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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 30, 2007, 8:20 am PDT

Really!!!

Quote From: DoggyMom

While lying and deceit are certainly not to be condoned, I don't exactly see how the mother should have brought this up at the time of the pregnancy or birth. "By the way, honey, I've been having an affair and this may not be your child" doesn't quite seem to me a good conversation starter. I would like to know just how Dr. Phil thinks this should have been handled 13 years ago?

I found it very disturbing that Carnell Smith countered Gloria Alred's comments about the cruelty of Enrique literally disowning Selina by saying it was all the mother's fault because she lied to her husband (and wondered why the audience applauded this). First, Enrique took his anger at his ex-wife out on the child. There is NOTHING right about that. Second, I don't quite see how two wrongs make a right. Adults should act like adults and not put their issues on kids.

While Enrique now regrets cutting off the relationship with Selina and now wants to re-establish it, he still firmly insists that he doesn't want to pay a penny of child suppport. And while he doesn't want to pay any child support he is firmly against allowing the man who has stepped up to the plate to adopt Selina. Enrique is a big hypocrite who is still full of anger and shooting it out in all directions no m atter who gets hurt.

Enrique's current wife is a real instigator. She should never have said a word to anyone about her suspicians. Aparantly she knows her husband well and I'm certain she knew what a tornado she was unleashing. She has caused everyone involved tremendous pain. I question her motives and wish Dr. Phil had dug deeper into that. If I were Enrique I'd drop her like a hot potato. If she really loved him she would not have done this. She's lethal.

Finally, I am concerned about what all this emphasis on DNA says about adoptive families. Are adopted children and adoptive parents any less "real" than biological ones? DNA does not make a family. We are putting too much importance on our chromosomes and not enough on our hearts and souls.
You say all this about his current wife put yourself in her shoes she did the right thing. Selena has every right to know her biological father and it is because of her mother's lies that she does not. Adopted children is not the issue here in an adoption you have the choice  to be a father where was Enrique's choice ? Oh thats right Maria took it away when she did not tell him about her affair!!!. Until you can walk a mile in a paternity fraud victim's shoes you will never know the torment they endure. My husband is a victim and this has had an affect on his own biological children what about them? Are you able to look my 7 year old child in the face and tell her she is not important ? We are supporting a child for the past 15 years whose mother has not worked a day in life and the only money she is supported with is 50% of my husbands earnings. In our case the child does not benefit from the child support because money is not used for him it is used for his mother. Yes DNA does not make a father but neither does money so take away that financial responsibility and let the man be a father but I can guaranty you if it was handled differently and the support was taken away from Maria through the courts Enrique would have never seen that child again at the hands of her mother
 
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October 30, 2007, 8:21 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: nousab

I am not comfortable with your reply, Mia. I feel that it doesn't make any sense from a stand point of trying to do some good. All that happened was that Sabrina got hurt. In your heart, you know what the truth is and maybe you showed poor judgment. I think that if it took you a few weeks to decide what to do than maybe you must have known what the end result could be. There might have been a better way to deal with this. It was truly wrong that he was manipulated and I think being angry is a natural response, but he is angry at Selena and he is punishing her.

 

I think that your husband should repair his relationship with Selena and if I were you I would tell him that his behavior although a human response is inhuman with how he is treating his daughter. Being in a marriage means being honest with each other. If I felt that my husband was being harsh with his treatment of another human being I would tell him so, as he would do for me. That does not mean that I'm not on his side and he knows that.

 

Remember that money does not buy us happiness. The quality of life we lead does and so does how we treat each other. This issue has become about money, not about the abandonment of a young girl.

I just wanted to write in a say a little something. First i want to say is that this situation touches home a bit for me. Very recent my mother dropped the bomb that my father was not my real father. Now my mother has caused alot of grief for our family when it concerns my father. My whole life has been that way mind you i am 26 in a loving relationship with my boyfriend and our  daughter. I was devastated. Not by the fact that the man that i grew up loving may not be my real dad, but by the way my mother went about it 26 years later. For 2 weeks we were on pins and needles waiting for results, my hurt was at the fact that there was no compassion from my mother. As far as my dad was concerned he will always remain the father in my life.Things were not easy in life but he will always be dad. At no time in the waiting of results was money an issue. Not even from my fabulous stepmother, who by the way has been struggling along with my dad to pay child support after all these years.

On the show i do feel for the Miss identified father ,but at the same time he and his wife are extremely selfish. I do not believe that they handled this in the best interest of the child. it should have never resorted to not seeing the child. She never asked for her parents. And that is the problem. Mia and her husband should not be pointing fingers the other way. they are the ones who from the beginning pushed this child away. not her mother who by the way is taking full responsibility for her wrongs. you folks on the other hand have made it very clear what the most important issue is to you. MONEY, and that is the saddest part of this all. You did not stand by her. You just made her feel unwelcome in your  heart over money. Love is what makes this world rotate. First thing first he should of had DNA a long time ago.its to late now. you should feel blessed that you have had her in your lives for this long. If you want to do anything to help her and to support this child you should have never caused her to feel terrible for something that is not , or ever has been in her control. My father would have never done that. The first thing he said to me when i told him the accusations from my mother was "O don't you worry honey you are my daughter, nothing will ever change that" . I feel so bad for this girl that Mia And her husband have been punishing her for someone Else's mistakes. They truly need to put on Selena's shoes. Now how do you feel?

 
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October 30, 2007, 8:24 am PDT

Sad situation

This situation was very sad because of all of the pain inflicted on Selina and Enrique. What is even more sad is that in Selina's mind she is blaming Enrique and not her mother for what has transpired. Selina's mother is a deceitful person who does not deserve to sit on that stage and play the role of the victim. In fact, she should be ordered to pay restitution to Enrique for his child support that he has already payed as well as for mental anguish. I hope that Selina can one day see who the villian was in this situation and redevelop a relationship with Enrique.

 

It seems like this type of situation is occuring too frequently. Laws should be in place to protect the children.......even if that means conducting paternity tests on all children born, especially to unwed mothers.

 
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October 30, 2007, 8:30 am PDT

Unfair

I am a women....I normally support Gloria Allred's causes but she looked like a complete idiot yesterday.  The mother should be sued and have to pay back any and all child support and mental anguish for this.  The little girl is who is being hurt here and the mother is mostly responsible.  The dad should have never abandoned that little girl so he too is at fault. 

That be said...  he should not "have" to pay child support but if he loves that little girl he should want to make sure she has whatever she needs, but not court ordered. 

He should resume relations with her and try to repair the damage going forward. 

What the mother did was dispicable and she should have to pay damages..

 

Just my 2 cents..

 
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October 30, 2007, 8:35 am PDT

selina, will pay more than money

    i found out at age 47 that "my father" knew i wasn't his and punhished me all my life with inuendoes and unkindness but never admitting that he believe i wasn't his.on the day he died he ended his phone conversation with me as always "i love you honey'. within a few days i was the only one of his 4 kids to be required to take a dna test. if i was his...i was included, if i was proved not.... i was excluded. well he was right. but what i lost was so much more than money. somehow  i lost my whole identity. questions about why he would have waited until after his death. how did that benefit him? was i so unworth his love that  to prove a point ,he didn't care that i had no one to ask what the true story was,that my mother  had died the year before and as a family we were still  mourning her. my brother and sister fought about he money in his will and included me in this war....but i am nobody left with much less than a money war.i would have rather been disinherated and left my sense of self. i can never know why a father would want to punish  his child[biological or not] with the purose of making a point .

 
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October 30, 2007, 8:38 am PDT

paternity fraud

 I am a victim of the same thing. When I married my 'X', I thought we were about to have a beautiful baby girl that I would be able to call my daughter and feel like there is nothing in this world that could ever touch that...Then I found out this child was conceived about 4 to 6 weeks before I was involved. This didn't come to light until I started to figure out when I was home for leave and when she was born, which didn't add up. So, in my infinite wisdom, I felt obligated and honored to remain the child's father and raise her best I could. The "donor", we'll call him, made it clear to my 'X' that he did NOT want anything to do with a baby or her at all. We tried to work through it and that became a larger issue than I ever thought it would, Divorce was inevitable.  So, was I trapped too? I think so because this woman DID know what had happened before we got together, she DID know that this man did not want anything to do with it and at that time, I was in love with her and that seemed to me, the logical thing to do and the moral thing to do. I love that child but she suddenly refuses to be in my life with me my new wife, who incidentally makes me the happiest I have ever been...which leads me to think that my 'X' has told her about her bio father. I was just dragged into the court system to get the support doubled.....9 months before she turns 18 knowing I had just started a new career and would be on the bottom of the ladder, so to speak. We have been financially devastated at this point because she did this to me.
I agree Enrique did this all wrong but NOT for the wrong reasons....it would have made more sense and a lot easier on the daughter to leave her out of it and go through the court system between him and his X wife. SHE is the one who needs to be punished, not his daughter.
 
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October 30, 2007, 8:45 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: sgtgrandma

 I was going to write my own message but after reading yours I didn't have to. Your message is the only one that expresses exactly how I feel. Your message speaks truth. It is about human kindness and the only time I saw that was when Dr. Phil was talking to Salina in private. This is about the child!  (And I truly doubt that anyone could really see what Enrique's new honey was really doing.) Your message was the only one I could find on this message board on this subject that spoke the truth in in matter. What does Dr. Phil teach us??? You either get it or you don't...I truly wonder how many really "get it" that this program was about the pain and suffering a beautiful child went through because of human selfishness. It's not about the money!!  It's about doing the right thing at the right time in the right place.
My heart went out to that beautiful child. I cannot imagine how anyone on this board can justify what Enrique did. You are right, about the majority of the posters on this board not getting it. Most of them still think it's just about the money. The loss of this child's innocence is just collaterall damage I guess.
 
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October 30, 2007, 8:47 am PDT

Mother at fault

After watching the Dr. Phil show last night I felt compeled to write this.  Because I worok for a child Support Agency this is an issue that is dealth with often.  This man would have no way of knowing that he was actually not the biological father of the child unless he had suspision in the beginning.  Because this couple was married the child is considered a legal child of the marriage but not the biological child.  We have had numerous situations in which this has occurred and we have to get all the parties'  involved tested.    It never ceases to amaze me that some of these women name upwards of 8 men that could be the possible father of a child.  It is a horrible situation for everyone involved.  The mother should have been truthful in the beginning.  It is like Dr. Phil said " Lady, You started this whole Damn Mess".  I think that there could have been a better way of the child finding out that Enrique was not her biological father but what's done is done and he can't take that back.  He should not have to pay child support for the child that is not  his and he should file a civil suit against the mother for the money that he has paid.  the Biological father of the child should be ordered to pay support.
 
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October 30, 2007, 8:47 am PDT

A bad situation for everyone

Good topic! This is an emotional topic for all involved with no good outcome for anyone.
I am a victim of paternity fraud. After having two kids with the ex, we split up. When she needed money, after her visitation she kept one kid (the one that was not mine) and sued for support. Even though we each had one kid, the state did not reunite the kids, but awarded her a high level of support! Whose best interest was that judgment in? Not the children! The fact that I had raised both children for many years, DNA proved that one was not mine, and all other previous facts did not enter into the decision. Only that I had income and she had a kid with my name on the birth certificate is all that mattered. I cannot even visit the kid she ran off with,
States force men into a bad situation caused by the wife (mother). Assume the following scenario: A pregnancy occurs with a married couple. Once the child is born the time limit for action starts. If he has any doubt at all about the paternity of the child, he must get a DNA test, usually before the child turns two years old. Many very difficult questions are considered: 1. Does he confront his wife with his concerns? That alone undermines trust. 2. What does he do if the child is not his? Break up the family? What about the other kids? Most states now allow that he would not have to pay support for the non-bio kid, but the divorce would scar all the kids. 3. Does he stay anyway – reminded every day that the wife he trusted was unfaithful, and may be unfaithful again?
Many people have said that Enrique should sue Maria for fraud.  I am also a victim of paternity fraud and have looked into this. Each state is different, but the common thread is that in most states paternity fraud is not legally considered actionable fraud. Even where it is the legal system is set up where the burden of proof is very high. Even if a judgment is granted, the fraud would be from criminal court, and family court decides child support and custody. A different judge could set aside the criminal judgment “in the best interest of the child”, because paying the award would unduly burden the mother and decrease the standard of living of the child. He could contest custody, but there is no guarantee that the family court judge would consider the conviction for paternity fraud.
Another consideration is the different collection tools available for fraud versus child support. A judgment for fraud has the normal tools, such as liens against property, possible garnishment of wages, etc. Child support enforcement can garnish wages, suspend drivers, business, and professional licenses, revoke passports, force sale of assets, and include jail time. Support enforcement is also much stronger across state lines. Laws for support enforcement are much stronger than visitation enforcement.
One thing that has not been brought out yet is that child support is an industry – a moneymaker for states. They receive matching federal funds for each dollar of child support collected. That is why they go after the low hanging fruit – the presumed father whether he is the cuckolded husband or domestic partner, rather than the sperm donor.

 
 
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October 30, 2007, 8:54 am PDT

Honesty

I don't feel that a person should be held responsible for child support of a child that is determined not to be his. No matter if they find out a day or 10 years after that child is born. They don't even have the responsibility of being a emotional support for that child. It would be a great testament to a man's character if they said I still want to be a part of your life even if your not my biological child but they should not be obligated by law. Its a injustice. Almost like someone stealing your credit card and running up the bill and they prove it was not you who ran the bill up but you still have to pay back that 50,000 dollars because your name is on the credit card. It is not fair to the man nor is it fair to the child. The mother  should be held responsible and  made to pay back the money that was given to her under fraudulent circumstances. If she was proven to have done it maliciously. In some cases, it is truly a case of thinking that that man is the father. For the few women who do it just to trap a guy or to get revenge or just do it knowing that that man is not the father but he is a lot better than the real dirt bag who is so I'll just let him think he is, they should be fined, sued or even jailed. 
 
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