept all the way home and most of the rest of the day.  When asked, he told me what I stated above.  I called “D” and gave him the rest of the information and decided to let it rest for a while.

 

Two weeks later, my son had gone to bed early when I heard him crying.  I went to his room and asked what was wrong.  He told me that he had to quit scouts.  I asked why and he told me he couldn’t tell me, but that he was a bad person and couldn’t ever go back to scouts.  As I continued gently to probe him as to why he thought he was a bad person, he went back to the incident.  He stated that he couldn’t tell me because it was a secret and that he had promised the nurse that he would never talk about it.  I informed him, ever so gently, that there are no secrets which he cannot tell his mother.  Promising someone not to tell his mother is what he had to do under duress to get away from the person, but there is nothing that he cannot tell his mother.  He stated that he was forced to promise never ever to try or to hurt another person as long as he lived and not to tell me about their touching him, because they were just trying to see if he had a knife.  He went on about how he is a bad person and wanted to die and that we would all be better off if he was dead.

 

It took a lot of talking, crying, and more talking to convince him that these people were wrong to try to force a promise on him, wrong to tell him he was a bad person, and wrong to scare him so badly.  Yes, his reaction to the first boy was not the best choice, it would have been better to walk away, but that he was using the tools supplied to him by therapist over the years when he tried to go to his tent to calm down.  Yes, I understood that once he went into meltdown that he was no longer able to make conscious decisions and worked on “fright, fight, flight mode” and that I would love him no matter what.  He was suicidal for a week and I worked very hard to keep him from hurting himself.  His psychiatrist helped us through this.

 

That was when I decided to contact “O”.  First, I wanted to hear his side of the story.  Second, I wanted to educate him about PDD-NOS, SID, ADHD so that he knew what my son went through.  Third, I wanted to present my son’s request for an opportunity to apologize to the boys involved.  The meeting was not successful: “O” was never open in his body language which brings into question if he was ever open to conversation;  was clearly angry at my son—and me by extension—because he got hit by my son; stated that he had never seen anyone so out of control, screaming bloody murder and would not listen; stated that my son would never be allowed back to an OA function unless a parent was with him at all times; was so angry that he appeared not to listen; and did not want to discuss anything with or ever speak to my son again.

 

After the meeting, I found a trainer for scouts with special needs.  I contacted her and we developed a plan.  She took it to “O” along with our request for a meeting.  This is spiraling out of control.  FOUR MONTHS after this incident I asked the adults in this matter to put aside personal feelings and get this resolved. 

 

In April, yes, that’s six months later, we finally had a meeting with “O,” “J,” the assistant scoutmaster, my son, my husband, and myself.  It was torture for my son.  Instead of telling about the meeting I am copying parts of a letter he wrote to “O” and the head of his council.

 

Dear “P,” “O,” and “J”:

 

It has been over a month since Mr. “O,” “J,” and I met.  It was my understanding that they would be notifying me about my punishment.  I have not yet heard from you. 

 

I’ve thought a lot about the question about getting in trouble with the police.   It bothers me a lot.  I don’t think it would ever happen.  I continue to work with my therapist to learn how to handle situations in appropriate manners.  I have not had a melt down since the one at OA camp, which was unknowingly made worse by the adults.  I know they were not trying to hurt me—now, but at the time, I was terrified and only trying to get away to a place of safety.  They didn’t know that what they were doing was hurting me and I couldn’t tell them.  I don’t want to go back to that place again—the meltdown.  I don’t want to be terrified again. 

 

That is why I agreed and worked on the ISAP.  Having a friend, someone who knows me and that I know, along with me helps remind me when to walk away, before trouble happens.  I don’t expect—or want—someone else to be responsible for me or to control me.  That is what I work with my therapist about, so I can control myself.  The way I see and feel things is different than people without sensory integration disorder.  I wish I could explain it.

 

Another thing I have been thinking about is the email Mr. “O” wrote comparing me to a boy with a disability similar to mine who killed a classmate and commenting that I was going to be like that.  I can’t explain how deeply that hurts me.  I am working to overcome my disability.  That boy had a disability that has tendencies to turn violently with little or no reason.  I am not like that.  I try to avoid situations when I feel that tension inside of me.  I try to go somewhere else and get control of myself.  I don’t ever want to hurt someone.

 

Then the person, who killed all the people at Virginia Tech, made me think that you probably think I will be like him.  But, I’m not.  I have people who help me.  I am not alone.  I have a support group and people who love me and care for me.  They believe in me and help me to become the person they believe I can be.  To think that you consider me to be a person capable of doing what Cho Seung-Hui did hurts me deeply.  I can’t even think of doing something like that.  It is wrong and I know it.

 

Scouting has helped me so much--especially Troop **.  “D” and “D” really care about me.  They take the time to work with me and help me understand.  When I make a mistake or get frustrated, they don’t hold it against me.  They give me time to calm down and then we talk and start over again.  Yeah, I’ve had meltdowns when I was with them, but they have proven themselves that they mean what they say and will protect, correct, and instruct me when I need it.  Above all, they believe in me.  They think I can become whatever I want to be in my life.  I try my hardest to live up the respect and trust they have for me.

 

Mr. “O,” Mr. “J,” I didn’t have the meltdown at OA because I wanted to.  I was kicked, hit, my mouth split and I responded wrong.  Now, looking back I could have done things different, but at the time, I wasn’t on guard and just followed the behaviors of those hitting and kicking me.

 

One thing from our meeting I don’t understand is why you asked so many questions about previous meltdowns.  None of them were at OA functions.  This was the only time I had a problem at OA.  I’ve grown up a lot since those other camps.  Why are they being held against me?  You said this only affected OA, so why are problems from non-OA events being brought up?

 

I guess the real problem is that I wish you could understand and accept me as a person of value and worth instead of a weird freak who is different from other people.   I know I’m not perfect, but I do try to live by the scout law and oath.  I try to accept other people as they are.

 

July 21 I sent this email to my closest friends.

I have just returned from Camp L where I picked * up from Scout Camp.  J* took him and has been with him, but a major meltdown/crisis occurred last night and J* left.  The details of what happened are not as important as the need for prayer.
J* is experiencing a spiritual, emotional, psychological void/crisis. * is under great stress.  At first, J* would not talk to anyone, but I finally coaxed the basic overview out of him.  He feels that he is a total failure with no hope of ever recouping.  ** feels that everything is his fault.  * and I talked as we came back from camp, but he is also very "wounded" after the week at camp. Part of the problem is our ongoing problem with the Boy Scout leadership for Order of the Arrow. I am taking this week to pray and ask God about *'s continued involvement with these individuals.

 

I finally found out that my son had felt guilty because a counselor had “passed” him on a badge requirement that he had not demonstrated for the counselor and was trying to light a fire using that method.  Everything was damp and would not take the spark.  Eventually, my son, melted down after six days of “O” and “J” refusing to speak to him at camp, trying to deny him involvement in camp activities, etc. and had the worst meltdown he has experienced with his dad melting down in response.  This, combined  meltdown, teen age rebellion, and building pressure from scout leadership by not resolving the previous October incident, leaving it continuing to “hang over his head,” led him to conclude that he might as well behave as they expected him to so he could  commit scout/social suicide (my term) and end the pain.

 

His troop mates are now afraid of him, but were willing to give him another chance.  Their parents were not.  His scoutmasters consulted the special needs advocates and finally concluded that a year off would give him opportunity to work on his other problems, allow him to come back to a different troop (the parents have said they will remove their sons if he returns), and have a fresh start.  They have spent many hours talking with my son since July. 

For a long time, I seriously wondered if he or my husband would ever pull out of the horrible place they went to during this.  They were both suicidal for a time (my son’s disorder is genetic and it came to him from his dad).  Over the months since, they are both slowly recovering.  They each assume blame for the other’s loss of control.  My son truly bought the lie that he was the bad person “O” claimed he was.  I simply want people who are so ignorant out of my son’s life, but I recognize that as his parent, I must teach him he is a good person, has some inappropriate behavior, provide and model tools to help him cope and live up to his potential and dreams.  Are things smooth?  No!  However, we are navigating the obstacles and making slow progress toward independent, productive, adulthood.

 

My son’s experience is the foundation for my concern that society be careful not to label others or profile people in such a way that their spirit is crushed and no room for growth/change is allowed.   There must be balance.  There must be education.  There must be compassion.  Our children are too valuable just to be thrown under the wheels of inevitability.  We each play a part and bear responsibility.  I have chosen to fight for my child, bear the responsibility of being his parent, and love him through it all.   My love for him is not a feeling—it is an act of my will!

 
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October 13, 2007, 12:50 am PDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

The problem is the bullies. It's horrible that these children reacted violently, but it's usually after years of emotional and/or physical abuse by bullies, that was ignored by faculties. Imagine if you had to go to a place where everyday you were humilated, beaten-up, when you told a dean or teacher about it, they blew you off. They claimed it was your fault for being weird, not fitting in, or whatever other excuse for blaming the victim they can come up with. You would go to that place everday feeling it's them against me, that nobody will look out or help me, so I have to defend myself.

 

The answer is to remove bullies from schools. No more, sob stories about how the child was abused or have some other condition, that they feel is responsible for their bullying. They bully once, they can go find an education elsewhere. There is no reason this should happen, and it wouldn't if bullys were taken out of the schools. Then there wouldn't be students who are pushed so far, as to feel this is the only way.

 
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October 13, 2007, 1:02 am PDT

Can Happen in Your Town Too

Toward the end of last school year, my daughter told me about a kid on the bus talking about bringing a gun to school.  He mentioned a type of weapon and kids who were at the top of the list.  I spoke to one of the school principals and police were notified.  He was held in a juvenile facility for approx. 30 days and suspended indefinitely. 

 

Our real issues came when word got out.  Our daughter was being harassed and threatened on a daily basis for 'ratting.'  Even though we reported the behavior and even went so far as to do a segment on the local news, we got no support from the high school.  They took the stance that no one should know she was the one who reported the incident unless she told them.  This was high school and if we would just stop pulling thr bandaid off it would blow over in a few days.  Even someone writing 'die bitch' on her locker caused them no concern.  I was horrified at the lack of concern/ response from  the school.  How can we ask our kids to tell when they have to be afraid of retaliation?  That the adults that are supposed to protect them turn their backs on kids that are brave enough to come forward.  There were never ill feelings toward this kid, the goal was to get hiim help and prevent anyone harm.  But unfortunately our daughter was not given any consideration or assistance.

 

Unless we can get our school leaders to rethink bullying, etc we will continue to have school shootings and kids afraid to come forward for fear of being called a snitch or rat.  This is no big city school.  We live in a very small bedroom community in the midwest.  No one in our town would have ever believed it could happen here either.

 
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October 13, 2007, 1:36 am PDT

You're Kidding, Right?

Quote From: achurchgoer

 Children learn from adults;

When 9/11 occurred, as a nation we had the option to forgive yet we chose to retaliate.
What could the muslim world have said if we chose the former?

The nation that forgets God is doomed already. Shove God in the corner some more.

No surprise you forgot to mention the amish who's first response was to forgive the killer.

  9/11 occurred because terrorists decided to kill the "infidels"!  This is not a forgiving matter.  To do nothing would have sent a message to the world that any terrorist group can do whatever they want to our country and we will do nothing.  I noticed you  mentioned the Amish forgave the shooter when many of thei children died, and I commend them for that because that is their belief.  I believe in forgiveness as well, but we cannot allow obviously "misguided" people to treat us in any way they see fit.  

 

God helps those that help themselves!  We have the right as Americans to feel safe in our country.  I have had something very bad happen to me in my life, and I have come to realize that God can handle those people much better than I ever could!  However, we are talking about an entire nation!!   Our children deserve protection from those who would harm them.  I don't believe God would want us to do nothing! 

 

I respect your opinion - I just don't agree with it.

 

Thanks for reading.

 
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October 13, 2007, 4:14 am PDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Quote From: xbisoubisoux

I certainly was taught about God, that is how I am sure that it is much more important to be a good person, have faith, and morals, than to write God on everything.

 

as an aside you are certainly not following Dr. Phil's advice to argue about issues not to sink personal attacks and name calling. It is you who sounds juvenile when you accuse me of being a school shooter.

hello, i said nothing about accusing you of being a school shooter, and i am sorry if you took it that way!!all i am tring to tell you is, that is how you learn all about having morals, having faith and to be a good person. now that it is NOT taught in our schools today, there is no one teaching them this!!the whole problem is that because it is not taught in our schools, it's NOT being taught to them!! parents are not taking the contol they need, and back when i was in school, some of my friends had parents who didn't teach them either.they did however teach it in my school, and that's how they learned about faith, being a good person, so on and so on!!!now that it is nNOT in the schools, these poor kids are not being taught it!!! just like my grandson!!my daughter and her husband never took the time to teach them about God. now that my daughter has passed away, and the husband is in prison for molesting the 13 yr old step child, my gr/daughter, our system has allowed all 4 of these kids to be put in a foster home, where there is no true care at all!!so how are they supposed to learn about God and being a good person, if they don't see it in the home??my little gr/son, at the age of 13 is already taling about quitting school, and getting a job, because that's what he learns in this so called foster home!!our system allowed them to have to go to this foster home, because they closed the case on my gr/kids, without even calling me first!!!if they would of, they would of been put in my home, where they would of deffinately learned about being a good person and believing in other things, other than quitting school!!! so now, that's where i am at with my problem. do i live in fear that this could be my grandson? you bet i do, and i would have to learn about it on the news, because no one bothers to call me , i'm the only grandma that wants anything to do with the kids,and they quit calling me, because they knew i would hit the roof, because they are the ones that let this all happen. i tried so hard to stop the molesting, but they would not believe me, they called me a jealous woman who lost her daughter, and now wants to take someone else's daughter!!sick huh? so my little gr/child had to be sexually abused foir 2 yrs. after her mommy died!!she was also put in the hospital because she was thinking about killing herself!! they didn't call me then either!!! that's why everyone is saying that because parents just don't take the time to teach kids what they need to know, to become the good person, that they should be, at least they might be able to learn it at school!! where else will they learn about?? i am not saying that you  didn't teach your children these things, i'm just saying that a lot of people today aren't, so that's why they should bring it back to our schools!! i am sorry if you thought i was calling you any names, because i didn't!! i just said, in the nicest words i could find, where are you coming from??? i reread what i wrote to you and i don't see where you came up with me calling you names or calling you a school shooter!!!!so please, do not attack me, because we think differently about what should be taught in our schools, in order to help our kids, when parents don't!!!! thank you  debbie
 

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