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Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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November 3, 2007, 7:21 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: suthernthang24

And I also said Enrique could have handled it better but he is remorseful and NO it isn't too late. You don't know how he felt when he found out that kind of news. 

 Read my posts, I haven't ignored Selina's feelings. I do feel bad for the child, but as you said "life isn't fair".

Selina will have to deal with what happened and either make ammends with him, or not.

And you're right about how you choose to handle a situation you're dealt with that shows your true character.........we see how the child is handling it..........she isn't sure she wants anything to do with Enrique.....what does that show?  Could it be that she is HURT and is acting the way she is?? Could it be that her mother COACHED everything that came out of her mouth? No one seems to blame her for her actions.....She is 13 years old now...so what? She is old enough to forgive and is old enough to be responsible for her actions, and put her hurt aside, just like everyone says Enrique should have.

You're right, people lie, and people also make bad decisions in life. Again, Enrique should NEVER have been put in the position he's in and wouldn't have had Maria been honest.  

Selina is a maturing child who had her the ONLY person she knew as a father tell her that he's not.  This causes YEARS of damage. She was ONLY 9 or 10 when this happened. And yes if ONLY MARIA had been truthful it wouldn't have happened. I UNDERSTAND AND I GET THAT. It doesn't matter HOW Enrique FELT, he shouldn't have told her like he did. Maria may be coaching her, she's probably told her lies, but SHE was the one who has been there at all times  for Selina.  For you and anyone else to try and put the blame on Selina for the way she feels now is petty, vindictive and just plain mean. At 13 she's still a child and is acting like one.
 
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November 3, 2007, 7:23 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: suthernthang24

Who cares? Most people here know what I mean. Are you going to make this board about you pointing out that I write FRAUDED in my posts instead of DEFRAUDED......

I'm sure most people on here really don't care. 

But let me make one thing clear one more time just in case...................

Maria DEFRAUDED Enrique.

Obiously I did.
 
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November 3, 2007, 8:17 am PDT

paternity

My husband's middle son was conceived outside of his parent's marriage.  My husband was aware from the beginning that he may not be his son's biological father and indeed, paternity testing confirmed that he was not.  He and his former wife had another child together five years later, making their 4th child.  She later decided that she no longer wanted to be married to her husband.  The biological father has paid court-ordered child support since the middle son was a baby.  After my husband's first wife divorced him, he was able to have all of his kids half of the time.  She got child support from 2 fathers until she got pregnant out of wedlock about 5 years after their divorce.  So now she gets 3 CS checks.  She is a nurse(educated) with 5 children by 3 different men.  Two of the children are older now, but their life has been affected by thier mother's choice's.  Her uterus is a future investment package.  For some women, unless they are held accountable, they created turmoil and chaos in their children's lives and everyone else around them.  My husband's ex-wife favorite is " I don't care what anyone thinks".  While I can agree with that on some level, you might ought to care what your children think.......
 
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November 3, 2007, 9:22 am PDT

WHOA.

I gotta tell you that thsi world is imploding.  Imagine a world where a woman can say that a man is the father of her baby knowing full well she slept with other men while committed to that relationship and never tells the man she supposedly loves that the child that he's fallen in love with and who assumes with no queston that ths is his child......

Imagine a world where this man finds out that he's not the father and is forced to make child support payments because HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT HE WAS THE FATHER OR NOT.

Imagine a world where a man can't question the paterity of a child that was brought into this world without being accused that he's trying to ditch taking care of his child.

Imagine a world where the woman can say that she's 100% sure of the father's paternity when she's slept with other men.

The man in this show treated this the wrong way, granted, when the world has been privy to how he unleashed this knowledge to his "daugher"..... but the real culprit is the wife.   Who is not exactly a woman.

How she can sit there and smirk and bob her head after the chaos she's caused is frankly disgusting.
And there should be high enforcement of new laws that force women to more astringent punishments in this particular case.  If you have a child with man that is anyone other than the person you're in a relationship with and you pass this child off as his progeny when you know the child isn't, then that should be seen as a malicious cuckolding and there should be some major punitive damages. 

The child is going to go through enough trauma and shouldn't have to have insult to injury knowing that not just isn't the father not their father,but the fact that mom lied about it to them and the male guardian.


Imagine a world where we actually do the right thing.


 
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November 3, 2007, 9:24 am PDT

10/29 Parent Trap

Quote From: cissie88

When my son was  a junior in highschool his former gilfriend tried to pull that on him.....this was 1992, and I told him

then "If you are responsible we'll stand by you and help. But first we're gonna find out if you are." It's simple LOGIC to question the motives of a bitter and angry ex. I don't just blindly believe what I'm told.

Enriue's situation is different.

Sometimes its not that easy to see through to someone's motives, and you're left with trusting them to tell the truth.  They're not all exes, and they're not all bitter.

 

Hooray for you to have had the forethought to suggest that your son question his accuser, but my comment was directed at you specifically for calling Carnell "stupid" for not getting DNA testing --- do you have any idea how long ago his child was born?  Carnell started his organization in 2001, so I'm assuming he did that AFTER he was victimized by the fraud, which he discovered when his child was roughly 11 (I'm using rough recollection from the show)??  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I'm thinking.

 

DNA wasn't really an option for people until very recent years - so you may may want to stop and think before calling someone "stupid."  He was victimized - ALL men who are told this lie are victimized to some degree - and you and your son don't have a corner on the market just because you think you're so clever to ask for a test.

 

 

 
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November 3, 2007, 9:57 am PDT

Thank You.

Quote From: ladypat26

I have read your posts and I think you are right on the money. You're a little kinder in your opinion of Mia, than I but that is okay with me.  I agree on your summation of her.  She has lots of friends on this message board I see so no headway is going to made with these people, but then they are also the ones who have to live around her.  I have finally come up with one sentence that I think sums it all up and that is; Maria made the bomb, but Mia made sure it went off.
Thanks for your comment and observation. I've learned long ago that an over reaction on someone else's part typically indicates an issue with him or her and not the person he or she is responding to.

I clearly gave Mia a lot of credit for her loyalty to her husband and desire to seek the truth which I think did need to come out, but Mia's story simply kept changing on both the show and online here as to what motivated her to push Enrique to explore this issue.

Mia went from having "said nothing" to saying she "suggested" Enrique check this out. She went from I "never tell him what to do" to "he usually does what I tell him as he trusts my judgment." She went from "this is fraud and Enrique shouldn't have to pay for a child not his" to "I only pushed this for Selina's benefit and she as a right to know."

No one can fault her for wanting to protect her husband from fraud, but let's not pretend she's a saint either which is what her defenders are doing here. The worse part now is that after this bomb went off she wants to sit back and take no part with lines like "I'm out of it" and "It's all up to Enrique." Come on now, she knows she has considerable influence over her husband and has admitted using that to get the ball rolling here on this disaster. Now IS NOT the time to withdraw and do NOTHING after being a part of this tragedy. So much for looking out for Selina. I thought this was "all for her benefit"?

Well, I'm sure I'll get attacked again, so again I'll say that Maria is totally at fault for this disaster, but both Enrique's horrific conduct towards Selina, and Mia's manipulation of things, even if in defense of her husband, ALL contributed to the enormous hurt Selina is unnecessarily experiencing as well as her sister who has to deal with this mess as well.

Go ahead Mia loyalists, fire away.
 
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November 3, 2007, 10:44 am PDT

ITS ABOUT THE MONEY

Quote From: amazing1pa

This is a subject that falls extremely close to home.  My fiancee is going through something a bit similar to this.  He has 1 child that he knows is his for sure the oldest.  The ages of the children are 18, 16, 15,15.  There was a question about 3 of the other children. The court system in PA allowed him to have genetic testing on only 2 of the children (the twins-15).  He was proven NOT to be the father of these 2 children.-with whom he never had a relationship with. 

We are currently going through the legal system to have a paternity test done on the 16 yr old.  With whom he had a limited relationship with at the convenience of his ex.  When she needed a babysitter he was good enough.  He has not been a vital part of this child's life.

He had previously requested through the domestic relations office a DNA test for her and they have denied this request several times in the past.  Now the mother of the child took my fiancee for child support for the 18 yr old, and the 16 yr old and the twins.  Being that the DNA test proved he did not father the twins he does not have to pay support for them. 

The reason she just took him for support now is when the oldest turned 18 he moved out of our home and into hers.

We have no problem at all paying support for the 18 year old.  However we both have a issue paying support for a child with whom no relationship has been established, and may not even be your biological child.   There was never any paternity documents signed at birth, however, the mother did put his name on the birth certificate.

The Domestic Relations office in PA is so messed up.  I am not sure how it is in other states.  But if the mother of the child makes a comment to you saying "how are you going to like paying me for a kid that isn't even yours" that bothers us.  I do not think that domestics should make anyone pay if you are told, and you have doubts that a child is not yours without the proper DNA testing. 

This is not fair to any fathers out there who are experiencing the same or similar situations that we are going through.  DNA testing has evolved so much in the past years, if it clears so called killers on death row why, I ask why can it not clear up paternity issues for so many fathers who are caught up in this whole paternity fraud situation?

 

if it clears so called killers on death row why, I ask why can it not clear up paternity issues for so many fathers who are caught up in this whole paternity fraud situation?

 

 

ITS ABOUT THE MONEY, NOT ONLY DO MOTHERS PROFIT, BUT EACH AND EVERY STATE RECEIVES HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR FOR THE COLLECTION OF CHILD SUPPORT

 

THIS IS WELFARE REFORM THROUGH THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION SIMPLY GOOGLE OUT WELFARE REFORM TITLE4-D, THESE ARE HUGE ALLOTTMENTS OF MONIES DISTRIBUTED FROM BLOCK GRANTS TO HELP THE STATES OFFSET THE COST OF COLLECTING CHILD SUPPORT DIRECTLY CONNECTED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES.

 

DO NOT EVER EXPECT SHOWS LIKE DR PHIL OR OPRAH OR ANY DAILY TALK SHOW TO EXPOSE THESE ISSUES, THEY ARE IN DENIAL OF REALITY. THE DISRUPTION AND SEPERATION OF FAMILYS IS BEING USED TO OFFSET EACH STATES DEFICIT. IN MOST, PATERNITY FRAUD CASES IF THE NON-BIOLOGICAL FATHER IS NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE THE STATE WILL NEVER COLLECT A DIME OF SUPPORT.

 

THAT IS WHY EACH STATE FAILS S DESIRE TO CORRECT SUCH AN INJUSTICE AS PATERNITY FRAUD, IT WOULD NOT BE IN THE STATES FINANCIAL BEST INTEREST (BOTTOM-LINE)

 

 
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November 3, 2007, 11:51 am PDT

Paternity Laws Need Changing!

 If Ms. AllGreEd is truly concerned about the "best interests" of children, she should NOT condone and demand continuation of payment for the fraud perpetuated against betrayed husbands by deceitful women like Maria.   The title of the book Ms. AllGreEd was promoting, 'Fight Back and Win," doesn't jive with her stance on one of the biggest miscarriages of justice - the financial and emotional devastation caused by Paternity Fraud.
 
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November 3, 2007, 1:01 pm PDT

Hey there lighthouse guy....

Quote From: lighthouseguy

Thanks for your comment and observation. I've learned long ago that an over reaction on someone else's part typically indicates an issue with him or her and not the person he or she is responding to.

I clearly gave Mia a lot of credit for her loyalty to her husband and desire to seek the truth which I think did need to come out, but Mia's story simply kept changing on both the show and online here as to what motivated her to push Enrique to explore this issue.

Mia went from having "said nothing" to saying she "suggested" Enrique check this out. She went from I "never tell him what to do" to "he usually does what I tell him as he trusts my judgment." She went from "this is fraud and Enrique shouldn't have to pay for a child not his" to "I only pushed this for Selina's benefit and she as a right to know."

No one can fault her for wanting to protect her husband from fraud, but let's not pretend she's a saint either which is what her defenders are doing here. The worse part now is that after this bomb went off she wants to sit back and take no part with lines like "I'm out of it" and "It's all up to Enrique." Come on now, she knows she has considerable influence over her husband and has admitted using that to get the ball rolling here on this disaster. Now IS NOT the time to withdraw and do NOTHING after being a part of this tragedy. So much for looking out for Selina. I thought this was "all for her benefit"?

Well, I'm sure I'll get attacked again, so again I'll say that Maria is totally at fault for this disaster, but both Enrique's horrific conduct towards Selina, and Mia's manipulation of things, even if in defense of her husband, ALL contributed to the enormous hurt Selina is unnecessarily experiencing as well as her sister who has to deal with this mess as well.

Go ahead Mia loyalists, fire away.
Just a word of advise about the internet.....

I can say that I'm SUPERMAN ON THE INTERNET.  IT DOESN'T MAKE ME SO.  YOU SAY YOU TALKED TO MIA, BUT ANYONE CAN SAY THAT THEY ARE HER....IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.  WE HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS BECAUSE IT MAY BE SOMEONE POSING AS HER.
 
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November 3, 2007, 1:16 pm PDT

Why the focus on Mia?

Quote From: lighthouseguy

Thanks for your comment and observation. I've learned long ago that an over reaction on someone else's part typically indicates an issue with him or her and not the person he or she is responding to.

I clearly gave Mia a lot of credit for her loyalty to her husband and desire to seek the truth which I think did need to come out, but Mia's story simply kept changing on both the show and online here as to what motivated her to push Enrique to explore this issue.

Mia went from having "said nothing" to saying she "suggested" Enrique check this out. She went from I "never tell him what to do" to "he usually does what I tell him as he trusts my judgment." She went from "this is fraud and Enrique shouldn't have to pay for a child not his" to "I only pushed this for Selina's benefit and she as a right to know."

No one can fault her for wanting to protect her husband from fraud, but let's not pretend she's a saint either which is what her defenders are doing here. The worse part now is that after this bomb went off she wants to sit back and take no part with lines like "I'm out of it" and "It's all up to Enrique." Come on now, she knows she has considerable influence over her husband and has admitted using that to get the ball rolling here on this disaster. Now IS NOT the time to withdraw and do NOTHING after being a part of this tragedy. So much for looking out for Selina. I thought this was "all for her benefit"?

Well, I'm sure I'll get attacked again, so again I'll say that Maria is totally at fault for this disaster, but both Enrique's horrific conduct towards Selina, and Mia's manipulation of things, even if in defense of her husband, ALL contributed to the enormous hurt Selina is unnecessarily experiencing as well as her sister who has to deal with this mess as well.

Go ahead Mia loyalists, fire away.
We can only speculate on what motivates Mia to bring this to her husband's attention.  What the real issue is here that we need to change the laws.  This lieing, cheating person who tries to pass as a women (Maria) victimized too many people - the primary ones being Enrique and Selina.  Enrique would have continued to see the child - without a court order.  Maria has made her motives clear MONEY.  Maria has proven that she lied and does not care that another must pay the price.  Maria has proven that she coached those poor children....she is an unfit mother.  Who cares what motivates Mia?  I don't know anyone who is a perfect angel; do any of you?   No one considered that someone else could have brought it up.....who knows taht it would have stayed a SECRET FOREVER? So WHAT if Mia suggested DNA.  Enrique did this of his own accord.  The only person here forcing anyone to do anything is MARIA - SHE FORCED HER VICTIM TO TAKE ON A LIFELONG RESPONSIBLITY.  WHETHER OR NOT ENRIQUE EVER SEE THE CHILD AGAIN - HE HAS TO PAY.  ALSO, HE AND THE CHILD WILL BE LEFT WITH THE EMOTIONAL BAGGAGE - AS WELL AS MIA!
 
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