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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 31, 2007, 2:51 pm PDT

it is not right

I am 24 years old. the same situation happend to me, an i mean the same situation.  My girlfriend, my ex, and a four year old child involved. i was paying childsupport, i had my license suspended, and the next step was JAIL, just because i was taking care of a child that was not mine. The guy does not have to pay childsupport for SOMEONE ELES CHILD..it is not fair. Women today are greedy, liars and they move around like snakes. So for all the guy out there, if you have a child just ask for that DNA, they do it right there and then when the child is born. Also because of what my ex did, i decided now if i still want the child in my life, i still choose to but in my own terms. it is either that or BYE BYE I told her. I DONT REALLY CARE. A woman can make man go that distance. i really understand how far that man in the show went to stop child support.. i would have done the same thing too. Do they think we pick the money from the tree.

 
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October 31, 2007, 2:52 pm PDT

What a win-win solution!

Quote From: lighthouseguy

I realized after posting my previous message that some might wonder what I would do since I noted my intense anger towards all of the adults in this situation.  I won't pretend to give a clearcut answer as I have never been in this situation and can only guess what I would do  based upon my personality and  moral convictions.  I would like to believe that I would do the following:

1) I would continue paying the support and, if the law allows, with specific payments made for the child's direct well-being and not leave it up to the already unreliable and dishonest mom.  If that can't be arranged, I'd probably pay regardless.  My thinking is this. . . If I had already raised this child as my own for so long, I have NOTHING to gain by cutting myself off from her and EVERYTHING to lose.  Not paying child support for a child that is not "biologically" mine could never offset the emotional hurt I would inflict on an innocent child by pushing her aside and invalidating my relationship with her.  I, personally, could just never do that to a child.  I see nothing to be gained there other than breaking the heart and spirit of a child in order be "right" and save money.  Neither reason holds much weight to me when compared to the damage it would have on a child to just walk away.

2) I do believe it is necessary for the truth to come out.  I don't believe in living a life of lies.  It isn't a question of not letting the mother "get away" with something and it wouldn't be a question of me just feeling better with the truth out in the open even though I have to admit that I, would personally need that, it is more about the child knowing the truth.  Children have rights to in all this and every child has a right to know who his or her father REALLY is and who had played the role in the absence of the real one.

There are all sorts of appropriate ways to reveal that truth.  Throwing it out on a trip to the park and then dumping the kid at home later is probably not the path I would take or the path I would recommend to anyone.  I think under the guidance of a professional counselor, or family minister, or by the parents who come to an agreement on the safest, kindest and most effective way to reveal this ugly truth the child will benefit in the end even though the initial blow will be very hard.  I very firmly believe that love does conquer all and that even this kind of ugly truth can have benefits it is revealed with love and support for the child.   In fact, it can be the basis for the healing process for all concerned and it might even strengthen the family bonds.  I know that I would probably be thrilled that a man not really my father thought enough to raise me as his own and continue to love and support me in spite of the ugly truth that I was the result of an affair.

It is important to note that this can also be done without demonizing the mother in this situation.  I grant you that I would probably hate this woman for doing what she did, but I would fight like all hell to not hurt the child because of that.  The problem in this case is that the mother has been effectively let off the hook here and took NO responsibility here whatsoever which lead to so much unnecessary anger for which her children suffered greatly.  I would expect her to own up to what she did and the reality is is that her children can benefit and learn from her mistake.  It is not about brow beating her and being right.  Our children can sometimes learn best from when we adults mess up, but we HAVE to own up to our mistakes for that to happen.  I saw little movement this way by the mother, Maria, in this story who took the most elongated path to admitting to the affair, but then wants everyone to believe that she couldn't imagine she got pregnant form it.  Is it really so hard to own up to a stupid action?  It's not like the truth isn't out already.

Well, this is just my view of things and I'm willing to certainly admit that this is how I would LIKE to handle the situation.  I'm well aware that the extreme hurt involved in all this can easily blind anyone to the best path to choose.  All I can say is focus on what is best for the kids and leave personal agendas out of it.


As a school counselor I need to tell you that you are the type of parent who makes the difference.  Children grow up fast.  They are in our lives way past the time we pay child support. By continuing as parent to a child with whom you have bonded, both you as parent and the child gain life-long benefits, and one day that child's love will equal far more than any of the child support and emotional problems that occurred during the growing years.  I have much admiration for your view-point.
 
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October 31, 2007, 2:58 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: fromthesquare

It is good that you won't date a man with children.  We never asked my mother or father to put us first or second.  We knew that they loved us and in spite of their divorce they were always there for us.  The woman that my father dated enjoyed our company as well.  She did not discard us as "out with the old and in with the new!"

 

I am 45 and my father is dead.  I am not a child.  I have 5 children of my own. They are our priority. 

You ARE your father's child and THAT is what I meant.  I don't care how old you are. 

 

Children grow up and move away, your spouse is sopposed to be your companion not your kids.

 

Men with kids are used and always have way too many issues.  I was involved with one and did my charity work...it's not worh it.

 

Enrique's got his head on straight...He's listening to his WIFE.  Good man.

 

Mia and Enrique, if you're reading this...Don't bother with what some of these bean brains say, you follow your hearts and stick together...you'll be fine, you're successful and smart people, don't worry.

 
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October 31, 2007, 3:02 pm PDT

This Man is NO Father

 I just watched this show (thanks TiVo!) and while I am not usually compelled to go on to these message boards, this subject had me reeling.  There is no doubt this man was betrayed by his then-wife.  First with the affair, than with the lie that lasted for 10 years.

But what about the so-called father?  I have never been so disgusted with someone before.  This idea that who you can love is only dictated by biology is ridiculous.  I can sympathize with the shock, anger and sadness he must have gone through upon finding out his wife had lied and his daughter was not, in actuality, his.  But what I can't sympathize with was his incredibly rash decision to tell his two very young children exactly what happened and then callously throw Selena away without a second thought.  He may argue that it was much more difficult than that, but I would venture to guess that is exactly how it felt to poor Selena. 

Why didn't he, upon finding out this information, deal directly with his ex-wife?  Perhaps he shouldn't owe child support - perhaps he should contest that in court.  But why couldn't he continue his relationship with her and deal with the money issue away from Selena and with his ex-wife in a court of law?  He said he regrets to the core of his being the fact that he abandoned this girl.  But he's had three years to change that bad decision and he hasn't.  How much regret is in that?  What would ever compel a person to sign away their rights to a child they have loved as their own for 10 years?

I wish Dr. Phil had spent more time on those issues and less on the money aspect.  I would agree that this man should not be held financially responsible, because if there has to be a cut off somewhere legally, it seems a biological line would be the most black and white.  If a man marries a woman with a newborn and raises that child for 10 years and then they divorce, is he legally entitlted to pay child support?  No.  So I am not saying this man should be forced to pay money.  But from watching the show it seemed only two options were really highlighted - either full support in terms of time, relationship AND money, or nothing.  And the audience seemed to suffer from multiple personalities - clapping at everything argument.

So my point is that money aside, this man failed tremendously as a father and as a human being.  You love someone because of who they are and the relationship you share.  Not because you share DNA.  Shame on you for making an emotional issue a monetary one.  In the end, it is YOU who has lost out, and no amount of money in your savings account is going to change that.
 
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October 31, 2007, 3:06 pm PDT

Thank you!

Quote From: christab

Actually, Mia is scoring LOTS of "new wife points"  with HER husband.  He likes it AND he likes her and her BALLS. Who are you to say what he should do?

 

Who cares wether MIA is a mother or not???  What does that have to do with ANYTHING??  And you know what, YES...she is a mother...she is a STEP mother!!!  I am willing to bet that in her role she is doing a better job by her husbands daughter AND Selina than their BIO mom EVER could!!!  Mia is an HONEST person...YOU CANT SAY THE SAME FOR MARIA NOW CAN YOU!!!!

 

Why shouldn't Mia stand up for her husband???  They are a TEAM.

 

Mia, I am proud of you for taking a stand and not letting Enrique's crazy ex-wife bully you into taking a back seat regarding things that have to do with YOUR husband and therefore YOUR life. ;)

I really appreciate your posts!

Best to you and yours!
Mia
 
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October 31, 2007, 3:12 pm PDT

Mandatory DNA - think about it....

Any father who is listed on the birth certificate should have to have a DNA done to prove it (read further). For the responsible Dads it would be done at the time of birth and would not be an inconvenience. Who is who's child is way to important to trust with a female especially if she has no reason to tell the truth. In the current scenario we will NEVER work towards honesty as there will never be an incentive to. The stat was that 30% of those cases that were suspisious and got DNA testing were found not to be the legit fathers.

 

Whats wrong with factoring in a little accoutabiity for the mothers while protecting the fathers. If the mothers hold 99% of the control what is wrong with putting the accountability there. If the female has so many partners that she does not know who the father is then I guess she will have to advise all for testing or choose not to list a father. I can gaurantee that if was the males who had the control there would be an uproar. For those who argue it would cost to much....the volume and accessibility in mandatory DNA would bring the costs down and there would be savings in legal proceedings

 
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October 31, 2007, 3:25 pm PDT

furthermore

Quote From: cyn3100

The money goes to offset some of the expenses the mother is paying for the child. She is paying for everything! The father's support is supposed to help pay for the child's portion of the rent, power, transportation, and general care. If they lived as a family, the father would be paying much more that the avarage child support order. This support isn't just for diapers and baby food! If the child support is supposed to free up some of the mother's money. If she uses that money to do something for herself, GREAT!

I checked to see what your reply was to my latest. you know the more I re-read your message, the more mad I get. You s.tate "she is paying for everything!" She is paying for nothing! Every time we pick up the child, his cloths are dirty and ratty. They have holes in the them and they are too small. She doesn't work, but drinks and smokes and then calls us to complain that she doesn't have enough money. Last year his son told us she didn't buy him anything for Chrsitmas, but she bought a new car. As far as paying for the "childs portion of the rent, transportation, and general care" she would have to pay rent rather he exsisted or not. We are the ones who take him everywhere. Extra activities, doctor appointments, dentist appointments, school field trips, etc. She does nothing for him or with him. She is more interested in herself than she is ANY of her kids. He is being taught that all he has to do in life is hold out his hand and someone else will take care of him. Besides the fact that she doesn't provide for him financially, she isn' teaching him any morals or work ethic or anything else. Her husband and her sit at home everyday and wait for our check to come in their mailbox. That's not providing for her child. if she used our money to buy him things and she really tried to provide for her kids I wouldn't have as much to complain about. My husband is just another example of someone who does everything he is suppose to and still gets screwed by the system.

 

 
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October 31, 2007, 3:52 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: whatever1234

I cannot believe the socialist views of Gloria Allred. It is not the responsibility of anyone who is not the father or parent of a child to be forced to pay child support. Mr. Carnell Smith was correct in that he shouldn't be obligated to pay.Given what I saw of this man of integrity, I'm sure that his relationship with his 'assumed' daughter would not end because of the test results. In fact, he should be given custody and receive child support from both the mother and the real father.

There needs to be harsher penalties for such criminal acts to incite the correct behaviour of these women who are in affect stealing from these men. Jail time would make these women think twice. Bottomline our society is turning into a bunch of whining socialists who want something for nothing. I believe that citizens of the US should be required to travel overseas to see why we are so lucky. Those people who whine, can leave the US. There is a difference between charity and government programs.

You're exactly right. Her views are outrageous and radical.
 
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October 31, 2007, 4:09 pm PDT

Dr. Phil should invite Judge Judy next time!

Quote From: bpessink

I watched this show twice!  I was so struck with anger when lawyer Gloria Allred stated that Maria simply made a mistake at the time she wrote Enrique down as the father but had absolutely NO forgiveness for Enrique's admitted mistake and regret for telling Selena in a devestating manner that he was not her biological father.  My anger was magnified when she stated the mothers mistake is not the crime, the real crime is the fathers who do not pay child support and force the mothers of their children to be on welfare!!!  OH!  I am so angry!  The REAL crime with regard to child support in this country is the LAW!!  It is so easily manipulated by angry, bitter money hungry ex wives!  That is the real crime.  My husband has never missed a visitation or child support payment until he lost his job of ten years.  He is an incredible father who would do anything for his son and would never have a DNA test (even though this has been a concern) because his son is HIS no matter what DNA says!  Gloria is right when she talks about the finger pointing not being helpful!  But she was finger wagging when she said it.  All of the grown ups need to get up over their own hurt feelings and decide if they really love Selena the way the say they do.  Because if they do, Mom should not care about support and Dad should not care about paying it!!!  UGH!!!  It frustrates me so much!  My ex husband and I have four children.  He is court ordered to pay much more than I am getting.  But it benefits my kids far more for him to see them than for him to be imprisoned and the kids visit him in jail!!  Plus if he were in jail...I get no financial support!  I would never put my children through the things that my current husband's ex is putting my step son through!  I would never put my ex or his wife through what we are going through.

It is a growing problem that women hold the upper hand in the court room!!!

I say all this as a mother, a women, an ex and a wife!!

I am still so ANGRY!!!

They should have left Gloria home and brought in Judge Judy instead.  

 

*Someone* ought to throw the book at her!

 
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October 31, 2007, 4:26 pm PDT

I am reading and thanks, again!

Quote From: christab

You ARE your father's child and THAT is what I meant.  I don't care how old you are. 

 

Children grow up and move away, your spouse is sopposed to be your companion not your kids.

 

Men with kids are used and always have way too many issues.  I was involved with one and did my charity work...it's not worh it.

 

Enrique's got his head on straight...He's listening to his WIFE.  Good man.

 

Mia and Enrique, if you're reading this...Don't bother with what some of these bean brains say, you follow your hearts and stick together...you'll be fine, you're successful and smart people, don't worry.

There are some very interesting posts on this board! It looks like the only thing everyone can agree on is our point of view on Gloria! I don't think I've read one positve reaction to her appearance....
 
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