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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm

Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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nana7grandkidz

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October 29, 2007, 5:40 pm PDT

My Parent Trap opinion

I think the woman should of told the husband as soon as possible when she found out she was pregnant!! She is a liar and she committed adultrey. The husband should of NEVER told the daughter in the park, He should of told her at the house with her mother present--In fact, the mother should of told the daughter what she did then the husband should of told her (the daughter)!! He isn't a man if he walks away after all these years...The child's best interest is what matters, not the money or anything else. He was only looking after his own interest.....BOOOOOO on him!!! BOOOOOO on her also!!! Poor child!!

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noonmurl

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October 29, 2007, 5:40 pm PDT

Let's be real

First off, the mother was dishonest. There wasn't much on the show about how she was really the one responsible because of her actions. Only a small blurb was said. Yes the father raised that girl for 10 years, but the only reason why he did was because he believed he was the father due to the mother's lies and infidelity. How come Dr. Phil didn't focus more on what she did and how she caused all this mess. Because of her lies to the husband and the children, the father shouldn't pay child support, only the biological father should after tracking him down. Yes the children were hurt, and no, the father shouldn't have approached the children in the manner that he did. As far as gloria goes (yes, it's in lower case for a reason), she should have herself checked at the door. Yes, she was right about real father neglecting their responsibilities, but if I go by what she said, then why does the father in this case have any responsibilities. She thinks then this man should be punished for something when he did nothing wrong. If I had a chance to say something to this family, it would be this:

Shame on you mom for what you have done and what you have caused.

Shame on you dad for what you have done and how you approached it all.

Little girl, you seem to be wonderful, but don't think that your mother is blameless in this. See her for who she really is.

Step father, I applaud you for all you have done, but watch out. She cheated on a man that she said she loved once, she might do it to you too.

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cyn3100

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October 29, 2007, 5:41 pm PDT

What?!!!

Quote From: ncdad54

The women of the world know that they can trick men into getting them pregnant so they can have a decade of easy money. There is an epidemic in this country of women coming from other countries to marry American men, have a child and then divorce and on to the next man. Wash, rince, repeat into financial secuirty.

With VAWA and the domestic violence laws in America, men are now nothing more than wild game for women. They know how profitable it is to have children in America. With the advent of Title IVD programs and VAWA, the government encourages divorce and custody battles.

Just read Dr Stephen Baskerville's latest book "Taken Into Custody" and you will see how the American Bar Association built the Divorce Industry for their profits and the destruction of American Families.

1. Single men or men having more than one "relationship" are responsible for protecting THEMSELVES against pregnancy.

2. Maybe you could try marrying an American woman. Mail order brides can be tricky you know.

The "Mother" was dead wrong, but let's not fall into misogyny!

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madmax

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October 29, 2007, 5:41 pm PDT

get real

Quote From: tanyali

I am so surprised that all of the messages that I've read so far are about the adults w/ Selina on the side....didn't anyone listen? Or don't you understand yet that life is not fair, that sometimes you just have to deal with an injustice to yourself and put someone else first. It's a lesson that kids learn early on, or should, that sometimes things just aren't fair. Ok the mother lied, it's done. NOTHING can change that it sucks. It seems to me that Enrique and his new and obviously immature wife, and that crazy other guy with his mouth running off, need to get past the fact that they aren't going to get their money back, and they can't punish the mother now. There won't be justice for them, at least in that regard. Now on top of Selina's mother messing things up early on they've made the whole problem worse and look worst than her now. They perpetrated a crime against the child, much worse than the lie to the adult. So they need to move on. Better to have stood up and done the right thing by the child, "turn the other cheek" for the sake of the childs heart. Damage has been done to this child that is forever. As for that guy who is running around freaking out that he had to pay support for a kid who's not his...well, I think whether he's right or wrong, each case is individual and can't be generalized. He's bitter, angry, I categorize him with Tom Lykas, (the worlds biggest pig), he's rude, and if he really had justice and dignity in mind he'd at least let other people have their say. A prince never has to say they're a prince....let alone get in my face and demand I acknowledge it. ;)

you didnt listen!

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terrbin

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October 29, 2007, 5:41 pm PDT

Think with your brains, people. At this point, it is NOT about what's most fair for the dad, but what is in the best interest of the CHILD!

What the mom did was wrong, obviously (and I wish that there was a punishment we could dole out to women who do this that wouldn't hurt their children). Enrique was deceived, also obvious... What doesn't seem to be so obvious to many here is that the child DOES belong to Enrique. What I mean by this is that biology doesn't play a role in the relationship/feeling between parent and child, NOR SHOULD IT. If I learned today that my child was not mine (whether through deception or a hospital error) it wouldn't change my love for my child, nor my desire to continue providing the best I can financially. Money IS important in that it sends a message (a strong one) to the child about whether you treasure them or your money more. I would want my child to know that regardless of whose they were biologically, that I would and will always consider them MINE. And I'd make sure to reinforce this by providing for them financially! I wouldn't allow for any question at all to permeate my kid's thoughts about where my loyalties are!

Enrique got screwed, but that in no way changes (or rather, shouldn't have changed) the fact that he has been her father! Where are his feelings for her???? (His daughter is very bright to have heard his sudden and renewed interest in her with skepticism!) How could he have treated someone he raised from infancy, and supposedly loved, that way???? I wouldn't wish that kind of treatment on my worst enemy. The feelings of abandonment this poor girl must feel, I can't imagine. She may not realize this now, but I have no doubt that those feelings of abandonment and mistrust will affect her future relationships because they will affect how she feels about herself. I pray she gets the help she needs as she grows to realize exactly what Dr. Phil said -- that she is worthy of love regardless of what that pseudo-father did to her.

Frankly, I don't know how some people here can justify anything but a continuation of a fatherly relationship, and that includes a FINANCIAL one. NOT because this is "fair" to him, but because (more importantly) it is what is "fair" and right for HIS DAUGHTER. And again, he should want to. If I were him, I wouldn't care about seeking out the biological father so as to pay for my kid's expenses. I would want nothing to do with him in fact, so as not to ruin the stability I would hope to continue to provide, (until my child wanted to seek him out, that is. It's only natural that kids want to know who they biologically came from at some point in their lives). My kid is mine. Period. I WOULDN"T ALLOW ANYTHING TO CHANGE THAT. THAT"S WHAT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, ENRIQUE...

Finally, I imagine that several conditions must have existed for Enrique to be so cruel to the daughter he raised for ten years: 1) that he didn't really love her and 2) that he hated his wife so much for deceiving him that he preferred torturing his daughter in this way so as to punish the mother, (rather than seeing his daughter as the gift she is). Bottom line is that I would likely have divorced my wife and FOUGHT to keep my daughter(s)! As for the poor daughter, I can't believe that now that she has another loving father in her life, Enrique decides that he wants and misses her.... REALLY?!? I t took you YEARS to realize this, Enrique?!? What a prince you are... You took the only father she had away from her (you), and now you don't want to give her a decent chance at a life with another man who DOES want to be her father and sees her as the blessing she is. Something YOU couldn't do. You've proven yourself completely unworthy of her. Your "judgement" isn't the only thing that is bad.... YOU are!

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cindygirl1968

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October 29, 2007, 5:41 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

I can not believe a woman can actually steal her childs identity from them, charge for the assumed right to do so and then blame the father when it all unravels. Thats what this selfish girl has done. She lied, slept around, got pregnant, even on the show she said her ex husband wasnt smart enough to figure things out so it is his new wife who is to blame for him finding out about her lie. The daughter needed to know about

the lie she was told since birth, maybe in a better way,but what are you people all saying..since he found out they should have both kept the lie going? That lying bitch doesnt deserve anymore child support for that child ....i cant believe that court would make him conitinue to pay for something thats was obtained by fraud. I'm sure his ex wife is a bitch as most are....she laughs all the way to the bank each month for sure. That lawyer, what a joke!! That book, wont buy it. The court should make her pay it all back!! The real dad,oh yeah lets chase him....afterall that snid woman robbed him of his parental right as well....oh yeah so now make him pay 10 years back.....give her more, give it to her with interest...poor mother..ummm might be out on the other street where normal working folk live...she might need a JOB. ...... since her money ticket found out. This all makes me sick! she should be put in jail...she caused this mess, and yet she gets to just walk away....and yeah maybe it is all about the money, if the courts werent so lop sided, women focused and were more fair money wouldnt be an issue....its ok for a man to live in his car....but the woman has to take no responsablity financially....sick sick sick I say!!

What are the reasons child support was ever set up uh???? YOU made the CHILD so you pay for the chid.....end result he didnt make this child...he shoud be paid back and allowed to continue the relationship on HIS and the girls terms and that lying woman should go to jail!!....i'd be charged if I stole someones identy such as credit cards right.....well this is even bigger than that...fry her.

And btw, i am a woman!!

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stepmomto1

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October 29, 2007, 5:42 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: yesyoucan

Honesty is the best policy... I pray healing y'all's ways from Maria's lie for all, including her, and especially for Selina and her sister. My first thought is Emotional and Life Skill Education K-12 DAILY classes of age appropriate topics since parents cannot teach what they have not learned... To avoid THE CYCLE of dishonesty and inappropriate behavior etc. To teach consequences and responsibility for choices. Life is like economics: CHOICE. Enough bad choices can lead to personal emotional and/or financial bankruptcy; often with far reaching implications involving others and society as a whole.

That's why fornication even is considered a mistake in the Bible because the natural consequence of sex, less artificial means, are children and if not a good time for a child's arrival can cause a world of harm to child. The fourth R needed in schools is respect for self and others "and" for people to learn that sex is REPRODUCTION and not something to toy with in fornication or adultery or even if married IF child won't be received with smiles all around. Sex IS NOT first and foremost benign ENTERTAINMENT... sex is REPRODUCTION first and foremost. REPRODUCTION has been transformed into entertainment not by nature and by people playing around with nature. Sigmund Freud said suppressed emotions can lead to frantic desires. I believe since often times men and women don't grow up learning how to just hug, or be friends, that they both don't know what to deal with feelings for one another. Again, why we need Emotional and Life Skill Education DAILY classes K-12 because everyone needs to get real that we need to develop our EQ as much as our IQ. Having children is not a right per se'; having children is a responsibility and a privilege earned being responsible.

Enrique mentioned Maria breaking two of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Everybody gets their scriptures in a twist over THE TEN COMMANDMENTS' THOU SHALT NOTS so in New Testament it was simplified in GOLDEN RULE "To do unto others as you'd have others do unto you," Matthew 7:12. As a natural consequence of practicing THE GOLDEN RULE you'd then likely obey THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. The Bible is considered the BOOK OF TRUTH that has been held up in courts of law for persons to promise to TELL THE TRUTH. As Enrique said, there are two commandments Maria's adulterous affair broke, second being lying about Selina being his daughter. This is why those commandments are there because of the immense damage that can ensue when one or two or more or all are, or any, are broken. The reason for divorce is most times rooted in dishonesty on some level at its core. Divorce is considered not an ideal situation, as a rule, because of the fallout on children such as predators exploiting children of divorce etc.

Selina IS, of course, the one hurt most by Maria's lie. Yet, "Honesty IS the best policy," John 4:24. I believe that Maria should have told Enrique and the judge that the child support for Selina isn't required for him to still see his younger daughter. Maria stepping up to the plate of honesty might have resulted in Enrique not feeling exploited by Maria. However, learning that Enrique is a doctor I think he should have known to seek counseling for himself and his daughters on how to approach both his youngest and older daughter about Maria's lie. However, people are not perfect, and to white wash over Maria's inappropriate conduct that led to all this is not the answer either and Dr. Phil acknowledged Maria began all this yet said, too, that children come before money.

So, is honesty the best policy for immigrating and remaining in USA? Is honesty the best policy when filling out a birth certificate? Is honesty the best policy to tell a ten year old about WHY her dad is devastated and going through a grieving process of his own so might not be acting like himself? YES. Maybe not explicit details yet, "Selina, I lied to your dad about something very important and it is because of my lie that your father isn't acting like himself." I think the BIGGER message everyone needs to grasp from all of this is HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. A pastor of a church recently said, "For forgiveness there must be repentance." Which brings us full circle to Matthew 6:9-15 and Dr. Phil's Life Law #9. Maria and Enrique went from defensive to both being remorseful for pain caused to Selina. The money that both Maria and Selina say matters most to Enrique I think their actions are saying matter more to them than Enrique. However, I think Selina is basing her worth on child support since her mother is.

I applaud Carnell Smith's "Man4Justice" and feel that he held his own with Gloria Allred who seems to be projecting her aggravation for dead beat biological dads onto Enrique and Carnell Smith. I think the person who should step up to the plate, financially, for Selina is the biological dad. I don't think Enrique feeling he's not responsible financially means he doesn't love Selina and it just is what it IS. A VERY bad situation that Maria put herself, Enrique, their oldest daughter and Selina into leading to a grieving process for all concerned. People don't always act rationally when grieving whether an adult or a child so major decisions are discouraged during first six months of a shocking event. Enrique isn't Selina's biological dad through no fault of either Selina or him.

Dr. Phil talks with the importance of forgiveness in Life Law #9. Mistakes with true remorse we are asked to forgive as we ask God to forgive us, in Matthew 6:9-15 and Yom Kippur and Shia Day of Atonement etc. And, also, God says to leave vengeance to God when person who hurt us isn't remorseful or when their remorse doesn't seem to be enough to heal. Time will heal the best it can. Un-forgiveness erodes a person's peace of mind.

Yet, even after forgiveness, it is the biological dad who is responsible financially for Selina that I feel both Maria and Selina should pursue for child support in the future and for biological dad to repay Enrique as well. Otherwise, it will always be a sore spot with Selina caught in the middle through no fault of her's or Enrique's. Enrique and men are entitled to their feelings, too. Maria and Selina DO deserve child support yet not from Enrique. I believe forgery on government documents like birth certificates can be as much as a $10,000 fine with possibility of imprisonment too since a federal offense, figuratively and literally. Maria proved she wasn't perfect. Enrique proved he wasn't perfect in how he handled knowledge of learning of Maria's mistakes. And, guess what, none of us are perfect and we all make our own personalized mistakes.

Unless, and until, people no longer skate by after being dishonest we ARE teaching children "dishonesty is the best policy" and everyone should look the other way. NO! Dishonesty IS NOT the best policy and "honesty is still the best policy" for men and women. I think shame "and" accountability serves a purpose to deter persons from repeating detrimental behavior "and" deter others who see dire consequences of others being dishonest... So the cycle of "dishonesty is the best policy" and looking the other way ends. Rationalizing is just that rationalizing. Selina is a beautiful young lady and the positive of all this and only responsible for her actions not her parents. Yet, nonetheless, for better or worse, Selina is dealing with the fallout of Maria's lie which is why we come to full circle "honesty is the best policy". Honestly, REPRODUCTION is not ENTERTAINMENT or something to be toyed with because beautiful children, like Selina, need and deserve a loving, stable home, where "honesty is the best policy" from day one between parents. Emotional and Life Skill Education K-12 DAILY classes need to be in schools to teach children what their parents have not learned to end detrimental cycles of behavior and poor choice making. Because an EQ is as important as an IQ. And common sense is becoming less and less common all the time. Common sense says to not have sex with someone else while still married then lie on birth certificate who the father is... SEX isn't entertainment it is reproduction with unborn innocent lives at stake!!! Life is for keeps and there are rarely oopsies and overs and that is why our lives depend on using common sense and making choices, we'd want to autograph, to last a life time. A good rule of thumb is: If you'd be embarrassed for anyone else to know...don't do it as you will have to live through it. Often the innocent have to live through it too...

Mia, I am sorry that you are in this situation. I am a wife to a husband that was previously married and the ex-wife has done A LOT of things, but mostly using the child between them as a pawn in her games. I don't agree with how things were handled on your husband's part with confronting Selina, but I do understand how you can do things that you normally wouldn't and not use your best judgment when you have been pushed to the limits as you have with Selina's mother and her lies. I can only hope that one day our courts decide that it is not always the father's "fault" and that sometimes there are issues with the biological mothers. We've got to get away from the thoughts that "she is the mom" and she can do no wrong. Good luck!

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missdavies

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October 29, 2007, 5:42 pm PDT

30% of fathers cuckholded...

Quote From: cristo

I was shocked at the sample statistic that 30% of 'fathers' have been cuckolded without their knowledge. While I'm skeptical of this statistic, it does seem that this type of behaviour happens to a lot more folks than the losers that show up on Maury Povich. If the problem is really this widespread, it sounds like there should be mandatory DNA testing to prevent millions of these kinds of irreconcilable conflicts which will just be inflicted on the children.

In this case, I was really put off by the smirking mother - she's completely responsible for the whole horrid mess and has NOTHING to smile about. Enrique, despite justified anger, made a horrible decision to take it out on the 'daughter' he raised and loved, and has hurt and alienated her. It's ugly.

I'm sure what i'll say will be controversial :-)

A woman has the sole right to choose to carry pregnancy to term, regardless of what the biological father may want - and I agree with that right. The flip side is that an expecting father should have the right to know if the child is really his. In an ideal world, the expecting mother would have the fetus paternity-tested before the deadline for getting an abortion, and if the paternity is false, the expecting 'father' would have the right to choose whether or not to accept responsibility for the child which is not his - irrevocably and legally-binding, including child support if the relationship doesn't work out. At least that way, this kind of mess can be resolved before the child is born, either by the false father signing up for the responsibility regardless, or the mother ending the pregnancy, or the mother making a conscious decision to take on the responsibility of going after the biological father or raising the child on her own.

That's 30% of paternity tests performed - not 30% of births.

Think about it - 100% of those paternity tests were likely performed because there was a question. Given that, 30% is actually quite low.

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captiancrunch

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October 29, 2007, 5:42 pm PDT

Go find your babies Daddy !

I feel that it's unfair for a cheating wife, who mostlikely knew the baby was not her husband's child, to expect her x- husband to pay child support. The law giving a man two years to determin if a child is his or not needs to change. If you have no reason to suspect your wife of cheating on you, why would you suspect that the child is not yours.It's just not fair, it's simply ludacris ! Gloria needs to get a grip on reality, because the child is not the only one hurt. The father is hurt as well. I admit he could have made a better decision on how to tell his daughter that he was not her father and to cut all ties with her. But I sensed genuine remorse for his actions. I am praying for their relationship, May the Lord bless them all.

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donaldnyathi

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October 29, 2007, 5:42 pm PDT

STICK TO THIS !! STOP RELATING TO OTHER STORIES

Quote From: dcolywa

I have to say that I am very surprised and sad at the number of people who were so judgmental about the mother and sided with the husband and felt he shouldn't have to pay child support. He isn't the first husband to be cuckolded and he won't be the last. The issue is the welfare and well-being of the child.

Twenty-seven years ago I worked for the Clerk of Courts in a county Family Court. I vividly remember two divorce cases where the father had found out a child born during his marriage was not his. One man didn't feel he should have to pay child support but at that time in Ohio (don't know if it has changed since then), if a child was conceived or born during a marriage, the ex-husband had a financial obligation to support the child until the child reached the age of 18, whether or not the child was his. Legally, he was the father and his name was on the birth certificate. Needless the say, the guy was very upset and swore he would never pay his ex-wife a cent. He was bent on punishing his wife at the expense of a small child. I asked a lawyer I knew why this was the law because it really didn't seem quite fair to me even though I felt bad for the kid. "Well", he told me, "the state has to protect the child. If the husband who was the "legal father" didn't have to pay child support, chances were the state would have to provide financial assistance to the mother in the way of public assistance (welfare), and/or food stamps, lunch programs, etc. The taxpayers would have to pick up the tab. Better to have the legal father pay than the state. The child would be better off this way also."

In the other divorce case, the husband had bonded with the child before finding out he wasn't the father, but he loved the child and was willing to pay child support as long as he had visitation rights. He wanted to be a part of raising this child because he knew that he was the only father the child knew and didn't even want his son to know he wasn't the father (the biological father was out of the picture). I was totally in awe of this honorable man and wish that more men could be like him. I'm sure he was blessed with a beautiful relationship with his son over time that was worth a lot more than the money he had to pay for child support.

look you didnt even mention anything about the welfare and well being of this child. You just gave examples. STOP RELATING STORIES !!! I THINK EVERYONE HAS THE CHILD'S WELL-BEING IN MIND. We are just discussing the adult part of the problem !! Read the "POSSIBLE SOLUTION " message and lets see what you have to say about that. I am about solving problems!!!

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