Topic : 10/12 Homecoming Shooting

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Created on : Wednesday, October 10, 2007, 10:58:52 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Early Sunday morning in Crandon, a small Wisconsin logging town, 20-year-old deputy sheriff Tyler Peterson went on a shooting rampage killing six people and critically wounding another before authorities fatally shot him. A part-time police officer, Peterson fired thirty rounds of ammunition on his ex-girlfriend and a group of friends who had gathered for pizza and movies to celebrate homecoming weekend. Who was Tyler Peterson, and what drove him to murder six people in cold blood? What is the profile of a mass murderer, and does he fit the description? How could Peterson have slipped through the system to become a law enforcement officer, and how do we keep it from happening again? Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence.* From the 1999 Columbine massacre to the nation's deadliest shooting rampage in history at Virginia Tech last April, mass shootings in America continue to draw world scrutiny. Be there when Dr. Phil asks the tough questions. If it's happening now, Dr. Phil is gonna talk about it now! Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.


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October 16, 2007, 11:13 am PDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Quote From: fwwright

Do these kids get these guns strictly onthier own or is it a family owned gun? If they did get it on thier own then how do they get weapons of WAR not just a hunting gun? I do not understand your logic. If the gun is not readilly available when you are in a very upset mental state then it can't be used toget rid of the frustration.
What I was trying to imply is That the guns were all basically illegally obtained. For those who have the permits for the guns there needs to be more responsibility. Lets keep them away from these kids. It's just nuts that a mentally impaired child can obtain so many high powered guns. They obviously didn't get them for their own protection. They got them hoping to kill their classmates and teachers. That's not why we have the right to bear arms. I get pissed off a work here and there but I'm not going to kill my coworkers! I would rather we not have that right that was when some nut looses it he/she can't go out and kill the first ten people he sees. They are readily available. You can buy them on the streets. That's a huge factor in these cases. Most guns these kids get their hands on and kill other kids with most likely were bought off the street.
 
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October 16, 2007, 1:44 pm PDT

BEAUTIFUL DIAGNOSIS!

Quote From: mtreewoman

After watching the show on the school shootings, I was concerned with the "answers" the "experts" came up with. A book on what to do in a crises at school is, in my opinion, like shutting the barn door after the horse has already escaped.  I believe we need to be proactive years before these kids get to the point where they are so frustrated and angry that they want to kill people.  We  adults have made so many mistakes in the last 10-15 years, and now we are starting to see the results of our stupidity.  We allow children to be disrespectful to everyone-parents, teachers, and each other with absolutely no consequences for that behavior. We have taken phys ed out of schools so kids can no longer burn off their stress and excess energy in physical excertion. Nor do we encourage physical activity outside of school. We have a society that eats mostly junk-no nutrition, just fat and sugar- filled overprocessed garbage.  Then take into account our TV programming  that is so loaded with advertising urging us to buy! buy! buy! all kinds of useless junk and worthless "foods" that a friend of mine from Russia says our TV ads remind him of how Russian propaganda was there 15 years ago, which is a scary thought.  The buy! buy! buy! mentality of TV has created a society where the majority of both parents have to work to afford the things they're talked into thinking they must have resulting in kids being left home alone, ignored and unsupervised, to watch violent, disrespectful, rude and crude TV programming, or to play violent, bloody, crude and disrespectful computer games.  Add to this the growing number of single-parent homes with no mom or no dad and kids who feel somehow it's their fault that mom or dad left. Then consider that the majority of kids I know have absolutely no responsibility around their homes--they don't have to help care for their homes, help prepare meals, work in the yard, or even make their own beds and I believe that the combination of all these things creates a society with kids completely lost, feeling useless, worthless, bored and out of control. Parents I know seem to think that their kids will just somehow pick up the things they need to learn, like self-control, responsibility, self-respect , a good work ethic, cooking, laundry, child care and everything else automatically without them having to be there to teach them these things. I believe that unless and until these basic issues are corrected, the problem with kids killing kids will continue to escalate. No handbook on how to deal with a crises in school is going to help.  The shots will have already been fired.

Thank you for an eloquent and articulate DIAGNOSIS of these INTER-RELATED SOCIAL PROBLEMS!

 

YOU gave us all the HANDBOOK, in this message, of our adult "HOMEWORK" assignment!

 

WE CAN DO THIS!    THIS IS DO-ABLE!    

 

Let's start, one day at a time, CLEANING UP OUR HOMES, literally, side-by-side with our kids!

The "chores" at hand range from housework to classwork, from work to play!

Kids need models, partners, adults to TEACH them how to clean up after themselves, be responsible, cook, clean, study, relax, play, communicate--in other words, mature into FUNCTIONING PEOPLE.

 

There was a time, in our country, when families really did share in the work, together.   WE CAN DO IT! 

 
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October 16, 2007, 2:03 pm PDT

Abandoned boys---not really "NEWS"

Quote From: lilroo25

We are ignoring the most important part of these shootings. These are boys and we are excepting violence from males as the norm. I watched a great documentary in college that looked at the culture of our society. It particularly pointed to what stands out is what we think of as abnormal. Women who are violent stand out. We talk about them constantly. But these school shootings are all boys. Why aren't we talking about that? Why aren't we talking about all the messages within our society that equates violence with manliness? We need to start addressing the idea of men and violence being normal.

I have two sons---two wonderful men, now.

 

My heart aches, every time I watch the evening news: A boy shot and killed other students and teachers.

I always ask the same question, out loud:  DO THESE BOYS HAVE LOVING, INVOLVED DADS?

 

HAPPY BOYS DO NOT KILL.

 

One of the GREATEST PERSONAL TRAGEDIES of all time is UNINVOLVED FATHERS.

Where are they?

 

Ask EVERY man and boy you know, TONIGHT, if they have loving, involved fathers in their lives.

 

I think the answers will shock you into the recognition of this UNIVERSAL PROBLEM.

 

 

 

 

 
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October 16, 2007, 2:17 pm PDT

But YOU did not snap!

Quote From: divatude1

I sent an email over the weekend trying to describe  the anger I felt after getting home from yet another unpleasant experience. You see, the smallest thing can bring a person to loose it completely. No one takes a minute to think that they may be dealing with someone who has gone through it maybe seconds before this person is standing in front of them. I am a 43 year old black ,American, disabled,plus size woman, now already the odds are against me but I don't allow this to stop me. I have been through so many things that the average person can not even fathom but when I have to deal with day to day situations it's always magnified 1000 times because I'm taking care of my parents as well. When I am subjected to, rude,ignorant, nasty, condescending and disrespectful individuals. Just for that second I can feel myself leave my body in order to deal with the over abundance of rage. All it takes is one word, a gesture to send a person over the edge. People who deal with the public should take 30 seconds to think before they demean, humiliate and disregard the person they're talking to and that includes family and friends.

You are a beautiful and adult example of intelligent behavior:   You THINK before you act!

 

THIS IS WHAT IS MISSING TODAY:  THINKING PEOPLE!    I admire you!

 
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October 16, 2007, 2:32 pm PDT

Forget your "magic" bullets!

Quote From: sahmwith4

True, true!

 

Thank you for your post and opinion!

Kids use drugs because they are UNHAPPY and TROUBLED.

 

Kids use guns because they are UNHAPPY and TROUBLED.

 

Your brand of logic is simply not relevant to today's kids and schools.

We parents and educators, who deal with the kids and families DAILY, know that guns are no answer.

 

Education is more than counseling a TROUBLED kid from a TROUBLED family life.

Education is the PROCESS OF LEARNING how to think and solve problems, not cause them.

 

Guns and violence are the problems, along with troubled families.  Get to the root causes!

 

 
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October 16, 2007, 4:55 pm PDT

Why can't teachers carry weapons??

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.
 
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October 16, 2007, 5:32 pm PDT

A teachable moment---LOST!

Quote From: msteacherlady

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.

After  9/11, cockpits were FINALLY SECURED AND LOCKED!!!   (That keeps armed men out.)

 

Let's address the "teachable moment" with your student's EXCELLENT QUESTION:

 

"What would happen if I shot a teacher?"

 

My degrees are in Behavioral Science and Legal Studies.  I would have LOVED this question!

 

I would have opened up the class discussion this way:

 

"Class, who can answer that ?   What WILL HAPPEN to students who shoot a teacher?

Will the student's age matter?    Will he be arrested/ tried/convicted in adult court?

Will his parents have any criminal charges against them for aiding/ abetting the criminal?

What is "child endangerment?"      What is First Degree Murder?  

Who wants to research these and other questions and share the information tomorrow in class?

Who can bring in CASES where students were convicted of this crime?"...etc., etc., etc....

 

THIS WAS A VALUABLE TEACHABLE MOMENT WHERE KIDS COULD LEARN SOMETHING!

 

It appears that it was LOST, in the fears of the staff.   I am very disappointed, because it was a VALID question that deserved valid explanations.   Good grief, why did the teacher LEAP into the quicksand of fear and start strapping on a gun?    IT WAS A GREAT QUESTION!     The "teachable moment" was lost.

 

 

 

 

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October 17, 2007, 2:41 am PDT

A European perspective on gun-violence

First of all, I am so sorry for everybody who becomes a victim of violence. Here is the deal seen from an outside perspective: In Norway we hear about gun violence happening all the time in America, and almost never anywhere else in the world. Not only are the gun-crimes frequent, violent crime in general seems to be. Through my studies I have learned a lot about sociology related to law, and we do know some things about why my country Norway has a very low crime-rate compared to many Western countries. I wish to stress that our laws and systems are far from perfect especially related to domestic abuse, but we still are doing some things right:

 

- Most of the population including most of the military and the police-force are not allowed to carry guns in public unless they have separate, specific permits for each occasion.

- Keeping guns at home is almost equally strictly regulated. The general population is not allowed to unless they have special permits as soldiers or trained hunters. The only unexpected shooting episodes we have had in Norway have happened related to these guns (excluding the long term criminals).

- Without the guns, we are still not more frequently attacked, assaulted, robbed, and I believe we are less vulnerable without all these guns lying around everywhere.

- I personally believe that our capital punishment is far too lenient, and I have not seen any examples of this contributing to fewer crimes with one exception: If people are to be let back out into society, it should happen as soon as possible to avoid the individuals to adjust too much to the prison culture which is not compatible with how society on the outside works. From a functional standpoint, criminals ought to be tried, convicted, rehabilitated and released as quickly and efficiently as possible for the sake of success, or they should be kept in jail forever for the protection of society.

- Norway has a much debated but somewhat restrictive alcohol policy, and the numbers clearly support restriction contrary to the popular opinion. Most crimes are committed while intoxicated, and the vast majority happens under the influence of alcohol.

- Social issues such as little education, poverty and mental health problems more often than not factor into what makes a criminal. We are lucky to not have a lot of murders or serious, violent attacks in Norway. Many of our attacks have been associated with too poor mental healthcare on society’s part.

- Conclusion: Far more restrictive policies concerning guns and alcohol would probably make a huge difference to American crime-rates. To those who object in the name of the individual’s right to party and protect themselves I have only one thing to say: I would much rather live with a slightly “parenting” and overprotective Government’s restrictions than being shot by a mentally ill person who used the gun he keeps to protect himself from thieves or being hit by a drunk driver who just had to take a few too many drinks. Very few children do well without boundaries, and I believe America frequently proves that the same is the case for the adult population. My friends, you are paying a high price for some of your freedoms. Is it really worth it?

 
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October 17, 2007, 6:22 am PDT

Attempt number 4

Once more I will attempt to make a point.  That is what these message boards are for right?  Who decides what goes on it.  If it makes a clear point and does not contain foul language it should be posted right?  4 times I have tried to express my opinion on the new set and format of Dr. Phil's "Now."   I didn't just come in on a load of turnips so I assume that other people have made this comment and been blocked as well. I guess Dr.Phil does not want to get real when it comes to HIS shortcomings. 

Once more I will make the case that to put Casey Keyes and his mother on a set with life sized screens of kids diving under tables, Klebold firing his weapon and laughing in the woods, and carnage all around was insensitive at best.  I imagine that they may have suffered a set back as a result.  Dr. Phil, we like the sensitive, no nonsense, caring Dr. Phil.  Don't become "Hollywood Phil." 

I deserve to open a dialog about this topic.  I am sorry if it offends.  The next time I will make my case in the editorial page of the LA Times. 

 
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October 17, 2007, 6:47 am PDT

10/12 Homecoming Shooting

Quote From: msteacherlady

On Monday, October 15th, I was having a discussion with my first block English repeat class about Langston Hughes' "What Happens to a Dream Deferred?" when a student randomly blurted out, "What would happen if I shot a teacher?" I was stunned! I was shocked! I wondered if that student really JUST said that! After about 30 seconds, I replied, "Excuse me!?" THe student immediately put his head down for the rest of the period. I didn't want to make a huge deal out of it in front of the whole class, so I finished the activity and waited for class to end. Once class was over, I immediately went to the principal and told him what happened. I spent the entirety of 2nd block in the principals office while he interviewed the student and other students in my class that heard him say what he did. The student who said it admitted it openly,"Yeah, thats what I said." When asked why he said it, he would only shrug and say, "I don't know." The student was expelled that day for the rest of the year. When his mother game to pick him up, she defended her son and said that they didn't own any guns at home and that her son probably just said it to make people laugh. She just didn't seem to get how serious the situation was or the inappropriateness her son's comment. I am still haunted by his words and am scared to think about what could happen and whether or not his expulsion will just give him more opportunity to plan and think about doing something evil. I would feel so much better if teachers, who had their state gun carry permit, could carry their weapons on their person during school. I feel we have the right to protect ourselves and our students and we can't do that empy handed. A lot of what has happened in the past with school shootings could have been minimized if teachers, who were properly trained to carry and handle a gun, were allowed to carry a gun on their person in school. I know I would feel MUCH more comfortable walking into school if I could protect myself, because no matter how many school resource officers there are on campus, they cannot be with every individual person within the school 24/7. After 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry guns in the cockpit; therefore, it only makes sense that after all these high school shootings and frequently occuring threats, that teachers be allowed to carry guns on their person.

The student in your class was probably asking a rhetorical and question and you should have given him a chance to elaborate. Or perhaps kept him after class for a minute and had a one on one talk with him.

 

Having said that, I agree completely with you that teachers like yourself who have their state gun carry permit, and want to, should be allowed to take them to school with them. No student in any of your classes would know you had a gun. I would  much rather have a child of mine in a class room with you than in a class room where the teacher is armed merely with their degrees.

 

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