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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 29, 2007, 4:02 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: w2ngmz

Dr.Phil:

 

I applaud your courage in bringing the controversial issue of paternity fraud to the public. It is a crime that has many victims, the duped father, the child whose life is completely changed, the siblings of that child, and the malevolent mother who continues to line her pockets as a result of lies and deceit.

 

I am a victim of paternity fraud in two ways, at age 53 I found out that I was adopted by my grandparents, that my sister is my real mother and I have no idea who my father is. Before that however, I became the 2nd wife of a man who thought he had 3 children. It turned out that he was the victim of paternity fraud and the youngest child is not his biological child. Like Enrique and Maria they divorced and he became responsible for child support. And the youngest child looked like my husband. In fact we had been featured in an issue of Mens Journal magazine and when the reporter asked to see some family pictures I saw a picture of my husbands former best friend, the man who fathered the youngest child born of his marriage, and asked him David, when were you that heavy? My husband David replied that the picture was of Jerry and his wife Sybil on the beach. So looks do not always reveal a childs parentage.

 

Maria knew all along that there was another candidate for biological father sand paved the way to have Enrique accept the child as his and to not ask questions. The damage that Maria has done to this child is not even at the tip of the iceberg. What happens if the child eventually gives birth to a child with a genetic defect that does not run in her family, such as happened to Morgan

Wise who found out that 3 of the 4 children he believed were his  were not because they were afflicted with a genetic disease for which he did not carry the recessive gene. Or when the child turns 50 and all the aches and pains and illnesses such as heart disease, high cholesterol or others start happening and the child had no medical knowledge of her fathers background.

 

Marriage and support of children is a contract and no contract is enforceable if done by fraud. Maria defrauded Enrique so he has no responsibility to the child once he is divorced. He has acted In Parentis Locus during the marriage and provided support. That is all that is required, he is nothing more than a stepfather.

 

And if as Maria states, it is all about Enrique having to pay child support then why is he not disputing it for the child that is his biological child. I assume the older girl is his, there was no mention of a DNA test.  The fact that Enrique has an MD came out at the end of the show, and it is the perfect case of father shopping. Enrique could offer more financial stability then the man Maria was cheating  with, so she took the logical decision, stayed with the man that had more money and lied to him

 

As far as Enrique telling the child that he is not the biological daughter it is obvious that in 10 years plus the year that Maria was carrying the child was not enough time for Maria to reveal the truth.

Who would have told the child who deserves and has every right to know the truth about her biological heritage? In my husband, David Ziskinds case  he confronted his ex-wife with the truth and she denied it, but told his two older children that your father is saying  that your little sister is not his to get out of paying child support. If my husband wanted to get out of paying child support, why would he not say all three children are not his? His older daughter called him up and said that if you do not tell Natalie we will. So he told her over the phone because once Sybil Hart knew that her ex-husband was aware of the truth she ran to Texas from Miami with the children. In fact the children had less then a weeks notice that they were moving. We only found out when Allison, the oldest child called her father crying that Mommy was moving them in two days. When David told the youngest child he was put in jail for contempt of court, but we got his conviction overturned. All the information can be found at http://florida.paternityfraud.com or through Carnell Smiths web link.

 

As for Enrique no longer seeing the child that was not his he had no other choice if he did not want to be held legally responsible for her. Once he knew the truth he could no longer act as her father. If he did the law would be that he accepted the truth and continued to act as her father. He would never be able to be freed from the legal responsibility if he maintained a relationship.

 

Mia, the second wife was demonized unfairly. She and Enrique may want to have their own children, and yet the money would go to the children of his first marriage before the children of the second marriage would receive a fair and equal amount of parental support. The child support system creates and elite class of children and a secondary class, those of the 2nd marriage whose children are always the last to be considered. Isnt it amazing that Mia and Enrique would be more responsible for a child that has no blood relation to either of them over their own blood children? Such is the mess that the child support system has created.

 

Dr.Phil, I have worked extensively with Carnell Smith and while he has been able to be liberated from the family court system, we have not.  My husband and I will be paying child support because of this fraud well into our retirement years. The Courts do not look upon the duped dad as a victim, the women is always the victim, even if she appears before the court with unclean hands.

 

As far as Gloria Allred and her famous cases, you conveniently forgot to mention that Amber Frey way a paternity fraud perpetrator. She lied about who fathered her child and victimized an innocent man. That alone should put her testimony in the murder case in question.

 

The way to solve this problem so that it no longer happens is to have a DNA test at birth, or at the very least, upon filing a divorce or child custody case. We no longer rely on English Common Law for most of our legal system. Why in the face of science do we not get rid of the law based upon the women being married to convey legality of the child? if DNA can get a man out of jail for rape or off death row why are men forced to pay child support when they are not the father?

 

If Gloria Allred wants women to be equal before the law and on the legal playing field, then why does she say that it is all right for women to profit through lies and deceit?

 

Marias new husband Chris should be careful. If Maria committed fraud once she will do it again. And if Maria is really concerned with the best interests of her child rather than lining her pockets with illegally gotten gain then she would make sure to find the childs biological father and make him step up to the plate, as the saying goes. But Maria does not have her childrens best interests at heart, she is merely crying crocodile tears and playing the victim. She is the victimizer and she needs to be punished.

 

Nadine G.Mendelsohn-Ziskind

Florida Citiens Against Paternity Fraud

Wow. I agree with everything except that Amber's testimony should be scrutinized in the murder trial, suspect possibly but not dismissed. Peterson was guilty!!! PS was the "fraud" case prosecuted?
 
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October 29, 2007, 4:02 pm PDT

The child

Quote From: okeldy519

As the mother of two sons and grandmother to two boys, it breaks my heart to see that a woman can lie to her husband and still he is expected to carry the burden for that lie. I do understand that the children are the ones who are hurt, but why is the mother not responsible for her actions. A man should be able to trust his own wife. Everyone is being so hard on the father, can they not see he reacted out of his own hurt. He is not the one who lied to this girl His wife lied to her own child for many years, she is the only one who knew the truth.

Shouldn't our sons have rights? This is the reason so many women continue to do this. They have nothing to lose.

 

 

I have two sons as well.  I would be upset if one of them were to abandon a child who they raised as their own regardless of the mother's intentions.  The mother lied yes, was deceitful, yes but is it the child's fault, no.    The wife had the affair which is wrong and sinful and created the mess, she will get payback one day.  Her daughter in future will look back on everything and I'm sure will lose respect for her mother to some point.   

I believe the child deserves the support of the only daddy she has ever known and this being the daughter he thought of as his own for all these years. 

Child support should be worked out so that the child gets what she needs, 50% from him, 50% from mom.  Another idea is to put the money in trust till the girl reaches the age of 21.  This might be the better solution.

Regardless, it's the child who is the important one here.

 
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October 29, 2007, 4:03 pm PDT

This show pissed me off

As a single mom of 2 girls I can not stress enough how this show pissed me off.  These kind of women that trap men into paying child support for kids that aren't theirs make the rest of us women look terrible. No man should be put in that situation. EVER!!!! I don't understand why this is okay and why we should turn the other cheek and make them continue to pay child support for a child that isn't theirs. That is just ludicrous.
 
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October 29, 2007, 4:03 pm PDT

Father's Rights

Quote From: archladydi

Women have the right to ask for DNA to prove who fathered the child so why can't a man request the same procedure?  No one should be expected to pay child support for a child that is not theirs.  I also think the mother should be held legally responsible if she knows the child is not her husbands/boyfriends and lies to the courts about it.  It is about time that the rights of the mother and father be equal and that we throw out this anitquated theory favoring women in divorce.  I feel sorry for the child who finds out that his father really isn't his father and that his mother has been lying to him/her.  People do not realize the damage they do to children with their selfish acts.  If we insist that the man pay child support for a child that is not his we are giving the real father a free pass on his responsibilities and telling the mother what she did was acceptable. 

Men can request a DNA test. What we were told by the court system in Iowa, however, was that if the biological mother doesn't want to have the test done, there's nothing the man can do, without a court order. That was several years ago and that info may not have been correct. They don't like to hear from the fathers, is my feeling.

I want to make a point about Gloria Allred's comment at the end of the show. She made a comment about dads who don't want to pay support when court ordered. What about the moms who refuse to pay court ordered child support? My husband has custody of his 2 boys from his previous marriage. She's only court ordered $200/mo (2 kids!!!) and won't pay. When Child Support Recovery catches up to her and threatens to take away her driver's license or do community service (ooh, that gets my step-sons their support!), she gets a minimum wage job and works long enough to get them off her back then quits or gets herself fired. Then it's this reason or that why she can't work. Now it's another reason. Tough. She laid down and created these boys, be responsible! He's forced to allow her visitation, even though it's not good for the boys (long, long and terribly sad story); but the courts refuse to see the damage she's done. But she doesn't have to support them?! She's over $10,000 behind! We live paycheck to paycheck, but too much to qualify for state aid and that's why the state won't help us get the money. If we were on the welfare system, they'd go after her - like they did my husband when she had custody and he was $750 behind. The court threatened him with prison time for $750 and she's $10,000 behind. Yep, that's fair.

Look to the heart, in the matter of the father who's not the father. If they truly love that child, it shouldn't matter if it's biologically their's or not. You support them because you love them. Does a piece of paper really change the heart? If it does, that's sad. They're children. It's not their fault the mother lied. Love them. I support my step-sons. Actually, other than to explain the facts, I don't call them my step-sons. They're every bit as much my sons as the 3 I gave birth to.

 
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October 29, 2007, 4:03 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: izgifted1

Gloria Allred proved herself to be both ignorant of the issue, and incapable of empathy.  I am 8 months seperated from my wife of 7years, and I'm not sure my youngest is mine, nor do I want to know.  However, should I choose at anytime to have the paternity of my son tested, if I'm not the father, I shouldn't be expected to maintain finacial responsibility.  In my case, no matter what he will always be my son, and I'll support him, but that shouldn't be expected of someone.
well  i  agree with you on staying is dad  but i think that the money that you have to give her should go to a seperate account where she cant touch it at all. It is for the children not for the mothers  they should be responsible to suport the children.....that money should be for the chidren when they get adult to help them  because many women gets pregnant and takes man for a ride    not fair  to the chidren
 
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October 29, 2007, 4:03 pm PDT

Parent Fraud

HOW SAD THAT IN TODAY'S MODERN DAY AND TIMES PEOPLE SIT ON THEIR BRAINS.  BOTH INDIVIDUALS ARE AT FAULT. WHAT I FIND MOST AMAZING IS THAT WHILE ENRIQUE HAS LEFT A MARK ON THIS LITTLE GIRL BY TELLING HER THE TRUTH  HAS COST HIM DEARLY AS HE NOW KNOWS  A GRAVE INJUSTICE MAY ALSO HAVE GONE TO THE WAYSIDE BY NOT INFORMING THE REAL FATHER.  IN ADDITION, I AM NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD TELL THE CHILD THAT HER MOTHER LIED FROM THE GET GO BUT SHE IS THE CAUSE TO A GREAT DEGREE OF THIS ENTIRE SITUATION.

 THIS LITTLE GIRL WILL GROW UP AND FIND OUT THAT IF HER MOTHER HAD ACCEPTED OWNERSHIP OF HONESTY THEN MAYBE NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE OCCURRED. A REAL WOMAN WOULD HAVE HANDLED THE ENTIRE SITUATION IF NOT EARLY ON IN HER MARRIAGE CERTAINLY BEFORE THE CHILD FOUND OUT  WHICH IN MOST CASES AS ONE CAN SEE IT WAS INEVITABLE. I SINCERELY HOPE THE BEST FOR ALL CONCERNED AND I DO WATCH YOU SHOW DR. PHIL AND LEARN A LOT.  

 

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October 29, 2007, 4:04 pm PDT

REPOSTING: The Solution

Quote From: vicksin1

The older I get the more wisdom I find in idioms.  The one I find appropriate for this situation is the sins of the father/mother will be visited upon the head of the child.  Its more than apparent that both of these people hold responsibility for the pain, disillusionment, betrayal, and future issues this child will endure.  Is one more responsible than the other?  Does it really matter?  I could sit here and argue one point or the other, if I wanted to but I dont, and it would make no difference because the damage is done.  The cat is out of the bag, genie is out of the bottle, etc.  Its a done deal.  What concerns me is that it continues being done here as well as in many other similar situations that havent found the good fortune of Dr. Phil intervening on the childs behalf.  So instead of adding my bat to beating these people up over what already cannot be undone Ill instead send my most sincere hopes and wishes that better judgment will now rule and that life can be mended to all their benefit.

What I came for is propose a solution that seemed glaringly apparent to me.  It wont correct the current occurrences of like events but it can curtail it for future generations.  First of all a birth certificate is a legal and binding document so Im amazed that this hasnt become common practice before now.  Why a person can simply be named on a legal binding document without proof of that persons party to paternity is simply legally irresponsible on all sorts of levels.  At any rate my solution is to add paternity testing to the standard testing that they do on any infant when it is born.  Problem solved.  Perhaps such a solution might have further benefits of being a deterrent to behavior that would so negatively effect so many others outside themselves for so long after the fact.  Accountability what a concept!  For those who oppose this solution one would have to question their motivation and wonder if there may not be some duplicitous reasoning that would cause such opposition.  Its easy to rant over a problem, everyone does it.  Better to just resolve it and get on to the next issue.  Theres always going to be plenty more waiting in line

I’m reposting this because I feel its an important idea and one that shouldn’t be lost amongst so many pages of an understandably active and tumultuous board.

 
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October 29, 2007, 4:04 pm PDT

CHILD TRAP

   The whole argument is pointless!  You can't force someone to be a good father no more then you can force them to be a decent human being.  Take he's money, take he's freedom, if he doesn't want to be a father, he's only going to blame the child for forcing him to be.  Is that in the best intrest of the child???  The child is the only one that's "trapped"!  - between two selfish people.  It reminded me of a quote from "Parenthood"  when  Todd(Keanu Reeves) says, "you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming a--hole be a father." 
 
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October 29, 2007, 4:04 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: cdcmta98

I firmly believe that what Enrique did was morally wrong. But I also believe that he SHOULD NOT be held financially responsible for a child that is not his. If Enrique and Selina want to continue an emotional bond and relationship thats fabulous. But to make a man pay financially for a child that the mother knew all along possibly could not be his is JUST WRONG. If I could in anyway make a change in the system to reflect the fathers in this country who continue to be wronged I would do it. And the comment that Ms. Gloria made that the real problem in this country is all the "unpaid" child support not the problem that Enrique was facing is sickening to hear. Yes the numbers and statistics are hugely different, the problems are still there. And I dont think its fair. Something needs to be done. And be done quickly. Before this continues to get worse. And more woman think that they can get "over" on a man AND the system.
I agree.
 
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October 29, 2007, 4:04 pm PDT

They are both wrong

I think that the mother is wrong because it was her choice to have an affair and not tell her husband that the child may not be his.  But he can't just leave the child like it doesn't matter.  Whether or not she is biologically his child or not he spent 10 years with her.  I do agree that he should not have to pay child support, but he shouldn't have abandoned her.  The mother should be sued or something because what she did was wrong.
 
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