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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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November 1, 2007, 6:09 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: terrbin

What the mom did was wrong, obviously (and I wish that there was a punishment we could dole out to women who do this that wouldn't hurt their children).  Enrique was deceived, also obvious...  What doesn't seem to be so obvious to many here is that the child DOES belong to Enrique.  What I mean by this is that biology doesn't play a role in the relationship/feeling between parent and child, NOR SHOULD IT.  If I learned today that my child was not mine (whether through deception or a hospital error) it wouldn't change my love for my child, nor my desire to continue providing the best I can financially.  Money IS important in that it sends a message (a strong one) to the child about whether you treasure them or your money more.  I would want my child to know that regardless of whose they were biologically, that I would and will always consider them MINE.  And I'd make sure to reinforce this by providing for them financially!  I wouldn't allow for any question at all to permeate my kid's thoughts about where my loyalties are!

 

Enrique got screwed, but that in no way changes (or rather, shouldn't have changed) the fact that he has been her father!  Where are his feelings for her????  (His daughter is very bright to have heard his sudden and renewed interest in her with skepticism!) How could he have treated someone he raised from infancy, and supposedly loved, that way????  I wouldn't wish that kind of treatment on my worst enemy.  The feelings of abandonment this poor girl must feel, I can't imagine.  She may not realize this now, but I have no doubt that those feelings of abandonment and mistrust will affect her future relationships because they will affect how she feels about herself.  I pray she gets the help she needs as she grows to realize exactly what Dr. Phil said -- that she is worthy of love regardless of what that pseudo-father did to her. 

 

Frankly, I don't know how some people here can justify anything but a continuation of  a fatherly relationship, and that includes a FINANCIAL one.  NOT because this is "fair" to him, but because (more importantly) it is what is "fair" and right for HIS DAUGHTER.  And again, he should want to.  If I were him, I wouldn't care about seeking out the biological father so as to pay for my kid's expenses.  I would want nothing to do with him in fact, so as not to ruin the stability I would hope to continue to provide, (until my child wanted to seek him out, that is.  It's only natural that kids want to know who they biologically came from at some point in their lives).  My kid is mine.  Period.  I WOULDN"T ALLOW ANYTHING TO CHANGE THAT.  THAT"S WHAT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE IS SUPPOSED TO BE, ENRIQUE...

 

Finally, I imagine that several conditions must have existed for Enrique to be so cruel to the daughter he raised for ten years:  1) that he didn't really love her and 2) that he hated his wife so much for deceiving him that he preferred torturing his daughter in this way so as to punish the mother, (rather than seeing his daughter as the gift she is). Bottom line is that I would likely have divorced my wife and FOUGHT to keep my daughter(s)!  As for the poor daughter, I can't believe that now that she has another loving father in her life, Enrique decides that he wants and misses her....  REALLY?!? I  t took you YEARS to realize this, Enrique?!?  What a prince you are... You took the only father she had away from her (you), and now you don't want to give her a decent chance at a life with another man who DOES want to be her father and sees her as the blessing she is.  Something YOU couldn't do.  You've proven yourself completely unworthy of her.  Your "judgement" isn't the only thing that is bad.... YOU are!

This child would not even be in this situation had the mother not frauded Enrique into believing this child was his from day one.

Nothing to do with the man that has offered to adopt her.......the BIO dad should have a say so in this......after all, he was robbed of a relationship with his bio child from day one. Maybe the step father is putting on a show, you don't know. Seriously, he knows this woman he is with is capable of frauding him, why would he want to get in a mess like that, where she may cheat on him down the road and then stick him with paying support on the child. Maybe she has it all planned out!

I feel sorry for Enrique and men like him who are tricked and frauded.

 
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November 1, 2007, 6:12 am PDT

Mortified!!!

Mia – WOW…I don’t know where she gets off.  It’s one thing to be unhappy in a marriage and have an affair but it is another thing to create life and allow deceit and lies to destroy the life of the little person you created.  When you make a decision to lie and cheat, you also have to be prepared to get caught and own up to it should you get caught.  Getting pregnant by another man IS getting caught.  And pinning the financial and emotional responsibility on someone who is NOT the father makes me sick.  If Mia was a real woman, she would have gotten her divorce and when the DNA test was asked for and proved that Enrique was NOT the father she should have NOT allowed him to pay the child support.  In fact, she should have gotten her divorce and fessed up to her lie right then and there.  YOU play YOU pay…she should PAY for the finances of that child and if she needed help then she should try to find the real father and allow him the opportunity to know he has a daughter and let him take financial responsibility…he laid down with Mia so by making that decision he knew there is always a chance something will come of it.  Mia, you make me sick and your smirking on that video and smug “let me get all I can from this guy” attitude is completely disgusting to say the least.  You should be ashamed.  It is YOUR job to protect your child’s life and your lies and deceit did nothing but cause emotional pain and confusion.  My heart goes out to the child.

 

Enrique – I don’t agree with the way you handled yourself in telling Selina the truth, then abandoning her and picking up one child and not the other.  I understand you were hurt and very mad but the child was already going to be hurt and confused enough - you did not need to add to the pain and confusion.  Although her mother couldn’t be the bigger woman, you should have been the bigger man.  I do NOT agree that you should bare the burden of financially supporting her…but emotionally supporting would have been nice.  Her MOTHER should PAY for her child and the sole responsibility should be her cross to bare.

 

Gloria Allred – You are without a doubt the most RIDICULOUS woman I have ever listened too on TV or in life.  Your views are so screwed up.  Where do you get off feeling like it is perfectly right for a man to have to financially support a child that he is duped into thinking was his…have you lost your mind???  It is hard enough for people to support themselves in this insanely high price world we live in and now you are expected to foot the bill for someone else that has NOTHING to do with you biologically which also means you are supporting this lifestyle of the tramp that lied to you and made you believe you had a child.  Try to imagine the feelings of the man that was lead to believe he had a child and now realizes the little person he loved isn’t even his…Lady, you have some serious issues and you need to check yourself.

 

Carnell Smith – CONGRATULATIONS!  And, I am so happy you fought the courts and won!  Though given your circumstance I would have requested a DNA test from the start…I’m glad there is one less person paying for the lies and deceit of another.

 

FINAL THOUGHTGOD BLESS THE CHILDREN…it’s a shame that innocent children are paying the price for adult’s stupidity…Adults should get a hold of themselves and act like adults…the children are the ones who suffer for your mistakes.  Children should be able to be children and not have to be stuck in the middle of lies.
 
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November 1, 2007, 6:30 am PDT

Allred was way off base

I just finished watching Mondays episode and was infuriated with the way Allred behaved on the show.  I am a single mother of a six year old daughter who has never received any child support.  There is absolutely no question of who my daughter's father is.  For Allred to have deflected the injustice of the fraud perpretrated against those men who paid for children who weren't theirs, to say the real problem was men who don't pay child support is ridiculous.  Fathers who don't pay is a huge problem, but it's a different problem.  It's like saying , sure... writing bad checks is a problem, but the real problem is bank robbery.  How can you compare the two.  And it's obvious all people involved in the story of Selina were concerned with her well being, and Enrique didn't do the right thing when he told her.  But imagine the shock he felt.  He probably went slightly crazy for a while and didn't know what he was doing.  To find out this child you've loved as your own biologically belonged to a man you didn't know was involved with your wife.  Enrique is as much of a victim as Selina.  We all make mistakes as parents, usually with everyday things.  How would you react if you found out your child wasn't yours?
 
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November 1, 2007, 6:49 am PDT

You are so right! Thank You

Quote From: lucklocket

I am awfully disappointed by the blogs I have read on this site. Everyone seems to be very concerned about the adults in this situation - too concerned over who did what to who. My concern goes in the other directions - what have these adults done to the children in this case?

 

While I agree that the adults are anguished over the betrayal and the financial aspects of this case, I find three out of four of them to be totally self serving, thoughtless and incompassionate about the impact this situation has on the children.  What Maria did was wrong, but the reaction of her ex-husband was horrid and inexcusable. I was struck with the impression that he simply wasn't man enough to stand up to Maria, so he took it out on the innocent child who had no control over what had happened. I was appalled to hear about how he took her to the park to explain to her that she wasn't his biological daughter and then shut her out of his life. What was he thinking he would accomplish? What a coward!! There couldn't have been a worse way for him to handle this problem. And, his current wife may have acted like a bystander, but she was clearly a catalyst in prompting him to act. Then, Maria sat there on the stage with a smirk on her face as if this was just a shrewd joke. This is no joke - a child has been scarred emotionally because the adults in her life were too selfish and thoughtless to take her feelings into consideration. The only adult in the group who displayed true redeeming value was Chris, thankfully, as he seems to have the interest of the child in his heart.

 

Selina is a beautiful, intelligent and articulate young lady now and she will overcome this in the long run. However, no one can truly conceive of how painful this must have been for her when Enrique took her to the park where she had enjoyed playing, for the sole purpose of crushing her heart and ripping her world apart. I could have and would have had compassion for his plight if he had not taken such lowly measures to lash out at Maria. Essentially, he used Selina as a weapon to hurt Maria - and it was Selina who suffered the brunt of the pain. Maria looked pretty much unscathed to me. But, this hurts Selina's older sister, too. Enrique has put her in the position of being riddled with guilt and confusion. It must weigh heavily on her young heart that she gets to go visit her dad while her precious little sister is cut off.

 

To that end I suggest that a special guardian should be appointed to look out for the best interest of Selina. Go ahead and relieve Enrique of any child support requirement and have the special guardian sue him on behalf of Selina for the emotional anguish he inflicted on her. Don't let Maria have a dime of it and instead set up a trust fund for Selina to finance her college education. Enrique may not be responsible for paying child support for a child who is not his, and Maria certainly isn't entitled to receive any child support from him - but, Selina deserves to be compensated for the heartache that Enrique inflicted on her. And, in the meantime, sue Maria too on Selina's behalf, again placing the funds in a trust for her. If the interest of the child becomes primary in cases like this, maybe adults will be less likely to put themselves first in the future.

You are so right!  Thank You

 

Everyone is pointing fingers as if finding who is to blame, who yells the loudest or who is the most righteous is going to win some prize.

 

While the three of them are acting like children, that poor child is sitting in the middle STILL being scared by this catastrophe. 

 

Being in this situation myself, I say that none of them have the maturity level to figure this out without causing her more pain. 

 

Until they are able to think of the child’s needs first and them second, they should not be allowed to continue this absurdity.

 
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November 1, 2007, 7:09 am PDT

Grandparents trapped and Heartbroken

My Son's girlfriend tried to say that she was pregnant with my Sons baby.  The time frame made it impossible for the baby to be his, but he married her and put his name on Shawna's birth certificate.  When they got divorced he had DNA done on Shawna to get out of paying Child Support for her.  They had a another baby girl and he pays $900 a month for her.  He said that $900 a month was plenty to pay for both .  His lawyer said that he would have to pay double without the DNA.  I was heartbroken that he would do such a thing to Shawna, my Granddaughter.  I Love her with all my heart, she is just as precious to me , DNA doesn't make a flying Hoot to me.  Now, my ex daughter in law will not let me see Shawna.  When I pick up Kylee I have to leave Shawna behind.  She cries, I cry, Kylee cries..  You can't imagine the Heartbreak I feel when Shawna is calling for me "Grandma take me too, PLEASE"  I Love Shawna just as if she were blood.  There's always something special about the first Grandchild...I'll never forgive my Son for doing this to Shawna.....God only knows what her Mother is telling her....So here I sit missing my first born Grandchild.............I hang on to the thought of explaining this unexplainable and dispicable behavior of her Father when she is old enough.....But can the damage be repaired.........How do I tell my 5 year old Granddaughter......Grandma has Loved her from the start and she always be in my Heart....My Son paid thousands of dollars to his Lawyer just so he wouldn't have to pay Child Support for Shawna.......If I had the money I would pay it myself just to have my Shawna in my LIFE....Grandma Shasta  "Forever & Always I will her............
 
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November 1, 2007, 7:26 am PDT

who really is defrauded?

Quote From: aisydaisy

No one should have to be court ordered to pay for a child that isnt theirs.  However, that is just not the point here.  Enrique should NOT be mandated to pay child support.  I may feel differently if the child were to suffer financially.  I dont think this is the case here.

 

I dont see any differences with my situation.  He is my fiancée, soon to be my husband.  Not much difference!  The feelings of pain and frustration are the same. We have just handled it all way better than they have. 

 

  DNA doesnt matter one bit to us.  We love this child.  We should provide financially at times.  Just not court ordered.  The mother of the child understands this since we have continued to be I the childs life. 

 

The adults have to act responsibly here.  Submitting this child to all of this is just deplorable.  These people need to grow up.  This is not about them anymore. 

 Everyone keeps saying 'poor Enrique was defrauded",  what that man did to that little girl is so much worse than being defrauded I cannot even find the words to discribe it.  Selina has no power, no say so in any of it.  His being defrauded is a MINOR event compared. 
This is like some adult hits you in the face and you turn around in your anger and beat the life out of a child that you supposedly  love for your revenge.  Thats about how much sense this makes.

Enrique you were defrauded by your first wife!  What your second wife has done to you is ten times worse!  She started you on this garden path.  You sure know how to pick um Enrique.
 
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November 1, 2007, 7:38 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: suthernthang24

My husband was a victim of Paternity Fraud. He asked her if the child was his while she was still pregnant, because her ex boyfriend told people it was his baby, and she lied and said her ex was just trying to start trouble. Long story short, she did cheat and she lied about the paternity.

Shouldn't men get to decide whether they even want to stay married to someone who cheated on them and whether to raise another man's baby?

Like Carnell said, DNA needs to be mandatory at each and every birth. This way men would KNOW for certain and he would get to make the decision for HIMSELF whether to raise another man's child or not. Either way, he would have a say so and it would be up to him, NOT the women!  I don't think the choice should be made FOR him.

Why should a man have to pay support for another man's child, just because maybe he makes more money than the bio dad, or just because she is afraid he will leave her? He still has a right to know the truth.

Right now, if a man finds out, most times he is still forced to pay support. Go after the bio dad, make the mother pay back every red cent to the man who had been paying support. Yes, sometimes there is a bond there and that's the only father the child has known, but would the man have ever had that bond to begin with had he known his wife cheated and the child wasn't even his??

What's so hard about making DNA testing mandatory at birth, whether you're married or not, and this would put  STOP to Paternity Fraud?!

Yes every man should get to decide  if he wants to stay married to someone who cheats on him  or if he wants to  take on a child that is not  his.  BUT, if due to no fault of his he finds he is 10 years into a situation like this then he has to decide whether he will take the HIGH ROAD for the sake of the child that he has grown to love or if it will be all about  HIM. 
 
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November 1, 2007, 7:38 am PDT

I'm sorry for your loss

Quote From: hastab

My Son's girlfriend tried to say that she was pregnant with my Sons baby.  The time frame made it impossible for the baby to be his, but he married her and put his name on Shawna's birth certificate.  When they got divorced he had DNA done on Shawna to get out of paying Child Support for her.  They had a another baby girl and he pays $900 a month for her.  He said that $900 a month was plenty to pay for both .  His lawyer said that he would have to pay double without the DNA.  I was heartbroken that he would do such a thing to Shawna, my Granddaughter.  I Love her with all my heart, she is just as precious to me , DNA doesn't make a flying Hoot to me.  Now, my ex daughter in law will not let me see Shawna.  When I pick up Kylee I have to leave Shawna behind.  She cries, I cry, Kylee cries..  You can't imagine the Heartbreak I feel when Shawna is calling for me "Grandma take me too, PLEASE"  I Love Shawna just as if she were blood.  There's always something special about the first Grandchild...I'll never forgive my Son for doing this to Shawna.....God only knows what her Mother is telling her....So here I sit missing my first born Grandchild.............I hang on to the thought of explaining this unexplainable and dispicable behavior of her Father when she is old enough.....But can the damage be repaired.........How do I tell my 5 year old Granddaughter......Grandma has Loved her from the start and she always be in my Heart....My Son paid thousands of dollars to his Lawyer just so he wouldn't have to pay Child Support for Shawna.......If I had the money I would pay it myself just to have my Shawna in my LIFE....Grandma Shasta  "Forever & Always I will her............

It is a shame that his ex-wife doesn't put aside her bitterness for the sake of her child.  She is allowing her anger to hurt and emotionally destroy her own child.  What is even more terrible is that she doesn't realize that she did in fact lay down with another man so she should seek financial support from that guy.  Does the other man have any idea about the fact that he has a daughter?  I feel for you especially when you seem to be such a loving person and have a great amount of love for Shawna. 

 

On the flip side, I could also understand your son's position...imagine having to pay $1800 a month...that is a mortgage payment.  $900 a month is pretty darn steep.  It's one thing to pay that money for your own flesh and blood but ultimately he really has to think about his future also.  Without money, he will starve, struggle and will never be able to live his own life too.  It is a shame that everyone's lives are affected by situations such as this but the real father should bare the financial obligations...I sincerly hope in the future you are able to reconnect with Shawna and wil be allowed to resume relationship...I hope your son's ex-wife realizes the harm she is doing.

 
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November 1, 2007, 7:45 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: suthernthang24

This child would not even be in this situation had the mother not frauded Enrique into believing this child was his from day one.

Nothing to do with the man that has offered to adopt her.......the BIO dad should have a say so in this......after all, he was robbed of a relationship with his bio child from day one. Maybe the step father is putting on a show, you don't know. Seriously, he knows this woman he is with is capable of frauding him, why would he want to get in a mess like that, where she may cheat on him down the road and then stick him with paying support on the child. Maybe she has it all planned out!

I feel sorry for Enrique and men like him who are tricked and frauded.

You feel sorry for Enrique!!!!!  That poor excuse of a man has just  beat the everloving you know what out of an innocent childs heart and you feel sorry for him??????? Wait until he finds out for the second time he has married another lying defrauder, then you can feel sorry for him again.
 
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November 1, 2007, 8:17 am PDT

These Are Innocent Precious Children

What is wrong with people today?  These are innocent, precious children....You talk about getting DNA papers as if these beautiful children are AKC DOGS......What, if the bloodline is right then you'll pay top dollar for this child.....And if the bloodline is crossed well then I don't really want to pay for this child.....Wake up people, let your heart lead the way......This baby knows absolutely nothing but Love you have to give to them.......They are an open book, fresh and clean, ready for you to fill their lives with Loving, Happy and Memorable times.......Show them all the Love , Trust and Patience that you have........Damn the DNA.....They are yours from the beginning,  show them this and the Love that will be returned shall be ENDLESS............Get it Together and Show all the Love this Precious Little One Deserves....Shasta...
 
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