Topic : 03/20 Policing the Parents

PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPS, I HAVE LIMITED VISION. 

 

THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVE APPEARANCE ON DOCTOR PHIL.  YOU USED SO MANY OF THE PHRASES I USED.  FROM I KNOW MY DAD LOVES ME BUT HE LOVES BEER MORE.  PLAYING HIDE THE BOTTLE, HIDE THE MONEY.  THE SCARINESS OF FINDING HIM PASES OUT.  THE FIRST TIME I THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD.  bY ALLOWING DR PHIL TO ADDRESS YOUR PAIN IN A PUBLIC MEDIA, YOU HELPED ME RESOLVE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BUGGING ME FOR 30 YERS. (I AM 54.  MY DAD DIED OF LIVER FAILURE AT 44).

 

AND YOU SISTER.  I ALSO SAID MAYBE IF THEY CAN SEE HOW MUCH PAIN I AM IN IT WILL HELP.  I WAS HAPPY TO HAVE PAIN I COULD CONTROL, AT LEAST IT GAVE ME SOME POWER IN A POWERLESS SITUATION.

 

SO HERE ARE SOME LEARNING EXPERIENCES, THAT MAY SAVE YOU SOME TIME.

 

BEWARE OF BECOMING THE PERMANENT HERO IN THE FAMILY.  AT 54 MY MOTHER AND BROTHERS STILL EXCPECT ME TO COME TO THE RESCUE.  FOR EXAMPLE, MY BROTHER WAS HAVING DTS DUE TO ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL AND MY MOTHER CALLED ME IN DENVER (THEY ARE IN CHICAGO) TO HANDLE IT.

 

I NEVER HAD KIDS BECAUSE I WAS DONE AFTER  PROTECTING MY YOUNGER BROTHERS FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF MY PARENTS CHOICES AND MY PARENTS FROM THEMSELVES/

 

IT IS ALWAYS HARD TO BE THE ONE TO MAKE THE "FAMILY SECRET" PUBLIC. IT IS HARDER STILL TO LEARN THT YOU CAN'T SAVE AN ADDICT, THEY CAN ONLY SAVE THEMSELVES.

 

I HOPE YOUR FATHER'S TREATMENT WORKS.  I WON'T EVEN GET STARTED ON HEALTH PLANS THAT THINK YOU CAN CURE AN ADDICT IN A WEEK. 

 

AND REMEMVER JUST BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS LOVE YOU, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO BE GOOD PARENTS.

 

IF TALKING TO A STRANGER CAN HELP, FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME.  YOUR SISTER TOO.  MARY

 

 

 

 

I wish it were that simple.  I live with a raging alcoholic and can't for the life of me tell you why I'm still here.  My children are practically grown (2 in college and 1 a jr. in high school) and have lived in this situation for their entire life.  It didn't get bad until they were probably pre-teen to early teens and even then it was such a sneaky, insidious disease that you don't realize how bad it is.  I remember it being something horrible to say about my husband when my oldest child was 2.  That started to whole process of trying to fix the situation to accepting that he was an alcholic and still trying to fix it, to knowing that I can't change him or force him to stop.  It's a lot like an abused family in that the emotional abuse is heaped out in such outrageous amounts and then things level off and he stops.  What really happened was he drank enough to get past the mean stage but the peace is so welcome that to rock that boat is tantamount to touching a hot burner. So you wait for the other shoe to fall and it ALWAYS falls.  Meanwhile your children are witnessing a horrendous mess of a marriage and no matter how hard you jump in to protect them from the insanity, the insanity of it all wins.  If I could do it all over again I would have gotten out 15 years ago.  That being said I feel like my leg is anchored to the floor and I can't get away.  I'm a smart, well-educated woman who intelligiently knows I need to leave but can't figure out why I can't.  I don't believe there's love between us anymore.I don't enable, other than not leaving ,and I end up touching that hot burner over and over.

 

The woman on the program worked for a substance abuse group. Maybe she did that to try and figure out her own situation. I beleive I do. As for the teachers and counselors at school.  I work, believe it or not ,with the behavior kids at a middle school.  I see kids in this same situation and can relate to their plight.  I cannot legally suggest to a parent to get out or take steps unless there is direct signs of neglect or physical abuse or they tell us they're being abused.  My kids showed no outward signs of what was going on in our home. Emotional ,devastating abuse doesn't show physical marks.  Kids in our program are in there not because of enviromental (home) issues.  As a school employee our hands are tied to help kids who are not neglected physically or physically abused.  My children fit this profile to a tee.  I had one who's grades dropped dramatically and he started being disruptive in class.  He was more the class clown and quite popular but occassionally his anger played into it.  When I met with the teachers, they were shocked to learn of his homelife and practically called me a liar.  They said he was always so happy at school and had lots of friends.  They dismissed my explanation for what was happening.  Can I blame them?  No because unless you've lived in the middle of this horrible disease that is often hidden from public view you can;t possibly understand the hidden bruises.  I believe he was happy at school because he wasn't at home.  That is the most devastating statement to me. Yet I can't get out. Not that simple.  Wish I caould figure out the answer.

First of all, I don't understand why a diabetic would self-medicate with sugar.   Diabetes is caused from a lack of insulin, the hormone used to break down sugar.  As a diabetes since age 11, if I ran out of insulin and decided to "self-medicate" with sugar, (1) my doctors WOULD have some negative things to say to me and (2) I'd be dead within days, if not hours...

Secondly, I would just like to point out that we must do a lot more than just watch what we eat... I only wish it were so simple.  :)

Finally, I do understand both of your points in comparing alcoholism to a medical condition.  I am in a relationship with an alcoholic, so I too have used this analogy many times.  It is not okay to criticize the person when the disease makes a mistake.  However, just as was pointed out, having a chronic condition of any sort requires maintenance and it is (fair or not) up to the person to do what is necessary to survive.  An alcoholic does have the psychological ability to use alternative coping strategies to deal with temptation and frustration, just as a diabetic must measure, count, and make choices/adjustments.  I cannot rely solely on insulin to do all of the work for me, just as my fiance cannot rely just on AA or some miracle drug to the thinking for him.  I know that it is a deep-routed issue, but I also know that persons with addictions tend to have an external locus of control, meaning that they do not take responsibility for their wrong-doing nor do they have a sense of pride when they make positive decisions.  They tend to leave everything in God's hands, and/or place blame elsewhere.  I have heard countless times, "My parents were the same way, so it's not my fault", "I just got lucky", or "If they could just zap the addiction center in my brain".  (Yes, he actually wants to have laser surgery on his brain to do just that...)

Wow, I watched the show yesterday, and did all I could to get my 18-year-old daughter to watch, and she did everything she could not to..

 

I too, married an alcoholic, who of course promised to quit drinking when our child was born. He was/is a binge drinker, since he was 14 (now 45), and only sober for 2 years during this time. When my daughter was young I tried all that I could to help him. I will never forget the many, many, many time he fell to his knees and begged "us" to help him get sober, to forgive him, to take him back (which I kept doing). He simply would not leave our then maybe 3-8 year old daughter out of the pic.. I will never forget what he did when I finally kicked him out.. She was 4, and it was the night before Easter. He got on his "cowboy, Im a real man clothes," and started walking out the door as my daughter grabbed at the bottom of his jeans and begged him to stay home for the "Easter bunny." I will never forget how he told this little girl, "no one tells me what to do," "you are just like your mom." Wow. some things you never forget.. Well, at age 7 I got rid of him for the last time..It was so hard, raising her on my own.. Many bad thing happened to us, and when we needed him, he was no where to be found (of course, he was drinking).. Three times she tried to spend the night with her dad, and all 3 times he had some kind of other drunk or drug addict living in his "trailer" and she was so uncomfortable I just brought her back home. To this day, he continues to drink, continues to lie, and continues to live in a trailer.. He had a bad car wreck and broke his ribs 2 years ago, and now, on top of his drinking, he takes a minimum of 6 Vicodin a day, on top of his drinking..

 

His family continues to enable his behavior, going to his rescue, forgiving him.. His mom is so disgusting that she made sure he bought the trailer right next to her, so that she could keep an eye on him.. Am I mad, oh hell yes I am.. He works for the family business, and his brothers continue to let him work because he is a "functioning drunk," although I cannot tell you how many times he missed work cuz of a hangover.. He got in a horrible car wreck 2 years ago, broke all his ribs, and again, "oh please forgive me, I see the light," I need to be here to take care of our daughter, I will never drink again," oh yea, right.. That lasted about 4 months, and he went right back to it and continues to do so, as well as eating more than 2000 Vicodin a year. Now that you have this history, I now want to talk about my daughter, and I am hoping to meet some others who are in the same boat.

 

My daughter, now 18, is so, so, so, mad and angry I have no idea how to even relate to her her anymore.  We get in the most horrible fights.. She has been so confused all of life, because of his alcoholism, (oh yea, he did crystal meth for 2 years and chose to share that with us as well). All she does is hate me and tell me what a fool I was to marry a drunk, and how dare I give birth to her when I knew I was married to a drunk.. She totally hates me and everything I say or do.. Her life has been in such an upheavel, her entire life, she was only able to attend public school through the 4th grade, and then home-schooled with a tutor for the rest of her schooling.. This, alone, made her very antisocial, because she did not encounter other kids her age, although I begged her to go to school, she simply would walk home if I took her.. I did have her in dance, and art classes, and all that I could possibly do, but now I see the product of our marriage. 

 

I simply no longer no what to do... Since she turned about 14, her dad has turned to her when he gets drunk, and she and her boyfriend have now become enablers, going to pick him up from the bar. One night, she and his mother went to the bar at 3 in the morning because he called our daughter on her cell phone, telling her he could not breathe, and that he was dying.. I told her I would not help him, but I would call him a cab, she got really angry with me, called his mom, and she and my daughter took at at 3 in the morning to pick up the drunk.. She recorded him on her cell phone, and I was so distraught, what I heard.. Since then, he has continued to bring her into his drinking, calling her when he is drunk, being so mean to her, being so cruel, that she feels worthless in her own life.. He says things that are unbelievable to her, and yet, she continues to accept his phone calls..

 

Every month I get child support, I have had to take unbelievable abuse from this man, and although she is almost 19, and I will no longer be entitiled, I have had to tolerate his abuse just to keep paying our bills. He feels that because he pays child support he is a good parent.. He hates every boyfriend she has had, and at one time even threatened to hang one of her friends from a tree when he was drunk..

 

Well, now, my daughter talks all the time about how life sucks, how there is no God, how its all my fault, ..  she has been on antidepressants and they made her worse. she now refuses to be on anything, and my hands are tied.. she is 18, and I no longer have any say.

 

If anyone out here is reading this, and you are an addict/alcoholic, KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT that you are ruining your child. you have a sickness, not the child.. Stay away from your child unless you are sober. If you are the sober parent responsible for a child, know that this might come your way. I tried all that I could to help her.. I took her to couselors, Al-Ateen, doctors, all that I could, but he would never let up on us, and so she has lived this hell ..... I hurt for her so bad, I cannot do anything to help her anymore, she has given up on me.. she hates me for having him be her dad, and I hate myself..

 

Although I did all that I could to keep her out of our relationship, he made sure she was right in the middle of it, behind my back. Never, ever, ever, let your child be put in this harms way, it will shape them for life. She no longer even believes in God, and can you blame her? I too, am questioing my own faith, all because of a drunk..

 

Please, keep us in your prayers.. do all that you can to protect your children from this horrible, horrible disease.. You cannot and wil not change the drunk, and to try to keep him in your child's life is a BIG MISTAKE. Keep them away, until they are clean and sober, or unless they are clean and sober.

 

I hope someone gets some insight from my story.. thank you for listening..

 

 

Dr. Phil DID offer therapy to the daughters and to his wife, which they were very graeful to accept. It was at the very end of the show.

With respect to rehab~ it's the only chance this poor soul has at a chance of getting sober and learning to live sober.

I am the adult child of an alcoholic. I have been estranged from my father for over 4 years. Our relationship became too emotionally draining on me. i was sick all the time, just being around my father. Every relationship i had was with someone exactly like my father--until now. When I finally began to worry about myself instead of worring about him all the time, i became blessed with a wonderful, healthy marriage. My husband has shown me a lifestyle that my father always convinced me wasn't possible. "real life isn't happy and normal" is what he always told me and my siblings. Guess what Dad, life can be like "Leave it to beaver". I've neaver been happier in my life. my mother finally divorced my father after nearly 40 years of marriage. I don't recall too many times in my childhood when my mother was happy. But, after divorcing my father, and not being under his control and more, she became the happiesst women in the world. I thank the Lord for giving my mother that strength. Thank you, Dr. Phil, for giving these kids a voice!!

I have lived with a raging alcholic for over 30 years now. Yes, my husband. Unlike the wife on the show, I did all the work. My kids didn't know about this until they were older. I hid it from them the best I could with excuses upon excuses. Daddys not feeling well. Daddy spilled some water on the floor (as he would urinate on the kitchen floor, not know where the heck he was) These excuses were carried on for years by me. THEN, I got smart, my kids got older, and I left. Several times. Once I left he swore I would never be allowed back in the house or see my kids again. Bull, I went back home. I got into therapy. I went to AlAnon. I've been in al anon for over 20 years.
I am a daughter of an alcholic as well. The things I remember prior to my parents divorce were not pleasant. This only to marry one.
He didn't display any alcholic behavior until many many years after we got married. Then my brother died in a car accident because he was drunk. This you think would scare my husband straight. Nope. It only became worse. My husband can drink a case of beer in less than three hours. Black out, become verbally abusive. I lived under his control for over 20 years. NOW, I refuse to live under the control of anyone. With the help of my doctor, she has taught me that his drinking is not my fault. Was was an enabler (which I probably knew but denied). I lied for him. I made excuses for him. The one think I will not do is buy him beer.
My daughter moved out of the house when she was just 19. She couldn't handle the stress. My son who is now 22, still lives at home. He is still in college, works two jobs and is a volunteer firefighter. He is an intern in a police department, with hopes of becoming a Police Officer soon. He is frustrated with his fathers behavior. He also refuses to go to Al Anon though. He has asked me to please get Dad to stop drinking. He'll say isn't there anything you can do? Yes, this man drinks and drives. My worst fear is that he will kill someone.
My life is a living hell lately. BUT it is my choice to stay. I know I sound crazy, but like I said it is my choice. I have no power over alcohol. I know that.
For years I was abused, both physcially and mentally. I was a mess. I'm still a mess. Although I get help for myself, he refuses help. He did go to AA once for about two months. Yea, he's cured. NOT. He ended up having to go to France for three months for his job. Worst place for an alcoholic. He said it's great here, wine is flowing out of fountains like water. Great I said. NOT. Back to drinking he went. He refuses to go back to AA. It's a cult he said. It's just not for him. Well we all know (if you know any alcoholics) they have so many excuses why they drink. For me, it was I made him drink. Me and the kids were too much stress, compounded with his job is the reason. Yea Yea. I dont buy it any more. I don't pop the top to the beer can, or put it in his hand, or pour it down his throat. He does all that. He takes no responsiblity for any of this. In fact on the Dr. Phil show, it shocked my on how long it takes to totally detox. Even though he's never been to a rehab center, I know in his heart he would resist it. Therefore it wouldn't work for him. I would love the have the kind of money to send him to that fancy Rehab Center in Texas that Dr. Phil uses because my husband makes the husband on the show look like a saint.
I will stay. I will continue on being his wife. What I would love to do for myself is just one night, get some sleep. I also have an illness, in fact several health issues, but with his illness I sleep very little. I listen for him during the night. We sleep in separte rooms now. But I hear him get up about every half hour to use the bathroom. Sometimes, I have to redirect him to the bathroom. I do have to be careful doing this. In the past I've been hit and knocked against walls because he didn't have a clue it was me doing this for him. He is totally out of it. Recently in the middle of the night, I heard him have a bar fight with our dining room table. Don't really know who won, but I'll tell you the chairs where scattered all over the kitchen the next morning. He has no memory of doing this. I don't get up anymore and try to stop him doing stupid things, I just protect myself, my animals and my house.
That is just a little part of my story. Thank you for reading this.

I was really surprised by the 14 year old child taking care of her father, and her mother. What a daughter. Is she really that strong?  Well,  putting on a great front, I would say.  She remembers life as being fun at age 7.  Lets see, from birth to age 7 those were her great years.  I don't know what she remembers from age 2 and 3,  and I am sure she remembers not much more than a couple of things at age 4, and now remembering a little more at age 5.  So, that really leaves just two years of happy life that she is able to remember, maybe.   Now, she gets to live the second seven years.  She had to take care of her father, be a strong care giver for him, cleaning up his puke, blood, and escorting him home for half of her life.  (You know dad, I bet she was really proud of you in front of her friends, if she had any.)  He is a thief, he stole from her.  What happened to those girls childhood?  I wish I had the money to send Keryn and her sister to a fun place for a great time of their lives, allowing her to be a real true teenager, for the first time. 

Dr. Phil, you were so correct, she is just a child.  But one who had to grow up so she could  become a parent to her parents.  Wow!  What a hard job that would be for an adult, let alone a child.  ( hope her mother can appreciate how strong her daughter is)

Please keep us informed as to their progress.  I am so glad she had the guts, spirit and ability to write you. 

Keryn, if you read this,  You are a really a very special person.  Hang in there. I hope you have had the chance to be a teenager for the first time in your life, and get the help you need. I really hope you get to enjoy the rest of your life.  And YES, you really are that strong.  You are a very special person. Best to you and God bless you. 

 

 

Karen was certainly able to speak very clearly to Dr. Phil.  I'm wondering why she was not just as forthcoming with whomever is counseling her.  She stated basically that they were not addressing all her needs and were focusing on school.  It is apparent that Karen is capable of finding the words to inform her counselor(s) that ALL of her problems are not being met.       

 After being married to an alcoholic for 18yrs , It drives me crazy to hear the comparison of disease and alcoholism . You said this about your fiance, In my own words hindsight being 20/20 GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please do not bring children into this relationship. My 4 kids are permanently scarred from their fathers alcoholism. And even now after being seperated for 4 yrsand divorced for 3 months(he refused to sign papers) he still calls me in drunken rages and when I don't answer he calls the kids. My 18yr old is in dentention for drugs,has post traumatic stress disorder from watching the drunken violence in our home while growing up.Again PLEASE RUN as fast as you can.