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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 29, 2007, 5:48 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: tertiushand

I think there was point that was touched around on the show but it was never quite said.  I believe in this case there are two different kinds of obligations, there is the moral obligation and there is the legal obligation.

I don't believe at Enrique should be legally obligated to do anything, child support or emotional support any more than the mother was legally obligated to tell Enrique he wasn't the father.  However, I do believe Enrique should be morally obligated to to still be there emotionally for the child as her father because he has been that all of her life.

If the lady in red would have stopped yelling for a minute, maybe she could understand what that means.  Everything she said was right, BUT what she said was what he should be morally obligated to do, not legally obligated to do.  I'm sorry lady, the world isn't perfect and you can't make it that way, if people want to be jerks, they can be.  You can't make everyone moral by passing laws.

If we start making every moral decision a law, we'll all be screwed.  If we are worried about the mother going on welfare, then she should have thought about that before she had the affair and before she lied to Enrique and before she committed purgury by lying on a federal document.  And there she was so smuggly shaking her head at Enrique as if what he did was somehow worse that what she did.
couldnt have said it better myself
 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

She said it best

Quote From: w2ngmz

Dr.Phil:

 

I applaud your courage in bringing the controversial issue of paternity fraud to the public. It is a crime that has many victims, the duped father, the child whose life is completely changed, the siblings of that child, and the malevolent mother who continues to line her pockets as a result of lies and deceit.

 

I am a victim of paternity fraud in two ways, at age 53 I found out that I was adopted by my grandparents, that my sister is my real mother and I have no idea who my father is. Before that however, I became the 2nd wife of a man who thought he had 3 children. It turned out that he was the victim of paternity fraud and the youngest child is not his biological child. Like Enrique and Maria they divorced and he became responsible for child support. And the youngest child looked like my husband. In fact we had been featured in an issue of Mens Journal magazine and when the reporter asked to see some family pictures I saw a picture of my husbands former best friend, the man who fathered the youngest child born of his marriage, and asked him David, when were you that heavy? My husband David replied that the picture was of Jerry and his wife Sybil on the beach. So looks do not always reveal a childs parentage.

 

Maria knew all along that there was another candidate for biological father sand paved the way to have Enrique accept the child as his and to not ask questions. The damage that Maria has done to this child is not even at the tip of the iceberg. What happens if the child eventually gives birth to a child with a genetic defect that does not run in her family, such as happened to Morgan

Wise who found out that 3 of the 4 children he believed were his  were not because they were afflicted with a genetic disease for which he did not carry the recessive gene. Or when the child turns 50 and all the aches and pains and illnesses such as heart disease, high cholesterol or others start happening and the child had no medical knowledge of her fathers background.

 

Marriage and support of children is a contract and no contract is enforceable if done by fraud. Maria defrauded Enrique so he has no responsibility to the child once he is divorced. He has acted In Parentis Locus during the marriage and provided support. That is all that is required, he is nothing more than a stepfather.

 

And if as Maria states, it is all about Enrique having to pay child support then why is he not disputing it for the child that is his biological child. I assume the older girl is his, there was no mention of a DNA test.  The fact that Enrique has an MD came out at the end of the show, and it is the perfect case of father shopping. Enrique could offer more financial stability then the man Maria was cheating  with, so she took the logical decision, stayed with the man that had more money and lied to him

 

As far as Enrique telling the child that he is not the biological daughter it is obvious that in 10 years plus the year that Maria was carrying the child was not enough time for Maria to reveal the truth.

Who would have told the child who deserves and has every right to know the truth about her biological heritage? In my husband, David Ziskinds case  he confronted his ex-wife with the truth and she denied it, but told his two older children that your father is saying  that your little sister is not his to get out of paying child support. If my husband wanted to get out of paying child support, why would he not say all three children are not his? His older daughter called him up and said that if you do not tell Natalie we will. So he told her over the phone because once Sybil Hart knew that her ex-husband was aware of the truth she ran to Texas from Miami with the children. In fact the children had less then a weeks notice that they were moving. We only found out when Allison, the oldest child called her father crying that Mommy was moving them in two days. When David told the youngest child he was put in jail for contempt of court, but we got his conviction overturned. All the information can be found at http://florida.paternityfraud.com or through Carnell Smiths web link.

 

As for Enrique no longer seeing the child that was not his he had no other choice if he did not want to be held legally responsible for her. Once he knew the truth he could no longer act as her father. If he did the law would be that he accepted the truth and continued to act as her father. He would never be able to be freed from the legal responsibility if he maintained a relationship.

 

Mia, the second wife was demonized unfairly. She and Enrique may want to have their own children, and yet the money would go to the children of his first marriage before the children of the second marriage would receive a fair and equal amount of parental support. The child support system creates and elite class of children and a secondary class, those of the 2nd marriage whose children are always the last to be considered. Isnt it amazing that Mia and Enrique would be more responsible for a child that has no blood relation to either of them over their own blood children? Such is the mess that the child support system has created.

 

Dr.Phil, I have worked extensively with Carnell Smith and while he has been able to be liberated from the family court system, we have not.  My husband and I will be paying child support because of this fraud well into our retirement years. The Courts do not look upon the duped dad as a victim, the women is always the victim, even if she appears before the court with unclean hands.

 

As far as Gloria Allred and her famous cases, you conveniently forgot to mention that Amber Frey way a paternity fraud perpetrator. She lied about who fathered her child and victimized an innocent man. That alone should put her testimony in the murder case in question.

 

The way to solve this problem so that it no longer happens is to have a DNA test at birth, or at the very least, upon filing a divorce or child custody case. We no longer rely on English Common Law for most of our legal system. Why in the face of science do we not get rid of the law based upon the women being married to convey legality of the child? if DNA can get a man out of jail for rape or off death row why are men forced to pay child support when they are not the father?

 

If Gloria Allred wants women to be equal before the law and on the legal playing field, then why does she say that it is all right for women to profit through lies and deceit?

 

Marias new husband Chris should be careful. If Maria committed fraud once she will do it again. And if Maria is really concerned with the best interests of her child rather than lining her pockets with illegally gotten gain then she would make sure to find the childs biological father and make him step up to the plate, as the saying goes. But Maria does not have her childrens best interests at heart, she is merely crying crocodile tears and playing the victim. She is the victimizer and she needs to be punished.

 

Nadine G.Mendelsohn-Ziskind

Florida Citiens Against Paternity Fraud

I agree with everything that was said here.  I could not have said it better.

 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

Sad situation

 

After watching the show today, I feel very sorry  for the father and daughter. They are the victims. I do not feel sorry  for the mother, she knew exactly what she was doing. He should not have to pay child support. Gloria Allred is a liberated woman, and seems to think that whatever a woman does is right. I do not agree with anything she says. It seems that when it comes to children, the mothers always have the upper hand, no matter what, with the exception of a father that has molested his child then the court gives them unsupervised visits. Our court system is really screwed up.

 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

DNA TESTING AT BIRTH

I believe the simplest way to make sure that no child has to find out when they are older that their father is not who they thought it was it to have a DNA test performed at birth.  This will ensure that the father is who the mother says he is.  If the man will not submit to the test and the mother believes that he is the father, at that time his name should be added to the birth certificate with an asterisk beside his name.  Furthermore, the courts should go after these mothers who are looking for a "handout".  The mother on the show today made me sick with all the facial expressions she was making throughout the show. 
 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: disneymom5

I just about had a stroke watching the show ! My husband and I LIVED this just a few short years ago ! My husband had been married before and when the 3 kids were taken from the ex, due to her drug use, and CPS was going to give them to us, SHE is the one who screamed that "the girl is not his !" (she was 7 at the time)... Well, that opened up the can of worms that ended up costing us over $30,000.00 !!!!!! This all happened in Washington State,  a state that CATERS to LIARS, and THEIVES !  We had a DNA test done, and sure enough, my husband was NOT the father ! This PIG of a woman (let's call it what it IS here, folks), even NAMED the BIO dad --- that STILL did not matter to the corrupt state of WA ! They went after my husband full force to STILL pay support, because, they would not let us raise her because she was not his bio kid, but flat out told us that he would still have to pay support. That was evil ! So, we lawyered up and fought back, MAKING Wa state go after the bio dad !  After 2 years, of fighting this, WE WON !!!   May I add, before the court fight ,the courts took all my husband's  visitation away because the PIG "mother", told the child  he was NOT her dad ! They said it would be damaging to her to still see him, knowing he was not the dad.  So, you see, he was not the one to cut off the relationship with the kid --- the state of WA did that !!  They had told him that he would not be allowed to see her, talk to her, or know anything about her, but had to financially support her.  It was truly a hard fight, but , in the end when we won, we knew we did the right thing.   My husband did everything he was supposed to, and time and time again the state of WA screwed him over !  For all those out there who think a man should pay for a kid that is not thiers, just because they were there for a few years, (or 10 --- I don't care how long it was ), you are just as sick and twisted as the liar "mother" !  Why don't YOU pay for the kid then??? You would be as related to her as the accused man is !  By having these men STOLEN from,--- AND YES, THAT IS WHAT IT IS ----- just gives these sub-human "women" a free ticket and reward for being a liar and a theif ! For the courts  to tell a man that they are non-exsistent except for the WALLET they own is the lowest form of evil I know ! They , like the creep women they  protect, care NOT ONE BIT about what is FAIR and RIGHT, but, who has the easiest wallet to steal from !  And the whining of "but what about the chillldddd?" Give me a break ! Have the whore "mother" deal with that ! It is called CONSEQUENCES ! Maybe if we held these PIGS responsible for the lies they tell, that destroy lives, we would stop seeing this kind of garbage !! In the end, my husband was removed from the birth certificate and won his case 100% ! But, he will forever be angry and bitter that when he TRIED to step up and raise this kid, the state of WA ripped that away from him !   And to blame the new wife for all this??? OH GEEZZZ !!! Are you saying men are so dumb that they will blindly go along with what ever the new wife says ? I choose to think that these men are smart and can think for themselves ! Let us not forget that the "new wife" was 100 % RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What argument now??  Place the blame where it belongs ! Squarely on the back of the woman who is now PROVEN to be a whore and a LIAR !  Believe me, if there were ANY way to sue this creep for all the money my husband wasted over 7 years, and just for the pure heartache I saw him suffer through, it would be done in a milli-second !! But, like always, men get the bad rap in this situation. Not all men are creeps ! As I am seeing more and more, it is the women who are truly disgusting !  Something needs to be done to make this fair ! It is not like men are asking to be let off the hook.......... if they are not the dad, they should be left alone ! Make the woman pay for her own kid ! It is now HER PROBLEM !!!!  Until something changes in the court system, (and by the garbage Gloria Allred was spewing out there, doesn't look too good), this will continue to go on.  With lying women and Ms. Liberal, er, Allred, there backing them up, the good folks are screwed. God help us all..............

I am on your side on everything you said and I just pray that one day the "biological" fathers have their

day in court as well as the "unbiological" fathers. 

 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

I'm outraged on what this woman has done not only to her ex-husband, but to her child. Then she's not even realizing what emotional stress that she has put on her daughter nor the stress she put on her ex. She has a smile on her face like things or so funny. I don't find nothing funny about that, because now her daughter is very disappointed with the man she thought was her father all these years when her mom knew that he was not the father. I think she should take full responsibility to what she has done to her daughter. She knew what she was doing and I really don't believe that she really care. Then she thinks it's funny that her daughter hate him and she thinks that he should still pay child support. Give credit to were credit is due and this man did own up to his responsibility until he found out he was lied too. She was a married woman who committed adultery . That's wrong and she should go after the real father. What if her daughter needed a  blood transfusion one day and with her playing the games she play she would leave the real father out cause she's thinking of her own selfish needs. I really dislike women like her. She had emotionally destroy her daughter and then she think it's OK too have her new husband adopt her. No thats wrong also cause what if it don't work out with him. He will move on with his life and she will be left ed again. She should really be ashamed. Some women have there nerve to play with men emotions and wonder why half of them change against women.

 

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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

This is ridiculous!

Now you don't have to be pro-men to realize that this is an injustice.  I can't believe that anyone would criticize this man after what he's been through.  This all started because of this woman's deception from the beginning.  Enrique never had a choice.  I think it is SOOOOOO ridiculous that he would have to continue to pay child support after finding this news out!!  It's unfortunate for the child, but that is a cross that her mother will have to bear.  It all started with the mother's lies..............  I hope Enrique fights until the end for justice. 
 
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October 29, 2007, 5:49 pm PDT

Best interest of the Girl

I am  amazed at the fact that each of these so called "adults" seem to want revenge on each other at the expense of this girl.  Both adults were terribly wrong, no excuses, no justification!! It seems to me that they are fighting over who is more wrong and have lost focus on what is really important. I am sad for the girl who had seemed to just turn off the pain to survive this terrible injustice that she has suffered.  And worse yet, she seems to be more adult then the other people involvled. Both the Mother and Enrique need to apologize to her and seek some counsel to come up with a solution to benefit her. I hope she does not define herself by this major trauma in her life and sees her value through the pain they have caused her.
 
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October 29, 2007, 5:50 pm PDT

he should not pay

I think that what the mother did is absolutely horrible.  She is the main reason why they are in this situation in the first place.  She chose to have an affair so she should be responsible for her actions.  She knew when she got pregnant that there was a chance that the baby may not be her husbands.  She had a legal, and moral obligation to tell him about that and she chose not to for whatever reason.  I don't care if she thought he would leave her, that is no excuse to not tell someone that the child may not be his.  If she would have been honest and upfront in the first place, her husband could have made a decision then whether or not he wanted to be involved in the child's life.  The mother lied to both her husband and child for 10 years and it sounds as though she is brainwashing the daughter about the reasons her dad left.  The interview that Dr. Phil had w/ Selena seemed as though Selena was speaking the words right out of her mothers mouth about the child support issue and not wanting to pay money for her anymore.  Why would her "father" be a wonderful father figure to her for 10 years and then just not want to pay child support anymore.  I believe he was hurt and unfortunately he took his pain out on the child.  I do not agree w/ what he did to Selena.  He ruined a wonderful father/daughter relationship for the inappropriate actions he took to tell his children about the situation but I believe he realizes that.  Hopefully in time they will be able to build that relationship back up.  As for him having to pay child support, that is ridiculous!  She should have to pay him back.  She lied to him!  I believe that he and Selena can have a willingful relationship together and he should not be obligated to pay her support.  The mother screwed this up.  She owes him for pain and suffering and then some!!!  She is a disgrace to all good mothers and women!!!
 
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October 29, 2007, 5:50 pm PDT

We must think of the children but be fair.

This is truly a sad case due to the pain inflicted on the child.  She should not be going through this at any level.  I believe the "father" could have done this very diffrently.  He could have confronted the mother with out the girl knowing.  However, I do agree that after so many years of acting as the father he should remain as a father figure in the girl's life afterall bonds have been created. 

 

An easy solution for for men being falsely accused of being the father is to make a DNA test mandatory for all child support or divorce cases involving children regardless of their age or even if there are no questions that the child is his.  Again, I do believe that if the child turns out to be not his and a prolonged bond has been formed then the man should be order to be a father figure to the child even if there is no financial responsibility at least until a stable home environment can be created for the child.

 
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