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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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November 2, 2007, 4:19 pm PDT

I totally agree

Quote From: mphtxaggie

I completely agree with you here.  The sad part to me is that the fathers feel forced to go to the courts and ask to sign off on their legal rights in order to not be punished for x amount of years in paying child support for a child that is simply not theirs.  It is ludacrous that there are no laws to protect the rights of the children AND the innocent fathers.  If there HAS to be a court order in place, it should be for visitation so that the mother cannot use the child as a pawn.

 

In my case, I know that my ex would have stayed in contact with the daughter he raised as his own.  However, he didn't even make enough money to support himself.  He dropped out of college to marry and support the girl that he "thought" he got pregnant so he was working blue collar jobs.  He also started going back to college, which is extremely costly.  After years of suffering and barely getting by, he should be allowed to move forward with his own life.

 

The ONLY way possible to get out of the child support was to sign over rights b/c the mother would NOT allow us to see the daughter anymore unless we PAID.  The thing that makes me sick is that EVERY time that child came to us, she had clothes that didn't fit her.  The mother spent every penny on herself and going out partying every night.  I literally got sick when I was giving her a bath one night and she was wearing a size 5 panties...she was ACTUALLY a size 8.  The band was cutting into her skin.

 

If we could have had the money to hire a top lawyer and fight for full custody, we would have in a heartbeat.  We showed that child more love and support and attention than her own mother did.  She told me all the time that she wished that I was her mother b/c I paid attention to her.  It broke my heart.

 

People need to understand that it is NOT easy for the father to walk away.  It is absolutely devastating.  My ex became so depressed that he often thought about taking his own life.  His purpose was ripped from him.  He still continues to battle depression.  The mother is the one to blame for everything.  It is a crime and it should NOT pay.

 

That attorney that was on Dr. Phil made me SICK SICK SICK.  I wanted to just slap her face she was making me so mad.  She has no clue what these fathers go through.  Yes, it is sad for the child, but let's get a legal system that says to a mother: YOU CANNOT DUPE INNOCENT MEN INTO PAYING FOR YOUR CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK!!  Wouldn't that stop the problem?  Then, if a man found out he wasn't the father, he would have the choice to be there emotionally and physically for the child.  How can a man do that if the mother is threatening jail time for nonpayment of child support?  It is absolutely insane that women get away with this and there are no laws protecting the innocent father.

 

I am so sorry my posts are so long.  It just makes my blood boil and I could go on and on and on....

  I ive in the state of oregon and i have posted my story on here twice now.  I have read i say half the posting on here and can say about 9 out of ten say we need laws to protect fathers against paternity fraud.

 

Myself i am a victim of paternity fraud!  my ex-wife knows the names of the fathers to but do to the legal system she is protected,  The only state that i have found in my research is OHIO.  They just passed a law there is no time limit for a father to petition for DNA and once its proven that he isntthe father.  They release the fahter of all financial responsibilities.

 

I Think every state should have this law in place!!!!!!

 

currently in the state of Oregon you have two years from date the child was born.

 

THe fact is that Men like myself dont find out until they go thru a divorce and the mother lies an get support. Spousal support/child support and deamed so child care which is added on.  You think that once the children reach 18 its over.  NO NO NO  they continue on to college and your still obligated to pay support until they are out which in most cases is at the age of 23.

 

in today age thye use DNA to get innocent men proven guilty for crimes they didnt commit out of jail.  WHy can't the use DNA to get Father's out of this sentence he didnt commit

 

FIRM believer if the GEnes dont fit you must acquit

 
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November 2, 2007, 5:21 pm PDT

What about the child?

I am bothered that this "father" thought it was OK to give this young girl this devastating information about her life on a whim. He not only destroyed her trust in men which will have an effect on her forever. but this was the dad she knew and that info is too much for a child to take in. I happen to have experience with fathers and abandonment. My 16 year old was abandoned by her biological father at 8 mos and by a step father she trusted at 10 years old. All for their selfish purposes because they thought a different life would make them so happy, What about her happiness? I don't think a man should have to pay for a child that is not his, however disputing paternity and destroying a child's trust are two different things. I feel so sorry for this young lady.
 
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November 2, 2007, 5:23 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: ajanuarygirl22

What would posess Enrique's new wife to interfere in that little girl's life.  Could it be the money that her

new husband was forking over.  i don't condone what the ex-wife did but it was over and done with.  The only one that stood to be devastated was the child.  As a man's new wife, i would have kept my suspicions to myself.  What good could come of it ?  Obviously, none.  The new wife as much as admitted that her husband defers to her so I think she masterminded this to divide his loyalties.  I'd watch out for this wife if i were him--he obviously didn't with the first.  He seems easily led.  I hope only good things for both of his daughters.  Enrique needs to do his own thinking and re-establish a relationship with both of his daughters.

You are so right.  Mia is a troublemaker.
 
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November 2, 2007, 5:27 pm PDT

Often the Fraud Continues

Quote From: pdslms

  I ive in the state of oregon and i have posted my story on here twice now.  I have read i say half the posting on here and can say about 9 out of ten say we need laws to protect fathers against paternity fraud.

 

Myself i am a victim of paternity fraud!  my ex-wife knows the names of the fathers to but do to the legal system she is protected,  The only state that i have found in my research is OHIO.  They just passed a law there is no time limit for a father to petition for DNA and once its proven that he isntthe father.  They release the fahter of all financial responsibilities.

 

I Think every state should have this law in place!!!!!!

 

currently in the state of Oregon you have two years from date the child was born.

 

THe fact is that Men like myself dont find out until they go thru a divorce and the mother lies an get support. Spousal support/child support and deamed so child care which is added on.  You think that once the children reach 18 its over.  NO NO NO  they continue on to college and your still obligated to pay support until they are out which in most cases is at the age of 23.

 

in today age thye use DNA to get innocent men proven guilty for crimes they didnt commit out of jail.  WHy can't the use DNA to get Father's out of this sentence he didnt commit

 

FIRM believer if the GEnes dont fit you must acquit

I have read your story and agree with you 100%. People seem to think this ends at emancipation, for many victims it is years after emancipation. The child in my case is now 21 and has been out of school and still to this day, I have to do continuous damage control. I found out in 1992 while going through my divorce that the child was not mine and he was living with both of his biological parents.

 

After fighting this in court for almost 3 years, I threw the towel in and walked away, I paid as ordered for the next 15 years up until 2006 when I discovered I was actually paying the biological father directly. I filed a motion to end all payments and erase any arrearages, a settlement was reached that all arrearages would be abated and future payments would stop. A stipulation to the agreement was I pay the state of Michigan $1500.00 as reimbursement for welfare the mother had received.

 

During this hearing I became suspicious she had committed welfare fraud and filed a complaint with the Department of Human services. Some time later the Inspector general’s office contacted me and informed me after a criminal investigation was completed verifying my complaint, money was reimbursed back to the state that had been wrongfully paid out. This was the same money I agreed to pay. The inspector general informed the friend of the court twice that this money was already refunded, and I petitioned the courts on two separate occasions to terminate any further garnishments and close the case. The friend of the court denied my request even though medical providers have already reimbursed this money. To this day, I have already paid $1100 of the agreed $1500 and they still pursue to collect this money.

 

Since the stipulated agreement I have began working for myself and they have no means of wage garnishment, two weeks ago I received a Show Cause in the mail for contempt of court, they deem it necessary to place me in jail now for non-payment as I refuse to pay another dime. Very often paternity fraud cases become so egregious people cannot fathom the devastation.

 
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November 2, 2007, 6:23 pm PDT

Victims of Paternity Fraud

There seems to be an issue here with people bashing Mia for telling the truth.  There are some people here who say they prefer to be kept in the dark.  Is this true? Please voice your opinion.  DO YOU PREFER TO BE KEPT IN THE DARK ABOUT A CHILD BEING YOURS OR WOULD YOU PREFER to know the TRUTH???  How do you really feel; is it gut wrenching to be a victim?  do you have better things to do with your life?  are you able to trust women?  what did this lie do to your life?
 
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November 2, 2007, 6:25 pm PDT

And those numbers are?

Quote From: terrbin

You are alone if you believe that neither you nor your husband are human beings who can fall prey to temptation.  We are all imperfect.  Doesn't your God tell you that, too?  Do you think your husband is a perfect being?  How about you?  Or do you think that Christians/Jews/religious people never engage in extramarital affairs?  I believe the numbers speak for themselves...

I would be happy to see the numbers on how many deeply religious people are unfaithful. I'm always interested in facts. No need to be sarcastic.

And...my husband is about as perfect a husband, and father, as I could ever hope for. :)

 

 
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November 2, 2007, 6:42 pm PDT

The Parent Trap goes on...

It is so ridiculous how far we think we've come, when we keep going backwards.  I feel like I should say that I am a woman with these views.

Nowadays, women have so many rights that men can't even fathom.  They have the right to choose: Abstinence, Birth Control, Adoption, Abortion, or they can choose to have the baby. Men have no rights whatsoever.  In cases where they never wanted the child, they are forced to support it.  Of course, this brings up multiple arguments, such as they never should have had sex, etc.  It is all irrelevant to this issue.  Both parties agreed to engage in sexual relations, and only one of them can choose the outcome. It's time for change.  We need a more balanced scale here. 

 

The fact that a woman can lie to a man for years, look into her daughters eyes KNOWING that the man she calls Daddy isn't really her biological father... It's despicable.  It is the epitome of deceitfulness.  That man has absolutely no financial obligation to pay child support for another man's child.   He be able to make the decision to stay in her life, but he shouldn't feel forced to pay her way.  I do feel that he also should be able to get the mother for fraud, because when everything else is washed away, that is all this is.

 

Again, it's way past time for some change: more equality, and consequences for the actions of mothers like Maria who make the rest of us women, including upstanding fathers look bad. 

 
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November 2, 2007, 7:15 pm PDT

the facts of life

Quote From: tylerby9

 You could not have said it any better.I was compelled to come to this message board for that exact reason! We have a blended family.I have raised my step daughters for 12 years.Regardless if I was divorced tomorrow.These are my daughters,along w/my bio,they are my FAMILY.My love for them is never changing.I agree w/the financial part BUT truthfully I would help support these children to the day I die.Money is Nothing when it comes to love.

 My heart was crushed for this beautiful child.I felt so much anger for what was done to her.My personal assumption,which could be right or wrong,but I personally BELIEVE new wife had alot to do w/that as well.Remember she quoted how he follows what she SAYS & DEPENDS on that.SO where was she to lead him in the RIGHT direction.To heal his relationship w/Selina & make her feel loved NO MATTER what a piece of paper says.Saddening & shameful....

I love all three of my girls!!!  im only the biological father of one of them.  The crime here is maria is just like my ex-wife.  My ex knows the fathers of the two other girls.  Yet cause of her anger Towards me, it doesnt matter.  If you have read my story you will understand what im going thru.  Its all about the money!!!!! Her lies have destroyed any relationship i have had with them.  My oldest started questioning why she didn't look like and of my family when she was 8 years old.  When the truth came out she was 13 and now she knows.  My ex wife blames me for having the DNA done.  YEt it was her lieing and cheating on me that put us in this situation.  Now im paying her for a crime i didnt commit.  i wonder if this happens to your son's or your brother's.  How would you feel watching the mother use the money for her own needs instead of the kids.  The final chapter was, she yet again had an affair and she is married to this guy now.  I left, he moved in two weeks later.  He is a machinist and makes over $20 an hour, yet they went from state housing to section 8 to buying their own house in Two years.  Not once did she tell the state housing that he was living there with her!!!  This is in the State of oregon, not only did she commit paternity fraud, she commit fraud to the state housing.  On top of that she told welfare she needs child care. that was added to my support.  She made a deal with her neighbor and they split the childcare money.  When i went to court i could prove this cause we had a mutual friend at the time and she was the one actually going to the house and letting the kids in after school and waited an hour till my ex-wife got home.  The neighor wasn't even around. So because of her lies my oldest is mad and my youngest well she carries a picture of her real dad in her wallet.  Now you tell me what is fair?  Oh and on her myspace page she say's i dont know who my real dad is, i know he is out there and hopefully ill meet him someday.  All these years beating my head  against the wall, jumping thru hoops trying me keep my relationship with them, How do you think this make me feel?
 
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November 2, 2007, 7:23 pm PDT

I totally agree with you

Quote From: lunaambrosia

It is so ridiculous how far we think we've come, when we keep going backwards.  I feel like I should say that I am a woman with these views.

Nowadays, women have so many rights that men can't even fathom.  They have the right to choose: Abstinence, Birth Control, Adoption, Abortion, or they can choose to have the baby. Men have no rights whatsoever.  In cases where they never wanted the child, they are forced to support it.  Of course, this brings up multiple arguments, such as they never should have had sex, etc.  It is all irrelevant to this issue.  Both parties agreed to engage in sexual relations, and only one of them can choose the outcome. It's time for change.  We need a more balanced scale here. 

 

The fact that a woman can lie to a man for years, look into her daughters eyes KNOWING that the man she calls Daddy isn't really her biological father... It's despicable.  It is the epitome of deceitfulness.  That man has absolutely no financial obligation to pay child support for another man's child.   He be able to make the decision to stay in her life, but he shouldn't feel forced to pay her way.  I do feel that he also should be able to get the mother for fraud, because when everything else is washed away, that is all this is.

 

Again, it's way past time for some change: more equality, and consequences for the actions of mothers like Maria who make the rest of us women, including upstanding fathers look bad. 

I see alot of the going back and forth abut this show.  What we all need to do is email DR. PHIL and have him have another show about this and contact other show like his to have the same thing open this up to the all the states and networks so that it heard all over and that this is a state to state epidemic and just isolated to a few fathers.  look most of us non bio dads dont have the money to fight this to be honest were dragged down to nothingness financially.  Were losing our liscences and were just trying to have a life.  something need to be done.  I have tried to research my state to find help but right now there is no one in my state to do this.
 
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November 2, 2007, 7:34 pm PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: cissie88

Go back and read ALL my posts on this. I NEVER said that I agree with Maria or what she did to Enrique wasn't terrible. What she did and how she acted on the show was despicable. I still feel that what Enrique did in telling Selina like he did and abandoning her was and still is WRONG. She was a CHILD and he was supposed to be an ADULT. He handled it all wrong. As for all the remorse he has shown well it's just too little and too late. Funny how YOU as a mother choose to ignore Selina's feelings and keep on railing about how unfair it is to Enrique. Lady, life ain't fair. But it's how you choose to handle  the unfairness you have been dealt that shows your true character. We all know how Enrique handled it, don't we?

As for Carnell HE SHOULD have asked for a parternity test as soon as that baby was born. So he had sex with the mother, that didn't make him the father now did it? Why should he have been able to take her word for it? I surely wouldn't take the word of an EX.  Point being, PEOPLE DO LIE.

And I also said Enrique could have handled it better but he is remorseful and NO it isn't too late. You don't know how he felt when he found out that kind of news. 

 Read my posts, I haven't ignored Selina's feelings. I do feel bad for the child, but as you said "life isn't fair".

Selina will have to deal with what happened and either make ammends with him, or not.

And you're right about how you choose to handle a situation you're dealt with that shows your true character.........we see how the child is handling it..........she isn't sure she wants anything to do with Enrique.....what does that show?  Could it be that she is HURT and is acting the way she is?? Could it be that her mother COACHED everything that came out of her mouth? No one seems to blame her for her actions.....She is 13 years old now...so what? She is old enough to forgive and is old enough to be responsible for her actions, and put her hurt aside, just like everyone says Enrique should have.

You're right, people lie, and people also make bad decisions in life. Again, Enrique should NEVER have been put in the position he's in and wouldn't have had Maria been honest.  

 
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