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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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November 1, 2007, 10:33 am PDT

I agree!

Quote From: anhonestwmomen

Yes!!! This is a must in today's society! To the Mia bashers and everyone else; dna might cost money but it will help prevent situations like this one. Mia did what was in the best interest of her spouse. This situation must be horrendous for her too. She should be proud to stand up for this injustice! You can tell what a slim Maria is and she needs to be taken down. Why should Mia cover up someone else's lie??? This gross sorry excuse for a women have been getting away with this for years. Thank God someone has the courage to be on National TV as an advocate for this injustice.

I totally agree, hospital bills are high anyway, what's a few more dollars and it would stop all this confusion! Plus it may even stop so much cheated if you knew you could be caught at the birth of the child!

 
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November 1, 2007, 10:36 am PDT

Gloria Allred made me see red!

I was blown away that a man not a biological father would be held responsible for child support, but I was truly blown away that Gloria, supposedly such a wonderful attorney, would come on the show and not answer a question directly and go on and on about the "children".  She sounded more like a politician than someone truly concerned with the issue.  I don't think Enrique should have to pay child support, he was duped!  And I think Maria should be sued for fraud.  I do feel sorry for the child.  How awful to find out your mother is/was unfaithful and a liar and the man you thought of as your father wasn't your father, but hopefully she'll be able to put things into perspective and have a good life.
 
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November 1, 2007, 10:46 am PDT

REPEATED INFIDELITY - FEMALE AND MALE

If you are with in a relationship with someone, you expect the relationship to grow and deepen over time; you expect a heart connection to be made and maintained.  You operate your life based on this expectation.  When your partner in the relationship does not or cannot make an emotional connection, the relationship becomes very painful.  Some of my favorite books that provide a great introduction and insight into personality types most capable of repeated infidelity are:

 

 

Emotional Blackmail:  When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward AND Why is it Always About You?  The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism by Sandy Hotchkiss

  

Get Me Out of Here:  My Recovery From Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland OR Girl Interrupted by Susanna Kaysen OR The Angry Heart: Overcoming Borderline and Addictive Disorders by Joseph Santoro and Ronald Cohen

 

Malignant Self Love:  Narcissism Revisited by Sam Vaknin MAYBE The Professional Bachelors Dating Guide:  How to Exploit Her Inner Psycho by Dr Brett Tate

 

Emotional Unavailability by Bryn Collins OR Healthy Boundaries Workbook: Using Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills to Set and Maintain Better Boundaries by Deborah Deiboldt Legge

 

Stop Walking on Eggshells by Paul Mason and Randi Kreger OR Overcoming Passive-Aggression by Tim Murphy and Loriann Oberlin

 

Healing Anxiety and Depression (7 types of anxiety and depression) by Daniel Amen and Lisa Routh OR Getting Help:  The Complete and Authoritative Guide to Self-Assessment and Treatment of Mental Health Problems by Jeffrey Wood

 

How to Journal for Therapy:

http://arar.essortment.com/therapyjournali_repu.htm

 

 

There are relationships, marriages and families that are so destructive the only option is for a person to get out.  Get out with the little bit of sanity you may have remaining.  Make a promise to yourself to leave.  Leave so you can begin a life of healing and recovery.  Leave so you can learn to live a joyful, peaceful, trusting and fulfilling life.

 

Hope it helps!

 

 
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November 1, 2007, 10:48 am PDT

What about the Selina

I am discusted with the way Enrique handled the situation. He never took Selinas' feelings into place. Also Enrique had no right to tell Selina in a park that he was not the real father, and then stop visitations. And because he did that who is he to say he is against her adoption???? Mia should have minded her own business. It sounded like she was just trying to cause a lot of trouble for a young child. I hope she never has children of her own!

 
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November 1, 2007, 10:49 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: anhonestwmomen

Yes!!! This is a must in today's society! To the Mia bashers and everyone else; dna might cost money but it will help prevent situations like this one. Mia did what was in the best interest of her spouse. This situation must be horrendous for her too. She should be proud to stand up for this injustice! You can tell what a slim Maria is and she needs to be taken down. Why should Mia cover up someone else's lie??? This gross sorry excuse for a women have been getting away with this for years. Thank God someone has the courage to be on National TV as an advocate for this injustice.
 And, how many other, equally sorry, women have been getting away with the same sort of thing?
Maria knew, before Selina was even born, that the other man, obviously darker skinned than  Enrique, could be the father. Why else,  before  Selina was even  born,  would Maria start  "preparing"  Enrique for a child that might not "look" like him? To cover her butt, I'll bet.
And, child support? It's often all about the money. That some  mothers spend mostly on themselves. And, very little on the child.
As denying Enrique visitation, but insisting on full child support, maybe Maria knew that, as Selina grew up, she's start looking more like her biological father. And, less like Enrique. 
And, while Mia, looking at family pictures, spotted the physical differences between the two sisters and Enrique, she left  everything, including DNA testing and continuing, or stopping, child support, up to him.
 
 
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November 1, 2007, 10:51 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: ladypat26

You feel sorry for Enrique!!!!!  That poor excuse of a man has just  beat the everloving you know what out of an innocent childs heart and you feel sorry for him??????? Wait until he finds out for the second time he has married another lying defrauder, then you can feel sorry for him again.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for the child too. I feel sorry for Enrique because he was lied to for 10 years about the child. You don't know how a man feels to find something out like this. And regardless, NO man should ever have to pay support on a child that is not their's, unless they knew what they were getting into to begin with, without being tricked or frauded.

Do you not think this child has the right to know her biological father? Do you not think the biological father has a right to know his child?? Do you not think Maria robbed both the child and bio dad of a relationship?? What about what Maria did to both of them, along with Enrique?

Where do you get that Mia is another lying defrauder? Seems to me, she is the only one who was honest about anything with him!

 
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November 1, 2007, 10:56 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: kimberlykee

First of all - I am ALL FOR putting the needs of the child first, but unless and until you have seen a good man CRUSHED by the news that his child is not, in fact, his child, you really need to zip it.

 

I watched a man get shut out of his child's life for years.  Everytime he wanted a visitation, he was a bad guy who hadn't earned the right to see his daughter.  He was accused of neglect and abandonment, abuse, and even rape - all things he would be incapable of. Only when he had money to send was he allowed to see his little girl - only he had to travel to another state in the hopes that he could buy a meal for his daughter and her mother, he got a lousy 45 minutes with them during which time the mother dominated the conversation.  This went on for 8 years - until I met him.

 

At first I thought - "leave it alone, his relationship with his ex is his business..." but after a while, it drove me nuts that she defined "fatherhood" as nothing more than a paycheck, and I not only pushed him to get an attorney, but also indicated that this might be a dealbreaker.  I needed him to step-up and be more than a bank account for his daughter.

 

You all want to know why he never did anything about it sooner?  Because for years this woman beat him down to a place where he couldn't fight back.  She threatened parental alienation, once even telling him that she would make sure he never saw that child again.  His parents had not seen their granddaughter for about 8 years -- but gifts and money were always accepted.

 

The first thing required by the court when seeking a shared parenting plan is DNA.  He had no doubt that this little girl was his - even I said she looked like him.  The day of our court hearing is when we heard the results - NOT the father.  He called the child's mother that morning to inform her of the test results and ask her if she felt compelled to offer an explanation - no response.  And while waiting for our hearing, she walks in with her husband, father, father's friends - an entire entourage - walks in front of us and says to her husband "let's go honey, something stinks in here."  Yep - she engages in 10 years of intentional paternity fraud, steals 10 years of a GOOD man's life, and then walks her smug little self into court and insults US?!?!?

 

What is wrong with poeple?

 

And like I started this message - unless and until you have been in the room with a man who has experienced a phone call like that, you cannot even begin to get your head around the trauma.  Is the girl on the show traumatized as well?  Of course - but blame her MOTHER for creating a situation that caused her father to have an emotional, knee-jerk reaction like he did.  She should rot in prison - THAT would be in the best interests of a child who has been used and manipulated.

 

As far as I'm concerned, women who use their children for this reason are no different than pimps who are prostituting their children for a big payday.  My boyfriend's ex got away with this for 10 years, over $100,000 was paid to her, and in all those years, he was never allowed one single unsupervised visitation.  We believe her entire family was in on the scam.  We also believe that the child calls mutliple men "daddy" and that this is how she makes her living.  We are attempting to sue her for fraud, but the fact is that the laws are not in our favor.  Even if we win, its unlikely we'll ever see a dime.

 

I have never posted on a message board like this, but the show's handling of paternity fraud disappoints me.  As a man and a father, I would have expected Dr. Phil to have shown more compassion to the men who have to get this kind of news.

 

As for me, being a woman and a mother, I am disappointed at how much attention is placed on the deadbeat dads, and how little is placed on those who are good men trying to do the right thing.  As a society, we make it almost impossible for them to do so.

You are exactly right. These people have obviously never seen what it does to a man. These people don't stop to think of the woman doing this:

"You all want to know why he never did anything about it sooner?  Because for years this woman beat him down to a place where he couldn't fight back.  She threatened parental alienation, once even telling him that she would make sure he never saw that child again.  His parents had not seen their granddaughter for about 8 years -- but gifts and money were always accepted."

I guess that's all okay for the mothers to do this, huh?

I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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November 1, 2007, 10:58 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: tdale4321

We have a fit when men don't pay their child support, but we don't feel the same when a woman lies to a man and steals child support from him. The reason why she didn't tell Enrique about the affair and the child that wasn't his is b/c he is a doctor and the biological father probably doesn't make as much as him, so she probably wouldn't have gotten as much child support!

 

I am a woman and I think that if a woman collects child support from a man that isn't the father, then she should be made to pay him back! It is not his fault that he believed and trusted his mate! The biological father should be made to pay only from the time he learns that he is the father. He shouldn't have to go back and pay for a child that he didn't know existed! He didn't get to be a part of the childs life all that time.

 

Furthermore, something has to be done. A man can go to jail for not paying child support, a person that didn't commit a crime can get out of jail because of the results of DNA testing, but a man that have been cheated on can't get out of  a18 year sentence, after being lied to, decieved, hurt and made a fool out of!

 

This was the topic of our Monday morning talk before school and for the first time 100% of the teachers in the conversation agreed! (over 75 teachers) And we never totally agree on anything!

 

IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM FAIR!

 Throughout the show, I was thinking the same things.
And, I suspect, as you do, that Selina's father probably doesn't make near the money that Enrique does. So, she chose the "richer"  man's name to put on the birth certificate.
Too, while Maria might have simply been cheating on Enrique, many other women have  "shopped" for a good "source" of  "child support" by having sex with mumerous men at the same time, until they get pregnant. And, "claim" the "richest" man as their child's "father"
 
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November 1, 2007, 11:02 am PDT

CRUELTY - MANIPULATIONS - HATRED - RAGE - REVENGE

Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a psychological disorder characterized by pervasive instability in moods, interpersonal relationships, self-image, and behavior.  This instability often disrupts family and work life, long-term planning, and the individual's sense of self-identity. 

 

While less known than schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness), BPD is more common, affecting 2% of adults (1-33), mostly females.  Some of my favorite books that provide a great introduction and insight are:

 

 

High Conflict People in Legal Disputes by Bill Eddy OR Divorce Poison:  Protecting the Parent-Child Bond from a Vindictive Ex

 

Emotional Blackmail:  When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward AND Why is it Always About You?  The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism by Sandy Hotchkiss

 

Get Me Out of Here:  My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland OR Girl Interrupted by Susanna Kaysen OR Stop Walking on Eggshells:  Taking Your Life Back...by Paul Mason and Randi Kreger OR The Angry Heart: Overcoming Borderline and Addictive Disorders by Joseph Santoro and Ronald Cohen

 

Understanding the Borderline (Parent) Mother:  Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson OR Surviving a Borderline Parent:  How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries and Self-Esteem by Kimberlee Roth and Freda Friedman

 

Healing Anxiety and Depression (7 types of anxiety and depression) by Daniel Amen and Lisa Routh OR Getting Help:  The Complete and Authoritative Guide to Self-Assessment and Treatment of Mental Health Problems by Jeffrey Wood

 

How to Journal for Therapy:

http://arar.essortment.com/therapyjournali_repu.htm 

 

 

Some of the story is typical:  early family conflicts, abusive relationships, feelings of insecurity contributing to destructive behaviors such as resentment, rage attacks, revenge, manipulations, promiscuity, addictions, self-abuse, and eating disorders.  The extreme behaviors of BPD constitute the high drama in the stories of those who endure its ravages.

 

Though harder to spot, emotional abuse is easier to deny.  But just as physical and sexual abuse have signposts to mark their presence, emotional abuse, being a systematic attack on one's sense of self, has common traits.  Just as physical and sexual abuse come in degrees of severity, emotional abuse runs the gamut of intensity and damage.  

 

 

Hope it helps!

 

 

 
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November 1, 2007, 11:13 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: butterflybaby

I am discusted with the way Enrique handled the situation. He never took Selinas' feelings into place. Also Enrique had no right to tell Selina in a park that he was not the real father, and then stop visitations. And because he did that who is he to say he is against her adoption???? Mia should have minded her own business. It sounded like she was just trying to cause a lot of trouble for a young child. I hope she never has children of her own!

That was  pretty stupid of Enrique. But, this situation, that he did mishandle, never would've arisen, had Maria  been honest enough to leave  his name  off  Selina's birth certificate.  Maria got pregant by cheating on Enrique. She should've put the other man's name on the birth certificate. Epecially after Selina was born looking so unlike Enrique. Or, left that section blank. Another  stupid move on Enrique's part. Not suspecting that something wasn't right when Marie "warned" him, during the pregancy, that Selina might look like someone else. On her side of the family? With darker skin? And, darker, curilier hair? What a crock! Before Selina was even born, Maria knew she might not  "look" like Enrique? No way! Unless she was cheating on him. With a darker skinned man.
 
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