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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 30, 2007, 7:03 am PDT

Consider the high road for your happiness

 

I understand that what has happened to this gentlemen is unfair.  It isalso unfair to this young lady. I'm not saying it was right by any means.  But,  I'm concerned about the bantering about of 'poor me' me me . . . So, life handed you something unpleasant.  But, it also handed you something wonderful -- the heart of this young lady belonged to him - the pure love of a young girl for her father.  He had a gift above value.  Many people don't have that and die in loneliness.  I'm concerned he's fallen into the trap of throwing away something of far greater value than what money can buy.  The trap of being sort-sighted.  The money he saves will not hold him when he is a sick old man.  The love of a child is something money cannot buy.  I'm sorry he did not see that. 

 

I see that there are two options here. 

 

1.  Continue to disown the child which he probably could do and save the money.  But lose the heart of his 'heart not blood' daughter and likely also the heart of his other daughter (due to her heartbreak in this issue because of her love for her sister)

 

2. Take the high road and say - We may not be blood but we are heart  and I love you and am your dad.

 

Taking the high road is usually not the easiest choice. But, it  pays dividends in the long run that money cannot buy.

 

 

 

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:07 am PDT

Several Points

• While lying and deceit are certainly not to be condoned, I don't exactly see how the mother should have brought this up at the time of the pregnancy or birth. "By the way, honey, I've been having an affair and this may not be your child" doesn't quite seem to me a good conversation starter. I would like to know just how Dr. Phil thinks this should have been handled 13 years ago?

• I found it very disturbing that Carnell Smith countered Gloria Alred's comments about the cruelty of Enrique literally disowning Selina by saying it was all the mother's fault because she lied to her husband (and wondered why the audience applauded this). First, Enrique took his anger at his ex-wife out on the child. There is NOTHING right about that. Second, I don't quite see how two wrongs make a right. Adults should act like adults and not put their issues on kids.

• While Enrique now regrets cutting off the relationship with Selina and now wants to re-establish it, he still firmly insists that he doesn't want to pay a penny of child suppport. And while he doesn't want to pay any child support he is firmly against allowing the man who has stepped up to the plate to adopt Selina. Enrique is a big hypocrite who is still full of anger and shooting it out in all directions no m atter who gets hurt.

• Enrique's current wife is a real instigator. She should never have said a word to anyone about her suspicians. Aparantly she knows her husband well and I'm certain she knew what a tornado she was unleashing. She has caused everyone involved tremendous pain. I question her motives and wish Dr. Phil had dug deeper into that. If I were Enrique I'd drop her like a hot potato. If she really loved him she would not have done this. She's lethal.

• Finally, I am concerned about what all this emphasis on DNA says about adoptive families. Are adopted children and adoptive parents any less "real" than biological ones? DNA does not make a family. We are putting too much importance on our chromosomes and not enough on our hearts and souls.
 

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October 30, 2007, 7:08 am PDT

Important Point.

Quote From: jfabian

Anyway, I would like to elaborate, what about these dead beat dad's that "do know their own biological children," all of a sudden just threw them away.  Just like in my daughter's situation.  The father of my two beautiful grandchildren, 8 and 5 years old, doesn't want anything to do with his own children.  My daughter has never said he couldn't be around his children.  She encourages for him to be with their children, but ever since he met this other woman, she has so "much power over him". And she's very, very jealous over my daughter.  She doesn't "allow" him to see his own children.  I can't believe that he would hurt his own children like this.  Here they have a son, he's about 1 1/2 year old, but the thing is he doesn't know he's the father of this boy, he didn't even put his name on his birth certificate.  And he KNOWS this, but when my daughter had taken him to court to pay for child support, he did get an DNA test on both of his own children.  The test of course came back stating he's the father.  Which he already knew that they were his in the first place.  The reason for the DNA test, he didn't have his ID when his second child was born and he wasn't able to put his name on her birth certicate.  But, he's not going to get an DNA for the little boy.  He's financially taking care of the boy, and doesn't know if he's the father, and doesn't want to be around the children he does "KNOW"!!!!  He refuses to pay child support for his own children.  To me this so called woman (if you want to call her a woman) needs to mind her own business, and it's NOT all about her, and let him see and be with his own children like he was before and pay for his own children.  They need to get an DNA test for the little boy to find out the truth, and if he's not the father, she needs to go after the "biological father" to pay child support and let the "real father" to be in his life. 

Important Point, I meant to put this in yesterday.  The reason why my daughter's ex didn't put his name on the little boy's birth certificate, he had discussed this with my daughter, and she talked him out of putting his name on the birth certificate until he finds out if it's his son.  He's still taking care of him and doesn't know if his own son. 

 

I wish Dr. Phil would give them both a "Wake Up Call," this isn't about them, it's about the children.  He's missing out on his own beautiful children.  He's the one is going to be paying the consequences.  What goes around, will come around.

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:21 am PDT

Where is the love in all this?

Enrique was certainly victimized, as Dr. Phil pointed out two or three times during the show.  Anyone who believed he was the biological father of a child and found out ten years later he was not would be shocked and hurt.  However, his reaction to the situation, especially in light of his new spouse's input, was very self-oriented. 

 

Do we have the right to harm an innocent child at the expense of our need for justice? That's the question here.  Forget the legalese.  He was fueled by his spouse to sever the relationship with his  daughter at a tremendous cost to her.  He vented toward an absolute innocent.  He was certainly in pain, but this does not excuse inflicting pain on others at the same time.  I am saddened by this reaction.  Love is truly not self-seeking, and in this case, while some may justify his behavior, the consequences were dire.  This is how long-term curses start and continue for generations in families. 

 

We are not a millieu of molecules and DNA, but thinking, loving beings.  WIthout that love to complete the process needed for healthy growth, a human being will certainly atrophy inside.  It's too late for Enrique to "recover" his lost opportunity, though I pray he can pick up the pieces and at least try to undo some of the harm.  I hope all of us will consider this the next time we place another human being in the position of suffering damage because of how we seek justice without carefully considering the possible outcomes to others, especially children.  We need to love each other and remember that often, when we put others first in situations like this, our needs are more than met in the fullness of time. 

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:23 am PDT

lets be honest

Quote From: terrazas1

I did want to stay out of it.  As a matter of fact I didn't want to appear on the show.  I am a human trying to deal with a very difficult situtation.  I try to support my husband and in case you haven't read my earlier posts.  This is horrible for all of us.  I want Enrique to see Selina because I know they are both hurting very badly....I want the money to go to Selina NOT the mother.  I understand that they are trying to create ratings and cut a lot of things that I said so you don't get the entire story and all details.  I just want peace!  I can promiss you that!  In my earlier posts:

I am Mia the current wife.  I first want to say my heart goes out to Enrique and Selina and everyone else involved. I dont feel it is my place to tell my husband how to feel about this devastating mess.  I suggested the possibility that Selina was not his daughter only after weeks of praying and discussing the topic with my daughter.  I had my suspicions in the beginning but chose not to voice them.  It was my daughter who talked me in to discussing this with my husband.  As my very wise daughter pointed out; Selina needs to know her medical history and her ethnical background, at a minimum.  I have never participated in tearing anyones family apart.  I have compassion and pray for everyone in this situation to find some peace and yes, that includes Maria and the children.  Its my firm believe and wish that Selina should have a trust fund and any child support money should go into that fund for her to do with as she chooses when she turns 18.  Ill stand by that! 

I am not comfortable with your reply, Mia. I feel that it doesn't make any sense from a stand point of trying to do some good. All that happened was that Sabrina got hurt. In your heart, you know what the truth is and maybe you showed poor judgment. I think that if it took you a few weeks to decide what to do than maybe you must have known what the end result could be. There might have been a better way to deal with this. It was truly wrong that he was manipulated and I think being angry is a natural response, but he is angry at Selena and he is punishing her.

 

I think that your husband should repair his relationship with Selena and if I were you I would tell him that his behavior although a human response is inhuman with how he is treating his daughter. Being in a marriage means being honest with each other. If I felt that my husband was being harsh with his treatment of another human being I would tell him so, as he would do for me. That does not mean that I'm not on his side and he knows that.

 

Remember that money does not buy us happiness. The quality of life we lead does and so does how we treat each other. This issue has become about money, not about the abandonment of a young girl.

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:24 am PDT

Mother's love

Quote From: luvlylayd2003

Dear Dr. Phil

 

 

This is a subject that is very near and dear to my heart.  I am a 35 yr old divorced mother of three.  I just found out 3 years ago that my first born child is not my ex-husband biological child.  We were not married when I had her in June of 1992.  He and I met in August 27,1991 and had not started anything sexual until about 4 days after meeting.  He and I were together until he left around the first or second week in September.  I did meet someone else about 2 weeks after he left, and had one evening with this person.  My boyfriend then called me after returning back to Guam and told me he felt that I was pregnant and to get a test.  I did so and sure enough I was pregnant.  At that time I never felt that this other person was even a factor because he and I had been together so much.  This year at the end of our marriage he then asked for a paternity test of the first child.  I didn't have anything to hide so I went down and to my surprise he wasn't her father.  I can't explain to you how this has ruined my and my daughters life.  Although he still says he is her father and continues to see her.  I feel less of a person at times because of this one night.  When I found out he wasn't her father I called him and apologized trying to let him know that I wasn't being deceitful, nor trying to "trick" him in anyway.  He pays child support for her and from watching your show I truly don't know how to feel.  He has gone on with his life with someone else who at first when the paternity question was up sent the letter to my home with a kiss print on the back as if to poke fun at me.  When to me all the matters is my daughter.  She would go over to the home he shares with her and this woman would talk badly about me outwardly where my daughter could hear.  After 13 years of being her father and my husband he turned his back on us a a family.  There is much more to the story meaning I guess why he left me as he did, but truly from the bottom of my heart I never meant to hurt him.  I don't know if I should try to look for her biological father or if I should leave things as they are.  I would like for my daughter to have someone to talk to as I also feel like I let her down.

 

signed \

help!!!! mom in distress

You cheated on this man and that was wrong, but what is immoral is you accept child support from a man who had no part in creating your daughter. Yes the women he is now involved with should not talk about you to your child but you should also stop the support. I speak from expierence on this subject my usband is the victim of paternity fraud and he is being forced to support a child he did not father and his biological children are taken from to do so. This is serious and it needs to stop be a women and a mother and do the right thing drop the support.

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:27 am PDT

To Selina

Hey Selina,

 

I am so glad you got to talk to Dr Phil about all this.  Adults make mistakes and bad choices but don't let it affect who you are!  You are a intelligent, beautiful young lady.  When I was growing up the adults around me seemed oblivious to the affects their actions and choices made in my life.  I coped by staying out and away alot.  I always instinctively knew the behavior I witnessed was wrong and I vowed not to repeat their mistakes with my children.  As Dr Phil said you have 0 responsibility in all this so hold your head up girl and walk tall and proud! 

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:28 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: sparks02

In our case, the biological father is the victim.  He was sent adoption papers and a waiver of notice.  We heard nothing for 6 years and as soon as we moved away we recieved child support papers with arrearage.  We thought the child was adopted but since the judge never signed them (which we didn't know)  we are financially responsible.  The child does not even know his biological father exists and calls the other guy dad.  We do not automatically get visitation rights and we now live far away which makes it hard to see the child but we  are still financially responsible.  It is not fair that the mother isn't held responsible in any way for what she has done.

Here's a thought I got from an attorney having to do with the attorney that Dr. Phil didn't let on the platform or speak much.  Get the proof that the person the child is calling dad has the father relationship with the child and take that guy to court and make him the legal dad.  It's a thought you might do the homework on.   

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:30 am PDT

the high road

Quote From: dariusj

 

I understand that what has happened to this gentlemen is unfair.  It isalso unfair to this young lady. I'm not saying it was right by any means.  But,  I'm concerned about the bantering about of 'poor me' me me . . . So, life handed you something unpleasant.  But, it also handed you something wonderful -- the heart of this young lady belonged to him - the pure love of a young girl for her father.  He had a gift above value.  Many people don't have that and die in loneliness.  I'm concerned he's fallen into the trap of throwing away something of far greater value than what money can buy.  The trap of being sort-sighted.  The money he saves will not hold him when he is a sick old man.  The love of a child is something money cannot buy.  I'm sorry he did not see that. 

 

I see that there are two options here. 

 

1.  Continue to disown the child which he probably could do and save the money.  But lose the heart of his 'heart not blood' daughter and likely also the heart of his other daughter (due to her heartbreak in this issue because of her love for her sister)

 

2. Take the high road and say - We may not be blood but we are heart  and I love you and am your dad.

 

Taking the high road is usually not the easiest choice. But, it  pays dividends in the long run that money cannot buy.

 

 

 

It is easy for a person to judge something they do not have to live. Well my husband is a victim of paternity fraud he is forced to give 50% of his income to a women who has not worked 1 day in 33 years and his children his biological children are left with no financial support from their biological father. Yes he should stay involved with that young lady but he should not be forced to pay for her. In our case my husband has been paying for the last 15 years and the child's mother is so difficult to deal with we are unable to see the child which we and only we support.
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:31 am PDT

Very Unfair for Everyone Involved!

 First of all, let me make myself perfectly clear,  I do not think Enrique should have cut off visitation with Celina, that was a very hurtful decision, very wrong, not to mention cruel.  I would have NEVER done that.  Secondly, putting the kids in the middle of adult situations, like telling her while in the park, is definitely not the way to go.  But I truly, with all my heart, believe that men really get the crappy end of the stick in most cases. (and I am a female)  How dare Gloria Alred imply that she thinks if the non-biological father doesn't pay child support, he deserves to go to jail. Did Alred locate any of the biological fathers and attempt to obtain child support from them??!!!  That's what she needs to do and leave these unfortunate and hurt men alone!  She talks about how it's all about the money to the dads, but what about her.  I gurantee she's not opening her big mouth for FREE!  Here's a perfect example of how men get screwed,  my brother and his wife had one child, and were married 9 years.  She was caught on video, and by a legal gps tracking device, and PROVEN to have cheated with 2 men, on many different occasions.  She was arrested, and jailed 1 time for domestic violence towards my brother, she has been diagnosed as bi-polar, been on lithium and other drugs, drank alcohol during the short period that she did take her medication.  Has attempted suicide and so has the man she had the affair with, and is still with, the boy friend even admitted to the infidelity with her.  Judge Banks (Mobile AL) ruled that my brother got full custody, WHICH WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, and he gets a very small amount ($350) for child support, even though she makes only a few thousand dollars less than him, each year.  But here's the dumbest part...Judge Banks ordered my brother to pay HER alimony of $850/month with no stipulations as to when the alimony would end.  We suppose that will be when she gets married, but she has told my brother that her and her boyfriend will never get married because they are enjoying my brothers money to much to do that.  Recently they went back to court in front of the same judge, she got a promotion at work so he was asking for more child support.  Plus he wanted the alimony stopped, or atleast given an expiration date, the judge ruled no more child support and no change in alimony.  I hope I'm not the only one that thinks his judgement is crazy.  Am I biased because it involves my brother?  He literally pays her house note and her new car payment, my brother drives a vehicle that is about 20 years old. He has to pay his house note, utilities, food, daycare, has to keep her clothed, does all the housework, the yard, and still works 40 hours a week, or more.  When he has to work overtime, even though he has his family to help with the child, the X complains that he doesn't spend enough time with their child.  I hope I don't get sued for mentioning the judges name, but does anyone else think he's unconcerned with the welfare of the child?  Does anyone else think that if a wife cheats on her husband and there is proof, that she SHOULD NOT get alimony for an eternity?  And if she makes almost the same every year, as he does, and receives a promotion, Shouldn't she have to pay more child support?  If the shoe was on the other foot, he'd have to pay more.  I think Alred really knows what's right, I think that she only says what she does, for the MONEY!  Not the welfare of the children involved.  I would never hire that hag as my lawyer, I dispise dishonest people in powerful places, in any community.  Ah...it felt good to express myself...
 
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