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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 30, 2007, 7:40 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: sensible1

ref the 2nd wife:  no---she doesn't get to keep the support money.  he still has to pay it--that's part of the irony (and injustice).   the person who profits most (but not forever) is the mother.  also, the birth father profits because he is the richer financially since he has not had to pay child support for his child.  so, the second wife doesn't profit financially; besides by now her husband may resent her for his looking weak by her admitting that he listens to her, and that she brought this whiole thing up (which I feel she had a right to bring up)...
 I agree what the mother did was awful.  And, yes I misspoke when I said Mia gets the money.  I missed the fact that the dad is still having to pay.  So what good did it do for the second wife to even open this can of worms??? Who profits? And, Enrique should resent her for her making him look so weak.  That is exactly how he came across.
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:43 pm PDT

Shameful

I do understand that men in this country are tired of being falsely accused -- and until recent years had no way to prove their innocence; however, what Enrique did to Selena is completely shameful.  If someone told me that my kids had been switched at birth and were not biologically mine it wouldn't matter. That fact would not change my love for them and woe to the person who tried to take them from me!!!  Just ask any parents who have adopted and I'm sure they'll tell you that DNA doesn't factor in how you love your children.  Legally I guess he shouldn't be forced to pay child support, but SHAME ON HIM FOR NOT BEGGING TO BE ALLOWED TO!
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:44 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: sensible1

ref the 2nd wife:  no---she doesn't get to keep the support money.  he still has to pay it--that's part of the irony (and injustice).   the person who profits most (but not forever) is the mother.  also, the birth father profits because he is the richer financially since he has not had to pay child support for his child.  so, the second wife doesn't profit financially; besides by now her husband may resent her for his looking weak by her admitting that he listens to her, and that she brought this whiole thing up (which I feel she had a right to bring up)...

This is all about money?

The lil girl is human and has been now for 13 years.

The bio-parent /sperm donor of this young girl is LONG gone or the affair would have lasted.

The child and her father who has known her since  her conception believing she was his  raised her, than abandoned her at age 10.

That was RUTHLESS , worse than anyone or thing can do to a child.

The parents /ADULTS should have handled this immediatly in a court of law . Child protective services would have been called in to evaluate the child first

 and than tell both those "adults" to back off with their information.

 

In most states the Parent will be treated like an adoptive father. Would you treat this child badly if she had been adopted, is the judges theory.

 

The mother would be fined , heavily and NOT RECIEVE ONE DIME, penny or anything that would benefit the mother one bit.

The father would put all the funds into an acct for the child for her college  and he would get counseling to deal with this ASAP.

He and his biological daughter and his daughter who he has known since day one need help.

 

NO, the new "daddy" would not be allowed to adopt the child, because that is un-stable  as is every last thing in that womans life.

 

I also suggest that the new wife stay away from both daughters as she is interested in one only "Herself"

 

Money should never be presented as an option or fight regarding children. The only interest here are the children*

 

 

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:45 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: firstlady10

Irregardless of who did what. Both of these parents dropped the ball on being responsible "adults". She for not being an honorable woman, and he for making it all about him, and not that beautiful child he called his. I know how it feels to be abandoned by my father, biological father. As my father made his divorce all about him, leaving 4 young children to flounder and find their way. He went on his lovely way and created a whole new family and never gave his children his love or his support. I only hope that this lovely child will be able to overcome the unbelievable pain of rejection! Don't kid yourself and think it will be a sure thing, as I struggle everyday with low self esteem, and my siblings are bitter, angry and alcohol soaked lonely adults. And it has been 36 years since my parents divorce. Dr. Phil says it all when he says "you write on the slate of who your children are" I wish my father had been adult enough to be a dad! And shame on the new "Mrs" for making it an issue to begin with. When are "adults" going to learn to put the children's feelings first in these matters?  Thanks Dr. Phil for giving me a voice! Firstlady10

The new "Mrs" didn't make an issue of it....she simply suggested a DNA test.....BIG DEAL.

Once again, Enrique had every right to know this child wasn't his bio child, but then again, he had a right to know 13 years ago. Enrique didn't make it all about him.....yes, he made a bad decision, but is sorry for that.

Selina said she didn't know if she wanted to have contact with Enrique........the person she should never want contact with again should be her mother............she created the mess to begin with.

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:46 pm PDT

honesty

Quote From: tess73

After 9 years thats no longer an egg and sperm. Honesty and integrity went out the door almost 10 years ago. After that long he is the father. Those lies turned into reality . Now that they are out in the open who did it help? The Dad? The kid? The mom? Stepmom? The sister? All the kids at school now? The biological father? It was a hateful new wife and a dad that decided to be mean... jealousy and bitterness or greed whatever the reason it was not for the good of anyone. But on the flipside the kid may not end up dating a brother or cousin. Eh what do you do? Child support was a mean reason for doing it... although instead of dwelling on it everyonbe needs to get back into regular life. And as for the kid well she would have something else if not this to deal with. Come on now? Doesn't everyone have a story of something they had to go through as a kid that should not have had to?
HONESTY ISN'T  ALWAYS  PRETTY !!!!!   But  it is worth  hearing...  AND  THEY  NEVER  ARE  THE  REALITY !!!!!EVEN  IF  IT  SEEMS  SO...........and  yes  the truth  will  ultimately  help  the child.....
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:46 pm PDT

Florida Statute of little help is just that

Quote From: honesty4u

 Florida past a new law in 2006 # 742.18. It gives a man a right to disestablish paternity if he can prove he is not the father.

  I have been fighting my case for over a year now though because my ex's lawyer says the new law is against the US Constitution because it is not equal rights. That only a man in this law can disestablish but a female cant. I am so frustrated! Against the Constitution??/ What about the slavery act!

 Any way we are about to have our third   YES THIRD   hearing on this issue and weather or not I have a right to even have a say. After Three hearings fighting the Constitutional Issue I am way over extended on legal fees and may have to be representing myself .  Please any words or case law info that may help me get through this would be so greatly appreciated!

 We have not even really started yet I am told by my Lawyer!

 

Not that  I am a lawyer but after reviewing that particular statute it does not seem to be of any actual help anyways. They have a lot of counters against itself  in the satute as as whole and alot for you to do on your part as far as proof of burden. But the main point though as far as that goes is that how can a woman whom natually have a child be a factor. For they have the child and there is no questions of maternity of that. Now this only applies to natural births and c-sections. Now exceptions to this are concerns of baby switching. As far as artificial insemination it still boils down to the fact that the DNA is still the mothers without question and the big question here is the DNA of the male. I do not know the actual stand on invetro though to elaborate on that part. In all fairness this should be included into a statute whether it be this one or another if it already has not been covered somewhere. On the other hand though as far as being equal the mother is the one whom carries the child not the father or named paid child supporter which is usually the male let us face the truth here but some cases involving women wrongly paying child support as well (I have seen this personally). So the woman's maternity is not usually in question because of having the child naturally whereas it could be any sperm to have contributed to the DNA of the child.  I am not trying to imply anything bad or stereotyping of women at all. I am just refering to the cases of possible parental fraud where fidelity is the question. This may be one of the reasons why this statute was based. I do not know that for sure though. Try also looking at the laws/statutes of maternity if you can find them and parental rightsas well as your civil rights just in case you need to represent yourself. I personally think you are going to need to know all of them in your fight. And if your lawyer has not explained them to you yet try and get his explanation as well if at all possible of both sides of the coin objectively especially of the constitutional law and florida statute 742.18. Please read all of it you are going to need to know all of it for yourself. http://www.floridalegalanswers.com/statutes/index.htm is the webite for Florida statutes. I hope you win your case but the real problem with most things  especially concerning the fathers end ( but not limited to ) is how is it going to actually be treated.  As far as case law not much exists as far as your situation of where it has been with a positive outcome. What I have stated above for the woman carrying the child is weak at best though. You will need to combine that with a whole lot more unless something breaks your way.  You have got lots more studying and researching to do.

 

Now as for the show I too feel Enrique was wrong for the way he handled it with Selena. But on the other hand he was emotionally distraught due to the recent news. The feelings of betrayal of the father are very intense. I know all too well on that but never once walked out on our child and will not ever. In turn it is still no excuse to in fact take the action of just walking out on the child. Nothing excuses that in my opinion. Though he does have remorse for tht decision he made and wants to make ammends. As for him to be paying child support on a fraudulent bases I disagree on that.  As far as Maria goes all because you give birth does not make you a mother. Like much as is said about the relevancy of the sperm it takes more to be a father than just sperm donation. Well on the other side of the coin it takes more than just giving birth to be an actual mother in turn. A real mother does have the child's best interests in mind not one that is just using it a ruse for personal gain. And that is exactly what Maria is doing. Playing a very hurtful game not to just Enrique but mainly to Selena her own daughter. Knowing the whole time that he was not the father but would be the one to pay not the real bio father. Unknown if the bio father actually knows he has a child with her but he at some point in her life needs to be held responsible. But Maria due to her deceit still cheats him out of making that informed decision. Thus she is a playing a game with him too. Maria is a very selfish person and one thing that was not covered in the show why is it that Maria really did not have to answer for anything. In fact it was all diverted to Enrique and his wrong doings for the most part. Leaving him to constantly defend himself as that tactic is so widely used to keep someone that is trying to do the right thing in defense mode so the real actual issues never get resolved and the one causing the problem never has to be held accountable for their bad actions. Like in this case Maria. She has a lot of explaining to do to her own daughters Selena and her sister. It is obvious all she is about is getting the child support money otherwise she would of voluntarily of stopped it for Enrique and went after the real bio father. She also needs to pay Enrique back all the money he has paid her plus interest. And pay for counseling for her children now too. As for the legal aspect of this There definitily needs to be some changes in the legal system. Especially when it comes in regards to the way the treat one party unfairly. And let us facr facts here people usually the male (father in most cases though there are some women treated unfairly too and usually they are good mothers too. )  But it is quite a bit more towards the male end. Neither party should be treated unfairly not put orders upon them that are unfair. And I find it funny that when the courts keep the best interests of the child in that there is almost always child support attached unfairly. Is it in the best interest of the child to keep one of the parties in poverty for the sake it is in the best interest of the child. While this in fact creates resentment, feelings of unjusfulness, anger and frustration consistantly. Thus the courts themselves are in fact creating ill will by forcing one in this position while usually the liar profits. The fact is both parents need to be able to live not just the one. And both parties can have JOBS for both parties to support the child financially. And in so doing creating this ill will the liar that is profiting now feels empowered and hense feels untouchable and constantly creates problems for the party trying to do the right thing. The child sees this and thinks that lying to profit for yourself is okay and this in facts teaches the child to do this behavior and that it is acceptable. Now that is not too say this will happen in most cases but does create the breeding ground for it. And this is in the childs best interest HOW? In essence hurting the child's welfare. But anyway that is just my opinion to be fair and honest on both parts for the best emotional interest of the child. And if one or the other is not and it interferes with the well being of the child well then the person(s) causes this needs to suffer the consequences and not profit from it. Maria needs to makes ammends as well as Enrique. Enrique seems sincere about trying to make up for his really big behavioral mishap. In turn though there has been (from my point of view) some programming of Selena by the mother from the way she just talks about what the father did wrong and did not even approach about the mother. And quite obvious this lady (if you can call her that) loves to play these games because she has no consequence to pay by law and will use any means necessary to do it including programming her own daughter so she can keep gaining from it. Hopefully one day Selena will rebound and realize what he mother did was wrong then the real healing can begin if that is possible in this case. And what about the hurt this has cause the sister as well. After all she is a victim of this too. No real mother or father would do this to children at all. But all too often this happens. In conclusion though Maria should be able to be charged with felony fraud and have to pay restitution. She also demeans true womanhood. No true woman I know would do what she has. She is also denying other bio father family members either a grandchild, uncles and aunts as well as any cousins or possible other brothers and sisters a relationship. The real father needs to be founds and given information to make his own informed choice of what is going to do next. And last I fear the new husband with Maria as well. Sounds to me like he is about t be the next victim. Remember if he adopts Selena he then becomes legally responsible for the child. Not that it would be a bad thing for the sake as far as Selena concern but then that (if there is a divorce between them) means he will be paying child support to her. But it is a difficult position to be a stepfather to some one else's child too. Something else I know well. But I hope Selena gets two loving fathers out of all of this. Although the adoption would relieve Enrique of the financial end but he is against the adoption. Why perhaps? Could it be because he fears that he is going to lose any chance of a relationship with Selena if that happens. Which tells me he is not really thinking of the money. If he was he would of just immediately supported that notion.  And Hats off to Mia which is Enriques new wife. She is just looking out for her husband as a good wife does. She probably had an idea of what this would all mean before it was brought up. In her defense as well it was in fact that something that needed to be done. Although I think it could of been all been brought up in a much better way. But In Mia and Enriques defense they probably could not talk to Maria or even convince her to bring it up the right way because of her fear of losing the paycheck. And believe me that is all Maria is concerned about. So how could they bring it up the subject matter in an appropriate way involving the mother. So everyone here that is bashing Mia for her part needs to stepback and put yourself in her shoes with it..  

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:51 pm PDT

what's up with the mia thing?

Quote From: ladypat26

 I agree what the mother did was awful.  And, yes I misspoke when I said Mia gets the money.  I missed the fact that the dad is still having to pay.  So what good did it do for the second wife to even open this can of worms??? Who profits? And, Enrique should resent her for her making him look so weak.  That is exactly how he came across.
i don't get why you continue to place blame on her for anything and everything. if she knew he had to continue to pay then what is her motivation? Why does knowing the truth have to have a motive? I wish Dr. Phil would have asked Selina if she wanted to know....how would she feel living a lie her whole life. That's not right either. I can't speak for her but I do wonder?
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:55 pm PDT

just a thought....

look what enrique has had to deal with. the mother cheated during marriage. it has not been determined with how many men. she put enrique at risk for aids, etc. lied about the daughter and took a bunch on money from him and continues to do so. i don't know about you guys but she didn't look very sorry to me. is that grounds for being emotionally distraught? heck yea. love, money, health = huge life issues! that's a lot o deal with. also, maybe he has his own bio kids to support.
 
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October 30, 2007, 7:56 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: normad

Enrique's wife is responsible for this whole mess.  She should never have mentioned her suspicions.  Enrique is heartless.  It's all about the money.  Didn't he bond with this child after 10 years???  As for Carnell....what kind if relatiionship does he have with his "child".   Another disappointed, hurt child???

These men only thought of their egos and money.  The feelings of a child who had nothing to do with this whole mess never entered their thoughts.

This made me actually laugh.

Enrique's wife wasn't around when Maria decided to have an affair and get pregant by someone else and then lie about it and commit paternity fraud. So no, Mia isn't responsible for this whole mess, Maria is!

As for Carnell, there never would have been a relationship to begin with had his ex not lied to him about paternity!

The feelings of the child who had nothing to do with this nevered entered MARIA'S thought from day one!

 
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October 30, 2007, 7:58 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: marabella

 If this man was a true Daddy he would not have cared that Selena was not his child he would have just kept quiet about the whole thing and just carried on as usual  . So what if she wasen't his he had been her Daddy for ten years she had no idea there was any one else but him as far as she was concerned he was the only one . He let his second wife mess up something very important something that can never be repaired again . if she had only left things alone this child would not be suffering now . I know that the first wife was in the wrong by what she did but the child should not have to suffer for the mistakes of the parents . The father is a victim as much as the child but what he did to Selena is unforgivable . If he is lucky she might just forgive him some day . As for the second wife she needs to be kicked to the curb for starting all of this in the first place . Why would she want to hurt a child of ten is beyond me in the first place . What pleasure did she get out of all this ? Was it all worth a child getting hurt just to get at her husbands first wife ? It makes one wonder . As I understand it he is a MD it's not like he can't afford to pay this child support . If he was any kind of a Daddy he would do it with out having to be told to do so . This child loved him until he broke her heart , can you for one minute put yourself in her shoes when he told her he was not her daddy that day in the park . I bet her little heart just about broke in to .
 Marabella, you are right on, these are my sentiments exactly.  It amazes me how everyone keeps harping on the money and the lying mother, all of which has merit, but the real culprit here is the 2nd wife.  What could she have possibly gained from all this but to hurt a little girl?  What besides this has been gained???
 
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