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Topic : 10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Number of Replies: 468
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Created on : Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 10:58:52 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Early Sunday morning in Crandon, a small Wisconsin logging town, 20-year-old deputy sheriff Tyler Peterson went on a shooting rampage killing six people and critically wounding another before authorities fatally shot him. A part-time police officer, Peterson fired thirty rounds of ammunition on his ex-girlfriend and a group of friends who had gathered for pizza and movies to celebrate homecoming weekend. Who was Tyler Peterson, and what drove him to murder six people in cold blood? What is the profile of a mass murderer, and does he fit the description? How could Peterson have slipped through the system to become a law enforcement officer, and how do we keep it from happening again? Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence.* From the 1999 Columbine massacre to the nation's deadliest shooting rampage in history at Virginia Tech last April, mass shootings in America continue to draw world scrutiny. Be there when Dr. Phil asks the tough questions. If it's happening now, Dr. Phil is gonna talk about it now! Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 16, 2007, 2:03 pm CDT

Abandoned boys---not really "NEWS"

Quote From: lilroo25

We are ignoring the most important part of these shootings. These are boys and we are excepting violence from males as the norm. I watched a great documentary in college that looked at the culture of our society. It particularly pointed to what stands out is what we think of as abnormal. Women who are violent stand out. We talk about them constantly. But these school shootings are all boys. Why aren't we talking about that? Why aren't we talking about all the messages within our society that equates violence with manliness? We need to start addressing the idea of men and violence being normal.

I have two sons---two wonderful men, now.

 

My heart aches, every time I watch the evening news: A boy shot and killed other students and teachers.

I always ask the same question, out loud:  DO THESE BOYS HAVE LOVING, INVOLVED DADS?

 

HAPPY BOYS DO NOT KILL.

 

One of the GREATEST PERSONAL TRAGEDIES of all time is UNINVOLVED FATHERS.

Where are they?

 

Ask EVERY man and boy you know, TONIGHT, if they have loving, involved fathers in their lives.

 

I think the answers will shock you into the recognition of this UNIVERSAL PROBLEM.

 

 

 

 

 
October 16, 2007, 2:17 pm CDT

But YOU did not snap!

Quote From: divatude1

I sent an email over the weekend trying to describe  the anger I felt after getting home from yet another unpleasant experience. You see, the smallest thing can bring a person to loose it completely. No one takes a minute to think that they may be dealing with someone who has gone through it maybe seconds before this person is standing in front of them. I am a 43 year old black ,American, disabled,plus size woman, now already the odds are against me but I don't allow this to stop me. I have been through so many things that the average person can not even fathom but when I have to deal with day to day situations it's always magnified 1000 times because I'm taking care of my parents as well. When I am subjected to, rude,ignorant, nasty, condescending and disrespectful individuals. Just for that second I can feel myself leave my body in order to deal with the over abundance of rage. All it takes is one word, a gesture to send a person over the edge. People who deal with the public should take 30 seconds to think before they demean, humiliate and disregard the person they're talking to and that includes family and friends.

You are a beautiful and adult example of intelligent behavior:   You THINK before you act!

 

THIS IS WHAT IS MISSING TODAY:  THINKING PEOPLE!    I admire you!

 
October 16, 2007, 2:32 pm CDT

Forget your "magic" bullets!

Quote From: sahmwith4

True, true!

 

Thank you for your post and opinion!

Kids use drugs because they are UNHAPPY and TROUBLED.

 

Kids use guns because they are UNHAPPY and TROUBLED.

 

Your brand of logic is simply not relevant to today's kids and schools.

We parents and educators, who deal with the kids and families DAILY, know that guns are no answer.

 

Education is more than counseling a TROUBLED kid from a TROUBLED family life.

Education is the PROCESS OF LEARNING how to think and solve problems, not cause them.

 

Guns and violence are the problems, along with troubled families.  Get to the root causes!

 

 
October 16, 2007, 4:55 pm CDT

Why can't teachers carry weapons??

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.
 
October 16, 2007, 5:32 pm CDT

A teachable moment---LOST!

Quote From: msteacherlady

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.

After  9/11, cockpits were FINALLY SECURED AND LOCKED!!!   (That keeps armed men out.)

 

Let's address the "teachable moment" with your student's EXCELLENT QUESTION:

 

"What would happen if I shot a teacher?"

 

My degrees are in Behavioral Science and Legal Studies.  I would have LOVED this question!

 

I would have opened up the class discussion this way:

 

"Class, who can answer that ?   What WILL HAPPEN to students who shoot a teacher?

Will the student's age matter?    Will he be arrested/ tried/convicted in adult court?

Will his parents have any criminal charges against them for aiding/ abetting the criminal?

What is "child endangerment?"      What is First Degree Murder?  

Who wants to research these and other questions and share the information tomorrow in class?

Who can bring in CASES where students were convicted of this crime?"...etc., etc., etc....

 

THIS WAS A VALUABLE TEACHABLE MOMENT WHERE KIDS COULD LEARN SOMETHING!

 

It appears that it was LOST, in the fears of the staff.   I am very disappointed, because it was a VALID question that deserved valid explanations.   Good grief, why did the teacher LEAP into the quicksand of fear and start strapping on a gun?    IT WAS A GREAT QUESTION!     The "teachable moment" was lost.

 

 

 

 
October 17, 2007, 2:41 am CDT

A European perspective on gun-violence

First of all, I am so sorry for everybody who becomes a victim of violence. Here is the deal seen from an outside perspective: In Norway we hear about gun violence happening all the time in America, and almost never anywhere else in the world. Not only are the gun-crimes frequent, violent crime in general seems to be. Through my studies I have learned a lot about sociology related to law, and we do know some things about why my country Norway has a very low crime-rate compared to many Western countries. I wish to stress that our laws and systems are far from perfect especially related to domestic abuse, but we still are doing some things right:

 

- Most of the population including most of the military and the police-force are not allowed to carry guns in public unless they have separate, specific permits for each occasion.

- Keeping guns at home is almost equally strictly regulated. The general population is not allowed to unless they have special permits as soldiers or trained hunters. The only unexpected shooting episodes we have had in Norway have happened related to these guns (excluding the long term criminals).

- Without the guns, we are still not more frequently attacked, assaulted, robbed, and I believe we are less vulnerable without all these guns lying around everywhere.

- I personally believe that our capital punishment is far too lenient, and I have not seen any examples of this contributing to fewer crimes with one exception: If people are to be let back out into society, it should happen as soon as possible to avoid the individuals to adjust too much to the prison culture which is not compatible with how society on the outside works. From a functional standpoint, criminals ought to be tried, convicted, rehabilitated and released as quickly and efficiently as possible for the sake of success, or they should be kept in jail forever for the protection of society.

- Norway has a much debated but somewhat restrictive alcohol policy, and the numbers clearly support restriction contrary to the popular opinion. Most crimes are committed while intoxicated, and the vast majority happens under the influence of alcohol.

- Social issues such as little education, poverty and mental health problems more often than not factor into what makes a criminal. We are lucky to not have a lot of murders or serious, violent attacks in Norway. Many of our attacks have been associated with too poor mental healthcare on society’s part.

- Conclusion: Far more restrictive policies concerning guns and alcohol would probably make a huge difference to American crime-rates. To those who object in the name of the individual’s right to party and protect themselves I have only one thing to say: I would much rather live with a slightly “parenting” and overprotective Government’s restrictions than being shot by a mentally ill person who used the gun he keeps to protect himself from thieves or being hit by a drunk driver who just had to take a few too many drinks. Very few children do well without boundaries, and I believe America frequently proves that the same is the case for the adult population. My friends, you are paying a high price for some of your freedoms. Is it really worth it?

 
October 17, 2007, 6:22 am CDT

Attempt number 4

Once more I will attempt to make a point.  That is what these message boards are for right?  Who decides what goes on it.  If it makes a clear point and does not contain foul language it should be posted right?  4 times I have tried to express my opinion on the new set and format of Dr. Phil's "Now."   I didn't just come in on a load of turnips so I assume that other people have made this comment and been blocked as well. I guess Dr.Phil does not want to get real when it comes to HIS shortcomings. 

Once more I will make the case that to put Casey Keyes and his mother on a set with life sized screens of kids diving under tables, Klebold firing his weapon and laughing in the woods, and carnage all around was insensitive at best.  I imagine that they may have suffered a set back as a result.  Dr. Phil, we like the sensitive, no nonsense, caring Dr. Phil.  Don't become "Hollywood Phil." 

I deserve to open a dialog about this topic.  I am sorry if it offends.  The next time I will make my case in the editorial page of the LA Times. 

 
October 17, 2007, 6:47 am CDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Quote From: msteacherlady

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.

The student in your class was probably asking a rhetorical and question and you should have given him a chance to elaborate. Or perhaps kept him after class for a minute and had a one on one talk with him.

 

Having said that, I agree completely with you that teachers like yourself who have their state gun carry permit, and want to, should be allowed to take them to school with them. No student in any of your classes would know you had a gun. I would  much rather have a child of mine in a class room with you than in a class room where the teacher is armed merely with their degrees.

 
October 17, 2007, 10:08 am CDT

Norway is a LEADER!

Quote From: forsara

First of all, I am so sorry for everybody who becomes a victim of violence. Here is the deal seen from an outside perspective: In Norway we hear about gun violence happening all the time in America, and almost never anywhere else in the world. Not only are the gun-crimes frequent, violent crime in general seems to be. Through my studies I have learned a lot about sociology related to law, and we do know some things about why my country Norway has a very low crime-rate compared to many Western countries. I wish to stress that our laws and systems are far from perfect especially related to domestic abuse, but we still are doing some things right:

 

- Most of the population including most of the military and the police-force are not allowed to carry guns in public unless they have separate, specific permits for each occasion.

- Keeping guns at home is almost equally strictly regulated. The general population is not allowed to unless they have special permits as soldiers or trained hunters. The only unexpected shooting episodes we have had in Norway have happened related to these guns (excluding the long term criminals).

- Without the guns, we are still not more frequently attacked, assaulted, robbed, and I believe we are less vulnerable without all these guns lying around everywhere.

- I personally believe that our capital punishment is far too lenient, and I have not seen any examples of this contributing to fewer crimes with one exception: If people are to be let back out into society, it should happen as soon as possible to avoid the individuals to adjust too much to the prison culture which is not compatible with how society on the outside works. From a functional standpoint, criminals ought to be tried, convicted, rehabilitated and released as quickly and efficiently as possible for the sake of success, or they should be kept in jail forever for the protection of society.

- Norway has a much debated but somewhat restrictive alcohol policy, and the numbers clearly support restriction contrary to the popular opinion. Most crimes are committed while intoxicated, and the vast majority happens under the influence of alcohol.

- Social issues such as little education, poverty and mental health problems more often than not factor into what makes a criminal. We are lucky to not have a lot of murders or serious, violent attacks in Norway. Many of our attacks have been associated with too poor mental healthcare on societys part.

- Conclusion: Far more restrictive policies concerning guns and alcohol would probably make a huge difference to American crime-rates. To those who object in the name of the individuals right to party and protect themselves I have only one thing to say: I would much rather live with a slightly parenting and overprotective Governments restrictions than being shot by a mentally ill person who used the gun he keeps to protect himself from thieves or being hit by a drunk driver who just had to take a few too many drinks. Very few children do well without boundaries, and I believe America frequently proves that the same is the case for the adult population. My friends, you are paying a high price for some of your freedoms. Is it really worth it?

Dear friend,

 

Not only has Norway been a leader in BANNING trans-fats (which KILL people); but now you are sharing the benefits of a culture where the government is HUMANE.    We could learn so much from you!

 

Your comments were excellent, and we need to reflect on them.

 

Thank you for teaching us that there is more than the "American way" to live.  

 
October 17, 2007, 11:53 am CDT

STRENGTH, NOT

Quote From: fromthesquare

Once more I will attempt to make a point.  That is what these message boards are for right?  Who decides what goes on it.  If it makes a clear point and does not contain foul language it should be posted right?  4 times I have tried to express my opinion on the new set and format of Dr. Phil's "Now."   I didn't just come in on a load of turnips so I assume that other people have made this comment and been blocked as well. I guess Dr.Phil does not want to get real when it comes to HIS shortcomings. 

Once more I will make the case that to put Casey Keyes and his mother on a set with life sized screens of kids diving under tables, Klebold firing his weapon and laughing in the woods, and carnage all around was insensitive at best.  I imagine that they may have suffered a set back as a result.  Dr. Phil, we like the sensitive, no nonsense, caring Dr. Phil.  Don't become "Hollywood Phil." 

I deserve to open a dialog about this topic.  I am sorry if it offends.  The next time I will make my case in the editorial page of the LA Times. 

 

I agree that Dr. Phil's strength is KNOWLEDGE, not pseudo "entertainment."  The latter is an insult to our intelligence.   Oprah has used television for years to lift up society, not degrade it.

 

We have listened to him for years as a voice of REASON.  He has immense ability and vast access to educate and provide a forum for SOLUTIONS!   Problem solving is not just listing PROBLEMS!

IT IS MAKING CHANGE NOW TO FIX THE PROBLEMS, inch by inch and day by day.

 

WHERE ARE THE PROGRAMS THAT ILLUSTRATE SUCCESS? 

 

Many of us are tired of the whining, complaining, fighting, and theoretical arguments.

It is time for SOLUTIONS!   It is time for SAFE PRACTICES!   It is time for ACTION!   NOW!

 

We have identified the problems.  NOW WE MUST IMPLEMENT IDEAS THAT DO WORK!

 

Those of us who are DOING SOMETHING, NOW, ACTIVELY, are making a difference.

I applaud every viewer who has taken an active, not a passive, position on these boards and in life.

 

WE are the ones who will change the failed policies that are currently hurting us all.

 

 

 

 

 
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